DB Cooper

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Then my gluons would unhinge.

Yes, but why the gluons? Doesn't that drive you mad? Why the gluons?

[skyjack71 0]

The FBI did not interview The former employers - such as the employer in Colorado and the employer in Al.

They didn't even try to find the most mportant managers and friends - like the Ed Horan who told me he knew Duane from WA. - he worked for a company called American Income and I have a picture of him taken in 1981..what was this man's history?

American Income in CO said they didn't remember him - yet, I KNOW he did work for them.
The manager had no reason to dig thur records for me - but the FBI should have been able to find the employers tax records for 1979 - 1981. These are the yrs Ed worked for the Company.

This is the man who accidentally leaked something about Duane's past, but the FBI has never seen fit to find out WHO this man was. The past of one Ed Huran (however it was spelled) will lead the FBI to the WA, OR and ID area and Duane's exposure to jumping - I know the time they knew each other from involved helicopters and planes. Definitely WA and OR and ID...something was even said about Alaska.

Until the FBI does this they have NOT done their job. It was the one part of his history I was adamant about - this was the WA and OR connection.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Quote

.something was even said about Alaska.

http://www.northpole.ru/eng/skydive.htm

Did Duane ever mention Llyushin-76 or Antonov-26's?

[happythoughts 0]

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Quote

Quote

I think one of the "feels" I get about skydiving from DZ.com, right or wrong, is that somehow longetivity in the sport is coupled to something. I don't know what. .

Yes, it's coupled to the chances of you surviving the next time you make a jump..

I'm just a whuffo, so I can say this.

But I think that belief that experience directly couples to survival, is just something you guys all believe in, otherwise you wouldn't keep doing it. I'm not sure if you guys keep a database with a consensus "cause" of every injury, that goes back a ways.

I'd like to see the data on experience vs injury. My guess is that inexperience doesn't couple as closely as you'd like.

Usually it's because the "thing" that gets done doesn't stay static..i.e. as you get more experience, you have to change the "thing" so the buzz stays the same. Maybe I'm generalizing only for some. There's a little bit of the drug addict idea of chasing the same initial high. It takes discipline I guess to not go too far.

It's possible the risk gets dialed in so it's constant for an entire career? Dunno.

You covered 3 things.

One is called Booths Law #2. Bill Booth is a current and
historical figure of skydiving. Credits too long to list.

Quote

"The safer skydiving gear becomes, the more chances skydivers will take, in order to keep the fatality rate constant."

Low hook turns, and high speed collisions on tiny canopies is just the latest example of this law in action. Without this new kind of risk taking, fatalities would be about half what they were 20 years ago.

So, there is a lot of fatalities among the experienced skydivers
who are doing pond swooping and high speed landings.
However, even though a high percentage of the fatalities are represented by the experienced skydivers, only a small
percentage of experienced skydivers participate in those activities.

Second, USPA does an analysis of fatalities in the sport.
(Pie chart) It generally points to the same type of division.
Experienced people - pushing outside the envelope of their skill.
New jumper - making mistakes.

Self-inflicted choice vs ignorant mistakes.

Third, I haven't seen any evidence to connect DBC to an experience level or motive yet.

No evidence has pointed to anything as a motive other than money. There is no evidence of long-term participation in the sport either.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Third, I haven't seen any evidence to connect DBC to an experience level or motive yet.

No evidence has pointed to anything as a motive other than money. There is no evidence of long-term participation in the sport either.

agreed. And since all the FBI evidence has been released, that means we won't be seeing any!

[HurlinGirlie 0]

This was emailed to me from Zing, who asked that I post this in response to one of Snowman's posts.

"Prior posts have gone on about how much "skill" is needed for a night jump because of disorientation etc. Has this skill requirement been overstated?"

In a word, yes.
There are a number of jumpers who have made night jumps and other more technical jumps, such as square parachutes back in the days when round parachutes were dominant, without the training, briefings and additional equipment usually required at most dropzones today. This ain't rocket science. A lot of the added requirements today reflect the dropzones' desire to avoid lawsuits when someone does bounce or suffers an injury just as much, and in some cases more than, the added safety of more training, equipment etc.
It was not uncommon, in days gone by, for first jump students to make their first jump in the deep gloom after the sun had set. Not long enough post sunset to qualify for a night jump, but certainly in much reduced light levels. I'm certain there are other old farts on this forum who remember DC-3 loads of students at a California dropzone near a lake getting out of the plane after the sun had set, and that DZ was not the only one that ever did that.

