fcajump

Did... several times. On the other hand, many have jumped before us and written about it... so why do you still jump?? JW ........................................................................ Most people jump and say that they enjoy jumping, so their experienkes are worth repeating. If they say their experinke was painful, there is no point to me repeating their mistakes. Ok. Wendy tells me its fun... sounds like it might be worth repeating.

That's our Wendy!! Got the same goal, but a chicken-sh!t skydiver tests the water before diving in... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Not as young as I once was, not as old as I'm gonna be... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Not the actual test results, but a very good summary is here... http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/dualsq.pdf Thanks PD. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I suggest the riggers jump their own pack in order to move on to the next round... Have fun y'all... I'm known all 'round as the slowest rigger in town... and I'm OK with that... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Actually, more concerned about the lower (second) rings that will (might) be stressed away from the shoulder attach point and in a "peel" direction to its normal loading/stitching. (On my rig, the second ring set are ~4" lower than the upper rings.) It is for this concern that I am thinking about using dual mini rings on my upper set for this. Did... several times. On the other hand, many have jumped before us and written about it... so why do you still jump?? JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

This sport has inherent risks, many of which we can't (or choose not to) completely eliminate. eg - If I rent my own jump plane and jump in an area where there are no other jumpers in the air at the same time, I virtually eliminate the possibility of a canopy collision... But I choose not to eliminate the risk to this extent. The sport also has risks that on can minimize. eg - do not fly a highly loaded canopy and don't swoop, you may have minimized (though not eliminated) the "hook turn into terrain" risk. Some lessen their risk exposure to voluntary risks with experience... learning their gear practicing EPs for many different experiences reading about other's misfortunes and determining how to avoid or deal with the situation if they are ever faced with it knowing when to say 'no' to (too) windy/gusty days knowing how to fly your slot and not funnel the 17 way (hi Randy R. learning how to deal with other canopies in close proximity (learn CReW) Some choose to use their experience to increase their risk exposure: learning to swoop a little farther big ways learning "CReW" intentional cutaways exiting at 2k water jumps night jumps (day jumps?) I agree with those that argue that the type of risks (canopy or otherwise) change over time. I also agree that beyond those inherent risks in the sport, one's risk exposure is more directly related to attitude than just jump numbers. Cocky is cocky, studious and cautious is less so. For most of us, I think our overall risk level stays about the same... learning how to minimize one risk, we use the new experiences to increase our exposure to risk in new ways (hopefully in order to learn to minimize the risk with the new activity). But, I could be wrong... that's the risk I take posting here JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Was thinking of setting up to do this some time. (obviously related to the question about the base ring options) How did you deploy (backwards first, then shake out the front facing front mounted?) Any concern about over stressing the base-ring stitching (since you were using two sets pulling in peel rather than sheer on the lower set of rings)? Of course, you're a light weight, so you would not be stressing near as much as my... higher loading... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I am looking for responses from those who have actually experienced a personal downplane (normal rig, two out). I have been in a two out (biplane) and found myself sitting in the harness basically the same way as I would with a single canopy. What I am asking is what orientation did you find yourself during the downplane? I assume that since both canopies are attached at virtually the same shoulder location, and during a "stable" downplane, you would be more or less head-up, suspended between the two canopies (like in the middle of a horizontal rope). Descending somewhat feet/butt first. Was this the case, or is there something I'm not seeing here? I hope never to find myself in one, but curious what your experience was... Thanks, JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

You weren't on your way to the Mexico boarder with a bunch of friends in a old beat up sedan... trying to talk them out of dodging the draft while you were going through ROTC were you ... Looking for "Proof"...? (Before there was "Fandango"... there was "Proof") http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wlqDzkIDPU JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

The only thing good that came out of that was an almost overnight world-wide acceptance of Cypres AAD's by more experienced jumpers. Unfortunately sometimes it takes "a name" to prove that "it can happen to someone as good (better) than me..." In one very bad day he (inadvertently) probably saved more lives than all the analysis we've done here since. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

