voodew1 0
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They have to go on credentials, be it either an endorsement from experienced jumpers, or a rating.
Chuck makes a reference to the early hasty days of the BMI and the desire not to cheapen it again. There was a time when that rating didn't mean much ( at least around here, not sure it does yet) in fact it proved for some comical bonfire conversation and even more hilarious flying if you were lucky enough to have some select BMIs grace your flight plan.
Now I know I give BMIs a hard time but officially some are some of my very best friends, and they can take it. Eddy P is a phenomenally generous guy very well rated , well respected. Greg F flew with us for years even back in the pirate instructor days and most of can't touch his flying. And I pick on Chuck but the truth is I respect him he is generous with his resources and booze. He is a very fun guy and skilled flyer.
But I like to pick on the BM brand of I for every incident, event or negative encounter in regards to BMIs not just locally but the ones we hear about from all over the world. I can count more than a few and know there are those that we never hear about. IMO the BMIs have PR issues that the other brands don't have. And hopefully in time this will change. Things have been quiet for now but for all the of the rated frauds and hacks that are still lurking we will keep our ears and our cameras opened, on and focused just for you.
I was not trying to be "brand specific" here. I simply used BM and the BMI rating as it is what I personally do. I own a Vampire too, but don't train students on it. Ultimately, I just think it's smartest to be the most-qualified instructor you can be. If that means that Tony Suits is going to create their own instructor program, then that's fantastic. I was sitting right there next to Jeff and Flora as they were producing their first flight manual. I gave them all my BM stuff as reference so that they would not have to start from ground zero. It's not rocket science; the fundamentals of flying a wingsuit, no matter which wingsuit, are all the same. The only thing Jeff and Flora had to expound upon was the different way the suit is rigged and the different wing cutaway systems on their suits.
Some might read it that I was bagging on Jeff and his ability; that's not the case. He's a great wingsuit pilot/cameraman/instructor. He just needs some ratings. That's nothing I don't say to his face all the time, so if any of you construe that as "shit talking" then I don't care.
At this point, I am not sure another brand-specific wingsuit instructor rating is needed. Still, if Tony Uragallo and Jeff Nebelkopf want to create one I will gladly help them out with their POI. That's how I roll down here in Z-hills. There is lots and lots of wingsuit love here.
Chuck
Some might read it that I was bagging on Jeff and his ability; that's not the case. He's a great wingsuit pilot/cameraman/instructor. He just needs some ratings. That's nothing I don't say to his face all the time, so if any of you construe that as "shit talking" then I don't care.
At this point, I am not sure another brand-specific wingsuit instructor rating is needed. Still, if Tony Uragallo and Jeff Nebelkopf want to create one I will gladly help them out with their POI. That's how I roll down here in Z-hills. There is lots and lots of wingsuit love here.
Chuck
jakee 1,254
QuoteYou believe that?
No not really, it was just a joke!
I was lucky to get my FFC at the same time some experienced birds were getting BMI ratings from Jari so I've seen that its taken seriously.
Having said that, if you want to be serious how much would it take for jeff or tony to set up their own rating. Plagiarise the BMI/PFI course (not that I would condone that), add in tony suit specific EPs and bingo! Like you said, whether or not it would be a 'real' rating only depends on if people accept it as one.
Anyway, 30 flocks in a week and a bit? I got to get me to Z-Hills one of these days!
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
I didn't take it as you were bagging on Jeff or anybody else to include Matt. And I know you hold instructorship in high regard and want the most in its quality.
I was simply pointing out that in some regions there is a belief that the Shenanigans of a few BMIs didn't jive with a "positive" promotion of the whole wingsuit experience, which really is one of their primary tasks. Some could be regarded less than safe as advertised. This tarnished the badge. Its a PR thing, it can be turned around, but time will tell.
