snowmman 3
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Orange1 0
QuoteJo Stated:
QuoteThe night clerk went to the FBI - we cannot make the FBI investigate or search for the registration. Why go on a TV program if the FBI only intends discredit you in the public eye.
Orange Stated:QuoteCkret has already searched for documentation on the registration and not found anything. Do you bother to absorb anything on this forum that doesn't fit in with your view? (no, don't bother answering that one.)
For the love of GOD:
I have told you before - that Carr made that STATEMENT BEFORE the night clerk went into the FBIi office with a signed statement. Carr also stated they were looking for Collins on a registration. He never stated they found any hotel registrations - yet logic says they had to have them.
Why do you harass me into making repeat statements?
CKRET comes here and makes statements he cannot prove to discredit me. Why should any witness who comes forward expect to be treated any differently?
OK, I was trying to ignore (I really was, Snow, I promise, see I ignored the ridiculous post above the one i am answering) but this was aimed at me so let me answer.
For the love of GOD - why would someone making a statement suddenly result in old evidence appearing when it has already been looked for and not been found??
What "logic" dictates it should be found? The suspect story of someone in China who you keep hiding?
Why is Ckret trying to discredit you? (And saying this is attacking him, btw, which exposes your OUTRIGHT LIE from earlier) What does he gain from it? You are the only person on this forum who does not believe that Ckret wants to solve this case. As for Ckret making statements he cannot prove - HAHAHAHA talk about the pot calling the kettle black!!! (I'm not sure how you want him to prove them, either. How does he prove he couldn't find something?)
And why do you harass me into repeating the obvious inconsistencies in your story?
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
Orange states:
If you look at my "history" of this you'll see it goes in cycles. I really should go back to just ignoring her, which I did for a long time. But the outright LIE about not attacking Ckret got my goat. I also wonder if not responding to her many preposrerous claims makes her think people believe them, and encourages her? The "jumping on her" is mainly an attempt to try make her see some sense but I guess I should realise it's futile. I really do feel sorry for her and think she should get on with her life rather than spending the rest of it caught up in this delusion, but I guess it's going to take a lot more than pointing out her many inconsistencies in an internet forum to do that.
btw: if she could properly counter any of the points, she probably wouldn't see it as ganging up on her either ..in fact if she could properly back up her argument a lot of people here, myself included and from what Ckret and others have said them too, would happily encourage & support her (as I did in fact do way back when, before I realised that she had basically nothing but flights of fancy). She has a Duane agenda, I think most of the rest of us just want to know who it was - Duane, whoever, doesn't matter as long as we see some actual evidence.
If you look at my "history" of this you'll see it goes in cycles. I really should go back to just ignoring her, which I did for a long time. But the outright LIE about not attacking Ckret got my goat. I also wonder if not responding to her many preposrerous claims makes her think people believe them, and encourages her? The "jumping on her" is mainly an attempt to try make her see some sense but I guess I should realise it's futile. I really do feel sorry for her and think she should get on with her life rather than spending the rest of it caught up in this delusion, but I guess it's going to take a lot more than pointing out her many inconsistencies in an internet forum to do that.
btw: if she could properly counter any of the points, she probably wouldn't see it as ganging up on her either ..in fact if she could properly back up her argument a lot of people here, myself included and from what Ckret and others have said them too, would happily encourage & support her (as I did in fact do way back when, before I realised that she had basically nothing but flights of fancy). She has a Duane agenda, I think most of the rest of us just want to know who it was - Duane, whoever, doesn't matter as long as we see some actual evidence.
Nothing but Flights of Fancy - sounds like a certain writer I know.
If you post on a subject for yrs - there will be "inconsistencies" as time changes and theorys change, but the basic FACTS never change.
I don't need encouragement to do what I do - I do it because someone has to.
The FBI investigation of Duane Weber flyes in the face of Truth and Honor and what this Nation stands for. Why would I sit on the Cooper story for over 4 yrs and then go public in 2000 after a March conversation with an FBI agent? Not because I wanted to go public, but because I do not tolerate others not earning the paychecks that my taxes pay for. I am not talking about Carr, but a prior agent.
