skyjack71 0 #50801 December 9, 2014 Regardless - Cooper did make it and there was more than ONE person involved in the conception....how many I do not know. The idea was merrily concieved and there was no planning of an actual crime. What was the reason for this Skyjacking? Did he or they need the money? Whatever or whoever made the skys even more dangerous & more people thought they could do what Cooper did. A lot of them went to prison, but Cooper was the only unsolved one. If it was a group of men - why didn't they ask for more money...? Was the actually skyjacking idea born, but not committed by others? It was a group of guys playing poker - not one of them ever thought any one of them would ever actually do it! When the caper happened they all figured they would get blame or caught up in a conspiracy theory & careers & lives would be destroyed. Not to mention doing time - just because they talked about how a skyjacking could be done without getting caught! Two individuals pulled it off - a man or two men or a man & a woman? At any rate the others knew who Cooper was or did they? If Cooper was part of a gambling game and using an alias - did they really know who he was - the problem was as a group the crime was concieved...and implications could and in all probability would be made. Some wear many hats in this and the CAT caught the Mouse...No the CAT won the Mouse in that poker game. The CAT was a CON man who used what he learned. It took a couple of yrs of planning and learning everything he needed to know...but, when someone actually did it - they all knew they could be held responsible. Not one of them knew Cooper's REAL name until the day they saw his picture in a newpaper in 2000. Cooper was a DIRTY ROTTEN CRIMINAL. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #50802 December 9, 2014 Duane and his wife of the day were in WA in 1969 and they had gone to Bremerton to see her son....they got pulled over - but not charged as one of them was sober enough to drive.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #50803 December 9, 2014 Seems like the other thread has nothing to offer other than blasting each other & offering nothing to substanciate their claims. Because I got upset about a certain person's horrid writings as he has so demonstrated in this thread & I am being crucified for attempting to defend myself. No I do NOT get on the phone & attack people who say things that are unsubstanciated...I do email them if it is offensive enough as I am a real person with real feelings and not a liar! I am not what I have been made out to be by a dominant poster on this thread. Yet he continueously posts demeaning things about me & others involved in the case. Such as Tina & her family...it is not like they were on this thread to defend themselves....and he is continueing his assaults as I write on these innocent individuals by publically analyzing their past and present with subjective things...it is SICK. I was kind enough to contact Mitchell on Vicki's behalf & arrange for them to communicate with the contact information to remain private... I suppose she approves of the things Bruce is stating about the stewardess! I did contact the young man & made him aware of the horrid things Bruce has posted about Tina and reminded him she was a victim...of this man....I do not believe he was aware of how vicious certain individual can be. It is not Bruce who pays for letting Jo in his life as it is being stated in other places - the other way around. We all know from the Tina contact how Bruce is...he has no boundaries. Now Bruce is developing a sick profile of two girls whose lives do NOT need to be profiled...they were doing their job, for God's sake. It has been 43 yrs & these young ladies with a bright futures had their lives compromised by Cooper. They do NOT continuely need to be put under a microscope by sick lusting individuals looking to make a buck or two...there should be boundaries. NO victim should ever have to relive those moments over & over. Bruce makes them victims again by doing one of this psycho profiles on them. What he is doing is sick & it needs to be stopped. Do not victims have rights? They don't need the rest of their lives compromised by Bruce with his contrite writings & he is into this only for $$$'s. He doesn't care who he hurts. A strange bully show up on my door & I will slam the door in his face! Bruce was encroaching on her privacy, but he treats that as her responsibliity. For GODS SAKE what happened to human decency! No one is safe from the rants of these writers...not even the victims. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #50804 December 9, 2014 My original contact with Mitchell was only for him to see the photos...I have not imposed myself on him nor was is inability to ID the photos of Duane YRS ago a threat of any kind....he gave me an honest answer & yrs later I acquire more photos - he viewed those. A statement was made by someone who posts in this thread regarding this: Referencing Tina's refusal of the money. "He doesn't even seem concerned about leaving evidence behind on the plane! It's an all-or-nothing plan with escape the primary goal, with or without the money". That thought had occured to me. When he was offering the money to Tina - he didn't seem to care about his prints...yet per other writings Cooper was print phobic. "This guy was a tactical thinker with tactical experience. He keeps himself and everyone else focused and on-task right up to his leaving. The Transcripts do not convey but half of the conversations-communications Cooper made with Tina and the pilots right up to his leaving." Who is this person and why does he have privileges regarding things not in the transcripts... I found this very interesting...! I do not know who the poster was, but Cooper was focused & Weber was that way with young people and in sales. He kept them focused - why he was so good at it...but, I never considered it anything other than learning as we all do in sales to stay focused on the subject & look for the signals & know what to say. