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On the other hand, negligence law suits have been won when students were injured/killed because the DZ was using out-dated gear that was not up to the accepted industry standard... At this point a DZ that took this same stand as to why they did not use AAD's on student gear (change of emergency procedures, possible double deployments, cost, maintanence, added education/complexity for the rigger), would be burned by the industry. (and I have heard those arguments concerning AAD's in the past) So, by pattern, I guess they may be required on student gear in another 10 years. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I heard the same argument being used against having AAD's and RSL's. Not saying its invalid, but for me I think it will simply be incorporated into the new way of training/thinking. I don't think anyone will advocate changing the hard deck to 300', but then I don't hear anyone advocating not pulling because you have an AAD... But we've seen their use when folks are knocked out, loose track of time, or even simply given up... I see this as a similar thing... it will be a savior of those who planned to cutaway and pull a reserve with plenty of altitude, but either lost track or had complications getting it done. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

*like Vector's traveling demo skyhook triple canopy rig when first introduced. OK guys, you've had enough to say in the wrong forum and threads... and I know its been talked about before, but there's new folks, new opinions and more time in service for the skyhood, and more MARD's in service/development... So lets have it, what do you think?? (I'll duck now...) JW PS - yes I know... always some option left off Polls... wish the options were editable... sorry. Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I guess when its all said and done, I would agree with this list. The only concern with #4 is one tandem candidate that I knew that happened to have a cutaway (his first) the on the last load of the weekend, the day before going to the TI course and a rig that happened to need a repack the next week... And for his first "emergency" he was much more interested in talking about the feeling of the release and reserve flight... never did say much about what was wrong with his main... So, maybe I would add one requirement that is a bit hard to quantify (much less enforce)... proven good mature judgement. Just sayin'... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Hey, I did a modified static line progression myself... (thinking about being put out on the rope again just for ol' time sake... its been 22 years since my FJC) Have fun, be safe, keep asking questions!! Blue Skies, JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Graphics been added (sorry ). GREAT questions... Keep asking. (Keeps us old foggies from getting foggy ) JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

DThames GREAT Question. PLEASE read the cautions about advice given here. If you want to take my advice, you MUST discuss it with your instructor first. Having said that, this is a very good thing to prepare for. I've faced that situation a couple times, and once was with only a few more jumps than you. You can S turn, sit in deep brakes and make flat turns. As to not turning away from your target, that's generally good advice. You can hold (not advance on the field) while making S turns toward the target as shown (see attached). If you follow the arrows, it always turns toward the target, but angles so as to keep my distance until I'm low enough to make my final approach. Depending on the length of the field, you may need to be close to the trees. Just don't get youself far enough from the edge that you catch on the last row of trees... As to the landing direction, I would take a crosswind landing in order to get a longer field dimension... Especially in the light winds you described. In heavier winds you will also find two complications... 1. The down wind treeline (where we're making our S turns) may cause an updraft as the wind hits the trees and surges up to get over them. You may need to cross into the field a bit before you are able to decend. 2. There will be a nasty curl coming from the up-wind tree line that can be very rough on canopies. How bad, and how far into the field it extends will be dependent on how fast the wind is blowing. Now, as to practicing for these things. S turns, flying in heavy brakes and flat turns are GREAT skills that you should learn. BUT, get a canopy coach, make sure you are NOT near anyone, start learning up high and NOT in pattern (this is mostly a problem for S turns). I do not recommend ever flying downwind of an obsticle like a treeline with high winds... you don't want that kind of "experience". You are welcome to take this posting and its graphic to discuss with your instructor. But don't just "learn it on DiZzy.COM". Blue Skies... keep asking questions. JW Edited to add graphic.... sorry Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

An AAD does not open your reserve************ I'm sure that you don't mean to, but with respect, playing with words (cut a closing loop better!) seems to occupy the time of many on this forum and does nothing to promote safety. Would you prefer that no one use an AAD? Sparky I am 100% FOR the use of AAD's. HOWEVER, I am also 100% in favor of knowledgable rig owners too. No BS. MOST no-pull accidents could be saved if an AAD was properly installed, maintained, turned on and calibrated for any landing zone altitude differential. BUT, they have their functional limitations and are not able to do anything more than they are designed to do... They do NOT open the canopy, launch the pilot 'chute or even open the container. If all goes well, they cut the closing loop. After that, all the same variables come into play as if you had successfully pulled the ripcord (more or less). Know your gear! (and get, install, learn, use an AAD.) JW JW - You are jumping to conclusions. I know that it only cuts the closing loop. When someone says that it opens their reserve, MOST people understand what is said and what is happening. Lighten up Francis!!!! Dano, Sorry... should have added the note that by your comments, it is obvious that you know how they work... unfortunately too many people believe that an AAD opens the parachute (not understanding how or its limitations). My attempt at a point (and I believe it was Sparky's as well) is that phrasing things accurately is important in educating (and reminding) newer jumpers. We have entirely too many folks that don't understand their gear and limitations. No offense intended.