I trusted the FBI to handle this in a factual manner - but after more than 4 yrs the agent only offered me information that refuted information I held in my hands in black and white government documents...obtained while the FBI was doing its own investigation. This action by the FBI caused me to loose ALL faith in our FBI and any investigative forces that supposedly are sworn to protect and defend us.
Why are my statements any more outrageous than those of others who present their subjects? Others quietly gather their information and present it in a book or on TV.
Why? They did not actually know the suspect and therefore they cannot afford to damage their positions on the subject because they don't have answers to every question that will be fielded to them. All of their information is second hand and 3rd hand. They were did not experience anything with their subject first hand.
They did not have their subject tell them to their face - "I'm Dan Cooper".
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
snowmman 3
QuoteOthers quietly gather their information and present it in a book or on TV.
Jo, you're dating yourself. Today, the revolution will not be televised. It will be on Youtube. Get with it grrrrrrl!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTCQSk2l8bc
QuoteBy saying "do" you're implying knowledge of the present and future, which is not possible, so your post is incorrect, on its face.
Ah come on - instead of picking on my poor choice of words (remember I am the bimbo here) do your thing regarding the post below. We have a crime to solve.
Snowmman I feel you are wasting your time regarding licenses,etc. Ckret is right - they did thoroughly check-out the known jumpers - those with a licenses and anyone logged in. Hence, WHY they decided his exposure was military or some form of illegal activity - such as drugs. What they did NOT look at was private planes and private jumpers doing their OWN thing.
If you have a pilot and a plane with one experienced jumper - he would be able to teach this person without anyone knowing. You would need a pick-up person, but that person might just be an errand boy who has no knowledge of any rules or regulations...which by the way were ignored most of the time in rural areas.
From what I found yrs ago this was not WELL regulated and the scenario I just described happend many times. MN was famous for such antics as was Florida and Mexico - lots of drug smugglers out of Casa Grande area. These individuals stole planes in the states and flew them into S. America to be sold, plus they would also pull off bringing drugs back the same way...sell the plane and make the buy and get the dope back into the states...hence two planes, but they did not want to jeopardize the legal plane so the drug carrier jumps with the booty on American soil.
In the beginning of my search I was contacted by someone who remained anonomous as I had been making inquiries involving Casa Grande and ariplane thefts prior to 1971. This all came up in my search for Ed and because Duane had mentioned Casa Grande in relation to an individual whom I had asked the FBI to check - the CA man whose name I will not repeat as he was a member of the family, but they never did. I was ignored - this was yrs and yrs ago before I went public.
Some of these operations came out of WA, OR UT and ID areas. To steal a plane it took a mechanic and a pilot to do this. If they were training a rookie - they also taught him how to bail if something went wrong - and to make the drug drop on the return. These guys had communication skills not used by the general public. This is where the focus should be to find - Cooper or who he was.
So CKret if you are reading this perhaps you need to dig back thru the file and find this information I provided to the FBI.
As I have said KISS. You guys and the FBI try to complicate things. Of course, if my scenario is correct they are all dead and gone - but, from the story I was told by Duane and if the FBI had checked out a specific individual I directed them too - maybe they would have found something over 12 yrs ago - when I first contacted them.
Copyright©2008 by Jo Weber
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
377 21
QuoteI've been inspired by the group goal to dig up new evidence, and am going to put up the money to get to the bottom of this new evidence that arrived in my email! Looks promising!
Date: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: victor turay [email protected]
To: ...
Subject: PARTNERSHIP INVESTMENT
Dear Sir,
My name is Dr Victor Turay, the manager of bill and exchange at the foreign remittance department of Bank of Africa (BOA) Abidjan Cote d' Ivoire.I came to know of you in my search for a reliable and reputable person to handle a very confidential transaction that involves the transfer of a huge sum of money to a foreign account.
In my department we discovered an abandoned sum of US$174,000 (One Hundred Seventy Four Thousand U.S Dollars) . In a dormant account that belongs to one of our foreign client who died in a 727 plane hijack in the year 1971 in the USA that almost took the whole life of the pasengeres on board.