I made my first night jump with less than 35 jumps, somewhat short of the B license qualifications of the early 70s.
I started training and jumpmastering students after having done less than 10 jumps, including the first five static line jumps. It was the only way for me to get enough bodies in the airplane at a defunct dropzone in North Dakota to get the airplane in the air.
I pretty much ran that dropzone for two years until I moved to Arizona to jump. The only bounce that happened while I was there was when two low time jumpers, who were not my students, held a two-way down to about 500 feet. One lived, the other didn't. Both of those guys went through training conducted by USPA certified instructors and jumpmasters until they were on 30-second delays and pretty much off student status.
Within a year of moving to Arizona, I became manager of a dropzone that had a reputation for being pretty loose. The only rule I ever had was that if you bounced, you were grounded.
That's not to say that there weren't any close calls, there were quite a few, but over the years I ran Ghoulidge, there were no fatalities. There were 3 before I became manager, and three more after I left.

In response to a few other statements and questions I've seen in this thread:

The reason that the highest preponderance of fatalities is D licensed jumpers is the simple fact that jumpers with D licenses do many more jumps than any other group.
Basically, the more any individual jumps, the more likely it becomes that that person will be involved in something that leads to serious injury or death.

Military training is quite a bit different than sport jump training, yet the military can and does get their people up to combat ready status in under 50 jumps. Once again demonstrating that this ain't rocket science.

I am not convinced that it would require a high level of skydiving experience to successfully jump from a 727 with a bag of cash tied on.
At the level of jump experience I had in the early 70s, if I were going to pull Cooper's caper, I'd have most likely opted for that NB6 pilot's emergency rig over a sport rig for the simple reason that its a reserve canopy, therefore less likely to malfunction, and its a backpack style rig, leaving the front open to tie on a bag of cash.

You don't need googles to jump, even out of a jet, they are merely nice to have. There are a lot of jumpmasters here who can tell stories of students whose eyes slammed closed on the "GO" command and didn't reopen until they felt the opening shock.

At 10,000, with flaps down, the speed isn't so high that its going to rip your eyeballs out of your head. Even a novice with zero jump experience could have picked up a book, like R.A. Gunby's Sport Parachuting and figured out that from that altitude you could jump out, count to 10 and pull the ripcord with plenty of altitude still below you.
Well, enough of my ranting, I don't want to get my friend banned for posting this for me, but apparently the 60-day ban I got quite some time ago is still in effect and I couldn't resist trying to gey my two cents in one more time.

To those who inquired about my health ... Well, the doctors aren't certain exactly what happened to me. I really thought I was having a heart attack when I had chest pains, numbness and shooting pain down my left arm, shortness of breath and a bit of nausea, but after $40,000 worth of medical bills, the cardiologists say my heart and lungs and coronary arteries are healthy. I'm now engaged in trying to get my FAA medical certicate back so I can start flying again, but it may take three to six months to do that. In the meantime, I've had no reoccurence of symptoms and I feel fine.

[georger 197]

So, there is a lot of fatalities among the experienced skydivers
who are doing pond swooping and high speed landings.
However, even though a high percentage of the fatalities are represented by the experienced skydivers, only a small
percentage of experienced skydivers participate in those activities.

Second, USPA does an analysis of fatalities in the sport.
(Pie chart) It generally points to the same type of division.
Experienced people - pushing outside the envelope of their skill.
New jumper - making mistakes.

Self-inflicted choice vs ignorant mistakes.

Third, I haven't seen any evidence to connect DBC to an experience level or motive yet.

No evidence has pointed to anything as a motive other than money. There is no evidence of long-term participation in the sport either.

[georger 197]

Quote

This was emailed to me from Zing, who asked that I post this in response to one of Snowman's posts.

"Prior posts have gone on about how much "skill" is needed for a night jump because of disorientation etc. Has this skill requirement been overstated?"

