Forming professional skydiving instructors organization?

[proskydiverorg 0]

I have been thinking about forming a organization for professional skydivers for several years now. It would definitely be a volunteer group effort to build. There are issues that I do not like in this industry, and I was wondering if other people feel the same. I think we have one of the best jobs in the world, and i believe that some "NOT ALL" DZO's take advantage of our passion and mistreat their staff because they can. The only way to prevent this is by uniting as a group.

I encourage all opinions to see if this is worth pursuing.

Anyone interested in helping?
For anonymous email:

[email protected]

[JohnRich 4]

Define "professional". Do you mean only full-time instructors would be allowed to join, and weekend-only instructors with regular monday through friday jobs would not be welcome? Do you consider weekend-only instructors not to be "professionals"? What are the membership criteria? What are the goals of the organization? Is this just some kind of union, to try and enforce a better pay scale? And if a DZO doesn't go along, then what?

[proskydiverorg 0]

The reason for posting this thread is to bring up these topics, for everyone's input. I think these are great questions. I think everyone should reply to these questions. If people show an interest then we can move on to goals and criteria base on what people want. What is your opinion on your own questions?

I mean those who skydive as their main source of income. This does not exclude weekend instructors as too are professionals, that serve a major role in the skydive industry.

pro·fes·sion·al
2 a : participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs b : having a particular profession as a permanent career c : engaged in by persons receiving financial return

I personally am happy with my pay per jump. However I'm sure their are instructors who are not happy at certain drop zones.

I am not trying to bash DZO's they have a very stressful business to run as a business owner. If a DZO truly cares about his staff then I'm sure he has better things to worry about. As for the one who don't care, they probably won't go along with it. I think DZO membership and input would be vital for everyone's interest. This is a voice of professional skydivers.

[peek 20]

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I have been thinking about forming a organization for professional skydivers ...

I hope you are joking, but fear you are not.

[matthewcline 0]

So how would the make up of this organization be done?

Is this just a copy of AOPA or USPA and more finite in its membership?

And what is your motivation for making this happen?

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[riggerrob 558]

How about offering three levels of membership: DZO (read only), full-time and part-time.

DZOs should have limited input because they are always in a conflict of interest, constantly deciding whether to spend profits on pay, airplane repairs, inventory, fuel, advertising, etc.

"Professional" refers to the fact that you receive pay for your work. Full-time and part-time instructors are held to the same ethical standards.

[popsjumper 2]

Union, huh?
Hiding behind a no-profile username?

No way in hell would you get my vote.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[davelepka 4]

What are you trying to do? So far you all have said is that you're thinking about starting an organization, but you haven't said what you intend this organization to do.

It's like a person decalring they're running for mayor by saying, "I'm going to run against Mayor McCheese this coming November, will you vote for me?". The obvious question is what is their position on the issues at hand.

OK, we understand you want to start an organization, now tell us what you see this organization doing, and how it will benefit professional skydiver, and THEN we'll tell you if we're interested.

[tsalnukt 1]

Why do people get all up tight about posting anonymously???? who cares!!!! Its' supposed to be a discussion. Who cares who said it.

[jimjumper 25]

Because as Professional's when we state an opinion or position in an open forum it's important that we stand behind what we say and have the credibility to back it up.

[skydived19006 4]

I don't think that it's necessary.

I don't personally think that $20 is adequate compensation for a tandem instructor, so I pay double that. If an instructor in unsatisfied being paid $20 in Hawaii, then it's time to move on. Same answer for most issues a professional skydiver may have. Voice your thoughts, if nothing changes, move on. Theoretically the DZO would either change his ways, or go out of business if all instructors employed this theory.

Then again, DZOs should all tell Skyride to go pound sand, and it would die a silent death as well. Maybe DZOs should have an organization?!? That one made me laugh!

Martin

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[AggieDave 6]

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Maybe DZOs should have an organization?!?

They do. Its called the USPA.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[skydived19006 4]

Quote

Quote

Maybe DZOs should have an organization?!?

They do. Its called the USPA.

Well hell, maybe they could do something about Skyride! Maybe just kick the boys out of our club?

That was rhetorical for anyone thinking that they need to tell me "the story."

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

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Why do people get all up tight about posting anonymously???? who cares!!!! Its' supposed to be a discussion. Who cares who said it.

Because some people have hidden motives and agendas.

Other people are just idiots.

I don't know if you do/are or don't/aren't.

But without knowing anything about you (and yes, profiles aren't always true), it's hard to rule it out.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[jlmiracle 7]

I already pay the USPA too much.
Would this organization be non profit?
Would it be free?

As with any job anywhere, in any industry, if you don't like the pay, go get a different job. If you don't like the company you work for, go get a different job.

It is well know that if you try to make a living skydiving, you should be prepared to live below the poverty line. That is not the case for all, but many.