Since we got information about his death, we have been expecting his next of kin or some body with complete information about the account to come over and claim his money. Because the money can not be released, unless somebody applies for it as next of kin or relation to the deceased with complete data of the account, as indicated in our banking guidelines. But uptill now nobody has come up as his next of kin to claim the fund, which means that the next of kin also died leaving no body behind for the claim.
It is therefore upon this discovery that I and other officials in my department that knows about the fund,decided to make this businness proposal to you for you to present your self as the next of kin or relation to the deceased and apply for the transfer of the money into your nominated foreign account for subsequent disbursement. Since nobody is coming for it and we don't want this money to go into the Bank treasury as unclaimed Bill. The banking law and guideline here stipulates that if such money remained unclamed after three years, the money will be transfered into the Bank treasury account as unclaimed fund.
The need of a foreigner as next of kin in this transaction is due to the fact that the client involved was a foreigner and an Ivoirean can not stand in as next of kin to a foreigner. You will be given 30% for your assitance and effort at the end of the transfer, after removing any expences incured by both party if any.
Modalities have been worked out at the highest levels for the immediate transfer of the funds within 14 working days to your nominated account. Subject to your satisfaction of the above stated terms. Our assurance is that your role and the transaction is risk free, as all modalities has been in place for the transfer.
If you can handle this project. Please get back to me through my e-mail address for more details on what you are to do.Mind you that this transaction requires the highest mutual trust and absolute secrecy. Please indicate your private telephone number where I can always reach.
Yours sincerely,
DR VICTOR TURAY
www.ebolamonkeyman.com website has been called racist, but it sure wastes the time of these 419 scammers.
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 21
QuoteWe were talking about skydiving risk/injuries a while back, for us whuffos.
I was reading another thread here at DZ.com, and I think the discussion of risk factors left out one thing: skydiving seems safer if you jump alone.
Quoting a poster on another thread:
"Your best bet will always be to stick to the plan when it comes to factors that are agreed upon for the entire load. You are sharing the sky with these people, and they will be expecting you to abide by the choices you all made proir to take off, as you should be expecting of them."
So even if you've figured out the appropriate risk you want to take, it seems you've also bitten off some assessment of risk created by the people you share the load with. So it's not just about you and your technology. It's about this group that gets created on the fly, that's going to exit the plane in the same area.
An interesting problem! Maybe that's what drives a lot of the social culture!
Be interesting to see breakdown of that risk aspect vs injuries also!
Jumping alone is definitely safer. Landing alone would be too. I have anecdotal evidence that the arrival of a new hot whuffo girl at the DZ causes a rise in landing injuries. Every guy tries to outswoop the last guy and pretty soon kaboom. Seen it happen twice!
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
georger 197
QuoteQuoteBy saying "do" you're implying knowledge of the present and future, which is not possible, so your post is incorrect, on its face.
Ah come on - instead of picking on my poor choice of words (remember I am the bimbo here) do your thing regarding the post below. We have a crime to solve.
Snowmman I feel you are wasting your time regarding licenses,etc. Ckret is right - they did thoroughly check-out the known jumpers - those with a licenses and anyone logged in. Hence, WHY they decided his exposure was military or some form of illegal activity - such as drugs. What they did NOT look at was private planes and private jumpers doing their OWN thing.
If you have a pilot and a plane with one experienced jumper - he would be able to teach this person without anyone knowing. You would need a pick-up person, but that person might just be an errand boy who has no knowledge of any rules or regulations...which by the way were ignored most of the time in rural areas.
From what I found yrs ago this was not WELL regulated and the scenario I just described happend many times. MN was famous for such antics as was Florida and Mexico - lots of drug smugglers out of Casa Grande area. These individuals stole planes in the states and flew them into S. America to be sold, plus they would also pull off bringing drugs back the same way...sell the plane and make the buy and get the dope back into the states...hence two planes, but they did not want to jeopardize the legal plane so the drug carrier jumps with the booty on American soil.