In a word, yes.
There are a number of jumpers who have made night jumps and other more technical jumps, such as square parachutes back in the days when round parachutes were dominant, without the training, briefings and additional equipment usually required at most dropzones today. This ain't rocket science. A lot of the added requirements today reflect the dropzones' desire to avoid lawsuits when someone does bounce or suffers an injury just as much, and in some cases more than, the added safety of more training, equipment etc.
It was not uncommon, in days gone by, for first jump students to make their first jump in the deep gloom after the sun had set. Not long enough post sunset to qualify for a night jump, but certainly in much reduced light levels. I'm certain there are other old farts on this forum who remember DC-3 loads of students at a California dropzone near a lake getting out of the plane after the sun had set, and that DZ was not the only one that ever did that.

I made my first night jump with less than 35 jumps, somewhat short of the B license qualifications of the early 70s.
I started training and jumpmastering students after having done less than 10 jumps, including the first five static line jumps. It was the only way for me to get enough bodies in the airplane at a defunct dropzone in North Dakota to get the airplane in the air.
I pretty much ran that dropzone for two years until I moved to Arizona to jump. The only bounce that happened while I was there was when two low time jumpers, who were not my students, held a two-way down to about 500 feet. One lived, the other didn't. Both of those guys went through training conducted by USPA certified instructors and jumpmasters until they were on 30-second delays and pretty much off student status.
Within a year of moving to Arizona, I became manager of a dropzone that had a reputation for being pretty loose. The only rule I ever had was that if you bounced, you were grounded.
That's not to say that there weren't any close calls, there were quite a few, but over the years I ran Ghoulidge, there were no fatalities. There were 3 before I became manager, and three more after I left.

In response to a few other statements and questions I've seen in this thread:

The reason that the highest preponderance of fatalities is D licensed jumpers is the simple fact that jumpers with D licenses do many more jumps than any other group.
Basically, the more any individual jumps, the more likely it becomes that that person will be involved in something that leads to serious injury or death.

Military training is quite a bit different than sport jump training, yet the military can and does get their people up to combat ready status in under 50 jumps. Once again demonstrating that this ain't rocket science.

I am not convinced that it would require a high level of skydiving experience to successfully jump from a 727 with a bag of cash tied on.
At the level of jump experience I had in the early 70s, if I were going to pull Cooper's caper, I'd have most likely opted for that NB6 pilot's emergency rig over a sport rig for the simple reason that its a reserve canopy, therefore less likely to malfunction, and its a backpack style rig, leaving the front open to tie on a bag of cash.

You don't need googles to jump, even out of a jet, they are merely nice to have. There are a lot of jumpmasters here who can tell stories of students whose eyes slammed closed on the "GO" command and didn't reopen until they felt the opening shock.

At 10,000, with flaps down, the speed isn't so high that its going to rip your eyeballs out of your head. Even a novice with zero jump experience could have picked up a book, like R.A. Gunby's Sport Parachuting and figured out that from that altitude you could jump out, count to 10 and pull the ripcord with plenty of altitude still below you.
Well, enough of my ranting, I don't want to get my friend banned for posting this for me, but apparently the 60-day ban I got quite some time ago is still in effect and I couldn't resist trying to gey my two cents in one more time.

To those who inquired about my health ... Well, the doctors aren't certain exactly what happened to me. I really thought I was having a heart attack when I had chest pains, numbness and shooting pain down my left arm, shortness of breath and a bit of nausea, but after $40,000 worth of medical bills, the cardiologists say my heart and lungs and coronary arteries are healthy. I'm now engaged in trying to get my FAA medical certicate back so I can start flying again, but it may take three to six months to do that. In the meantime, I've had no reoccurence of symptoms and I feel fine.

Reply> Nice post. Thanks!

I for one appreciate the common sense approach.

Georger

[snowmman 3]

Thanks for the post Zing, I liked it.

Quote

Cooper stated his primary motive. Grudge.
G.

I was surprised that Ckret repeatedly said that if the grudge was primary, Cooper would have stated it when he got the microphone. I'm no shrink, but isn't that a narrow view of people with grudges? Cooper, the quiet guy seemed like the slow-burner type. He was probably used to internalizing crap?

If Cooper did have a grudge (he said he did) and he was trying to not get caught, then airing his grudge would have been stupid as it would have disclosed something about himself. He seemed consistent in not disclosing much about himself, so why would he air his grudge?

I'm guessing that he had a basket of grudges...in his mind layered in complexity. So that maybe also it just wasn't worth trying to explain it all to Tina. After all, what was she going to fix about any grudge?