J

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[riggerrob 558]

" ... It is well know that if you try to make a living skydiving, you should be prepared to live below the poverty line. ..."

.....................................................................

Tell that to students who are trusting you with their lives.

[tkhayes 126]

I would try and define some objectives of the organization first. Not just whether or not you want an 'organization'. Obviously somewhere you have a 'why'. Does that 'why' jive with others?

If it does, then you will probably succeed at getting it off the ground. If not, then you start an organization that has no clear defined objectives and everyone involved has (perhaps) different objectives. i.e. then the politics start with everyone's personal agendas, etc.

An Objective or goal must have 3 components to be successful
1. Definable
2. Attainable
3. Measurable

Google Vision or Mission Statements as well. You get some ideas
http://corporate.hallmark.com/Company/Hallmarks-Beliefs-And-Values

A good example of a mission statement and a vision for Hallmark cards. I know a lot of people think a lot of this stuff is a 'lot of fluff', and it may be in some cases, but a well defined objectives sets out some clear goals of your actions as an organization.

USPA, PIA, and even our own dropzone here at Skydive CIty can learn a lot from these sorts of things. While we may not have a published 'mission statement', I at least stay focused on high level objectives, (mostly customer satisfaction), to run the day-to-day business and I instill that in my staff all the time.

Start with an objective. It's OK to tweak it as you get rolling. But your original post has absolutely NO INTEREST to me because there is not a single goal attached to it.

[skybytch 259]

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" ... It is well know that if you try to make a living skydiving, you should be prepared to live below the poverty line. ..."

.....................................................................

Tell that to students who are trusting you with their lives.

What does pay rate have to do with the student's impression of whether someone is trustable or not?

And personally, I'd rather my students trust and rely on themselves to save their own lives instead of putting all their trust in me. This ain't no amusement park ride and they signed the waiver too...

[riggerrob 558]

How about a mission statement that includes:

1. improving working conditions for skydiving professionals in terms of:
a) wages
b) predictable duty time and days off
c) medical benefits
d) pension options
e) mutual support of wind limits, USPA, FARs, etc.
f) confidential reporting of DZs that do not pay fairly, do not honor contracts, etc.
g) shared data base of earning expectations at different DZs (IOW Will I be able to make a living working at DZ "X" during months "Y and Z?")

We can assign numerical goals (okay $$$) at a later date.

Membership should be limited to instructors in good standing with USPA, CSPA, BPA, APF, UPT, Srong Enterprises, etc.
We might have to establish a separate rating system for videographers. Maybe have videographers submit samples of their portfolios to earn "A", "B" , etc. ratings.

[tkhayes 126]

that's actually not a bad start for objectives from what I see.

[jlmiracle 7]

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" ... It is well know that if you try to make a living skydiving, you should be prepared to live below the poverty line. ..."

.....................................................................

Tell that to students who are trusting you with their lives.

I do, and don't have a problem with it, since I don't rely on any skydiving income for housing, food, transportation, health insurance, etc. I think they need to be more concerned with the guy that "has" to make a buck off them for shelter, food, transportation, etc., but that's just my opinion.

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[riggerrob 558]

IOW, a professional skydivers association should write a set of global "best practices" and hold DZOs to a "global" standard.
This would help curb some of the worst local excesses/peculiar local policies.
Establishing global best practices was not practical - in the past - because the world is complex and few people understood, much less were willing to state publicly, the origins of many peculiar local policies. For example, the peculiar British practice of sending up hydrogen balloons as wind drift indicators dates back to flying circus day traditions from the 1920s.

We could never set one "global best practice" but rather a series of "best practices" based upon what has worked well at similar-sized DZs in other countries.
This has worked well in other aspects of aviation. For example, much as Transport Canada would like to set "the highest standards ..." they are forced - by a global economy - to adjust Canadian standards to match the rest of the aviation world. This is done partly because of the fiercely competitive nature of aviation and partly to avoid confusing visiting pilots.

... Now if we could just convince Transport Canada to adopt American "best practices" vis a vis seat belts for skydivers. ...

Using the internet would also help us establish global "best practices" for one-Cessna, two-Cessna, Porter, etc. sized DZs.

Try to think of a professional skydivers' association using the internet to "average out" best practices.

[proskydiverorg 0]

I agree with you, however its not like most careers when you just go down the road and get another job. Most likely you will have to relocate.

[proskydiverorg 0]

This is an excellent post! I keep saying this is a group effort. I could not do it by myself. More posts like this would be nice. To tell you the truth it would be beter if someone else took my idea and ran with it. If there is enough interest I will ask for volunteers to help with organizing this undertaking.

[riggerrob 558]

Yes, relocation - in search of a better boss - is a bitch!

Over the years I have relocated from Germany to Ottawa, to Fort Erie, to Long Island, to Alberta, to Illinois, to San Francisco, to Southern California, to Washington, etc.
My last relocation was a decade ago and it landed me in British Columbia.