ACTUAL: Jump numbers before flying a Camera

[bomb420 1]

Although I agree with USPA's 200 jumps number before flying a camera, I know a ton of us that have started early on in our jump career. Hell I started at 104 and somehow survived. Although, I did not do my first paid tandem until jump 354. What are others experiences? Looking back do you think that recommendation should be made higher? What about multi-tiered or sign off systems.

Or do we think our customers don't know any different and young-ins will undercut us?

(BTW I rarely do paid work anymore and just do it for the fun of it. )

HYPOXIC

[The111 0]

I had about 450 skydives and 200 wingsuit jumps. My first camera jump was in a wingsuit. I chased a cloud and landed off and sprained an ankle.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[dragon2 0]

I had about 350 jumps before I started jumping camera (video only), filmed about 80 CRW jumps before filming my first freefall jump, was under canopy at 1800 ft

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Peej 0]

My first camera jump was at around 260 jumps and i believe it was perfectly safe. It was a freefly jump with friends.

After talking to a TI and Cam pair who are close friends, I started following tandems out at about 300 and some change. Started filming 4 way around the same time.

I think i landed my tandem camera slot at around 450 jumps, although i'd gave to check my logbook for the exact number.

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[diablopilot 2]

321st jump with a video camera mounted on a FTP. I did a two way with another camera flyer.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[mrwrong 0]

I had 279 jumps before I strapped on the camera helmet (vid only) and I'm still very careful what I'm going into. So far I have only done cam jumps in small groups 2 and 3 ways (myself included).

I did a ton of research here on DZ.com and from expreienced cam jumpers wherever I met them (sending my thanx to you all). So when I bougt my gear I had a very good idea what to buy.
I ended up with a HC5, .3 and .45 cookie lenses, Tonfly Diablo helmet complete with an 'almost fit' cambox

I'm not planning on doing paid stuff until I have a solid level of experience. I just don't consider myself safe and good enough yet.

This season I will focus on shooting 4-way FS

“The sum of intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing.” - George Bernard Shaw
He who dies with the most toys, wins.....
dudeist skydiver # 19515
Buy quality and cry once!

[velocityphoto 0]

I had about 300 or so and was scared shitless. Now looking back at it ,i was in situations that were insane. The worst was back sliding and opening with the tandem . Now how stupid is that ! And i had an experienced tandem master / camera man telling me to do it.
I must have been out of my mind .

A friend will bail you out of jail , a REAL friend will be sitting next to you in the cell slapping your hand saying "DUDE THAT WAS AWSUM " ................

[Trevor 0]

I had 187 jumps when I did my first camera jump on a stilletto 107. The footage was not great; I would have been better off learning to fly better first. During the landing I was paying attention to how cool the landing was going to look on video and I spiraled too low and sprained my ankle...and I had accidentally turned the video off after opening and didn't even get my crash on video.

Flying video has vastly improved my enjoyment of the sport, but I wish I had waited a little longer and gotten a little better.

Bill Von's story in the FAQ is dead-on. Camera adds a distraction even when you have thousands of jumps and are flying on a world record.

I began flying my 88 sq ft canopy when I had just under 600 jumps. That didn't work out too well for my ankles either.

This sport attracts thrill seekers who want to do it all and want to do it now. Thanks to all the people that had the guts to forcefully mentor me at time (Marcus Antebi, Mike Igo, Tony Thacker), I survived those times.

Young jumpers should first seek to fly really well while other jumpers are filming. Once you are looking really good in someone else's video, then start thinking about strapping it on yourself.

One should not downsize to get better swoops; one should downsize after getting awesome swoops on the current canopy.

You can ignore this advice and probably survive, but you are greatly increasing the risk of crutches or ashes in your future.