An AAD does not open your reserve************ I'm sure that you don't mean to, but with respect, playing with words (cut a closing loop better!) seems to occupy the time of many on this forum and does nothing to promote safety. Would you prefer that no one use an AAD? Sparky I am 100% FOR the use of AAD's. HOWEVER, I am also 100% in favor of knowledgable rig owners too. No BS. MOST no-pull accidents could be saved if an AAD was properly installed, maintained, turned on and calibrated for any landing zone altitude differential. BUT, they have their functional limitations and are not able to do anything more than they are designed to do... They do NOT open the canopy, launch the pilot 'chute or even open the container. If all goes well, they cut the closing loop. After that, all the same variables come into play as if you had successfully pulled the ripcord (more or less). Know your gear! (and get, install, learn, use an AAD.) JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

(not sure if you were replying to me, or in general...) I was not concerned about my planned altitudes once out (exit at 3,500'), but the aerobatics being performed on the way up in an open cock-pit aircraft where an extraction was a real possibility. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I have intentionally left mine off despite being a STRONG proponent of them. The ONLY times that come to mind were when I was going for a demo in an open cockpit aircraft with a pilot I knew had a habit of entertaining himself on the way to altitude if he thought we had enough time... NO more concerning thing than being in the middle of a wing-over at 1000' wondering if we had been high enough for it to arm or decending fast/far enough for it to fire. Old pilot, couldn't be told better. My choice was to turn it off when it was his turn to fly me... though I avoided him when I could. Fortunatley he retired shortly after that event and never had a jumper extracted. It was a mix of politics, safety and personal choice. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Thanks for the link... that's cool/weird/scary... Especially when you combine that with the lesson they teach pilots... The object (other aircraft) that is NOT moving in your field of view IS the object that is on a collision course. And yet, this graphic tool shows that it is the stationary object that you are most likely to drop (visually). JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I've recently come across several individuals who have been told not to use the silicone (or vinal) hard link covers. (reference both main and reserves). This is interesting as they were normal/standard on mains before soft links and seem to still be common with reserves shipped with hard links. The only thing I recall hearing bad about them was that they should be tacked to ensure they don't get worked up the lines (though some insist this only need be done when they're not tight on the link, I prefer 100% tack). Is there something I'm missing on the "why" of hard link covers being bad?? (Several reason's they are good - protect the slider grommet from hard impact on the links and keep link/line orientation to prevent side-load and/or single line loading) JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I don't dispute that point, when they are new... But I don't remember ever being advised to change hard links with every line set, nor do I recall of any Rapide Links failing when properly torqued and maintained. (Soft links loose their strength over time and have failed when left in service too long.) Not saying I wouldn't use soft links (I do) and not saying hard links are fool proof (we've proven otherwise). Each have their advantages and limits. Which ever you choose, know your gear. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Why, why, WHY would you even ask? Would you overload an airplane? An elevator? A boat? A bungee cord? A zip line? A climbing rope? No? Then why would you even consider over loading your last chance at survival while skydiving???? This perplexes me. Your own statement should answer your questions for you. Over loading a reserve is sport death. I personally know someone who died when he blew a reserve to shreds due to overloading. Manufacturers limits are there for a reason. Follow them - or face the consequences. Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing.. the max exit weight it that what is listed in large print, there is a do not exceed weight aswell and that is far above what i weigh. From checking pics vs PDs websites it seems they rate their max exit weight the same as their lowest recommended weight or student weight although the do not exceed on the right side of their chart is far higher. If i was even near the do no exceed weight i would not think to jump it. Its similar to this pic from classifieds where the max exit weight is 134 but then under is another advanced training weight that is higher. