DB Cooper

[JerryThomas 0]

Geoger, Sluggo, Bruce, Sky whuffo, I've read all the posts and making a lists of questions that you want answered. Most answers I know There is one I'm not sure of so I will confirm all my answer's with Ralph this weekend. Jerry

[BruceSmith 3]

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Geoger, Sluggo, Bruce, Sky whuffo, I've read all the posts and making a lists of questions that you want answered. Most answers I know There is one I'm not sure of so I will confirm all my answer's with Ralph this weekend. Jerry

Jerry could you ask Ralph if he ever interviewed Tina, and if not, why not?

Galen says that he asked Ralph if he had, and was surprised to hear that Ralph has never spoken with Tina.

It's funny, Ralph won't talk with me, and Galen is banned from the forum, so we's a bunch of yentas here trying to match up statements!

Thanks, and if you could ask Ralph if he would ever consent to some degree of communication with me, I'd be truly grateful.

[frappehatter 0]

interesting that cooper donned the rig so early. to me that indicates that he may have been intending to jump very soon after takeoff.

[SKYWHUFFO 0]

Thanks Jerry!

[BruceSmith 3]

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interesting that cooper donned the rig so early. to me that indicates that he may have been intending to jump very soon after takeoff.

This might be another CAVA question. It is certainly a topic that shows cultural inclinations as to how people interpret Cooper's actions.

Most say the early donning of the parachute and the desire to leave Sea-Tac with the aft stairs deployed, means that Cooper wanted to land near Seattle or Tacoma, and hence, was probably from the area.

That could be true. But I feel that Cooper knew time was not his friend, and that he would be increasingly vulnerable as time elapsed, both in the air and when he got to the ground, as the feds became further organized, deploying greater and greater resources over a wider area through the night.

It could also mean that he didn't trust the pilots, who might disregard his instructions to only fly at 10K and no faster than 180 K. Hence he might have wanted to jump ASAP so that he would be able to do his getaway under the most favorable conditions.

To me, Danny Boy was both savvy and quirky. He could have put his parachute on straight away because he was anxious.

[quade 3]

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Jo you are welcome to participte but no more babbling about the FBI, and discuss the topic NOT WEBER!

She's welcome to say anything she likes as long as she abides by "the rules."

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I feel i can ask for this for a couple of reasons, I am one of the few jumpers (on a jumpers forum) in this discussion, I have been on this forum since 2003, and one of only two people in this forum (377 being the other) who can say they have experienced what Cooper felt by jumping out of a Jet.

And that's where you'd be wrong on a couple of points. You're not "in charge" of this forum. Your body count on jet jumpers is low.

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My patience are wearing thin just like others here with the diversions caused by rants, the attacks, then whining, it's the same everytime and i am about to unleash and type what i really want to say, and quade will probably give me a TO.

That last part is correct.

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So can we get back to the discussion and not rants?

Everybody says this. I say lead by example. If you don't want to engage Jo, then simply don't. If NOBODY on this forum ever responded to her, the issue most of you have with her would simply vanish.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[georger 197]

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interesting that cooper donned the rig so early. to me that indicates that he may have been intending to jump very soon after takeoff.

That's what Ckret expressed here.

It would seem to put a dent in flying to Mexico
City with a long ride with chute on, sitting on what?
Funny.

He either wanted to bail in the area or just wanted
to escape asap, or both.

But there is something in this that bothers me
from a tactical point of view - with the chute on
he's not exactly unemcumbered, free to move
easily while also still on the ground. If he's waddling
around inside the confines of the plane still on the ground with chute on, well he's an easy target
tactically. If Hancock had been an agent very
likely this would have ended there... so what he
did isnt exactly tactically smart ? That seems to indicate someone not too smart or obsessed with
escaping capture ... so you put on a chute so you
have less maneuverability with no place to bail so you can be subdued more easily - one shot.

I guess he was relying on his bomb to keep unwelcome guests away - as much as he could
see or recognise or hear them coming?

Jerry may have some thoughts on this - he's been
there, done that.

Did he think there was less chance of him getting
the chute on in the air than on the ground?

Did he donn the chute onder ground to see if
it fit, was comfortable, and pleased himself?

do you see where this leads ... questions..

