Foursprouts 0 #1 January 28, 2006 As I do not have many jumps I am not thinking about changing canopy as the one I have I am happy with and still have lots to learn on it. Just out of boredom and curiosity can someone answer this question. Is it best when downsizing from a saber2 150 to go to something like a Saber2 135 and progress on that for a few hundred jumps then go for a stilleto 135 or is it best to go from a saber2 150 to a stilleto 150 and progress on that for a few hundred jumps then go for a stilleto 135. The end result will be a stilleto 135 with about 500 jumps, which way is safer and likely going to end in a better pilot? As I have just over 100 jumps and am happy with my canopy I am not thinking of changing just asking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #2 January 28, 2006 Quoteas the one I have I am happy with and still have lots to learn on it. Just out of boredom and curiosity can someone answer this question. If your profile is correct, keep jumping your current canopy and "Bore yourself some more" Stay with what you have for at least 200 more jumps, then entertain the idea of a semi-elipitical canopy. And be sure to disscuss this with your instructors and DZO & S&TA. Take a canopy control class as well. No hurry here.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Foursprouts 0 #3 January 28, 2006 As I said in my post I am not thinking of downsizing. I want to be able to do everything I can on my spectre as if I can't what is the point of downsizing. I am just asking a question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #4 January 28, 2006 ??? I see you see the trend, but you don't know the reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cacophony 0 #5 January 28, 2006 When you are ready, a Sabre 2 is a better step towards becoming a better swooper believe it or not. At least in my opinion it is, and I've got over 1000 Stiletto jumps. Just because a canopy is elliptical doesn't make it a better swoop canopy. The characteristics are just a little different. If you really concentrate on being a good canopy pilot then by 500 jumps you will most likely have the potential to match an equally skilled pilot on a Stiletto of the same wing loading. In the long run, the Sabre is going to perform a little more like the really high performance canopies out there. Does that help? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedDevil1102 0 #6 January 29, 2006 Its really up to you and how much you want to push the limit. I have a little over 200 and have jumped stilleto all the way down to 135 and have a jump on a 95 Cobalt. From what little experience I have, I would say to stay where you are. Thay are right about the characteristics between the Sabre and Stilleto. Almost the same. I actually flew a sabre2 135 that outperformed a stilleto 150. The safer route usually is the better.The brave may not live forever, but the cautious do not live at all Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #7 January 29, 2006 I have a little over 200 and have jumped stilleto all the way down to 135 and have a jump on a 95 COBALT Quote OOOO, I'm going to go grab some popcorn and watch the fireworks FLAME AWAYHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ntacfreefly 0 #8 January 29, 2006 QuoteWhen you are ready, a Sabre 2 is a better step towards becoming a better swooper believe it or not. At least in my opinion it is Agreed. I don't even factor Stiletto's into my recommended canopy progression anymore. It's there are just better alternatives. IMO the Sabre2 is one of the most underated swoop canopies for intermediates and advanced, out there. edit: To the original poster, I'd recommend staying on the Sabre2 150 for a while more (at least another 200 jumps). Most people are surprised at how much more there is a to learn about their canopy with a little direction. Blues, IanTo the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Martini 0 #9 January 29, 2006 IMHO at your wingloading you'll find a big difference going to a smaller canopy, less so changing canopy shape. Naturally the conservative way is to only change one thing at a time. I went from a Stiletto 150 to a 135 and found it to be challenging. Going from square to elliptical seemed simple. Please consult people who watch you fly and are qualified to help you choose.Sometimes you eat the bear.............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #10 January 29, 2006 Hmmm...I've got over 500 jumps on my canopy and I'm just now starting to seriously consider downsizing and still I'm not quite happy with my performance on this canopy and am planning on putting a few hundred more jumps on it. You're right though, 100 jumps is more then enough to fully learn all a canopy has to offer in terms of performance, especially at your experience level.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bob.dino 0 #11 January 29, 2006 QuoteYou're right though, 100 jumps is more then enough to fully learn all a canopy has to offer in terms of performance, especially at your experience level. You did read the parts where he twice specifically said he'd no interest in downsizing, and was just asking out of curiosity, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #12 January 29, 2006 QuoteYou did read the parts where he twice specifically said he'd no interest in downsizing, and was just asking out of curiosity, right? Actually, yes, but he's not the only one reading this thread. I was there once and I made the wrong decisions. I was hoping that someone somewhere might read this and it'll help them make much better decisions then I did when I was that new to the sport.