DB Cooper

[quade 3]

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Let Zing back....

I'm not inclined to restore the status of someone that attempts to get around the system by creating duplicate accounts. That's bullshit.

If he wants to participate, he can ask, but trying to get around a ban by doing something that is against the rules isn't the way to go about it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Orange1 0]

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Jo said:
Duane was never aware of the conversation Ed and I had. I was true to my word and did not tell Duane.

why would you have a secret conversation with Ed while Duane was alive, that involved a conversation about jumping? What was the context?

Snowmman: Why do I have to repeat this story and why is everything I say taken out of context?

This was not a "SECRET" conversation and it was not about "JUMPING". Ed was ill while we were in Denver and he asked Duane to come over and run an errand for him to get his medication.

I stayed with Ed while Duane went to the drug store. It was a general conversation. He asked me where I was from and "just stuff". Toward the end of this conversation I asked him how long he had known Duane and where he knew him from. Simpy ordinary questions just general conversation. I had never met Ed prior to that time.

He told me that he knew Duane from way back in WA, OR and ID. He mentioned Helicopters and planes - he was a pilot or mechanic. He also said something about Alaska and Vancouver. I told him I didn't know Duane had ever lived there.

He immediately stated - that he supposed Duane had never told me about that part of his life and he did not realize I did not know. He asked me not to mention this to Duane - I would suppose thinking Duane would be upset. I kept my word and did not mention it to Duane and over time I forgot about it. Ed was very adamant about my not sharing our conversation with Duane. What I have just said is all he said.

The conversation was interupted as Duane was back with the medication...the drug store was just on the corner of the block so what time I spent with Ed alone was about 15-20 minutes.

So, he probably knew of some criminal activity Duane had engaged in in that time and did not want Duane to know he had let the cat out the bag. Maybe he was scared of Duane's reaction..?? Whatever, it really doesn't add anything to Duane being Cooper. So Ed was a pilot or mechanic - so what?? But even from what you've said you clearly knew during the marriage there was stuff Duane wasn't telling you, stuff that necessitated Ed asking you to keep the conversation from Duane.


from another of Jo's posts:

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This is the man who accidentally leaked something about Duane's past, but the FBI has never seen fit to find out WHO this man was. The past of one Ed Huran (however it was spelled) will lead the FBI to the WA, OR and ID area and Duane's exposure to jumping - I know the time they knew each other from involved helicopters and planes. Definitely WA and OR and ID...something was even said about Alaska.

So explain how knowing a pilot or mechanic automatically implies exposure to jumping? Is this the "proof" that you have???????????

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

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Did he mention hiking with Duane? I've always wondered about that photograph, that appears to me to be hiking, with some mountains with spring/summer? snow on them.

What did Ed look like? Was he fit looking? How old was Ed then? What year was the conversation?

How did he fit helicopters, planes, and job description as pilot or mechanic all in that random 15 minute conversation? It doesn't make sense.

Geeze Snowman: it was not big deal - no details - I had NEVER met the man prior to that time. We were not alone very long at all and the man was sick.

The brief conversation about his knowing Duane from the past was very brief and my total time with a stranger was all of 15 or 20 minutes if that long. My primary focus was the heath of the man and what I could do to help him.

I know the picture you are talking about and the reason I posted it was to find out if someone knew where it was taken - I don't know. It was just something in his belonging...could be that the ex sent it to me -- my memory is failing me.

Duane was a strong man - but as for hiking (during the time I knew him that consisted or our visits to parks up into the foothills around Denver and Ft. Collins. We would go to places like Vail and Winter Park, CO. We walked a lot, but not as a sport or for exercise.

Duane was secretive - I knew little to nothing about his past...over 17 yrs somethings do come out, but usually our life was built on what we had together. I did not want to make the same kind of mistake my parents made - judging others by their past and their family.

The major problem with my parents is that they were judgemental - if you were not born in the right place and at the right time or to the right parents - you were Trash...there were young men who passed thru my life that I was NOT allowed to speak with much less date. Now DO YOU understand WHY I never dwell on the past of others...and I just let it be. When I was engaged to my 1st husband I wanted stop the marriage - I even tried to enlist but I was too young (you had to be 21 in 1960) - if I had been able to get money - I would have ran away.