I'm just musing about why the grudge is expected to be aired. Just lashing out may have been sufficient for Cooper? In addition to needing the money.

(edit) In fact, there's no grudge that a hijack addresses in any rational way. Maybe he was mentally both rational and irrational. Schizophrenic sort of.

[snowmman 3]

I checked this to see the publication date
(I had already mentioned Sellick's 1971 book)

I had first thought "Too late" But Zing is right. It was there in time. In fact there are more books pre-1971 that might have been useful.

This is 4th edition in 1972

Gunby,R.A. Sport Parachuting Handbook the 1970's Textbook of Sport Parachuting
Denver, CO, Jeppeson and Company. 1972, 4th Edition.

Elsewhere I've found early editions though:
4th revision 1969 (162 pp)
5th printing 1971 (163 pp)

I think what's called "4th Revision" is "4th printing" and that was indeed 1969

The 1969 copy is available for just $5

Oh wait there's more.
The 1963 edition is the 3rd edition, 120pp

Others
Sellick published in 1961
"Skydiving The art and science of sport parachuting"

Greenwood published in 1968
"Parachuting For Sport"

"The Complete Sport Parachuting Guide" by Charles Shea-Simonds in 1971

I've attached the cover of the 1969 printing of Gunby.
(edit) added cover of 1971 Greenwood

[377 20]

Georger (and Zing),

My first jump in 68 was a solid night jump. It was well after sunset and quite dark when I landed. One delay lead to another, girl before me froze on the strut, etc.

Gluons??? Is that what makes adhesives fight gravity? Hey, EEs just skim physics, you know that Georger. If I am only a decade behind the times that's ok. It takes twice that long for any new ideas in physics to have a practical application so no pragmatic harm in lagging.

Zing, can you apply for a pardon and rejoin the forum? Your symptoms are puzzling in light of your good test results. Did they rule out ventricular arrythmias?

People shouldn't get too hung up on PCA or USPA rules as a reliable indicator of jump behavior. They are often ignored. Logbooks have been faked. Jumpers do all sorts of jumps regardless of rules or even common sense. A high school kid jumped into our stadium during a night game in the 60s. Insanely risky jump and against all the rules, but he did it.

Bring Zing back!!!!!

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

I agree.
For Zing to offend, there have to be people who are offended. If we all agree we're not offended then Zing can do no wrong.

Hey he gave a good post with good info for free and while banned. He's earned it! Give him a DBC thread A-license. No night posts yet though!

(edit) Just noticed that the collision event that produced the first evidence of the gluon was in 1979 (logbook attached). I don't know if this is connected to the money find in 1980.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

.something was even said about Alaska.

http://www.northpole.ru/eng/skydive.htm

Did Duane ever mention Llyushin-76 or Antonov-26's?

Duane was never aware of the conversation Ed and I had. I was true to my word and did not tell Duane. No idea what you are talking about - iota.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 197]

Quote

Thanks for the post Zing, I liked it.

Quote

Cooper stated his primary motive. Grudge.
G.

I was surprised that Ckret repeatedly said that if the grudge was primary, Cooper would have stated it when he got the microphone. I'm no shrink, but isn't that a narrow view of people with grudges? Cooper, the quiet guy seemed like the slow-burner type. He was probably used to internalizing crap?

If Cooper did have a grudge (he said he did) and he was trying to not get caught, then airing his grudge would have been stupid as it would have disclosed something about himself. He seemed consistent in not disclosing much about himself, so why would he air his grudge?

I'm guessing that he had a basket of grudges...in his mind layered in complexity. So that maybe also it just wasn't worth trying to explain it all to Tina. After all, what was she going to fix about any grudge?

I'm just musing about why the grudge is expected to be aired. Just lashing out may have been sufficient for Cooper? In addition to needing the money.

(edit) In fact, there's no grudge that a hijack addresses in any rational way. Maybe he was mentally both rational and irrational. Schizophrenic sort of.

Reply> I agree with everything you say above. Without
knowing the man its difficult to generalise - you would
almost certainly be wrong somewhere. He's too old to
have a single grudge, in all likelihood.

I wouldn't describe him as schizoid at all. He's under
real stress but stayed with the tasks at hand and
finished his mission.

I dont agree with Ckret he would have stated his
grudge when he had the microphone. I am sure he
didn't want any microphone. I don't think he was enjoying anything. I think this was merely a means
to an end, in his mind.

