Sabre 150 / Spectre 150 opinions please

[motion 0]

Hey all. I have 48 jumps. I jump my own Javelin J4 with a Sabre 190 P3. I would like to downsize and change canopy's for the following reasons:
1. The P3 is hard for this newbie to pack cleanly
2. Its huge and heavy to carry on my back.. would prefer something more compact and lighter.
3. I am very comfortable with my landing speed and the canopy performance. If you think going to a 150 is too much, please let me know.
4. The openings SUCK. I've used a couple of the tips here and they have helped, but its taking the fun out of my jumps. I demo'd a Spectre 190 before I bought this rig and was totally happy with its slow openings.
I have a line on a Vector V1-2 with a Sabre 150, and also a Javelin J1 with a 7 cell Spectre 150.
My main concerns: Easy, slow, consistent openings. Predictable landings and flares. I'm not into swooping or riser diving yet, of course.
I'm 6' and 175 pounds. I'm currently jumping about 10 jumps per month. Given my requirements, which rig would you recommend? Thanks for any and all input.

[indyz 1]

If you're 175 pounds without gear, then you and I are built pretty similarly. I only have 65 jumps, so I won't be surprised or upset if you ignore me. That said, I'm jumping a Spectre 170 and it's as small as I feel that I can safely go with my experience. If you really want to try a 150, please try jumping a 170 first. Going from a 1.05:1 wingloading on a 190 to a 1.33:1 wingloading on a 150 is a drastic change.

As for the differences between the two... I've jumped a Spectre 170 and Sabre 170. IMHO, the Spectre opens better, flies better, and lands better than the Sabre. The Sabre I was jumping was pretty old rental gear, so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the issues I had with it were because of it's age.

[Dumpster 0]

I fully agree here- Not to sound cocky, but I downsized radically when coming off student status and while I did well, there is no way I would reccomend it to any one- Find a 170 first- And you won't go wrong with a Spectre.

Easy Does It

[skygod7777 0]

dude, don't downsize too quickly. if you do, i can almost garuntee you'll screw up and pound your self in one day. and i hate reading insident reports from someone killing themsleves under a fully open canopy. and if you go slowly, you'll be the better canopy pilot in the long run. really. look at all the great swoopers, and see thier canopy progression, they were really slow downsizing, learning the canopy completly before moving on.

just something to think about

but hey, it's just my opinioin, do what you want because opinions are like assholes............everyone has one...........and the all stink!!

later

[MattM 0]

I started on my Sabre 150 about jump 100 and even some people said that was too quick. Put atleast 50 on a 170.

Matt

[skybytch 259]

Quote

1. The P3 is hard for this newbie to pack cleanly

It'll be just as hard to pack a smaller one. Slippery is slippery no matter what size it is.

Quote

2. Its huge and heavy to carry on my back.. would prefer something more compact and lighter.

Plaster is heavy too. I've heard that titanium is pretty light though.

Quote

3. I am very comfortable with my landing speed and the canopy performance. If you think going to a 150 is too much, please let me know.

Can you put that 190 exactly where you want, every time (like on a beer can exactly, not on the dz exactly)? Can you stand it up in no wind? Crosswind? Downwind? Into someone's backyard? Know how to do a flat turn? A flare turn? Do you practice them often? Would either of those be your automatic reaction if someone cut you off while you were on final? Do you use your front risers? How 'bout your rear risers? Think you could land that 190 using only rear risers?

If you can't say yes to all of those questions, then I'd say a 150 is too much.

Quote

4. The openings SUCK. I've used a couple of the tips here and they have helped, but its taking the fun out of my jumps. I demo'd a Spectre 190 before I bought this rig and was totally happy with its slow openings.

Why not buy a Spectre 190 then?

Quote

My main concerns: Easy, slow, consistent openings. Predictable landings and flares. I'm not into swooping or riser diving yet, of course.

I'm 6' and 175 pounds. I'm currently jumping about 10 jumps per month. Given my requirements, which rig would you recommend?