When I met Duane - I DID NOT question his background. When my parents met him we had been married for several yrs. I never knew what my father thought of him.

I do know that a relative who met him during my parents 50th anniversary - went back to my home state and told someone that I had married Mafia. They had judged Duane by his tattoos and whatever others use to judge people (they did not know the man).

I make NO judgements - it is how that person makes me feel and how they treat me...I do not care if they are rich or poor or a disabled, educated or uneducated. If someone is meticulous in their appearance and surrounding, has pride in themselves, strives to do the best they can to improve themselves and understands perception of self - do NOT judge them by past mistakes.

We all have some prejudices and I have mine. As I have gotten older and the Cooper thing has taken away from the quality of my life and caused controversary - I have become judgemental regarding others and I no long withhold those judgements. I am old enough to show anger and to speak my piece. What I do not do is JUDGE someone by their past, but by their current actions.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

fair enough Jo.

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If someone is meticulous in their appearance and surrounding, has pride in themselves, strives to do the best they can to improve themselves and understands perception of self

Yeah, but if 100 million people are already like that, isn't the person who tacks in the other direction pretty cool too? There's no bragging rights in just being different, but then again there's no bragging rights in just being the same either.

[skyjack71 0]

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So explain how knowing a pilot or mechanic automatically implies exposure to jumping? Is this the "proof" that you have???????????

This man puts Duane in the area - WA, OR, ID and Alaska - in association with planes and helicopters - it may not mean jumping, but something else said might indicate this.

I have NEVER offered this as proof, but feel the proof lies within his relationship to this man and what they did. BUT the FBI doesn't care.They just keep waiting until the individuals have died off one by one. Makes you wonder if someone is not gathering information so they can make lots of money after all involved have deceased.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

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Makes you wonder if someone is not gathering information so they can make lots of money after all involved have deceased.

Yes the futures market in Cooperography is very good.
The year 2024: big money!
I run a private market on the side for this. Options available. No SEC regulation!

[skyjack71 0]

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fair enough Jo.

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If someone is meticulous in their appearance and surrounding, has pride in themselves, strives to do the best they can to improve themselves and understands perception of self

Yeah, but if 100 million people are already like that, isn't the person who tacks in the other direction pretty cool too? There's no bragging rights in just being different, but then again there's no bragging rights in just being the same either.

Snowmman: See what I mean you take everything I say apart...what this is saying is about me - and what make ME comfortable with a person. I like everything in it's place and there is a place for everything - neat and orderly (Hence a personal relationship with a disorderly person would never work). That is a personal preference NOT a judgement against that person.

Example: I detest what someone who is close to me has done to his family, but I judge him for what he is doing now and not the past.

Example: Someone I know is a sloppy house keeper - I will not judge the relationship on that, but I could not live with that person.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 197]

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Come Jo. You dont have to imagine, You know.
There many kinds of prisons. ...

G.

But on the bright side!:

To Althea. From Prison.

"Stone walls do not a prison make,
Nor iron bars a cage;
Minds innocent and quiet take
That for an hermitage;
If I have freedom in my love
And in my soul am free,
Angels alone, that soar above,
Enjoy such liberty."

Richard Lovelace, written in prison
(edit) or: "To DBC thread. From the banned Zing" :)

and:

No man is an island entire of itself
But a piece of the continent and A part of the maine.
If a clod be washed way by the sea Europe is the less
As well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were
Every man's death diminishes me because I am involved in Mankind.
Therefore, Never send to know for whom the bell tolls.
The bell toll for thee.

(robt dunne from memory)

[georger 197]

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Jo said:
Duane was never aware of the conversation Ed and I had. I was true to my word and did not tell Duane.

why would you have a secret conversation with Ed while Duane was alive, that involved a conversation about jumping? What was the context?

Snowmman: Why do I have to repeat this story and why is everything I say taken out of context?

This was not a "SECRET" conversation and it was not about "JUMPING". Ed was ill while we were in Denver and he asked Duane to come over and run an errand for him to get his medication.