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shark 0 #13 January 29, 2006 Take a canopy course first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jheadley 0 #14 January 29, 2006 A guy asked a similar question to scott miller when he gave a short canopy control speech at Collegiates. He basically said he's rather see someone go to a same-sized eliptical than downsize. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Peej 0 #15 January 30, 2006 QuoteIMO the Sabre2 is one of the most underated swoop canopies for intermediates and advanced, out there. I couldn't agree more. I just started jumping an orignal Sabre 150 loaded at about 1.5 this weekend and it's a machine. I can only imagine the Sabre 2 at the same loading. Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #16 January 30, 2006 I know you feel like at 200 jumps you have a handle on the canopy thing, but you don't. I'd say that anyone under 1500 to 2000 jumps needs at least 200 jumps on nay one canoyp to really give an accurate desciption of the canopies performance and abilities. Even then, if you have 1500 jumps, you need at least 50 or so, on a lower performance canopy than you usually jump to really 'know' a canopy. More if you're jumping a higher performance canopy than you're used to. Aggresssive downsizing isn't game, and it usually doen't end well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frost 1 #17 January 30, 2006 You probably got a lot of answers to the question you DIDNT ask :) You should check out that (raw) video form CO CPC on this forum to see what some people can do with a Sabre 2! :) Now THAT guy is a great pilot, getting the most out of his wing! Forget stiletto - that's old stuff. Crossfire 2 is a much better wing.SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Fab 0 #18 January 30, 2006 Where can I find this video? Tried a search but didn't get anything....thanks _______________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ntacfreefly 0 #19 January 30, 2006 It's on skydivingmovies.com. http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=3282 Blues.To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frost 1 #20 January 30, 2006 Thats the one.SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dharma1976 0 #21 January 31, 2006 dude sabre 2 is a great canopy to learn to swoop on, I should just make a word file on my computer that says this... I learned everything I know now about swooping on a sabre2 170...then I downsized not to an elliptical but to a sabre 2 150 and learned to tweak what I knew at that point to the smaller cnaopy...then I moved to elliptical....and heres the kicker...get some input from experienced canopy coaches at your dropzone, preferably those who are in positions of power such as instructors/S&TA's/ the pro swoopers at your dropzone...as to when you should downsize/go elliptical... and then you wont have to relearn how to walk..like I did when I rushed it when I had 200 jumps.... titanium sucks ass but maybe my lessons can make you a wise man learning from my mistakes... Cheers Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Foursprouts 0 #22 January 31, 2006 Thanks for the replys. I am going to do at least 300 jumps on my current canopy which is a spectre 150, I should have said that in my origional post but if I went to a 135 without going proerly eliptical I would get a saber2 as I would be loading it close to 1.6 and have heard that spectres are not great with that sort of loading. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vdschoor 0 #23 January 31, 2006 QuoteThanks for the replys. I am going to do at least 300 jumps on my current canopy which is a spectre 150, I should have said that in my origional post but if I went to a 135 without going proerly eliptical I would get a saber2 as I would be loading it close to 1.6 and have heard that spectres are not great with that sort of loading. The Sabre2 is a swoop MONSTER at 1.6, I've got 600 jumps on my Sabre2 150 at that wingloading, and it's amazing... Now I am flying a Sabre2 135 and it keeps impressing me just as much.. that canopy will go a long long way.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Cacophony 0 #24 January 31, 2006 QuoteYou should check out that (raw) video form CO CPC on this forum to see what some people can do with a Sabre 2! :) Now THAT guy is a great pilot, getting the most out of his wing! I especially like the part where he gets a red flag! Tried a little too hard. Looks good for a Sabre 135 though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #25 February 1, 2006 I load my Sabre2 97 at 1.8 and you better bet your ass I swoop the piss out of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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ntacfreefly 0 #8 January 29, 2006 QuoteWhen you are ready, a Sabre 2 is a better step towards becoming a better swooper believe it or not. At least in my opinion it is Agreed. I don't even factor Stiletto's into my recommended canopy progression anymore. It's there are just better alternatives. IMO the Sabre2 is one of the most underated swoop canopies for intermediates and advanced, out there. edit: To the original poster, I'd recommend staying on the Sabre2 150 for a while more (at least another 200 jumps). Most people are surprised at how much more there is a to learn about their canopy with a little direction. Blues, IanTo the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martini 0 #9 January 29, 2006 IMHO at your wingloading you'll find a big difference going to a smaller canopy, less so changing canopy shape. Naturally the conservative way is to only change one thing at a time. I went from a Stiletto 150 to a 135 and found it to be challenging. Going from square to elliptical seemed simple. Please consult people who watch you fly and are qualified to help you choose.Sometimes you eat the bear.............