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/jump.cgi?ID=120981&view=Image;d=1 Legal limits do not necessarily represent smart/safe limits. It only shows that during testing, they were able to deploy without exploding. Being able to land at that wing loading, with your skill level, in a unexpected area, having opened low, and maybe you've got the use of both arms, or maybe not (check the recent incident forum), maybe your concious or maybe not... You asked for opinion, many folks with much more experience and with experience with this type of canopy have given you the benefit of their experience. At this point, you can either heed their advice and get a larger canopy or decide that "you're better than the average bear." In which case, I wish you luck... we've heard more than one show that attitude before... and morned more than one of them. Were it me, I would go larger/more conservative for my reserve. But then again... maybe you're just that lucky... Just my $.02 JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Jerry B - VERY Nice!! CONGRATS. So, when is it going to be in a rig at my local dealer?? JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I've worked with several sellers on this. Sometimes its agreeable to the seller to use the inspecting rigger as an escrow holder (I've done this myself). Sometimes a referal to your rigger through the seller's rigger and/or the manufacturer. As suggested, we all know someone who knows them. I'm discussing a purchase right now where the seller is requesting that the pre-purchase inspection be at the manufacturer... that too is a more comfortable option to many buyers/sellers as they are seen as a reputable, independent inspector and escrow. Do NOT accept a purchase where the seller has access to the funds until you've got a favorable inspection, unless you either have a reason to trust the seller, have a way to recall the funds (eBay/Paypal) or are willing to take what you get. I've only had to cancle two sales (one as the buyer and one as the seller) and not been burned, but the possibility is certainly there if you don't watch yourself. v/r JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Instructors are trained to expect (and occasionally see) students that don't remember anything, and do just what they shouldn't. Many DZ's and instructors are trying to both keep their planes running as much as possible (for practical and financial reasons) and also want to keep your interest now that you finally got the nerve up to get this far. Weather holds are very disappointing to new jumpers. That having been said, I also have seen tandem operations that feel this is an acceptable level of training for passengers on a regular basis. For myself, I don't care for the joy-ride passenger take on Tandem. I prefer to approach each tandem customer as a student. They should be trained as a first jump student and that includes ground training, altimeter use, canopy flight (to include landing) and a post jump debrief with the instructor. This is not how to turn the most tandems in a day, but I believe it is the way to turn the most tandems into returning students of our sport. (As you might imagine, I am not in favor of tandem-mills.) Was this DZ doing you a favor, or just trying to turn out as many no mater the cost... not sure. I would follow the recommendation to hang out there and see how their operations function on a more normal day. Just my $.02 JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Yes, thankyou, I almost did that on my very first jump! Out of all the things that were going on, it was the colour of the canopy that completely threw me. My first reserve ride (hard/no pull main), all proceeded as I was trained until I had finished checking the reserve (square Fury)... I reached a stage of... "OK, now what?" For some reason, I could not make sense of those red things on the back of the risers... I had no idea that the toggles would ever be anything but yellow. After a few seconds I clued in and got back in the game. To this day, I like to show my rigging customers what their canopy, lines, risers and steering toggles look like so they have a clue when/if they need to use it. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

In the states a jumper can (and I have) been approached by an FAA inspector upon landing and asked for my PDC which must be on the rig. The DZ was fighting with other airport users for right to use the place, and inspections were not unusual. (side note - they never found us in violation, good thing too... the fines can be expensive and CAN be levied against the jumper, not just the pilot.) JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

FWIW - On at least one occasion during a ground deployment prior to repack, the velcro released and I experienced the cable-stop effect. If I had not known that could happen, and if I were in the air, it could have been very disconcerting until I realized that the canopy had actually deployed. (I would likely have pulled the pin through the housing sideways if necessary... ) Just something to know. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Found bobbin thread missing for ~8" on an inside seam. This is why my inspections are 100% inside/out. I go with the idea that there is a mistake in the rig. If I can't find it, the owner gets to use it for another 180 days, then I get to try again. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Unfortunately (while very rare) this goes for new rigs just delivered from the factory. Haven't found a total waiting to happen from a factory, but have found errors. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

1. glad you're here to talk about it...

Biplane - Chopped Main in front - Spectre 230 Reserve in back - Fury 220 Exit weight: 254 No RSL Main released without complications. Down-wind hazards, slow decent rate and wind speed and low forward air speed were factors in choosing to chop. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...