[jimmytavino 16]

well the fact is ....
I made my first video jump when i had 1,735 skydives...... ( Not a misprint) !!!
i was Not scared, but was concerned that i didn't HURT my new camcorder..
Mine was a Sony Hi-8 model and it ran me OVER 1,200 bucks!!!!! ( it was 1994 )

i had gotten kind of bored with jumping, and adding the camcorder in many ways rejuvenated me....

stills came later, first some small and cheap point and shoot film cameras,,,, then a canon rebel...(film)
then a sony DSC -V1...( 2003) now a Nikon D70s.....

why didn't i start earlier?????

well,,, they hadn't yet invented a camcorder that was reasonable in size......

jmy

[pilotdave 0]

I had about 700. Shoulda waited till 750.

One thing I'll say is that nothing has hurt my flying abilities as much as camera flying. I'm slowly getting better at shooting videos, but my RW skills have seriously suffered. Starting camera flying early has got to be a perfect way to miss those skills altogether. I'm talking outside video (RW).

My first unpaid tandem video was about my 100th camera jump (following the rules in the Sigma manual of 500 RW jumps and 100 camera jumps, etc).

It got scary after maybe 150 video-only jumps when I added the still camera. That changes everything. I'm unable to just bring the still camera along for the ride and hope to get some good pictures. It takes concentration. The video camera is bad enough... trying to minimize head movement and not getting hands in the video. Makes it hard to check altitude. But with the still camera, I have to concentrate on the jump, on the lighting, and on actually snapping pictures. I mostly stopped jumping my still camera for 4-way videos just because it took too much to concentrate on being in the right spot AND getting any pictures at the same time. Too scary.

Dave

[dragon2 0]

LOL I had the same problem at first with getting stills, I just resorted to click-click-click or rather bite-bite-bite, hell it's a digital still Unfortunately my first jump when I jumped a tongue switch (my bite switches broke all the time, they got a lot of use ahem) was the WT06 950 jumpers demo jump, I had a lot to do and reverted back to near continuous shooting, but damn if I didn't BITE instead of pushed, got just 2 pics in that jump

Now that I have a blowswitch shooting pics has to be more deliberate, and I do get decent FS4/tandem/whatever pics, but the biting or pushing was easier I could keep that up for ever

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Sirob 0]

I started with 106 jumps filming 4-way team in order to be ready for international competition (that happened 50 jumps later). I knew that I will do the same (filming the same 4-way) in next years and that was the only option for the team and me. Motivation and dedication was on the high level and there was constant pressure every single jump for improvement (no video bust on exit, all grips in the frame, flying on the close distance, etc...). It was hard work but it pays off very quickly and my skill was good enough to compete without any problem for me or the team.

As stated here many times before, important is what you are doing, who is with you and, for me the most important factor, your motivation and dedication. Numbers are just numbers ...

[DSE 3]

I admit, I started with a camera on me early, jump 125 or so. However...I set out from jump one to *only* jump camera. I went to Perris at jump 30 and spent a lot of tunnel time with Ed Dickenson, and kept going back to either Perris or Eloy with my DZO to work on various things. McGowan was a big help too, as were Jay Stokes and Norman Kent. Norman really spent a lot of time with constructive criticism; he's a terrific instructor if you ever have the opportunity to take a class with him.
My observation is many people fresh off student status start freeflying as soon as possible, whereas my DZO, knowing what I wanted to do, made me stay on my belly and he pushed me hard. My first camera jump was with him. My second through 15th camera jumps were with Jay Stokes shooting tandem evaluations. Even with that training, looking back I realize how little I knew, and thankfully didn't have any problems in the early jumps.
Either way, I owe a lot of thanks (and beer) to a few of people that pushed hard with me in the first couple hundred jumps. Still learning. Folks like Laszlo, SDCTLC, Trunk....always willing to offer advice and constructive criticism.