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #50805 December 9, 2014 Per the transcipts - it was Tina who introduced the grudge thing - as it was part of her training.... For some reason this information is being distorted to reflect that Cooper initiated the conversation, Why would someone manipulate the reports given to the FBI about this....What is their motive is? How or why would some one deliberately manipulate the minutes of the conversation on the plane and who would have that knowledge? This sounds like Galen - same tactics he used in his many emails to me.... This same individual claimed Cooper waited for a transition zone before jumping.... I completely agree with that statement...because Duane knew the guys working the towers & the communications...he was waiting for it to be handed off....why some transcript of the communications NO LONGER exist. This person assumes I do not know this...but I do & that is what the cylinders were that Duane picked up from a man who worked at the tower in Atlanta. How many times do I have to tell the thread that some guys out of Atlanta had been loaned to either Seattle or Vancouver because of some problems....it was only for a few weeks during a transition time for some reason.... I saw those cylinders - and I had them when Duane died - but I did not know what they were. I took them to one of the antique dealer and he said he knew someone who collected them...this is before I knew SHIT about Cooper - I didn't even know who DAN COOPER was.....I told Mr H about this and who I gave them to....they meant nothing to me - other than something Duane went to retrive from a man in Atlanta who worked at the airport....I have tried to explain this before, but NO ONE heard me. This is in the thread....so I hope someone keeps a copy so they can prove it one day. "His choice of that aircraft and that particular flight (recently added) are all tactical. (those facts and conditions offer a tactical advantage). His choice of where to bail is tactical also" . How many times do I have to tell people that Duane's brother worked for Boeing and that Stanley Gilliam was married to his mother's god child born the same yrs as Duane and they were only a month apart. Her name I have told in this thread and with the story...her name was Barth she became he wife of Gilliam - Duane's mother and the young ladies mother were BEST friends. and they were born one month apart. Duane or his family attended the ceremony when the 727 was first put out..... HOW many time do I have to tell this for someone to LISTEN to me?Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #50806 December 9, 2014 RobertMBlevins EDIT: And what the heck do you need Robert99 quoting a post directed at YOU...and then rattling off a bunch of answers FOR you. Is he like your mouthpiece or something? LOL. Another lecture from the RobertMBlevins School of Journalism. Blevins, you really do need to start reading the baloney that is posted in your name. Or maybe just have whoever writes that stuff read some of it to you. Then maybe you could get back to working on your dream of writing the Next Great American Novel or, at least, the manuscript for the sequel to any movie that may or may not have ever been made. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckwheatFlower 0 #50807 December 10, 2014 NMIWrecks That's a total bummer. I am 1000% sure Mr. Mitchell would have identified Dick Lepsy as the Cooper suspect. Now we will never know. Thanks Jo, for souring the milk for the rest of us. I'm sure after a couple statements about D-Web gluing his ears to his head, Mitchell went "Red Alert, Shields Up!"! I'm with you on this one. This case is never going to be solved and stuff like that doesn't help. Whatever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #50808 December 10, 2014 I am trying to hang in here. I need to do a post. It is important. Robert99 I do not know who you really are, but some of you need to try to listen (read) what I am telling you....I have kept secrets. I have known more than I thought I did, but felt NO one would listen. Now I know someone is listen - if no one but the Creator & the Terminator. I am being heard and I have got some answers...I knew much more than I thought I did. Clarity comes with the summation of our lives.... Perhaps I am delusional, but taking NO drugs other than something to help me get a few hours of sleep. My body is falling apart, but my mind although disorganized is working just fine...and I will finish my mission. Even I did not know all of the truths. Robt99 I do not need any of your KNOW IT ALL personality at this time. You cannot stop the truth from being told - nor can Georger... The truth could have been told with no repercussion to anyone, but there are those who chose to take the hard road or to make the road I had to travel more difficult and way too long. I will try to come back later to finish what I have to do. It may not be tonight, but it will be soon. NO one can stop me from doing what has to be done...I have tried to tell the story and yet protect and do no harm, but there are certain characters who HAD to prolong the process. Later!