[skyjack71 0]

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Galen says that he asked Ralph if he had, and was surprised to hear that Ralph has never spoken with Tina.

Ralph H told me the same thing that he had never interviewed Tina.


Recent uncalled for events:

1. I corrected Sluggo regarding the Ticket agent versus the Gate agent and my material WAS correct. Some individuals do not take kindly to be corrected about anything. All I did was quote Fact vesus Myth.

2. It was after that when Sluggo retorted with information about a call between the FBI and myself.
The question I called the FBI was to verify a story about someone being approached at the river about some items that were never returned to the passenger.

3. Carr called me - and I preferred NOT to talk to him because he has proven himself unreliable in the exhanges of information in the past.

4. Carr calls Sluggo about what I discussed with him (private FBI business).

5. Sluggo posts about the content of the conversation which was greatly expanded on by either Carr or Sluggo and yet, I was called mean. Gimme a break!

6. Yes, I then called in a complaint to Ray Laurer's office.
This complaint was warranted. Discussions made by phone to an FBI agent are not for the public domain.

It has also been noted that no one was able to listen to the tape that vindicated me regarding all of the attacks and taunting done by another party in this thread. This party spent over a yr taunting me and calling me a liar - his treatment of me was CRUEL and unrelenting. I stayed and I fought just as I have fought for the Truth since day one.

Sadly no one wants the truth - they want the legend and something to debate till the end of time....and that is sad because only one person in here besides myself accually has a clue to what is really going on.

They are NOT the negative stuff you guys post about me. These are real questions and real people who really want answers. I hope I can survive what lies ahead of me...and that the truth will prevail. It won't be in this forum.

If you really think about a lot of things I have just said above you should be able to see clearly that 3 of the posters NEED to control what is being said and to diffuse when necessary. They have to be in control and to create mayhem as much as possible...

DO NOT respond to this post accept thur my private email address which is: [email protected].

Bruce: Talk about mind control! 3 of the posters must have been employed there.......

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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Jo, consider the waste of time and money you have caused by lodging a formal complaint with the FBI about Ckret's conduct. All misconduct complaints have to be investigated, even baseless vindictive ones like your. That was just downright MEAN.

377

What was inappropiate was Sluggo posting FBI business on the forum (a conversation between a private citizen and an FBI agent). I would not know what Carr said to Sluggo if Sluggo had not posted it...so please put the blame were it belongs.


Regarding the packing card - I am not sure that Tina actually knew what it was and they mentioned this later. She was told to hand him a card ...her handing this to him may have been the FBI's test of Coopers skill level...and just encase he took Tina with him. They were in a quandry regarding Cooper asking for 2 backs and 2 fronts.

I also heard the version that 377 posted as per Tosaw's book.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 197]

Regarding the packing card - I am not sure that Tina actually knew what it was and they mentioned this later. She was told to hand him a card ...her handing this to him may have been the FBI's test of Coopers skill level...and just encase he took Tina with him. They were in a quandry regarding Cooper asking for 2 backs and 2 fronts.
reply]

So they were testing Cooper's skills to retrieve a
card out of a hand? The ADR-VOC test.
And if he bails with Tina they can look for the
card in Mexico City or in the metal box you directed people to in Duane's dog's grave in your back yard?

[BruceSmith 3]

georger:

Galen has asked me to let you know he has a message for you on Sluggo's forum.

Oi vey, yenta central here. (smile).

[Orange1 0]

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Also, the “terminology” Cooper used is lost to history. I’ve read reports that indicate he said “Flaps down,” “Flaps to 15-degrees,” “Flaps extended,” and Himmelsbach is quoted as saying “Cooper asked for the plane to be flown ‘dirty’”. That’s how I would expect Himmelsbach to express it, but I’m not sure he was quoting Cooper (in that case).

It needs a lot of digging and research (a possible CAVA).

I posted some time ago - if you read the transcripts from the plane, it is not clear whether Cooper actually asked for 15 deg, or whether he made a request that was interpreted that way by the pilot. My response to any CAVA on this would be that it was ambiguous.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 197]

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georger:

Galen has asked me to let you know he has a message for you on Sluggo's forum.

Oi vey, yenta central here. (smile).

Thanks Bruce - went over and made a few questions.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Galen has been leaving messages on my Blog site.

