Main deployment 'muscle memory'

[Geoff 0]

We've seen a couple of mentions of this recently.
Many of us, especially if we have an AAD, plan to go for the reserve handle if we find ourselves below some height (2000 or 1500 ft) with nothing out.
But the theory is that we've all had much more practice at pulling the main, so people tend to pull the main even if they planned to pull the reserve.
I have a friend who had to exit an aircraft at 800ft in an emergency. She pulled silver, but it's probably easier when you know you're exiting low rather than suddenly discovering you're low.
Has ANYBODY accidentally found themselves low (after a normal exit height), and then actually pulled silver?
Just interested.
Geoff

[rmcvey 0]

i can relate to this....
i started my training on static line progression and my malfunction drills were this...
Feel (both hands on pad)
Peel
Pull!!
Feel
Punch (both hands on Silver)
Arch
Pray
Then i converted to Aff after a few months of practising this emergency drill. my AFF instructer suggested trying the one hand per handle method while in the hanging harness.
as soon as he shouted MALFUNCTION both hands went for the cutaway kinda Subconsiously
I said sorry and tried agian
MALFUNCTion
and AGAIN both my hands went to cutaway!!
He obviouslly told me to stick with this method as it is a built in reaction!!!
BS

[riggerrob 563]

2 points
First, it will take rmcvey hundreds of ground practices to reprogram his arm muscles.
If his old habits will keep him alive under his new gear, it is simpler to stick with old habits.
Secondly, most jumpers forget the best possible time to develop muscle memory for reserve pulls. Every time your reserve comes due for repack, pull all the handles in the correct sequence while a rigger watches.

[Zennie 0]

Quote

Every time your reserve comes due for repack, pull all the handles in the correct sequence while a rigger watches.

I do this on every reserve repack. You can also do it at home. Just put the reserve/container/freebag in a big plastic bag and make sure to leave a little hole to allow moisture to escape. Leave it in a cool dark place until it's time to take it to your rigger.
And don't forget to include your handles! (My rigger told me this was the most frequently forgotten item).
"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

[billvon 2,476]

>Secondly, most jumpers forget the best possible time to develop muscle
> memory for reserve pulls.
Another very good time is in freefall. Sometime when you're doing a solo, practice pulling your reserve (keep your hand open and just touch it, of course.) You may find it's not where you expect. Also, it sounds dumb, but think about getting low before you touch your reserve. It gives you at least limited experience with thinking about low altitude and going for the reserve.
-bill von

[freeflir29 0]

Yep...I saw a video last year of a demo jump gone wrong. It was a US Army Silver Wings demo. 4 Way breaks....Dude has a bag lock which he immediately cuts away. He spends the rest of his life "Patting" the reserve handle. He just never actually grabbed it to pull. Over and over again he kept putting his open hand right on top of the handle...... The impact was pretty nasty! So, feel free to practice often. I do before I get out of the plane....every time.....
"and I'm not easily impressed...Ooohh look...a blue car!" -Homer Simpson

[GrumpySmurf 0]

Call me stupid, but why does the word CYPRES come to mind in this situation?

[GrumpySmurf 0]

I can relate exactly :)
Went through an IAD program with the FJC being taught by a former sergeant from the now-defunct Canadian Airborne Regiment. He had us in the harness, yelling at us, having us yell and go 'Look Reach Pull, Look Reach Pull'. You should have heard the clanging of Reserve rings on the pavement that day. *heh*

[freeflir29 0]

"why does the word CYPRES come to mind in this situation?"
It would have saved his life.......
"and I'm not easily impressed...Ooohh look...a blue car!" -Homer Simpson

[RemiAndKaren 0]

Quote

It would have saved his life

Puling his reserve also would have.
Remi
Muff 914

[skreamer 1]

I agree with Remi, that guy would most probably be alive today if he had pulled his reserve handle - end of story. (I can sort of see why skydivers who aren't *cypres enabled* get so pissed off at some of the patronizing attitudes towards those who aren't blessed with cypres - Classic example being "But don't you value your life at more than $1100???"). I know quite a few skydivers who can afford a cypres but prefer not to have one - their life, their gear, their decision.
Will

[RemiAndKaren 0]

Will: are we becoming Cypres Nazis????
Remi
Muff 914

[dove 0]

I read an incident report in an older Parachutist (about 10 years ago?) where there was an aircraft emergency around 1,000 feet and a jumper exited and only pulled his cutaway. When you review your safety procedures, review every possible scenario you can think of!!!!!
dove

[E150 0]

Nice one.
I did a solo last weekend. I spent the whole freefall doing dummy pulls & reserve dummy pulls. . . . (new kit).
It's a good idea.