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #50809 December 10, 2014 Do you guys know where those 2 cylinders are at this time. Do you know what happened to them after Weber picked them up in Atlanta from the man who had possession of them? The missing communications may be in the minutes, but the cylinders supposedly came up missing? Or did the communication guy make copies? You see Robt99 - you gave yourself away with a comment you made - or perhaps it was another poster who claimed certain communications had been made (regarding exchanges between Cooper and the co-pilot)communications never made public. The posting was in that other place. Or perhaps there is a pretender in the other thread - but, that information was NEVER made public....I knew about missing communications, but had NO proof of such. Loose tongues & old age do not mix.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #50810 December 10, 2014 BuckwheatFlower I'm with you on this one. This case is never going to be solved and stuff like that doesn't help. Whatever. So who are you? You came to the thread in 2013 and now you are an authority of Cooper.... You gave no location in your DZ inforamtion, but I bet it is CA or it was CA in 2004.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #50811 December 10, 2014 Cooper had dyed hair. The Jefferson pic 1966 the FBI concealed from me all of these yrs show Weber with dark curly (very wavy) hair. The 1970/1971 photo the exwife sent me shows Weber with Dyed hair....and all photos after that time show lots of gray hair. The Jefferson composite show a tilted down head - and of course Duane was missing his 4 lower teeth and no bridge at that time. 1970 - he had a bridge but it was a temporary & his dark hair. The nose has been PICKED to death...with the aviator type glasses worn by Cooper - they conceal part of the important features - and this is evident from the photo of Weber - such as one made with thick frame and stems taken in on of the shots - and I do not remember the yr off the top of my head. The glasses and a little dental glue go a long way - and you have Cooper and Weber wrapped up in one package. Feeble attempt so do this in the thread were made a joke out of. Do note the curly wavy hair in the Jefferson intake of 1966 shows the very wavy hair.... In 1970's I started using the temporary dyes to cover my gray. I also have very curly hair - very wavy, but the temporary dyes made my hair sleek and smooth with the help of large curlers. The temporary dyes also made my hair very shiny.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #50812 December 10, 2014 skyjack71 Robert99 I do not know who you really are, but some of you need to try to listen (read) what I am telling you....I have kept secrets. Robt99 I do not need any of your KNOW IT ALL personality at this time. You cannot stop the truth from being told - nor can Georger... Jo, it has been obvious to all for years that you have been keeping "secrets". And your biggest secret is what you are getting out of this. Has someone paid you to do this? Do you have a book ready to publish? Or is it just that you have an ego that benefits from imagining that Duane was Cooper? Your need to picture Duane as some kind of James Bond character, when in fact he was an unsuccessful small time crook, has resulted in your fabricating stories that Duane had absolutely nothing to do with. You are not entitled to call such fairy tales "truth". And you are obviously disappointed when no one believes your wild stories. But Duane Weber was not D.B. Cooper and had nothing to do with the hijacking, even on the ground. Your efforts to claim otherwise are so over-zealous as to suggest that you probably have some serious mental issues. As I have suggested before, in my judgment it would be in your best interests to seek medical care for this. Neither Georger, I, or anyone else (Blevins possibly excepted) are trying to prevent the truth about the Cooper hijacking from coming out. And the truth will come out. And there is no indication whatsoever that it will be anything to support your claims. Just remember that the chickens are coming home to roost. And for your claims, the end result may not be pretty. So be honest with everyone on this thread for once. Just explain what you are getting out of your Duane "crusade". That is the only secret of yours that interests me. You can keep the rest of your "secrets" to yourself. What do you mean that you don't know who I am? I am the person who you have called the following names, among others: 1. A troll living under a bridge. 2. A moron. 3. An ass. 4. A phony. 5. A plant from the FBI to keep the Cooper case from being solved. So you are now admitting that you go around calling people names and don't know what you are talking about? Jo, get honest with yourself for once. What are you getting out of your Duane was Cooper charade? And remember that the chickens ARE coming home. And you are not going to get any sympathy out of me when they do. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #50813 December 10, 2014 skyjack71Do you guys know where those 2 cylinders are at this time. Do you know what happened to them after Weber picked them up in Atlanta from the man who had possession of them? The missing communications may be in the minutes, but the cylinders supposedly came up missing? Or did the communication guy make copies? You see Robt99 - you gave yourself away with a comment you made - or perhaps it was another poster who claimed certain communications had been made (regarding exchanges between Cooper and the co-pilot)communications never made public. The posting was in that other place. Or perhaps there is a pretender in the other thread - but, that information was NEVER made public....I knew about missing communications, but had NO proof of such. Loose tongues & old age do not mix. Jo, is this post suppose to make sense? I don't have the slightest idea of what you are talking about. Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #50814 December 10, 2014 RobertMBlevinsRobert99 says in part: Quote'Neither Georger, I, or anyone else (Blevins possibly excepted) are trying to prevent the truth about the Cooper hijacking from coming out. And the truth will come out. And there is no indication whatsoever that it will be anything to support your claims. Just remember that the chickens are coming home to roost. And for your claims, the end result may not be pretty...' What a bunch of self-serving BS, Robert99. Are you kidding me or WHAT? You, Georger, and a few select others spend a great deal of your time (and postings) at the alternate site doing zilch except commenting badly on posters at Dropzone. You understand anyone hanging around here can see that stuff, right? To be fair to you, you guys DO discuss other subjects and sometimes very well. But it is true that a fair number of posts are about writing off anything that comes out of the Dropzone thread and talking rather badly about some people here. I think it's sour grapes since some of your past and present users there were banned from Dropzone for personal attacks. You got a suspect that will be proven soon? Is this what you mean by 'the chickens coming home to roost?' Maybe you mean William Gossett. Well...Galen Cook told everyone he was going to Alaska to write the defiinitive book that would prove Gossett was the hijacker. It's been more than five years and everyone's still waiting for the proof. I'm not trying to shut out the truth on Cooper. I'm trying to determine whether or not Kenny Christiansen was Cooper. You make a lot of blanket statements about Christiansen. These 'declarations' of yours that he wasn't the guy. But the truth is you don't know shit for sure whether Kenny was the guy. You just like to make declarations about it to impress your buddies at the alternate site. You aren't even involved in the active investigation that is being done not just by me, but by several other people now...on determining the truth about Christiansen. You aren't in the loop. I hear a lot of pap and crap about the witness descriptions. Some of you believe the sketch is actually a photograph and the descriptions are completely accurate. Can't be Christiansen you say. He was too short. Well, hell...the guy you've been talking about lately over at the alternate site, Bill Mitchell, told the FBI that he thought Cooper was no more than five foot nine. One stew said five ten to six feet. Another said maybe six feet. All of them except Mitchell thought they were going to die. You guys ignore reality a lot. Really you do. Stew Flo Schaffner said everyone (stews) were scared to death. Flo also said she thought she'd never see her family again. Bill Rataczak told Skipp Porteous that everyone expected the last thing they would ever hear was the first part of the 'bang' when the bomb went off. Some of you guys act as if these stews weren't human or something, and that their descriptions while under the most severe stress from not only the hijacker, but all those cops was just nothing. You don't try to put yourselves in their shoes. The pressure, the responsibility for all those lives including their own. Working with the FBI, with NWA, such a short time to do it all, to somehow stop what was happening and maybe catch the hijacker into the bargain. You look at the whole thing as some clinical exercise without a bit of emotion in any of it. On the other hand, the famous picture of Tina Mucklow and the crew deplaning in Reno shows Mucklow looking frightened and in the early stages of shock. You think you can solve the case by examining aerial photos, or super-analyzing every detail of the hijacking. More crap. That's been done for forty-plus years. Still no ID on the hijacker. I'm going to tell you a secret. THIS is how you solve the Cooper case: You identify a possible suspect and then dig, gather, interview, collect evidence, and do whatever it is you have to do in order to either confirm that suspect or eliminate him as the hijacker. And doing all that, I still haven't been able to eliminate him. I haven't been able to definitively prove he WAS, either. But I'm getting closer all the time. Here's another surprise for you: Living witnesses make the BEST witnesses, especially when their testimony is untainted by any possible gain, or any possible motivation to lie. And although there have been many twists and turns investigating Kenny Christiansen (along with some mistakes) I still haven't been able to eliminate him as the hijacker. And this persistence is beginning to show results, especially after we started working with the family of the alleged accomplice, Bernie Geestman. Additional witnesses are coming forward, and these witnesses, although a bit reluctant, are ready to offer what they know regarding the actions of one Kenny Peter Christiansen and his pal Bernie. Not about what they did on Shemya Island in the 50's, or whether Kenny grew veggies on the farm when he was growing up...but what he and Bernie Geestman were doing between the summer of 1971 and after the date of the hijacking. Announcement: A close family member of Bernie Geestman's has come forward. It has been difficult for her and we are handling her testimony with respect and patience. She was in a key position at the time of the hijacking because she was in attendance at the Thanksgiving dinner that was held at the home of Helen Jones, the one Bernie Geestman skipped out on, and the one Kenny was supposed to attend. The one where they both went missing the week of the hijacking. She has claimed that she believes now that she actually SAW Kenny Christiansen constructing the device that was later used to hijack Flight 305. But she didn't put it all together until AFTER January 2011 when she first saw the TV show on Kenny Christiansen. (Brad Meltzer's Decoded) Up until then, (since 'Uncle Bernie' never bothered to tell his family he would be on the show) they didn't have a clue on anything Christiansen/Geestman regarding the hijacking. It was an eye-opener for them and when they saw Bernie's