No one has shown any interest in my forum.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[JerryThomas 0]

Slugo after Quades post.Maybe now you will understand why I ask if you were still incharge of your site. May I sugest that the intire DropZone comunity move to your site. Then you can recieve there royalties for advertisement.Or at least be in compitition. and have some democracy. Jerry

[377 21]

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Regarding the packing card - I am not sure that Tina actually knew what it was and they mentioned this later. She was told to hand him a card ...her handing this to him may have been the FBI's test of Coopers skill level...

I think we are talking about two different "cards". The instructions Cossey's loft supplied along with the chutes is a different item than the riggers packing cards which carry no instructions, just a packing date and rigger signature. The riggers packing cards are concealed in very obscure pockets on rigs. They have only the serial number of the canopy, packing date and riggers signature and FAA lic number and once in a while notes about repairs, tests or mods.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 21]

I am corresponding with a long time 727 mechanic. Any systems questions? He is not a pilot but worked on 727s for many years.

I am also back in touch with the Vietnamese paratrooper, who had moved. I am going to get together with him sometime this spring and see what (if anything) he knew about the Air America 727 jumps etc. I am going to try to get his permission to video the interview. If you have questions post them.

I think Cooper KNEW a 727 could be jumped. Not many people knew that in 71, not even the 3 highly trained guys in the cockpit. If I am right, that really narrows the Cooper suspect field.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 197]

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Regarding the packing card - I am not sure that Tina actually knew what it was and they mentioned this later. She was told to hand him a card ...her handing this to him may have been the FBI's test of Coopers skill level...

I think we are talking about two different "cards". The instructions Cossey's loft supplied along with the chutes is a different item than the riggers packing cards which carry no instructions, just a packing date and rigger signature. The riggers packing cards are concealed in very obscure pockets on rigs. They have only the serial number of the canopy, packing date and riggers signature and FAA lic number and once in a while notes about repairs, tests or mods.

377

I think that's exactly right. Packing
"cards" vr.s "user instructions". Jo is mixed up
on the facts, again. It was "user instructions" for
Cossey's packed NB6 that Tina handed to Cooper,
not the packing CARDS. This was done for legal reasons to protect Cossey etal. It had nothing to do with 'testing' Cooper! Cooper rejected the user instructions Tina handed him saying he didnt need them; meanwhile the packer cards were in each chute not ever in Tina's hand ...

So we have CARDS vrs. INSTRUCTIONS and there
was only one instance of INSTRUCTIONS given to Cooper, namely Cossey's instructions specific to his specially packed NB6/8 which he later regretted
having given at all in lieu of a normal parachute.

Jerry has always made a good point here -

If Cooper had checked the packing CARD on the
one dummy chute he would have known it was
a dummy chute. My understanding is Tina never saw him look for or check any of the packing cards and none of the packing cards was found pulled out laying in the plane afterward. Of the two chutes left on the plane both packing cards were still in place ...

Here's a novel thought:

Did Cooper reject the user Instructions because they
were useless to him, and he could not read! ?

Do we have any clearcut instance of Cooper ever reading anything?

We have several instances of him rejecting written
material. We have the written placard torn off the
rear door, after Cooper specifically requested Tina
(a crew member) open that door for him. He looked
at (filed through) magazines (looking at pictures)?
Did Tina or anyone else see him spend time reading anything?

All communications with Cooper were verbal, so
far as I know?

He handed over a simple tersley written note of
instructions - was it printed or in cursive? (McCoy
also used a note) We have no proof Cooper even
wrote his note. He asked for it back.

When or where did anybody see Cooper write or
read anything other than signing a name at signin?

If Cooper has some kind of diminished capacity
that is revealed in his failure to read the packing
cards and dispensing with Cossey's NB6/8 written
instructions, that could have something to do with
his 'grudge', as a part of some broader condition.

???

[Orange1 0]

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Jerry has always made a good point here -

If Cooper had checked the packing CARD on the
one dummy chute he would have known it was
a dummy chute.

Yes, of course...

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

georger said:
If Cooper had checked the packing CARD on the one dummy chute he would have known it was a dummy chute.



Good point georger, but I have a little different take:

There were no D-rings on the NB-6 Harness. If Cooper attempted to use the “Training Dummy” he tied it to the harness. Both reserves were equally useless (EVEN IF he didn’t know one was a “dummy”).