In the beginning of my search I was contacted by someone who remained anonomous as I had been making inquiries involving Casa Grande and ariplane thefts prior to 1971. This all came up in my search for Ed and because Duane had mentioned Casa Grande in relation to an individual whom I had asked the FBI to check - the CA man whose name I will not repeat as he was a member of the family, but they never did. I was ignored - this was yrs and yrs ago before I went public.
Some of these operations came out of WA, OR UT and ID areas. To steal a plane it took a mechanic and a pilot to do this. If they were training a rookie - they also taught him how to bail if something went wrong - and to make the drug drop on the return. These guys had communication skills not used by the general public. This is where the focus should be to find - Cooper or who he was.
So CKret if you are reading this perhaps you need to dig back thru the file and find this information I provided to the FBI.
As I have said KISS. You guys and the FBI try to complicate things. Of course, if my scenario is correct they are all dead and gone - but, from the story I was told by Duane and if the FBI had checked out a specific individual I directed them too - maybe they would have found something over 12 yrs ago - when I first contacted them.
Copyright©2008 by Jo Weber
Jo, the mistake you make is thinking YOU are important. The rest of the world is laughing or trying
to avoid you, trying to work around you, or without you.
You are living a lie here.
The emotional part of your brain is running the rational
part of your brain.
If this is your intent and you like being Entertainment
for the masses, that's your choice. Maybe there is a buck in it for you.
The rest of us have better things to do.
Georger.
377 21
Jo wrote: The FBI investigation of Duane Weber flyes in the face of Truth and Honor and what this Nation stands for.***
Really????
Flag wavers for Duane.
Bong hits for Jesus.
It all makes sense on this forum.
377
Really????
Flag wavers for Duane.
Bong hits for Jesus.
It all makes sense on this forum.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 21
QuoteQuoteBy saying "do" you're implying knowledge of the present and future, which is not possible, so your post is incorrect, on its face.
Ah come on - instead of picking on my poor choice of words (remember I am the bimbo here) do your thing regarding the post below. We have a crime to solve.
Snowmman I feel you are wasting your time regarding licenses,etc. Ckret is right - they did thoroughly check-out the known jumpers - those with a licenses and anyone logged in. Hence, WHY they decided his exposure was military or some form of illegal activity - such as drugs. What they did NOT look at was private planes and private jumpers doing their OWN thing.
If you have a pilot and a plane with one experienced jumper - he would be able to teach this person without anyone knowing. You would need a pick-up person, but that person might just be an errand boy who has no knowledge of any rules or regulations...which by the way were ignored most of the time in rural areas.
From what I found yrs ago this was not WELL regulated and the scenario I just described happend many times. MN was famous for such antics as was Florida and Mexico - lots of drug smugglers out of Casa Grande area. These individuals stole planes in the states and flew them into S. America to be sold, plus they would also pull off bringing drugs back the same way...sell the plane and make the buy and get the dope back into the states...hence two planes, but they did not want to jeopardize the legal plane so the drug carrier jumps with the booty on American soil.
In the beginning of my search I was contacted by someone who remained anonomous as I had been making inquiries involving Casa Grande and ariplane thefts prior to 1971. This all came up in my search for Ed and because Duane had mentioned Casa Grande in relation to an individual whom I had asked the FBI to check - the CA man whose name I will not repeat as he was a member of the family, but they never did. I was ignored - this was yrs and yrs ago before I went public.
Some of these operations came out of WA, OR UT and ID areas. To steal a plane it took a mechanic and a pilot to do this. If they were training a rookie - they also taught him how to bail if something went wrong - and to make the drug drop on the return. These guys had communication skills not used by the general public. This is where the focus should be to find - Cooper or who he was.
So CKret if you are reading this perhaps you need to dig back thru the file and find this information I provided to the FBI.
As I have said KISS. You guys and the FBI try to complicate things. Of course, if my scenario is correct they are all dead and gone - but, from the story I was told by Duane and if the FBI had checked out a specific individual I directed them too - maybe they would have found something over 12 yrs ago - when I first contacted them.