I'd recommend that you buy a Spectre (or Sabre2/Safire2/Hornet if you prefer the landing characteristics of a nine cell) 190 and learn to fly the shit out of it - i.e. get some canopy control coaching and then really fly that 190 for 100-200 jumps. Then move down to a 170.

10 jumps a month is not staying current enough to handle a 1.3 wingloading at your experience level. Even if you've been flying a 190 for all your jumps, 48 jumps is not enough for anyone to even have begun to explore a canopy's full performance envelope.

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

Easy, slow, consistent openings. Predictable landings and flares.

My first canopy off student status ([ducking and looking for skybytch to smack me] starting around jump number 50 [/ducking]) was a Sabre 150. I put about 200 jumps on it before moving on. I was super-current at the time (all 250 jumps were done in around 2 months), and had no trouble with the landings. I don't recommend doing that.
That said, if you are looking for good openings, don't get the Sabre (I assume we're talking about a Sabre I, here). My openings were often hard, and usually unpredictable. I've heard the same complaint from other Sabre jumpers.
I've never jumped a Spectre, but they have a reputation for much better openigns than the Sabre.
Have you demo'd the canopies in question? I'd certainly start there before buying one of them.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[skymonkey2004 0]

I have 46 jumps, and I just recently downsized to a Spectre 170. I have nine jumps on it, and I am still not comfortable with the speed and maneuverability coming in. The 190 to 170 change was huge for me because it broke the 1:1 wingloading threshhold for me. My advice is jump a 170 first and see how it handles before going lower. Hope this helps or something.

Blue Skies
mike

[grosfion 0]

Isn't that funny. You ask an opinion about two different canopies and you get good advice that you should downsize slowly. I guess you know already what size of canopy you want when you test jump it.

So back to your question: Sabre: (talking about the old one) has some nasty openings every 50 jumps or so, but the glide and flare is very good. the Spectre has very slow openings but sometimes it is a little bit difficult to come back from a long spot In my opinion the flare is not so powerful than the Sabre. This was just my experience when I jumped both. Just read a little bit about the differences between 7-cells and 9-cells. I think both are very good canopies, with different characterisics.

And always remember only if you are able to perform a stand-up landing facing downwind in a thunderstorm with 3 main line broken and only one toggle line you should be downsizing

blues
Marcus

[nacmacfeegle 0]

I own both a Sabre, and a Spectre. Both loaded at about 1.6 ish lbs/sqft
I prefer my spectre.
It maybe because its newer, and my sabre is still with Slappie on long term loan....But hey, you asked for a preference between the two, and my advice is go with the spectre.
PM me if you want to discuss pros and cons of each.....I don't really need to justify my decision here, and don't want to offend die hard sabre jockeys...

I'm also not going to preach on downsizing strategies, that is a different question all together, and quite well answered here already....

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[174fps 1]

Quote

Hey all. I have 48 jumps. I jump my own Javelin J4 with a Sabre 190 P3. I would like to downsize and change canopy's for the following reasons:

Quote

1. The P3 is hard for this newbie to pack cleanly
2. Its huge and heavy to carry on my back.. would prefer something more compact and lighter.

we should all fly 59ft2 packs easy really compact j/k

Quote

3. I am very comfortable with my landing speed and the canopy performance.

Imageine you are visiting a friend in Colorado where the landing area is 5000 ft above sea level.still comfortable?

Quote

If you think going to a 150 is too much, please let me know.

Deuce went to a 150 at 350? and tore a divot in the
ground , I'm the same height and 5 pounds lighter
than you, I have a Spectre 170 almost 400 jumps on it, and I still feel there is more performance that I
can learn to get out of it.
I'ts the pilot not the canopy.

Quote

4. The openings SUCK. I've used a couple of the tips here and they have helped, but its taking the fun out of my jumps. I demo'd a Spectre 190 before I bought this rig and was totally happy with its slow openings.

you answered your own question get a Spectre.