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #10 January 29, 2006 Hmmm...I've got over 500 jumps on my canopy and I'm just now starting to seriously consider downsizing and still I'm not quite happy with my performance on this canopy and am planning on putting a few hundred more jumps on it. You're right though, 100 jumps is more then enough to fully learn all a canopy has to offer in terms of performance, especially at your experience level.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #11 January 29, 2006 QuoteYou're right though, 100 jumps is more then enough to fully learn all a canopy has to offer in terms of performance, especially at your experience level. You did read the parts where he twice specifically said he'd no interest in downsizing, and was just asking out of curiosity, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #12 January 29, 2006 QuoteYou did read the parts where he twice specifically said he'd no interest in downsizing, and was just asking out of curiosity, right? Actually, yes, but he's not the only one reading this thread. I was there once and I made the wrong decisions. I was hoping that someone somewhere might read this and it'll help them make much better decisions then I did when I was that new to the sport.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #13 January 29, 2006 Take a canopy course first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jheadley 0 #14 January 29, 2006 A guy asked a similar question to scott miller when he gave a short canopy control speech at Collegiates. He basically said he's rather see someone go to a same-sized eliptical than downsize. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #15 January 30, 2006 QuoteIMO the Sabre2 is one of the most underated swoop canopies for intermediates and advanced, out there. I couldn't agree more. I just started jumping an orignal Sabre 150 loaded at about 1.5 this weekend and it's a machine. I can only imagine the Sabre 2 at the same loading. Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #16 January 30, 2006 I know you feel like at 200 jumps you have a handle on the canopy thing, but you don't. I'd say that anyone under 1500 to 2000 jumps needs at least 200 jumps on nay one canoyp to really give an accurate desciption of the canopies performance and abilities. Even then, if you have 1500 jumps, you need at least 50 or so, on a lower performance canopy than you usually jump to really 'know' a canopy. More if you're jumping a higher performance canopy than you're used to. Aggresssive downsizing isn't game, and it usually doen't end well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frost 1 #17 January 30, 2006 You probably got a lot of answers to the question you DIDNT ask :) You should check out that (raw) video form CO CPC on this forum to see what some people can do with a Sabre 2! :) Now THAT guy is a great pilot, getting the most out of his wing! Forget stiletto - that's old stuff. Crossfire 2 is a much better wing.SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fab 0 #18 January 30, 2006 Where can I find this video? Tried a search but didn't get anything....thanks _______________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ntacfreefly 0 #19 January 30, 2006 It's on skydivingmovies.com. http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=3282 Blues.To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frost 1 #20 January 30, 2006 Thats the one.SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #21 January 31, 2006 dude sabre 2 is a great canopy to learn to swoop on, I should just make a word file on my computer that says this... I learned everything I know now about swooping on a sabre2 170...then I downsized not to an elliptical but to a sabre 2 150 and learned to tweak what I knew at that point to the smaller cnaopy...then I moved to elliptical....and heres the kicker...get some input from experienced canopy coaches at your dropzone, preferably those who are in positions of power such as instructors/S&TA's/ the pro swoopers at your dropzone...as to when you should downsize/go elliptical... and then you wont have to relearn how to walk..like I did when I rushed it when I had 200 jumps.... titanium sucks ass but maybe my lessons can make you a wise man learning from my mistakes... Cheers Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Foursprouts 0 #22 January 31, 2006 Thanks for the replys. I am going to do at least 300 jumps on my current canopy which is a spectre 150, I should have said that in my origional post but if I went to a 135 without going proerly eliptical I would get a saber2 as I would be loading it close to 1.6 and have heard that spectres are not great with that sort of loading. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vdschoor 0 #23 January 31, 2006 QuoteThanks for the replys. I am going to do at least 300 jumps on my current canopy which is a spectre 150, I should have said that in my origional post but if I went to a 135 without going proerly eliptical I would get a saber2 as I would be loading it close to 1.6 and have heard that spectres are not great with that sort of loading. The Sabre2 is a swoop MONSTER at 1.6, I've got 600 jumps on my Sabre2 150 at that wingloading, and it's amazing... Now I am flying a Sabre2 135 and it keeps impressing me just as much.. that canopy will go a long long way.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cacophony 0 #24 January 31, 2006 QuoteYou should check out that (raw) video form CO CPC on this forum to see what some people can do with a Sabre 2! :) Now THAT guy is a great pilot, getting the most out of his wing! I especially like the part where he gets a red flag! Tried a little too hard. Looks good for a Sabre 135 though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #25 February 1, 2006 I load my Sabre2 97 at 1.8 and you better bet your ass I swoop the piss out of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