We don't know who this guy was before the event or
anything about him afterwards.

Georger

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Without knowing the man its difficult to generalise - you would almost certainly be wrong somewhere. He's too old to
have a single grudge, in all likelihood.

I wouldn't describe him as schizoid at all. He's under real stress but stayed with the tasks at hand and
finished his mission.

I dont agree with Ckret he would have stated his grudge when he had the microphone. I am sure he
didn't want any microphone. I don't think he was enjoying anything. I think this was merely a means to an end, in his mind.

We don't know who this guy was before the event or anything about him afterwards.

What you have just described is how I would imagine one lives within the confines of a prison to stay out of trouble. Don't toot your horn, keep to your tasks, be polite - a means to an end - get out of prison.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 197]

Quote

Georger (and Zing),

My first jump in 68 was a solid night jump. It was well after sunset and quite dark when I landed. One delay lead to another, girl before me froze on the strut, etc.

Gluons??? Is that what makes adhesives fight gravity? Hey, EEs just skim physics, you know that Georger. If I am only a decade behind the times that's ok. It takes twice that long for any new ideas in physics to have a practical application so no pragmatic harm in lagging.

Zing, can you apply for a pardon and rejoin the forum? Your symptoms are puzzling in light of your good test results. Did they rule out ventricular arrythmias?

People shouldn't get too hung up on PCA or USPA rules as a reliable indicator of jump behavior. They are often ignored. Logbooks have been faked. Jumpers do all sorts of jumps regardless of rules or even common sense. A high school kid jumped into our stadium during a night game in the 60s. Insanely risky jump and against all the rules, but he did it.

Bring Zing back!!!!!

377

Let Zing back....

Im still intrigued by night jumps at dusk. I still think
there is an advantage to it - lack of depth perception in low light so jumping doesn't look as threatening.

what do you think?

G.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Cooper stated his primary motive. Grudge.

G.

Disagree. He said he had a grudge, but I don't recall anything reporting him as saying that was the main reason for the hijack? Cannot prove that it was his primary motive rather than the money on what we know.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

To those who inquired about my health ... Well, the doctors aren't certain exactly what happened to me. I really thought I was having a heart attack when I had chest pains, numbness and shooting pain down my left arm, shortness of breath and a bit of nausea, but after $40,000 worth of medical bills, the cardiologists say my heart and lungs and coronary arteries are healthy. I'm now engaged in trying to get my FAA medical certicate back so I can start flying again, but it may take three to six months to do that. In the meantime, I've had no reoccurence of symptoms and I feel fine.

Good luck with staying healthy and getting your FAA cert...

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 197]

Quote

Quote

Cooper stated his primary motive. Grudge.

G.

Disagree. He said he had a grudge, but I don't recall anything reporting him as saying that was the main reason for the hijack? Cannot prove that it was his primary motive rather than the money on what we know.

Read Ckret's post above. Unless I misread it, Tina sked C why he was hijacking the plane. He said a
grudge, not against the airlines, just a grudge.
He didn't elaborate. So if Cooper was speaking
truthfully, his primary motive was a grudge.
You know something better?

G.

[georger 197]

Quote

Quote

Without knowing the man its difficult to generalise - you would almost certainly be wrong somewhere. He's too old to
have a single grudge, in all likelihood.

I wouldn't describe him as schizoid at all. He's under real stress but stayed with the tasks at hand and
finished his mission.

I dont agree with Ckret he would have stated his grudge when he had the microphone. I am sure he
didn't want any microphone. I don't think he was enjoying anything. I think this was merely a means to an end, in his mind.

We don't know who this guy was before the event or anything about him afterwards.

What you have just described is how I would imagine one lives within the confines of a prison to stay out of trouble. Don't toot your horn, keep to your tasks, be polite - a means to an end - get out of prison.

Come Jo. You dont have to imagine, You know.
There many kinds of prisons. ...

G.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Come Jo. You dont have to imagine, You know.
There many kinds of prisons. ...

G.

But on the bright side!:

To Althea. From Prison.

"Stone walls do not a prison make,
Nor iron bars a cage;
Minds innocent and quiet take
That for an hermitage;
If I have freedom in my love
And in my soul am free,
Angels alone, that soar above,
Enjoy such liberty."