[Laszloimage 0]

Jump #184 was my 1st camera jump.
Some dude from TX talked me into it, he said that just try it it's fun. I didn't like it, I never wore a full face helmet before, now top of that I had a HI-8 camcorder mounted on it...
I started to get excited about camera flying around 300 jumps.
-Laszlo-

[genfreefly 0]

good excuse to whip out the old log books.
my first video jump was in july 97 at 348 jumps. was with a sidewinder/pc7 set up. just did like two jumps w/ it (it was not mine), didn't think much of it, there weren't so many camera's, so there wasn't so much info/awareness on camera safety stuff.

got my own PC10 (for a modest $2500!) in march 98 at jump # 629. had it on a bonehead mindwarp w/ an L bracket, had some gaffer's tape closing some of the snag points.
found it safe from then till now w/ a similiar set up along the way. only jumped stills a handfull of times.

be safe
max

[Icon134 0]

Quote

Jump #184 was my 1st camera jump.

I too did my first camera jump on jump #184. It was a 4-way RW jump and on that particular jump I forgot my visual altimiter. So one might say I wasn't ready... before I jumped a camera I did speak to people that knew my skill level and knowledge.

I'm continuously learning and hope that I'm continuing to get better (even though I don't have the people to learn from that DSE has) I prefer to jump with a camera on my head then without one (i.e. I enjoy cameraflying... and I'm primarily interested in RW...)

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[jtval 0]

Camera with a full face?
No wonder you weren't excited.



I started jumping Vid and APS Film elph around my 350th jump.
Wasn't any good until two weeks ago at Eloy


Ask me again in another few years and I will tell you that I wasn't any good until my last jump.too.



Honestly, It took me about 100 jumps to get RIGHT -UP-CLOSE to my friends but there jump #'s were lower than mine. so there was ALOT of chasing.
I think I did about 20-50 free tandem videos. SOME of them were sold and I got a few bucks. The last few years though I jumped without Vid/stills about 3 times.

Once I upgraded to DIGI stills I was able to see every picture and I was able to critique them and adjust accordingly. Until than, it was all guess work.

My photos

My Videos

[DSE 3]

Quote

[
I'm continuously learning and hope that I'm continuing to get better (even though I don't have the people to learn from that DSE has...)

Yes, you do. Just pick up the phone or use the internet.
Jay Stokes is listed through USPA.
Ed Dickenson is "Cajones" on DZ.com
Norman Kent can be reached through his http://www.normankent.com website.
McGowan (good luck getting him right now, military keeps him hopping) can be reached through SkydiveAZ.com
In some cases, it's just a matter of asking and a jump ticket. IMO, MORE than worth it.
Just realized I failed to mention John Crowell in there too. He's a great flyer, and watching him film 4way is pretty inspirational.

[saly 0]

Giving my age away but first was in the eighties between 200 and 300 jumps. Then state of the art was a VHS recorder (yes you heard right) mounted with a cutaway on a chest strap and an umbilical cable to a camera mounted on an open faced motor cycle helmet.

We then graduated to a compact VHS handy cam.

Once you have jumped those set ups, the new small cameras are a breeze

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If you don't have wings you will never fly

[Superfletch 1]

I started jumping camera with just over a hundred jumps. My main motivation was that I couldn't get any video of myself and I thought that the other camera jumpers would be more likely to jump with me if I'd video them at the same time. Anyway, that didn't really work out too well because I've got 1,700 jumps now, most of them video and I can count on both hands all the video shot of me... hahahahaha... Anyway, shortly there after I started filming all my coach jump (I got my instructors rating after 100 jumps) so that I would be better able to debrief students. I find video to be the best tool in showing a student what they might be doing wrong. I started chasing tandems with just under 200 jumps in hopes of making the tandem video rotation. Being quite the perfectionist, I didn't even ask to shoot tandems for money until my videos were (pretty good) every single time. Most of my TI said I was ready long before that, but I was unwilling to take the chance at having to tell a student that I was sorry for the crappy video I gave them, so I waited to enter the rotation until I was sure I could get the shot.