I stayed with Ed while Duane went to the drug store. It was a general conversation. He asked me where I was from and "just stuff". Toward the end of this conversation I asked him how long he had known Duane and where he knew him from. Simpy ordinary questions just general conversation. I had never met Ed prior to that time.

He told me that he knew Duane from way back in WA, OR and ID. He mentioned Helicopters and planes - he was a pilot or mechanic. He also said something about Alaska and Vancouver. I told him I didn't know Duane had ever lived there.

He immediately stated - that he supposed Duane had never told me about that part of his life and he did not realize I did not know. He asked me not to mention this to Duane - I would suppose thinking Duane would be upset. I kept my word and did not mention it to Duane and over time I forgot about it. Ed was very adamant about my not sharing our conversation with Duane. What I have just said is all he said.

The conversation was interupted as Duane was back with the medication...the drug store was just on the corner of the block so what time I spent with Ed alone was about 15-20 minutes.

Reply: Alas, now we have the Reluctant Hijacker,
and personal ID. thief. Cooper didn't mean to do it.
It was beyond his control. It was all an accident!
He gave all the money to charity and wrote Max
Gunther to arrange it. But kept a small wad he had
forgot, which he and Jo send down the Columbia
"wrapped in one rubber band Jo provided".

Makes sense.

[georger 197]

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Did he mention hiking with Duane? I've always wondered about that photograph, that appears to me to be hiking, with some mountains with spring/summer? snow on them.

What did Ed look like? Was he fit looking? How old was Ed then? What year was the conversation?

How did he fit helicopters, planes, and job description as pilot or mechanic all in that random 15 minute conversation? It doesn't make sense.

Geeze Snowman: it was not big deal - no details - I had NEVER met the man prior to that time. We were not alone very long at all and the man was sick.

The brief conversation about his knowing Duane from the past was very brief and my total time with a stranger was all of 15 or 20 minutes if that long. My primary focus was the heath of the man and what I could do to help him.

I know the picture you are talking about and the reason I posted it was to find out if someone knew where it was taken - I don't know. It was just something in his belonging...could be that the ex sent it to me -- my memory is failing me.

Duane was a strong man - but as for hiking (during the time I knew him that consisted or our visits to parks up into the foothills around Denver and Ft. Collins. We would go to places like Vail and Winter Park, CO. We walked a lot, but not as a sport or for exercise.

Duane was secretive - I knew little to nothing about his past...over 17 yrs somethings do come out, but usually our life was built on what we had together. I did not want to make the same kind of mistake my parents made - judging others by their past and their family.

The major problem with my parents is that they were judgemental - if you were not born in the right place and at the right time or to the right parents - you were Trash...there were young men who passed thru my life that I was NOT allowed to speak with much less date. Now DO YOU understand WHY I never dwell on the past of others...and I just let it be. When I was engaged to my 1st husband I wanted stop the marriage - I even tried to enlist but I was too young (you had to be 21 in 1960) - if I had been able to get money - I would have ran away.

When I met Duane - I DID NOT question his background. When my parents met him we had been married for several yrs. I never knew what my father thought of him.

I do know that a relative who met him during my parents 50th anniversary - went back to my home state and told someone that I had married Mafia. They had judged Duane by his tattoos and whatever others use to judge people (they did not know the man).

I make NO judgements - it is how that person makes me feel and how they treat me...I do not care if they are rich or poor or a disabled, educated or uneducated. If someone is meticulous in their appearance and surrounding, has pride in themselves, strives to do the best they can to improve themselves and understands perception of self - do NOT judge them by past mistakes.

We all have some prejudices and I have mine. As I have gotten older and the Cooper thing has taken away from the quality of my life and caused controversary - I have become judgemental regarding others and I no long withhold those judgements. I am old enough to show anger and to speak my piece. What I do not do is JUDGE someone by their past, but by their current actions.

Reply? Maybe Ed was Cooper. Ed stole John Collins
because he knew Duane had used it. Will the hotel
clerk confirm Ed as Collins? Then he confides to
Duane to warn him, time passes, Duane begins checking up on the Cooper case to see what its all about, then at the end luny from drugs and kidney
toxins Duane confesses HE is Cooper, to end it all
once and forever. ???

[snowmman 3]

What's the physical description of Ed?
did he have black hair, balding? Age?

