freeflycracker 0 #1 January 17, 2002 Assumably, the point at wich the cascade lines attach to the A lines wasnt the manufacturing problem. Simply asprin to cover up the problem. Since this is an assumption: Is a crossfire with the mod performed the same canopy as one that wasnt on the list? Do normal crossfires have the squirrely openings that the modded ones do now? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #2 January 26, 2002 as far as i can know the line modification does not fix the aerodynamic instability the crossfires have, only cause the problem to happen deeper in the control range.sincerely,dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #3 January 26, 2002 Quote Is a crossfire with the mod performed the same canopy as one that wasnt on the list? Do normal crossfires have the squirrely openings that the modded ones do now? My old Crossfire had great openings, but I haven't jumped one with the line trim change.. I have talked to a couple people that have, and they say the canopy does not perform or open nearly as well as it did before.. I don't believe that the trim change will correct the problem, just mask it.. I do not trust Icarus, and will not jump a Crossfire or any other product of theirs because of the way they dealt with the Crossfire problem, and more specifically, my situation with the Crossfire..Oh, and just so you guys know.....My old Crossfire, which has been disassembled and reassembled a couple times at the factory in Spain, and had the lines replaced a couple times(all while trying to figure out what was wrong with it), is up for sale on the "Demo's for sale" list at Icarus.. Anybody want to give it a chance and see if it tries to kill ya?Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarcusV 0 #4 January 27, 2002 Quoteas far as i can know the line modification does not fix the aerodynamic instability the crossfires have, only cause the problem to happen deeper in the control range. Dan,this is quite vague. Can you give any reasons/arguments/proofs for this?Thanks very muchblues Marcus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #5 January 28, 2002 5 crossfires were tested by nasa in a windtunnel.the report should be published next month.sincerely,dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #6 January 28, 2002 really?man taht sucks for them..marc"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #7 January 28, 2002 Quote5 crossfires were tested by nasa in a windtunnel.the report should be published next month.i would expect either a recall of all crossfires (to be discarded and not for line trim modification), or icarus to close.Merely my opinion here, but I think it is totally and completely unethical for a direct competitor to post the above in a public forum without also posting the results of said tests. pull and flare,lisa--Life is tough, but I'm tougher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 4 #8 January 28, 2002 QuoteMerely my opinion here, but I think it is totally and completely unethical for a direct competitor to post the above in a public forum without also posting the results of said tests. Just my opinion, but I don't see anything wrong with it. Maybe he doesn't have the specific results, maybe he doesn't want to accidently give false information. Just stating that there were tests done, and his (negative) interpretation will just have people watching for the informationI ain't happy, I'm feeling gladI got sunshine, in a bag Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,470 #9 January 28, 2002 >Merely my opinion here, but I think it is totally and completely unethical for a direct competitor to post the >above in a public forum without also posting the results of said tests. I think most people understand that Dan is eager to sell "his" gear, and take his advice accordingly. His opinion is still valid, even though he has a vested interest in one manufacturer. That being said, I would hope that if, in the future, someone is critical of a Cobalt, Dan treats them with the same respect that he asks for when he posts things like the above.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #10 January 28, 2002 Scratch what used to be here. My argument sucked, but I still think that it is somewhat unethical. I would be freaking out if I owned a Crossfire, I would be cancelling my order if I had one in (or at least putting it on hold until I saw that report), and if I was in the market for a Crossfire I might go elsewhere.--BrianHomepage Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #11 January 28, 2002 I think Simon and the guys and gals over at Icarus have every opportunity to come online here and defend there canopy....So I do not feel that Dan is being unethical here..marc"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RemiAndKaren 0 #12 January 28, 2002 I too do not feel this is an unethical position. Dan is clear in identifying himself as a employee of Atair, and these comments are made in a public forum. Maybe he'll get sued for diffamation, but that does not make his attitude unethical.RemiMuff 914 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prost 0 #13 January 28, 2002 Why would NASA be testing sport parachutes? I can't see this being a big enough issue for them to get invovled. Where is this testing being conducted? Or is it that someone who works for NASA is testing them?William Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #14 January 28, 2002 lisa: fair enough...btw simon of icarus did start a liable law suit against me after my first comments about the crossfire and the accident i witnessed at the ranch.the case was droped after one response from our lawyer. it seems the truth is the best defense in a liable case. for further protection of both myself and friends jumping crossfires, i funded an independent test.so far tested in a fullsize wind tunnel are 5 crossfires both on the 'list' and not on the list. i am waiting for 2 more crossfires with newer line trim modifications to arrive for testing before the report will be released. sincerely,dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #15 January 28, 2002 so who's donating these test models.... I'm sure you've worked something out with Simon, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #16 January 28, 2002 QuoteI would be freaking out if I owned a Crossfire, I would be cancelling my order if I had one in (or at least putting it on hold until I saw that report), and if I was in the market for a Crossfire I might go elsewhere.And that's exactly why I feel it's not ethical. If someone not involved in canopy manufacturing had posted it I'd feel different.Quotefor further protection of both myself and friends jumping crossfires, i funded an independent test.so far tested in a fullsize wind tunnel are 5 crossfires both on the 'list' and not on the list. i am waiting for 2 more crossfires with newer line trim modifications to arrive for testing before the report will be released. Props to you for doing this out of your own pocket; I have friends jumping Crossfires too and I'm very interested in the results. But again imho you should wait until all the results are in before making statements in a public forum like "i expect... icarus to close." To me this sounds like rumor-mongering as you offer nothing but the fact that testing is underway to back it up.pull and flare,lisa--Life is tough, but I'm tougher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmsmith 1 #17 January 29, 2002 >Props to you for doing this out of your own pocket; I have>friends jumping Crossfires too and I'm very interested in the>results. But again imho you should wait until all the results >are in before making statements in a public forum like "i >expect... icarus to close." To me this sounds like rumor->mongering as you offer nothing but the fact that testing is >underway to back it up.A scientific investigation implemented when the desired results are already known will be viewed with skepticism unless it is conducted by a disinterested third party.-- Sincerely,Richard M. Smith(509) 754-1126[email protected] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #18 January 29, 2002 lisa: it is not my intention to try to create a rumor. only state fact and not interpretation. in this interest i asked sangiro to delete the offending line "i would expect.." from my post.rm: we tested the canopies in house but then comissioned a study by an agency that no one could poke bias at. and make no mistake if my findings were proved wrong, i would make that known. i am not out to hurt anyone, whole point being to prevent that.-dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #19 January 29, 2002 Incidentally NASA does all sorts of aviation testing. I read a test a few months ago on tail plane stalls induced by icing conditions. I got all excited because I saw an Otter on the front page of the ALPA article. NASA does a bunch of testing to make general aviation safer. They would be the natural choice for expertise in this area. "I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #20 January 29, 2002 QuoteNASA does a bunch of testing to make general aviation safer. Heh. Funny how they do things like that at the National Aeronautics & Space Administration. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #21 January 29, 2002 "Funny how they do things like that at the National Aeronautics & Space Administration."Just thought I would point that out since some seemed confused as to why NASA would be testing parachutes. If has to do with aviation....they test it sooner or later. Especially when it's a safety issue. "I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyhi 24 #22 January 29, 2002 QuoteJust thought I would point that out since some seemed confused as to why NASA would be testing parachutes. If has to do with aviation....they test it sooner or later. Especially when it's a safety issue.Wasn't NASA doing some parachute tests with Skydive Arizona using BA Cargo chutes? I thought I read that in Parachutist a while back. The perfect agency for the test. BTW, was recently in the market for a new parachute and just because of the uncertainty, the Crossfire was not considered, nor were any of the Icarus canopies. Sorry, I can't afford the possibility of an equipment or company problem down the line. Got to go with the Big Boys who I know will be there down the road. Is it hot in here, or am I crazy? - Charles Mansonflyhi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #23 January 29, 2002 QuoteBTW, was recently in the market for a new parachute and just because of the uncertainty, the Crossfire was not considered, nor were any of the Icarus canopies. Sorry, I can't afford the possibility of an equipment or company problem down the line. Got to go with the Big Boys who I know will be there down the road. Cobalt Dan will be disapointed to hear that I ruled out the Cobalt for exactly he same reason. Before the Icarus issues surfaced I'd been seeking a Cobalt to demo. Once I realised how important customer can be I instantly decided to go with