I've been filming skydiving for several years now and I find that I learn something on most every jump. Flying camera I think has made me a much better skydiver and improved my flying skills ten fold. I love shooting camera.

I have found that I prefer to go up and film an unpaid skydive that costs me money rather than do a paid AFF or something like that just to have the opportunity to get a great shot. It's my favorite aspect of the sport.

Gary "Superfletch" Fletcher
D-26145; USPA Coach, IAD/I, AFF/I
Videographer/Photographer

[Cashmanimal 0]

I made my first camera jump at 114, side-mount video only. Made my first jump with stills at 130, no video. Combined both at 140. Made my first paid video jump at 185 (Cat D I believe?). Started doing paid AFF video at 198, filmed nothing but that until 215, then focused more on my own flying skills again for a bit, since I felt that parking myself outside the AFF and orbiting with it wasn't helping too much anymore. At 232 I filmed my first tandem (with a tandem instructor who I had made probably 75% of my jumps with), at 240 I started getting paid for them.

I have since decided starting prior to 200 was not the best idea, but I don't think it was a TERRIBLE idea because I had a lot of guidance and coaching and other things that don't matter when posting in an online forum.

I have since all but stopped doing paid video jobs because I have an endless list of skills to develop that will drastically improve my camera work. (head-down exits, back-flying with a tandem, etc.). Although I had a strong learning curve, it didn't negate the fact that I was doing enough to get by and get paid instead of REALLY developing my skills as a camera flyer.

But I will say that flying camera has helped many skills develop much faster and better than they would if I were doing other disciplines. Everything is give and take, I guess.

I completely understand all the "suggestions, guidelines, etc" set forth by manufacturers and such authority. I have made plenty of jumps now with people that have 100+ jumps more than me that I thought were completely reckless and had no business putting much more than a Pro-Tec on their head. On the flip side, I know people who have 150 jumps and an hour of tunnel time who can fly circles around many camera "flyers" out there.

I have not been in the sport very long, but I already think it is obvious where the sport is headed as far as jump numbers and disciplines. I was getting a kick out of a write-up I read mentioning what a death-trap wing suits were and how they discipline had no future in the sport....

It's all fun and until someone loses an eye... then it's just a game to find the eye

[gearless_chris 1]

My first was jump #133, not outside video for a while and not paid. Tandem video was a little over 300, 35mm stills around 375, digital stills around 500. I have a hard time being in the formation after doing a lot of outside video too. I tend to fly 2 feet away from my slot until I realize the missing guy is me .

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[BGill 0]

right after i hit 200. i followed the rules. glad i did, because i was able to become a better flyer before strapping it on... but even with that my videos still sucked.

first stills was somewhere between 500-600 jumps.

[yeyo 1]

Voted less than 200 and i think it was stupid...
Started on #113
#115 forgot to turn on the camera
#117 forgot goggles on the ground
#179 found myself on a 3way sit at 3000' when break off was at 5000'

All those I knew I had to watch out for, and still happened .
So if you dont got the jumps and are thinking about it, learn from my stupidity and get more jumps.

HISPA #93
DS #419.5

[stratostar 5]

Less then a 100 (80) and it was really really stupid in hindsight, in fact I almost killed myself twice and almost killed a tandem once all before 150 jumps. There are many good reasons why the numbers and advice are what they are and I would tell anyone who says, "well you did it and lived, I should be fine" that they are stupid and playing with fire and I won't jump with them. But what the fuck dose it really matter anymore we have idiot proofed the sport to a point that monkey's with no jumps and his head up his ass could do it and live, so if you want to be a retard and some greedy DZO will let um film TDM's without the exp. needed, let um go ahead do it, they might live or they might make it to a front row seat on the bounce tour and if they take out a TDM doing it, oh well, you pay your money and take your chances.......right? I think that's what I see so many people post/say about other types corner cutting, and besides that nothing like a good bounce story in the news to get the DZ phone ringing.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo