Newly Rated T/M

[OnYourBack 0]

"even with all the straps tightened down as much as they'll go (the students even help me tighten them more than I could myself)"

I used to do this in the beginning but was told and I now believe that over tightening straps makes it difficult or even impossible for the student to arch properly even if they want to. I wouldn't say leave them loose but I do like a little play between me and the student. Also if I need to shift them under me I use their hips as opposed to under the arms. Just my opinion.

[jrcrackers 0]

we are still operating, it's just not as convienient as it once was. we operate out of the county airport and land at a large field just south of it. it is actually 3 miles west of kapowsin airfield. It takes longer to make a jump but it's worth it.

[AggieDave 6]

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I wouldn't say leave them loose but I do like a little play between me and the student.

Ever have a sidespin? They can happen no matter what you do, no matter how big of a jumpsuit and how well you arch on exit, there are a few things that a student can do to put you there. Loose laterals will only make a sidespin worst.

I feel like its not the laterals that screw up a student's arch, its the rest of the harness and they will be able to arch well (if the rest of the harness is setup correctly) even if you have the laterals as tight as you can make them. It took me a while to get it just right and even still, I'll sometimes misjudge and get the harness adjustments off a slight bit, making it a little harder for the student to arch, but I know they're secure to me and they're secure in their harness.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[raff 4]

You will encounter all types and can only prepare yourself as best you are able. But, for goodness sakes, don't cause problems yourself. Every week I work with beginning TIs who insist on doing aerobatic (please read unstable) exits either, because they were asked to by the students, or on their own. I would give you two guidelines:

1. Don't do unstable exits until you are a TI who absloutely cannot be funneled by a student.

2. You will never be the abovementioned TI.

raff - 7000 tandems and learning something new every day

If you leave the plane without a parachute, you will be fine for the rest of your life.

[SCR10480 0]

Thank you Raff,
I didn't even like having to do the required unstable exit...of course, I had a VERY experienced skydiver (AFF Instructor) on front. We did a single front loop, then stable as feather. I certainly wouldn't do it on purpose for a student.
The humility that you, and the other TI's on here have shown me, makes me feel really good. I don't expect to be perfect, just good enough. One of the things I have going for me, is that I take this very serious. Going with someone on their very first skydive, should be taken seriously.

I wonder though...why don't first time jumpers have to buy Beer?!

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[tetra316 0]

As far as using the students hips to move them up instead of their arms I'll have to try that. It would keep your hands farther away from them.

But I'm definitely keeping the laterals tight. I watched a video of myself when I wasn't tightening them as much and you can really see the seperation between the student and myself and it was causing us to spin and potatoe chip. Saw another video when I was really tightening them down and it looks much clean and was much easier to fly. But that's just what seems to work for me.

[slotperfect 7]

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there is a concern of doing anything with your hands or arms that could allow the student to trap them.

I adjust my students sometimes as well, to get them centered below me. I simply put my hands on the back of their shoulders, puch down, and move them to the center. My hands are not any where near getting trapped that way.

Arrive Safely

John

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I, on the other hand, find that moving them by the hips best centers them under me if they ever get caddywompus.

[John4455 0]

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caddywompus.

I like that. Mind if I use it?

How do ya like it Johnny?

[murps2000 86]

I know everyone says you should fly your body and not worry about messing with your student, and I agree with that. But if you're ever in a side spin, and I mean a real one, you won't be able to fly your way out of it. I'm sure you've seen the video, but I feel I should reaffirm what Bill Morrisey says: Recognition, and corrective action needs to be immediate.

I've seen and met TI's with a lot of experience, and they seem able to fly stable to drogue toss no matter what their students do. They're able to avoid the situation completely, and that's really the best way to deal with side-spins. But if you ever get into a bad one, there will come a point where flying won't help, and you've got to man handle your cargo. Even that won't help after a few revolutions, because the forces that develop are considerable, and they develop fast. You won't be able to make your student arch no matter how hard you try. After that you've got to start pulling handles, and you won't like it.

Sorry to sound dismal, because tandems can be very rewarding. Good luck, and congratulations on the rating.

[douwanto 22]

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caddywompus.

Theres nothing better than a redneck TI.

When you have a malfunction be sure you extract the cutaway handle all the way before you fire the reserve

My worst problems have been on landing with people who could not or would not get their legs up. With the sigma harness this is a thing of the past.
Always do the right thing. never over estimate you or under estimate them or the situation.
The pretty LITTLE girls are lots of fun but they will get you in trouble quicker than any other passenger.
React now there is know time to waste.
From the time you meet your student to the time they walk away safely, have a routine. always do it , always do it, always do it, always do it! The SAME.
When things arent right you will know and will be prepared.
Dont worry about being cool cause if you werent cool before, being a TI wont make you so.

Always be safe and welcome to to our side of the fence.

Uncle/GrandPapa Whit
Unico Rodriguez # 245
Muff Brother # 2421

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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When you have a malfunction be sure you extract the cutaway handle all the way before you fire the reserve

Huh? Are you referring to the total/drogue-in-tow that I had? Sorry, bro, but there was no pulling that cutaway handle in that situation. It was firmly jammed in place by the third (drogue cutaway) cable. No amount of force I was able to apply did anything to un-fuck that situation. Since you gave the "angry" face, I am assuming you think I fucked up; such is not the case.

Oh, and who are you calling Redneck, Redneck?

Chuck

[jrcrackers 0]

which system do you use?

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I own a Racer tandem and that's the rig that I had my incident under a few months ago. It's discussed in the "who many tandem cutaways" thread.

[sabr190 0]

I didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if this is a repeat.

NEVER show fear or apprehension, your student will pick-up on it and feed off of it like a hungry gator.

"The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, or the one" - rehmwa

[SCR10480 0]

I didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if this is a repeat.

NEVER show fear or apprehension, your student will pick-up on it and feed off of it like a hungry gator.
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No need for apologies...in fact, you are the first to approach this specific area. Thank you.

As one may expect, my comfort level directly translates to my student's enjoyment. And, their enjoyment is my job...I want them to come back, or at least tell their friends.

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[SCR10480 0]

No amount of force I was able to apply did anything to un-fuck that situation. Since you gave the "angry" face, I am assuming you think I fucked up; such is not the case.
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This is what I'm asking about. Thank you so much for sharing this. But now, I must ask the specifics of your drogue in tow 'function.

Obviously you deployed your reserve. But what type of packing/equipment error was at fault to cause such an emergency?

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[SCR10480 0]

it does not matter how many time you tell them to do this or not do that, the second they are off the plane it is the fight or flight mode and some just do not remember any of what they have been told.
Kirk
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Right you are...thanks Kirk.

We give a very good ground prep before we jump. But, as you said: "The second they are off the plane" everything they "know" is literally out the door!

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[douwanto 22]

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When you have a malfunction be sure you extract the cutaway handle all the way before you fire the reserve

Since you gave the "angry" face, I am assuming you think I fucked up; such is not the case.

Oh, and who are you calling Redneck, Redneck?

Not at all I was refering to my first cutaway in which I cutaway only to realize I hadnt completly cutaway before firing the reserve..
Sorry for the confusion.

Hell yea I am a redneck yeeeeeaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaooooooooooooowwwww





Chuck

Uncle/GrandPapa Whit
Unico Rodriguez # 245
Muff Brother # 2421

[jrcrackers 0]

I'm alittle confused as I don't know the racer tandem rig (never seen one). was the system routed properly??

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

If you find the other thread, I think I even posted pictures. Bottom line was that it was a mixture of me laying the drogue attachment in the tray folded over on itself, and that the free-floating ring webbing was too long, allowing the force of the drogue throw to be loaded onto the "small" side of the middle ring. All three cable pulled through the grommets, locking the system; it was ugly. JumpShack fixed me up lickity-split and had my rig back to me in a week. It really is a great rig; I just had it packed in a way that allowed such a thing to become an issue.

[skydiverek 55]

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Sorry, bro, but there was no pulling that cutaway handle in that situation. It was firmly jammed in place by the third (drogue cutaway) cable. No amount of force I was able to apply did anything to un-fuck that situation.

I found an interesting comment from Bill Booth on the third cutaway cable:

"Well over 90% of all reserve uses on a Vector Tandem follow a cutaway. On the Sigma it's closer to 99.9%. So you really want to be sure that your canopy release system is as reliable as possible, don't you. When you add a third (drogue release) cable to the cutaway handle, you, at best, increase the force necessary to cutaway. (Due to increased housing friction) And at worst, you lower the reliability of your cutaway system. (If that third cable jams for any reason, you can't cutaway at all.) Increased complexity almost always leads to more malfunctions, and these three cable systems prove that point quite well. That's why Relative Workshop won't put a three cable system on any of our tandem rigs."

Source: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=428014#428014

[riggerrob 558]

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Sorry, bro, but there was no pulling that cutaway handle in that situation. It was firmly jammed in place by the third (drogue cutaway) cable. No amount of force I was able to apply did anything to un-fuck that situation.

I found an interesting comment from Bill Booth on the third cutaway cable:

"Well over 90% of all reserve uses on a Vector Tandem follow a cutaway. On the Sigma it's closer to 99.9%. So you really want to be sure that your canopy release system is as reliable as possible, don't you. When you add a third (drogue release) cable to the cutaway handle, you, at best, increase the force necessary to cutaway. (Due to increased housing friction) And at worst, you lower the reliability of your cutaway system. (If that third cable jams for any reason, you can't cutaway at all.) Increased complexity almost always leads to more malfunctions, and these three cable systems prove that point quite well. That's why Relative Workshop won't put a three cable system on any of our tandem rigs."

Source: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=428014#428014

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

As usual, Bill Booth gives sound advice.
The flip side of that debate is that 1/3 of dead TIs pulled handles out of sequence.

[skydiverjerry 0]

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A good point - but who's to say they are not going to grab your hands when you are using your arms to fly,

had the sh##@ scared out of me last weekend, ofter over 1000 tandems student grabed my hands on opening! got lazy for just one second!!! moral never take your mind of the job.

one more point there is a point at wich the ride is over, 5500 or 9500 if it dont feel good open expierience will come in time,

congrats mate on your tm rating

life is a journey not to arrive at the grave in a pristine condition but to skid in sideways kicking and screaming, shouting "fuck me what a ride!.

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[tdog 0]

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The pretty LITTLE girls are lots of fun but they will get you in trouble quicker than any other passenger.

I clearly walked into the wrong room here with my experience level... But the discussion was interesting so I decided to eavesdrop and learn something along the way...

If I was asked, I would have thought the bigger (and flatter) long arm/leg students with a lot of mass would be harder to control - as they have more surface area to catch air in all the wrong ways.

Why is it the LITTLE people that take you for a ride?

If someone has the time, just PM me or post something... While I will not be a TI for a long time (if ever), I like learning new things...