Copyright©2008 by Jo Weber
Jo is right. Planes were stolen for drug running. A lot of Beech 18s had heavy forged chains and padlocks around their prop hubs in the 1960s and 70s to deter theft. A few jumpers with high value drugs made night jumps with stuff strapped to them, with a few highly publicized fatalities (one was even a lawyer as I recall) . Lower value drugs (pot) were just dropped some with chutes some without. Early AADs (Sentinels) were used to allow high altitude drops and low altitude openings for heavy bundles.
NOTHING however connects Duane with ANY of these clandestine enterprises. "Duane knew a plane mechanic" does not meet the standard of proof required. Just about everyone knows a plane mechanic.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
"If a DBC thread runs long enough, all posters will have been accused of being motivated by money."
example:
example:
Quote
Maybe there is a buck in it for you.
The rest of us have better things to do.
Georger.
Orange1 0
Quote
Jo is right. Planes were stolen for drug running. A lot of Beech 18s had heavy forged chains and padlocks around their prop hubs in the 1960s and 70s to deter theft. A few jumpers with high value drugs made night jumps with stuff strapped to them, with a few highly publicized fatalities (one was even a lawyer as I recall) . Lower value drugs (pot) were just dropped some with chutes some without. Early AADs (Sentinels) were used to allow high altitude drops and low altitude openings for heavy bundles.
NOTHING however connects Duane with ANY of these clandestine enterprises. "Duane knew a plane mechanic" does not meet the standard of proof required. Just about everyone knows a plane mechanic.
377
They used AADs for drug drops?!.. I never knew that!!
I remember reading about a skydiving fatality, some guy dressed in black who jumped at night, found (IIRC) the next day with drugs on him. For some reason I think I read this on NickDG's BASE list, but that doesn't make sense (and if it was it doesn't appear to be there anymore)? Nick, are you still out there...?
I don't know any plane mechanics actually, but i know a number of pilots who are not associated with jumping. One of them was looking into flying for a DZ to get his hours up, but changed his mind after I sent him the local guidelines for jump pilots..! And we have had pilots, well experienced in other flying, quit the DZ very soon because they can't take the stress of flying jumpers (stalls, etc). Off the topic, sure, but no more off the topic than drug drops (or the Bay of Pigs or MLK or Order of the Amaranth and what happened to smoke jumpers) I am sure.
(For some reason I feel an urge to go watch Cutaway ...
)Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
snowmman 3
I saw a guy get arrested for drugs on "Cops 2.0" one time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi3lDLg9LYg
Just trying to contribute to the thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi3lDLg9LYg
Just trying to contribute to the thread.
Orange1 0
Quote
"If a DBC thread runs long enough, all posters will have been accused of being motivated by money."
Orange's Law (or, to be technically correct, theorem):
A million monkeys hammering a million typewriters for a million years will eventually come up with a credible suspect for the DB Cooper case.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
snowmman 3
QuoteQuote
"If a DBC thread runs long enough, all posters will have been accused of being motivated by money."
Orange's Law (or, to be technically correct, theorem):
A million monkeys hammering a million typewriters for a million years will eventually come up with a credible suspect for the DB Cooper case.
And then you're left with a million monkeys and a million typewriters with monkey crap all over them.
377 21
QuoteQuote
"If a DBC thread runs long enough, all posters will have been accused of being motivated by money."
Orange's Law (or, to be technically correct, theorem):
A million monkeys hammering a million typewriters for a million years will eventually come up with a credible suspect for the DB Cooper case.
I think Sluggo's monkey did that a few posts back, vertically no less. One monkey in a million is better than a million monkeys, especially if you have to clean up after them.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
georger 197
Quote
"If a DBC thread runs long enough, all posters will have been accused of being motivated by money."
example:Quote
Maybe there is a buck in it for you.
The rest of us have better things to do.
Georger.
I try not to question other people's motivations.
In Jo's case I question both her sanity and her motivations, because I see her having to much
enjoyment from other's people's discomfort.
Most animals eat their prey. Jo just plays with hers.
It's a narcissistic superiority that I find sadistic.
I am having a problem with Jo asking Congress for
a bailout and getting one! Her hedge fund, Cooper
Industries Ltd, keeps collapsing due to poor management.