+1 The biggest problem I have with it now is that if I wanted to land last, free of all traffic (other than Tandems/AFFers) all I had to do was pull at the ridiculously high altitude of 4000' (solo/last). Of course I got talked to about why I was pulling that high... was there a problem??? Now half the load is pulling above 5-6 for various reasons... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I'm no expert, but I am guessing that the lower sizes are 23b (as the majic number for the 23b was 254-lbs). I then speculate either 23c (which introduced peak force) or 23d for the larger ones. I don't put too much into that as I believe the family of canopies are tested as one. In this case the larger grouping would have been tested seporately (since they have different stats/limits. Again, we are dancing around the limits of my knowledge of the particulars of TSO testing. Yea... I saw that too... Personally, I think Jump Shack (and Butler) would benefit from having a web designer/content manager, who knows the parachutes, but is NOT their engineer. There's good information there, and they are two of the companies that seem to apply good engineering to their product, but engineers are not always good communicators to the general public. And then there is the fact that any web site can be added too so much that the site needs to be "reengineered". I think that's something PD started a while back that some other's have adopted. Personally, I do think that, just because it proved in testing that a 85sqr/ft canopy would not fail with my fat a$$ under it at terminal, does NOT mean that semi-concious, with on arm broken and a loading of 3:1 is a good idea... Especially when I had 10 jumps. Personally, while I don't critisize the mfg for this, I think it is a bad idea to get custom patterned reserves... The standard solid color has great benefit to the jumper, including during demo jumps... The first custom color reserve I ever saw was very similar to her main... we could see the cut-away canopy floating down, and the right number of canopies open for the load, but no idea who might be in need of assistance. With demos, I often have pilots that circle the flag jumper and we have formations doing a race-track behind the jumper. With the solid main, you've alerted all participating pilots that there may be a cutaway main out of position, drifting toward them. It also alerts the ground crew that this jump is not proceeding normally... (main to go find, reserve performance will not be the same as their intended main, etc...) Yea... this is one of the points Nancy is having to convince me is worth it... I had planned to put a smaller (volume) Optimum in my next container... but as I am coming from a Fury w/ Dacron... almost anything is smaller. Thanks for all the great feedback. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Got hold of Mike SE who knows this rig. I mentioned this thread, and got this response: Nice folks there at SE!

Good point. Being comfortable and having to deal with issues down low are different things. Only one of mine qualifies to your criteria. Jump: 32 Coach 2-way exit 12,000, pull 3000 (hard pull) Reserve full open ~1200* 825 Demo exit 3500, pull 3000 (PIT) Reserve full open 2000 1203 Demo exit:3200, main mostly open 2200 Spinner - chop 2000, reserve full open 1600 *Actual reserve alt unknown on this jump. I beat the Sentinal AAD set for 1500, but it fired too. My slowness on this jump raised my "comfort altitude" considerably for many years. Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

For several years I visited an airshow up north when their regular jumper would take a weekend off. Jump was from a Tiger Moth! But during the briefing, the pilot would remind me that he stats his jump run at 3k. Jump run was at 65kts (or so) and remember that most of the lower wing is fabric, only a small part is reenforced to walk on, and don't forget to close the door on the way off as he does an aerobatic routine after the jump and doesn't want it flopping around. Oh, and you might not want to hang out on the wing too long as he puts it in a 500ft/min decent as soon as you start your climb out... Then there were the fireworks shot off during the anthem... so when the music gets to "rockets red glare"... don't be over there... Geeze I miss that show. Was a lot of fun.

Maybe thats where the canopy is so small that the bulk of the volume is the lines and seams. Someone else pointed out that the "Peak Force" was the same for most of the sizes. Based on the two different max load figures shown here: http://www.jumpshack.com/angelfire.htm, I assume that this is because during TSO testing only one of the model "family" is actually tested. (I understand it is normal to test only one canopy within a model line.) The larger models, having been tested to a higher exit weight, would therefore have recorded a different demonstrated peak force. Again, from recollection, this figure has to be recorded on newer TSO testing, in an attempt to keep us from attaching a canopy to a harness such that the canopy could over stress the harness. Started with C23(c) I think... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Thanks for the feedback. Can't find the prices online, but Nancy sent this along (attached). JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Ok... It wasn’t in the budget this year, but Nancy @ Jump Shack is using one of the hardest sells I’ve come across in a long time… she’s using “LOGIC”*. So, I've read the gear reviews on DiZzy, now I want any opinions from folks that have either packed or flown an Angelfire Reserve. I’ve not had one come through the loft nor have I had the opportunity (need?) to fly one. So, tell me about it. JW *Disclaimer: for anyone that has not worked with Nancy, let me clarify... She’s been quick to reply to a long list of inquiries since mid-summer about their gear to this skeptic. Other than discussing the reasons they designed and build their gear the way they have, she has NOT pushed ANYTHING. She’s presented options and left the decision to me. Other than that, she’s a sweetie... exactly the type of sales rep I most want to work with… Of course… using this “logic” thing really is a low blow Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Well I should think not, with only 1 jump and 3 years in the sport . Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Sounds like its ready for intentional cutaways... Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Then how would you ever get to the DZ? Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Actually, it could be done with a specific unawareness.... IF as you put the d-bag in the container, you lay it down on the bridle, then pull the bridle up the the side, it could be under a riser or line group. If it goes unnoticed, and the container closed, it would flip the bag through during deployment. That's why after putting the d-bag in the container, you need to check the bridle routing FROM where it exits the D-bag to the velcro (or pin for those without velcro) and on its way from there. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

But for D's it's pack open by 2K not exit @ 2K.... And with the approval of the S&TA, one could get out @ 2K. Remember when Jay did his 600 jump event? He went to 2.1 on each jump just to be sure he was USPA compliant for pack opening. This is where I expect the Pull-Out'ers to speak up

[replyDon't have anything to prove, and the extra 5 seconds isn't that tempting. And while I do think people should be comfortable with exiting quickly, being stable immediately and going directly to their main. I also respect those who give themselves the comfort room to deal with issues that might arise. One should also remember the limitations and behaviour of the gear they're using. (why I gave the freedom to choose any gear for the low pass) JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...