I was simply pointing out that in some regions there is a belief that the Shenanigans of a few BMIs didn't jive with a "positive" promotion of the whole wingsuit experience, which really is one of their primary tasks. Some could be regarded less than safe as advertised. This tarnished the badge. Its a PR thing, it can be turned around, but time will tell.
normiss 622
Jeff has first dibs on the WSI program. I have some rudimentary drawings and notes he made TWO YEARS AGO regarding this very topic - including the drawing on my fridge in the bus!. WSI is something he has stated he wants to create within the USPA ratings system. The brand specific training and ratings don't mean too much given how they were "cheapened" over the last few years as you all have mentioned in this thread. Some of them seem to have simply been given to a few without ANY intruction/teaching skills/flying skills at all. Given all that Jeff has done for all of us, WSI 1 should be his...IF like Chuck says he puts the effort into getting some ratings.
COME ON JEFF!!!! The people you need to help you accomplish this are all around you this time of year!
COME ON JEFF!!!! The people you need to help you accomplish this are all around you this time of year!
mccordia 73
QuoteThe brand specific training and ratings don't mean too much given how they were "cheapened" over the last few years as you all have mentioned in this thread.
Dont you mean the opposite?
training and ratings have improved dramaticly the last few years. Especialy when it comes to safety, and the lessons learnt in the field..
If any, its the people with ratings from before that time that are 'cheapening' the current system...
The people currently training new PFI/BMI's are doing top notch work as far as Ive witnissed...
The programs that are currently here (not looking at the specific suit rigging) already ARE suitable for wingsuiting as a whole..and its mostly the people complaining who are looking at it way to brand-specific...
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?
normiss 622
Maybe my experience IS with the old-school types then...and I must add that the PFI's that helped me get started were very thorough. BUT - I have personally witnessed the "I" rating given away to some I thought almost dangerous in the sky. I don't see that the brand specific portions are infact very different from each other much like Chuck said - just the specifics regarding the suit you're jumping.
I personally believe and support ratings systems completely...which is part of why I don't understand the need for brand specific ratings....unless we were to approach it like tandem ratings...one USPA rating along with brand specific rating to address the uniqueness of the brands.
I personally believe and support ratings systems completely...which is part of why I don't understand the need for brand specific ratings....unless we were to approach it like tandem ratings...one USPA rating along with brand specific rating to address the uniqueness of the brands.
Quote
Zach I am so glad you have taken over where I left off - keep up the good fight, but know that Chuck is not the enemy -- now Ed on the other hand-- but not Chuck
Sincerely 'and I quote from the past'
That fucker Jason from Texas
only a few will get that one
This thread should be marked as repost, or in Bonfire. It's all shit thats been worn out before. If skydivers are going to instruct other skydivers to fly wingsuits, have a plan, teach them safely and throughly. If you do have a rating or not, and something happens, your probably going to get sued by the relatives anyway, it's the US.
And Jason, as far as me being the enemy. It's early, how about a big ol' cup of shut the fuck up?
Be safe
Ed
www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com
And Jason, as far as me being the enemy. It's early, how about a big ol' cup of shut the fuck up?
Be safe
Ed
Be safe
Ed
Jason is just seeing if you'll bite. He would normaly be teasing Chuck at this point but wants Chuck to feel at ease when he approaches Jason about some PFI coaching for his V-1 the next time they hook up at the peanut.
Jason will need some few extra bucks to pay for his Silestone counter which will be his ticket to boogie freedom. 
TomAiello 25
All (just replying to the last post),
I've moved the discussion of socialist bicycles to Speakers' Corner, where it belongs. Let's keep that stuff out of here.
Thanks!
I've moved the discussion of socialist bicycles to Speakers' Corner, where it belongs. Let's keep that stuff out of here.
Thanks!
We are still shit upon -- but we 'may' be better protected in case of some sort of accident.
Some of us made our own teaching curriculum which involves that non required air coaching on the first jump -- but we just do it so it costs the student more
Lot of good that did you they just went some place else and paid someone else for the rating -- you know I am right
Thats what I find wrong --- why hate the guy thats trying to promote what we all love -- just because he doesn't have some letters -- how about make sure he is being complete in his training and offering some sort of 'deal' when he has the money to take the courses needed or to help a brotha out and give him the course and tell him/her to pay me when you can ------ I bet you get money wicked fuckin quick that way
Zach I am so glad you have taken over where I left off - keep up the good fight, but know that Chuck is not the enemy -- now Ed on the other hand
Sincerely 'and I quote from the past'
That fucker Jason from Texas
only a few will get that one
The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid
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