OnYourBack

"instead of bantering back and forth over who is to blame and how horrible the coverage is, share some amazing survival story, or maybe even some sad, tear-jerking fatality. " We do share about almost every incident that gets publicly talked about in the Incident Forum. We do it so we can learn what exactly happened and to not make the same mistake. The purpose of this thread was to discuss how this coverage may be detrimental to the community.

"Where there is error, truth" This is what many of the posters here are trying to do. Shayna and Rick's story to the world is not truth. I would bet most on here have some empathy for her for we have seen this sort of thing happen to other friends or ourselves. Discussing incidents and finding the proper place to put blame is valuable to all of us. It helps prevent further incidents. Shayna's injuries are not a result of a one in a million gear malfunction. They are the result of, among other things, improper reaction to a common low speed malfunction. But that is not what she is telling the world is it?

$$$$$$$ I shall be there $$$$$$$

I would agree when your talking about things like Sigma's response to out of sequence deployment. But no system can prevent some of the things we do to ourselves like side spins or collapses due to turbulence.

"I estimate that there have been approximately 9,000,000 tandem jumps made on Racer Tandems over the past 15 years, and there has been one fatality." This is not really proof to me that they are the safest hands down. What are the stats of Vector/Sigma and Strong. I would think they are used quite a bit more often than Racer. And like the Racer fatality, we shouldn't really count instructor error as a system design failure.

"I climb. I don't see reviews on 30 litre day bags that people wear for 15 min stints - sitting down - competing for which is the most comfortable, and I don't see climbing harnesses that you're expected to hang in for MAYBE 2 min going on about how comfortable they are." I have also never heard a climber bitching about the wrinkles in his harness.

"The Commission also found that no methods of killing which have come to their notice, other than clubbing or shooting, achieve acceptable standards of humaneness." killing humanely? strange combination of words.

I understand the fulfillment of taking a student who was too afraid to do it in the beginning and working with them and how that can be helpful to the sport. You don't really explain why the "passenger" aspect of tandem is "devastating" though. Could you elaborate on why?

"As I understand it, only certain qualified individuals can work on parachutes. That person is expected to make choices regarding the safety of that parachute." On a reserve or container your correct. However a main canopy doesn't fall into the same category. Both you and Jumphog are making a huge deal about this canopy but if she could put 200 more jumps on it after realizing the problem without serious injury, then its obviously not that bad.

You keep acting like this canopy is some kind of death trap. What exactly did it do when she flared it? I mean, after she first diagnosed the problem and had it relined she said she put another almost 200 jumps in on it. The guy should have accurately described the life of the canopy but the only time it seriously injured her was when she made a mistake in turbulance.

Does the fact that a canopy collapsed once in turbulence behind a hanger and the fact that it doesn't flare very good make it unairworthy and extremely dangerous?

"even with all the straps tightened down as much as they'll go (the students even help me tighten them more than I could myself)" I used to do this in the beginning but was told and I now believe that over tightening straps makes it difficult or even impossible for the student to arch properly even if they want to. I wouldn't say leave them loose but I do like a little play between me and the student. Also if I need to shift them under me I use their hips as opposed to under the arms. Just my opinion.

I wonder how many guys will be screwing pumpkins tonight after seeing this.

"Maybe I just attract this type?" If its happened that many times perhaps you choose this type. Like women who are attracted to the bad boy and then wonder why they always get dumped on. I see this in my little sister over and over.

Might want to see a doctor. When I was a kid I used to get them if I spent to much time in the sun. They would make me take some sort of steroid to get rid of them. I feel for you, its miserable.

"Same here. I get so annoyed when someone whacks the back of my rig when they're done doing a pin check. WTF reason is there to do that." This was all I had to go on sorry, you never mentioned your cypress until jumping on me for assuming. As far as your cypress goes, unless they are standing up and kicking you in the back where your unit is stored between the padding of the main and reserve, I'ld be willing to bet it will be fine. "Besides, I jump at a wonderful DZ where people on the plane won't touch your gear unless you ask them too." Sounds like a nice place.

As a former packer, I had quite a few regulars who just couldn't do it. For whatever reason, that I generally didn't question because I liked their money, they sucked at it. They felt it was safer for me to do it for them. It may have been since they had maybe fifty pack jobs and two reserve rides and I had thousands with only one (even though to many onlookers I would "cram that shit in there like there is no tomorrow").

IMO if your closing loop is not tight enough to keep your pin in place during a pat on your rig, it probably won't stay in place throughout the jump. I mean, how hard are people hitting your rig anyway? Has anyone ever seen a pin come out due to a pat on the rig. I challenge you to try it. Stow your pin in a properly tight loop, close the flap and hit it a few times right on top of the pin. I bet it doesn't move much, if at all.

Is it this? She looks good.

"The real question is: Why do you drive so slow???" Uh, because its the law. Seriously though, its funny how if you have a thread about drugs, helmets or AAD's, the safety nazis come out of the wood work. How come there isn't anyone preaching about the dangers of going faster than the posted limits and how your endangering everyone else on the road by your selfish speeding.

"But you Americans have trouble with those silent letters so the teachers and powers that be have given up and are allowing the language to pauperize to the lowest common denominator." Get off your horse. Its a word and it means the same thing whichever way you spell it.

I agree with all of PLFKing's post and the 1 in 3 odds aren't that bad. I wonder if more would skydive if the odds were that good?

I'm Vector and Sigma because that is what the DZ owns. I haven't had the opportunity to jump Strong but would if thats what the DZ had. I'm curious, is there anyone who believes that Strong is the way to go? I may have missed one but all of the posts seem fairly skewed against Strong rigs. Are they bad or just not quite as good? What are some specific things bad about them other than the maintenance of bags just mentioned?