So, my question is: How would things be different if Cooper knew (or did not know) one of the reserves was a “dummy”. By “things be different” I mean how would the evidence gathered after the flight be different.

I think the dummy chute went out of the plane just like the briefcase, paper sack (based on CAVA #1), and Cooper (with his money).

Anything I could say about whether or not Cooper knew it was a dummy would be pure speculation on my part. (Something that I have never been short of.)



PS: You guys getting better weather? It was 85-degrees yesterday and today here. I thought Spring was never going to coime.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[skyjack71 0]

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Jo is mixed up on the facts, again. It was "user instructions" for Cossey's packed NB6 that Tina handed to Cooper,
not the packing CARDS.

This is a part that never meant much to me - I just knew she supposedly hand something to him and he said "I don't need that ". What I know about chutes and jumping you could put in thimble.

Then is was stated in one of the books that he looked at the card with the chute - (I believe Tosaw's book). I felt this was literary licensing and perhaps not something that actually happened - only TINA know the truth about this. What doe the FOIA state in regards to this?

Fact - the Ticket agent was name Lynse
.
Fact - the Gate agent was Williams.

(William's story was inflated and changed at later dates - who knows if it is a real memory - perhaps he was "delusional" also, but maybe he was simply able to remember more facts after he played the day back in his mind. I do not question his memory - whatever it was it was.

Receive a nice letter today:

Verification that there ARE NO records kept on smokejumper trainees between 1943 - 1945, who did not make the cuts. Most of these trainees came from Civilian Public Service Groups.

My personal and verifiable addition:
These Civilian Public Service Groups also offered young men probationary work ...especially with healthy donations to the churches who supported the CPS.

The Balloon Bomb response was called Operation"Firefly",

Just some incidental trivia that is being expanded on.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 197]

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georger said:
If Cooper had checked the packing CARD on the one dummy chute he would have known it was a dummy chute.



Good point georger, but I have a little different take:

There were no D-rings on the NB-6 Harness. If Cooper attempted to use the “Training Dummy” he tied it to the harness. Both reserves were equally useless (EVEN IF he didn’t know one was a “dummy”).

So, my question is: How would things be different if Cooper knew (or did not know) one of the reserves was a “dummy”. By “things be different” I mean how would the evidence gathered after the flight be different.

I think the dummy chute went out of the plane just like the briefcase, paper sack (based on CAVA #1), and Cooper (with his money).

I dont know that anything would have been different from Cooper's standpoint, with no way to attach any
reserve. (He didnt stop things and say: 'you brought me a bunch of incompatable duds, brings on more
chutes, make sure they ARE compatable!')

Why would he expend any effort throwing the dud
out the door just for the sake of throwing it out
while leaving the others?

Ive always kind of wondered if he tied the dud around his butt ... as a seat cushion? of ass-encounter on the ground?

From an investigative angle how would the lack
of D-rings or Cooper's projected lack of compatability
response affect evidence gathering after the fact?

Hmm. They would use a shovel instead of a test tube? Just kidding. ... they would of course focus
on the cut lines knowing he had to tie things off.
They decide he didnt care so thought he was
going to die anyway, so is probably dead? They
decide he was an expert so it didnt matter? They
go to Eddie Bauer looking if he bought couplings
that were in the papier bag since he was expert
enough to anticipate just such a compatability
issue? They look for which leg was heavier than the other?

am I getting warm?

[quade 3]

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Slugo after Quades post.Maybe now you will understand why I ask if you were still incharge of your site. May I sugest that the intire DropZone comunity move to your site. Then you can recieve there royalties for advertisement.Or at least be in compitition. and have some democracy. Jerry

You guys are MORE THAN welcome to take the discussion elsewhere. It might solve numerous issues for all concerned.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[JerryThomas 0]

Quade Maybe your right give dopzone compition for advertisement. Maybe it could be better. Then drop zone would have to shut down. Your recomendation.May be the best way. Your thoughts. Jerry

[377 21]

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You guys are MORE THAN welcome to take the discussion elsewhere. It might solve numerous issues for all concerned.

Come on Quade, be nice. We've been pretty civil lately. Why make us feel so unwelcome on dropzone.com?

377
The World's Most Boeing Skydiver.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.