Georger
snowmman 3
Quote
In Jo's case I question both her sanity
I thought I addressed this sufficiently before. Did I not present strong enough evidence? (people's posts).
377 is the only rational poster.
If you disagree, please provide the post numbers that prove your theorem.
377 21
I've been thinking about an off DZ landing. Most sport jumpers' off DZ landings are made near the DZ so they know the general terrain. Cooper's was different, a real crap shoot. That would be less daunting to a paratrooper or smoke jumper.
I made a late evening balloon jump at WFFC. The winds took us many miles from the DZ. Picking out a landing spot in dusk lighting was a bit scary, unseen power line fears being the driver. A night jump from a jet over unknown terrain in winter would scare any rational skydiver. It would terrify a non jumper. A paratrooper or smoke jumper is a lot more acclimated to that kind of situation, i.e. jumping into hazardous conditions.
Assuming Cooper deployed and landed safely what did he do with the canopy? Would he really care if it was found days later? I would think all he'd need to do is cover it enough to escape immediate detection. Too heavy and unusual to pack out. You wouldn't want to be seen with anything parachute related after the news broke. I wonder if Cooper's canopy is still out there somewhere?
377
I made a late evening balloon jump at WFFC. The winds took us many miles from the DZ. Picking out a landing spot in dusk lighting was a bit scary, unseen power line fears being the driver. A night jump from a jet over unknown terrain in winter would scare any rational skydiver. It would terrify a non jumper. A paratrooper or smoke jumper is a lot more acclimated to that kind of situation, i.e. jumping into hazardous conditions.
Assuming Cooper deployed and landed safely what did he do with the canopy? Would he really care if it was found days later? I would think all he'd need to do is cover it enough to escape immediate detection. Too heavy and unusual to pack out. You wouldn't want to be seen with anything parachute related after the news broke. I wonder if Cooper's canopy is still out there somewhere?
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
snowmman 3
good thoughts 377
In reading Gunther's book, I mused that maybe Cooper's canopy HAD been found but the evidence was ignored.
Gunther recounts a story where someone (a deputy) called in with a parachute in a tree that was sighted. The agent asked "What color" and the deputy said "Orange"...Agent said "nope". And that was the end of that.
I always wondered if maybe a white canopy discolored in the sun or something, got misidentified, and actually was Cooper's canopy.
So Cooper's canopy may actually have been found and ignored.
Hey Gunther's book provides a much better picture of the placard found. I was going to scan it in, but I don't think it adds any value. (I was asking georger about a placard picture a while back)
Quote
I wonder if Cooper's canopy is still out there somewhere?
In reading Gunther's book, I mused that maybe Cooper's canopy HAD been found but the evidence was ignored.
Gunther recounts a story where someone (a deputy) called in with a parachute in a tree that was sighted. The agent asked "What color" and the deputy said "Orange"...Agent said "nope". And that was the end of that.
I always wondered if maybe a white canopy discolored in the sun or something, got misidentified, and actually was Cooper's canopy.
So Cooper's canopy may actually have been found and ignored.
Hey Gunther's book provides a much better picture of the placard found. I was going to scan it in, but I don't think it adds any value. (I was asking georger about a placard picture a while back)
377 21
A lot of C 9s were four color, orange being one of them. Is it possible Cossey was wrong about the color?
I was told that I had an orange PD reserve by the guy who sold me my used rig. It was gray/silver when I cut away and deployed it. It had the right serial number, but even the original owner was mistaken about its color. Quite a few jumpers never see their reserves. They just drop off a packed rig and pick up a packed rig.
377
I was told that I had an orange PD reserve by the guy who sold me my used rig. It was gray/silver when I cut away and deployed it. It had the right serial number, but even the original owner was mistaken about its color. Quite a few jumpers never see their reserves. They just drop off a packed rig and pick up a packed rig.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
jo, if you said "did" you might be accurate about whatever you're trying to say, because you'd be assessing past data.
By saying "do" you're implying knowledge of the present and future, which is not possible, so your post is incorrect, on its face.
Although by replying, I may be validating your post.
So your post is neither right nor wrong, and as such is perfect for this thread.
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