Quote

I have a line on a Vector V1-2 with a Sabre 150, and also a Javelin J1 with a 7 cell Spectre 150.

there is a reason femur is a verb in skydiving.

Quote

My main concerns: Easy, slow, consistent openings. Predictable landings and flares. I'm not into swooping or riser diving yet, of course.

Spectre. Spectre. Spectre.

I'm 6' and 175 pounds. I'm currently jumping about 10 jumps per month. Given my requirements, which rig would you recommend? Thanks for any and all input.

packing will become easier
learn the riser inputs on a 190
remember to have fun.

Andrew

[skygod7777 0]

Quote

we should all fly 59ft2 packs easy really compact j/k

hell, those would probably be harder to pack. i know that my vx is harder to pack than a brand new 99 crossfire, or 120.

the little ones tend to be kinda a pain at first, just like any other canopy, but it doesn't go away as fast.

later

[riggerrob 558]

Consider yourself lectured on down-sizing.

Your main question is about generations. First generation Sabres are "unforgiving of sloppy packing," Whereas all the later generation Spectres, Sabres IIs, Safires, Hornets, etc. are designed to open softly with all but the worst pack jobs.

[JohanW 0]

[MUST NOT LECTURE ON DOWNSIZING][MUST NOT LECTURE ON DOWNSIZING][MUST NOT LECTURE ON DOWNSIZING]If you have those lines on those rigs, demo them. I demoed a lot of canopies but never ran across a Sabre1 (have two jumps on a 210), but I liked Merits and Silhouettes a lot better than Spectres, not to mention Triathlons. It's a very personal thing, so demo demo demo.[MUST NOT LECTURE ON DOWNSIZING][MUST NOT LECTURE ON DOWNSIZING][MUST NOT LECTURE ON DOWNSIZING]

That said, I am currently planning to continue jumping my 170 until at least 500 jumps OH DARN. (But I'm slightly over 210 lbs out the door.)

I have absolutely no instructional ratings whatsoever in skydiving, so do not take my word on downsizing.

Johan.
I am. I think.

[goose491 0]

My first canopy off student status (current canopy) is a Specter 150 (loaded 1:1)

Although the ZP is just as slippery, I find the seven cell much easier/quicker to pack and much easier/slower to deploy. Having said that, it is also a very docile canopy by nature which you CAN bring in hot. I'm no guru but I say don't go from a 190 straight to a 150 without at least exploring and experimenting with some canopies in the 170 size. Borrow a friends 170. You should be able to say 'yes' to all Lisa's questions on it before considering it but I truly beleive that with the Spectre, a 1:1 loading is just terrific!

Nick

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[skycop 0]

I'd go with minimum 170, a 150 may put you into a bad situation. 100-200 jumps on a 170-190 will teach you how to control your canopy with a larger margin for error. Remember, it only takes ONE lapse in judgement for a trip to the hospital or worse.
I'm a 7-cell kinda guy, I'd go with the Spectre. Triathlon's are good canopies too, and they pack a little easier.
IMHO
Blue Skies

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[rapper4mpi 0]

Credentials: 750+ jump skydiving instructor with 8 years in the sport. The first piece of advice is to talk with your local instructors who know you best. Second, don't focus on downsizing just so you can get a deal on a good rig, there are many rigs out there in your canopy size range that will be perfect for you.
Regarding a Sabre Vs. a Spectre. Well, Sabre I's are not as forgiving to sloppy packing as the Spectre, BUT I have found the Sabre to have a flatter glide, great flare, faster turns and decent power in the flare. The Spectres are more docile, open much slower (usually equals softer), and is very forgiving to all kinds of mistakes.
Be safe and good luck!
-Rap

[motion 0]

Thanks all for the opinions and wisdom. Of course, I'm going to defer to your experience and go with a Spectre 170. The Sabres sound like they have a bit more performance, but the Spectre is much more enjoyable to fly overall.