Somehow I have the image of Ed Norton and Ralph Kramden stuck in my ed. I mean head.

[georger 197]

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What's the physical description of Ed?
did he have black hair, balding? Age?

Somehow I have the image of Ed Norton and Ralph Kramden stuck in my ed. I mean head.

I see him more like Eric the Red, in fur lined mukluks.
Liked knives and axes. Good at rowing.

[georger 197]

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What's the physical description of Ed?
did he have black hair, balding? Age?

Somehow I have the image of Ed Norton and Ralph Kramden stuck in my ed. I mean head.

woops. He has to look like Dan Cooper, the comic
book figure.

[snowmman 3]

This was actually a story in "The Shadow" series
The full text is available for free online now, but here's a summary taste below. (funny: I guess dirigible + parachute was the "new technology")

oh yeah, in the '30s they used to used the phrase "parachute leapers"
Google news link gives some good ideas of the times back then (newspaper wise)
http://news.google.com/archivesearch?ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&um=1&tab=wn&q=parachute+leapers
articles as far back as 1890s. example:

Female Aeronauts to Race. Aug 16, 1892 Wash. Post:
Miss E. C. Crawford, of this city, has challenged Miss Rosa May, of Peoria, Ill, the seronaut and parachute leaper, to a test of skill, $200 a side, ...

The Shadow:
http://www.spaceports.com/~deshadow/reviews/shadow026.html

026 "Murder Trail"
Vol. 5, No. 2
Published: 03/15/33
Submitted: 10/07/32 under the same title
Author: Walter Gibson

MURDER TRAIL was originally published in the March 15, 1933 issue of The Shadow Magazine.

It all starts aboard the inaugral flight of the great dirigible Munchen where Captain Heinrich von Werndorff secrets a secret German agent aboard the dirigible. There, in a secret room especially built between the bulkheads, Baron Hugo von Tollsburg waits as he begins his mission, to travel undetected from Germany to America.

But also aboard the dirigible is The Shadow. He has traveled in his guise as Henry Arnaud from Moscow to Friedrichshafen, where he was able to catch the derigible Munchen at the last minute. He recognizes that something sinister is going on, and as the flight finally flies above American soil, he discovers the secret room. Inside he finds the body of the baron; the secret agent has been murdered in his own secret room. The murderer has stolen the baron's papers and jumped from the dirigible in a parachute. He has escaped to somewhere in the Connecticut countryside.

[377 20]

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in the '30s they used to used the phrase "parachute leapers"

...and then we come along in the 60s and make it "sky lepers".

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 20]

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Let Zing back....

I'm not inclined to restore the status of someone that attempts to get around the system by creating duplicate accounts. That's bullshit.

If he wants to participate, he can ask, but trying to get around a ban by doing something that is against the rules isn't the way to go about it.

OK Zing, supplicate and return. Don't let pride keep you away.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 20]

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So explain how knowing a pilot or mechanic automatically implies exposure to jumping? Is this the "proof" that you have???????????

This man puts Duane in the area - WA, OR, ID and Alaska - in association with planes and helicopters - it may not mean jumping, but something else said might indicate this.

I have NEVER offered this as proof, but feel the proof lies within his relationship to this man and what they did. BUT the FBI doesn't care.They just keep waiting until the individuals have died off one by one. Makes you wonder if someone is not gathering information so they can make lots of money after all involved have deceased.

Jo,

Like Ckret or not, his career choices certainly do not indicate that money is his top priority. FBI SAs don't starve, but they make far less than their counterparts in industry and definitely face more risk.

Solving the Cooper case would be the pinnacle of ANY detective's career. It is way bigger than winning gold at the Olympics. NORJACK is the whodunnit of the 20th century, not just of the year 1971.

Ckret wants to solve this case as badly as you do, he just thinks their are potential solutions which do not involve Duane at all. You apparently don't. It isn't like the FBI ignored you, they did some investigation of Duane but found nothing promising which would justify further work. I am certain that if you come up with something SOLID linking Duane to Cooper they will take it seriously. So far, I haven't seen anything that rises to that level.

Nobody has positively ruled Duane out, but few other than you consider him a viable suspect. Gosset is a better match. McCoy would have been perfect, but he had an alibi that the FBI said was solid. Both men had jumped and had military training. You have yet to put Duane anywhere near a chute. The hardware you mentioned but could not find a match for might have established that link, but you have been unable to ID it despite seeing a lot of pix of just about everything metallic on a surplus rig.

I like having you on the forum. Your single minded pursuit of your goal despite attacks, meanness or adversity is something to see. The word undaunted comes to mind.

I just get unglue-oned when you imply that the FBI is suppressing evidence that links Duane to Cooper. That makes ZERO sense to me.

OK, I have calmed down now. Nurse, there is no need for the Thorazine, really. Just put that needle away please

377
rational night clerk to the masses

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[happythoughts 0]

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I am certain that if you come up with something SOLID linking Duane to Cooper they will take it seriously. So far, I haven't seen anything that rises to that level.

I am copying this to a text file so that we don't have to keep
re-typing it.

Here is the chronological progression.

1- Some general comments about stuff posted previously.

People ignore it because it doesn't add new value.

2- A mention of "secret people" doing "secret stuff" and
involved in The Conspiracy.

People ignore it because it doesn't add new value.

(I am naming the 3 new secret people as Huey, Dewey, and Louie - just to keep them straight.)

3- Disjointed raving about everything and an attack on
the FBI.

This is politely (I don't know why) ignored by the FBI.
Other posters then arrive at the point of asking for a
more courteous attitude and one actual smidgen of proof.
(...and here we are again)

I am unsure why the personal attacks on the integrity of Ckret are allowed.

[snowmman 3]

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Gosset is a better match

Hey! we've not talked about Gossett in a while.
Can someone summarize why he's a good match?
I can see how he's better than Duane? What else is there? do we know?

[377 20]

Gosset has been largely ignored by the FBI. That's a pretty strong indication that he might be Cooper.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 20]

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...This is politely (I don't know why) ignored by the FBI.
Other posters then arrive at the point of asking for a
more courteous attitude and one actual smidgen of proof.
(...and here we are again)

The Cooper forum is an engine. You just explained the combustion cycle quite nicely!

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

All,

I have all but ceased posting here,
but I have a message that I feel has
to be sent out.

Darn it! Posters using literary references I don't
understand, I must say, make me get very
annoyed at times. This is because I
never studied the clasics. It seems like some code is
ebeded it the words you post.

Why don't you consider how that makes me feel?
As soon as I see that stuff I
start to get apprehensive and turn-off.

Can't we just post messages to each
other in a language that is
ordinary plain english. The language that is for
people like me? Please post your quotes
elsewhere. Don't you think that is a
reasonable request?

Everybody is just full of "conspiracy
theories". Will they ever solve the
crime?


Sluggo_Monster

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[happythoughts 0]

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...This is politely (I don't know why) ignored by the FBI.
Other posters then arrive at the point of asking for a
more courteous attitude and one actual smidgen of proof.
(...and here we are again)

The Cooper forum is an engine. You just explained the combustion cycle quite nicely!

377

It only explains the dysfunction.

People should be posting any information that may
lead in a direction.

As a theory, if we printed out all 6,000 posts from this thread
and gave it to Galen Cook (or similar), he might find something
that we have missed and use his own resources (investigators)
to figure this out.

Cook (or others) might follow up on leads that are far too
shallow to interest the FBI.

That is the goal, right? Who cares if he writes a book?
Everyone is ok with the FBI solving the case, so why not Cook?
If Cook did prove that Duane was DBC, Jo could go on
the talk show circuit and such.

Hiding any information, or having "secret" people/facts, is
counterproductive (and, after a while, doubtful).

Besides, what is the point of coming online and posting that
you have information, but are not going to disclose it?
Easier to just not mention it.

What we need is one fact.

"Which hand is the candy in?"
"That one."
"Nope."
"The other one."
"Nope, fooled you."

[skyjack71 0]

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I am unsure why the personal attacks on the integrity of Ckret are allowed.

[AggieDave 6]

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What happned with Ckrets new evidence?

The women who has never produced a shred of actual evidence is getting on the FBI's case about the presentation of evidence?

Hi Kettle, this is the pot...

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."