Richard Lovelace, written in prison
(edit) or: "To DBC thread. From the banned Zing" :)

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Jo said:
Duane was never aware of the conversation Ed and I had. I was true to my word and did not tell Duane.

why would you have a secret conversation with Ed while Duane was alive, that involved a conversation about jumping? What was the context?

[snowmman 3]

Willy Sutton was a professional bank thief.
Born Brooklyn, NY June 30, 1901. Died in 1980.
Actually escaped out of jail several times. Tunnel from Eastern State Penitentiary. Another: disguised as prison guards carrying a ladder.
Career ended in 1952 with a life sentence.
Paroled and retired to Florida.

His robberies said to total $2M. (~100 banks)
He liked to use disguises.

He once said he felt "more alive when I was inside a bank robbing it than at any other time in my life"

A reporter supposedly asked him:
"Why do you rob banks"
He answered
"Because that's where the money is"

His co-wrote "I, Willie Sutton" and "Where The Money Was"

When Willy Sutton was captured, a book in his possession was "How To Think Ahead In Chess".
reference Time 1952:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,817124-1,00.html

There is a medical phrase called "Sutton Law" in reference to him. It means:
"Always perform at the outset the diagnostic test or therapeutic maneuver most likely to establish the diagnosis"

Cooper doesn't sound anything like Willy Sutton.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Sutton
http://www.fbi.gov/libref/historic/famcases/sutton/sutton.htm

In his autobiography, he dismisses the quote:

"Why did I rob banks? Because I enjoyed it. I loved it. I was more alive when I was inside a bank, robbing it, than at any other time in my life. I enjoyed everything about it so much that one or two weeks later I'd be out looking for the next job. But to me the money was the chips, that's all."

"Go where the money is...and go there often."

and in closing, from the fbi site:
"Ironically, in 1970, Sutton did a television commercial to promote the New Britain, Connecticut, Bank and Trust Company's new photo credit card program."

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

Jo said:
Duane was never aware of the conversation Ed and I had. I was true to my word and did not tell Duane.

why would you have a secret conversation with Ed while Duane was alive, that involved a conversation about jumping? What was the context?

Snowmman: Why do I have to repeat this story and why is everything I say taken out of context?

This was not a "SECRET" conversation and it was not about "JUMPING". Ed was ill while we were in Denver and he asked Duane to come over and run an errand for him to get his medication.

I stayed with Ed while Duane went to the drug store. It was a general conversation. He asked me where I was from and "just stuff". Toward the end of this conversation I asked him how long he had known Duane and where he knew him from. Simpy ordinary questions just general conversation. I had never met Ed prior to that time.

He told me that he knew Duane from way back in WA, OR and ID. He mentioned Helicopters and planes - he was a pilot or mechanic. He also said something about Alaska and Vancouver. I told him I didn't know Duane had ever lived there.

He immediately stated - that he supposed Duane had never told me about that part of his life and he did not realize I did not know. He asked me not to mention this to Duane - I would suppose thinking Duane would be upset. I kept my word and did not mention it to Duane and over time I forgot about it. Ed was very adamant about my not sharing our conversation with Duane. What I have just said is all he said.

The conversation was interupted as Duane was back with the medication...the drug store was just on the corner of the block so what time I spent with Ed alone was about 15-20 minutes.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Quote

He told me that he knew Duane from way back in WA, OR and ID. He mentioned Helicopters and planes - he was a pilot or mechanic. I told him I didn't know Duane had ever lived there.

He immediately stated - that he supposed Duane had never told me about that part of his life and he did not realize I did not know.
He asked me not to mention this to Duane -

Did he mention hiking with Duane? I've always wondered about that photograph, that appears to me to be hiking, with some mountains with spring/summer? snow on them.

What did Ed look like? Was he fit looking? How old was Ed then? What year was the conversation?

How did he fit helicopters, planes, and job description as pilot or mechanic all in that random 15 minute conversation? It doesn't make sense.

(edit) related:
May 31/June 1, 1967
Two USAF HH-3E ( Sikorsky S-61R ) made the first non-stop trans-Atlantic flight by helicopters , en route to the Paris Air Show.
Nine aerial refueling were made by each aircraft from C-130 Hercules tankers at altitudes of between 300 and 2800 m and speeds of 200 km/h.
The 6870 km from New York to Paris were flown in 30 hs 46 min.