[skreamer 1]

lol
You want CyN#1, I'll take CyN#2? (seeing as CN#1 and CN#2 are already taken)?

[Geoff 0]

Still no responses to my original question:
Has anybody here, or anybody you know, ever lost altitude awareness, then found they were under 1500 feet - thought 'oh shit', and then actually pulled the reserve instead of the main.
We all say we will, but can anybody cite a single instance of someone actually doing this?
The lack of responses so far (and the fact that we all know cases of low main pull - cypres fire - two out) seems to support the 'muscle memory' theory.
Geoff

[indyz 1]

Didn't 3flier say that this exact thing happened to him? He posted a pretty long message about it, then went back and deleted it not much later, so it isn't in the archive, but if I recall the story correctly: He was at 4500, then the next thing he knew, he was way low and feeling the ground rush. He thought "go reserve," but at the same time, threw out his main without thinking about it. The cypres fired, and he had two out.
--
Brian
"The sky is lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I pull"

[skymedic 0]

I have three friends who were below 1200 feet doing a three way...all tracked short dumped there main and all two out of three had cypres fires....the other didnt have a cypres....I know my training is go for the silver(or pad in my case) but I have a feeling I will go with the main.....
Marc
Res Firma Mitescere Nescite

[Jessica 0]

Quote

I have a friend who had to exit an aircraft at 800ft in an emergency. She pulled silver, but it's probably easier when you know you're exiting low rather than suddenly discovering you're low.

Yeah...but when you're exiting that low, you ideally have your fingers already hooked around the reserve ripcord handle before you even leave the plane, right?
I've been thinking hard about this...and I think I'd probably go right for the main if I found myself low, too. Not on purpose, necessarily...but I just would.
Pet me! I'm harmless and cute!

[GrumpySmurf 0]

You mean there are people who can afford a CYPRES and not buy one??? *blink blink* I guess I always saw an AAD like ABS on a car - you should never need it, but when you do need it, you'll be glad you had it. *shrug* Was jumping with a friend of mine last weekend and got her to do a pin check, she was still using the student Javelin rentals and used to the student config for the CYPRES (under the reserve flap) - so didn't see mine and flipped, "You don't have a CYPRES?!?!". Oh well, not meaning to start a Holy War with the CYPRES comment earlier, sorry.

[Aviatrr 0]

Quote

Will: are we becoming Cypres Nazis????

In this case, I'd call you guys realists..
Mike

[3fLiEr 0]

I never thought go for reserve - When i saw the ground rush I automatically dumped my main - no thought about it - i just did it.......... anyone in that situation that dumps there reserve is one switched on guy............... its so different then getting out at 800 coz its your plan to dump your reserve - at the end of the skydive you dump your main - its your plan.......... 99.99% of people I reckon who find themselves as low as i was (800 / 700 ft at terminal) will dump their main.................. its natural reaction!...........
Oh and if you do find yourself that low - enjoy the ground rush - its intense!!!............. ;op
bsbd

"In a world where we are slaves to gravity I am pleased to be a freedom fighter"

[steve1 5]

I pulled once at 700 or 800 ft. and got canopy at 500. I was the last one into a star and no one was watching their altimeters. I'd thrown my rig together to make the load and had joked that I didn't know if it would work. There was this huge number on the run way coming up to get me. Of course I went for my main. (muscle memory in action) Luckily I had a nice fast opening on my paracommander or I probably wouldn't be here. There were automatic openers back then but almost noone used them. I talked to one guy at Ft. Bragg who was using an automatic opener back in the 70's. He was in the middle of a back loop when it fired. When he got on the ground he ripped it off his rig and threw it as far as he could off in the bushes.

[E150 0]

I don't get that. If you were an AAD, you know what it does! So why be mad when it does it's job properly????

[RemiAndKaren 0]

Jo: I think his point was that he was no where near the "dialed" activation altitude.
Remi
Muff 914