PD.He might consider these issues before mocking his compeditors..._Am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #24 January 29, 2002 Atair has as good or if not better service then PD. I had called PD asking for a demo canopy and told I would be placed on the waiting list, but it could be up to 4 months before I might get it, or I might get it in 3 weeks. Atair let me specify with in 2 weeks of when my Ideal time was and tried to get it to me on those dates. Atair even shipped me a new, never jumped canopy just to make sure that I had it in time for a Christams trip. By getting me that Demo, Atair got 2 sales, mine in a few weeks and one of the guys who borrowed it from me.Dan is the only one who posts here, but I've seen John LeBlanc, Brian Germain and Bill Booth all post on Rec. and most the time they are pointing out a flaw in something other then their own product. Simon from Icuras I thought was even on here too.I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites prost 0 #25 January 29, 2002 <"Funny how they do things like that at the National Aeronautics & Space Administration."Just thought I would point that out since some seemed confused as to why NASA would be testing parachutes. If has to do with aviation....they test it sooner or later. Especially when it's a safety issue>I understand that this is ina NASA's area. My comment was that I was surprised that they were concerned about a sport parachute. Let's face it . This is small potatoes for NASA. And if you would read the comments, it is an experiment paid for by atair or Dan Preston. So as far as them testing it sooner or later, I don't think it would happen if it wasn't a paid experiment.I would still like to know the details of this test. Who exactly is conductiong it where? What are the parameters of the test etc. ?William Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
freeflir29 0 #21 January 29, 2002 "Funny how they do things like that at the National Aeronautics & Space Administration."Just thought I would point that out since some seemed confused as to why NASA would be testing parachutes. If has to do with aviation....they test it sooner or later. Especially when it's a safety issue. "I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhi 24 #22 January 29, 2002 QuoteJust thought I would point that out since some seemed confused as to why NASA would be testing parachutes. If has to do with aviation....they test it sooner or later. Especially when it's a safety issue.Wasn't NASA doing some parachute tests with Skydive Arizona using BA Cargo chutes? I thought I read that in Parachutist a while back. The perfect agency for the test. BTW, was recently in the market for a new parachute and just because of the uncertainty, the Crossfire was not considered, nor were any of the Icarus canopies. Sorry, I can't afford the possibility of an equipment or company problem down the line. Got to go with the Big Boys who I know will be there down the road. Is it hot in here, or am I crazy? - Charles Mansonflyhi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #23 January 29, 2002 QuoteBTW, was recently in the market for a new parachute and just because of the uncertainty, the Crossfire was not considered, nor were any of the Icarus canopies. Sorry, I can't afford the possibility of an equipment or company problem down the line. Got to go with the Big Boys who I know will be there down the road. Cobalt Dan will be disapointed to hear that I ruled out the Cobalt for exactly he same reason. Before the Icarus issues surfaced I'd been seeking a Cobalt to demo. Once I realised how important customer can be I instantly decided to go with PD.He might consider these issues before mocking his compeditors..._Am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #24 January 29, 2002 Atair has as good or if not better service then PD. I had called PD asking for a demo canopy and told I would be placed on the waiting list, but it could be up to 4 months before I might get it, or I might get it in 3 weeks. Atair let me specify with in 2 weeks of when my Ideal time was and tried to get it to me on those dates. Atair even shipped me a new, never jumped canopy just to make sure that I had it in time for a Christams trip. By getting me that Demo, Atair got 2 sales, mine in a few weeks and one of the guys who borrowed it from me.Dan is the only one who posts here, but I've seen John LeBlanc, Brian Germain and Bill Booth all post on Rec. and most the time they are pointing out a flaw in something other then their own product. Simon from Icuras I thought was even on here too.I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prost 0 #25 January 29, 2002 <"Funny how they do things like that at the National Aeronautics & Space Administration."Just thought I would point that out since some seemed confused as to why NASA would be testing parachutes. If has to do with aviation....they test it sooner or later. Especially when it's a safety issue>I understand that this is ina NASA's area. My comment was that I was surprised that they were concerned about a sport parachute. Let's face it . This is small potatoes for NASA. And if you would read the comments, it is an experiment paid for by atair or Dan Preston. So as far as them testing it sooner or later, I don't think it would happen if it wasn't a paid experiment.I would still like to know the details of this test. Who exactly is conductiong it where? What are the parameters of the test etc. ?William Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