interview on the show, they started comparing notes. Not long before the hijacking, this witness was living with the Geestmans in Bonney Lake. She was about 12 years old. She says she walked into a shed and saw Kenny working with some items, but not exactly things you would normally associate with a bomb. Not REAL dynamite for example, and no alarm clock. But after she saw the show, it clicked for her. It took her more than a year to gather the courage to contact me through her son. Then I did the first interview with all of them and provided them with the draft copy of our current updated report on Christiansen. That was in August of this year. They examined the report and we discussed it at length. The interview went on for a couple of hours at a local restaurant. She was pretty non-committal at the time, but told me the next day that the family would rather not say anything about Geestman's involvement in the hijacking until after Bernie Geestman was dead. Then last week...I get contacted again and they tell me about what she saw old Kenny working on in a shed on the Geestmans' property. This happened shortly before the date of the hijacking. She says she walked in on him in the shed while he was working on something, and that he turned to her and said THIS: ***"You're not supposed to be in here." So she turned and left, but not before getting a good look at the items he was working with. I was expecting her to tell me about a battery, wires, road flares, a briefcase. This would prove nothing, of course. She could have got that information anywhere. But her story made perfect sense. She named other items Kenny was working with and said she realized after the History Channel show aired that the report was basically right, and that Kenny was actually making the device he would use soon afterward to hijack 305. And the funny thing is...one of the items has something to do with coin collecting, believe it or not. In other words, if Kenny was Cooper, he did NOT use road flares to hijack the plane. He used something else, and then something ELSE on TOP of that item. To make the first item LOOK like dynamite. This actually made sense, since road flares are easily recognizable by their printing, their size, and the ignitor cap. When I realized what Kenny was doing, my first thought was: Damn, that is smart. Even a stewardess might recognize that road flares and wires and a battery were just road flares and wires and a battery. In fact, it was downright brilliant and had a practical use, besides looking like dynamite. Genius. It took me about five seconds flat to figure out how the FBI could prove her testimony is truthful. The item Kenny used ON TOP of the other items would be easily noticed by anyone (even a stewardess who only got a quick look)...and more importantly...that this item has NEVER been mentioned or referred to by the FBI. It would be far beyond guesswork or coincidence if this lady were right about the bomb, and we think either the FBI withheld this information, or never said anything about it because they didn't think it mattered. But it DOES matter now, especially if the FBI knows and she is RIGHT. How would she know about that item? They will ask that. I can't tell you what the items are because I want the FBI to see her testimony first. And you and your trash-talking buddies over at the other site better hope she's wrong, or she will suddenly become the most important witness in the hijacking. Not only that, but she says that if Margie Geestman (who is strongly suspected by me and others of knowing ALL the details of the hijacking) talks to her, that Margie will tell her everything even if she is unwilling to tell anyone else. She is certain on that. She is one brave lady, I will tell you that. So the plan is to add her testimony to the upcoming report on Christiansen, provide her contact information to them, and name BOTH items. If the FBI is aware of the special item used in part to create the bomb, then they will know she is telling the truth. And I don't know how anyone could have missed it. I wish I could tell you the item, but trust me when I say it would have obvious even with a quick glance. One of the things this witness asked of me was to tell me where Helen Jones was now. She and her family wanted to talk to Jones about what happened that Thanksgiving. (Jones had moved since the date of the hijacking.) So...I provided that information to the family. And...they talked to her. Now they know for sure that Kenny was WITH Bernie Geestman during the week of the hijacking when he went missing. Jones told them the same thing she told me: That she saw Kenny at the Sumner Laundromat about six weeks after the crime and that he admitted to her he was with Geestman that week. What does this mean? That the family asked the same question I did when I saw Geestman on Decoded telling the cast that yes...Kenny could be the hijacker because 'he looks just like him,' (the sketch) They asked themselves WHY Uncle Bernie would say that when everyone knew that he was WITH Christiansen the whole week of the hijacking. I am not really responsible for these revelations. The family was working on it, comparing notes, asking questions, etc ever since they saw Uncle Bernie on the History Channel in January 2011. They just eventually came to me about it. Blevins, the above is just more of your garbage. You have got it wrong from the start. You don't start with a suspect and then try to find evidence to incriminate that suspect. You start with the evidence and let the evidence lead you to a suspect. You claim people on the "other site" run down people on this site. Just exactly what have you and Jo Weber been doing lately, including your post above, in discussing people on the other site? Robert99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ParrotheadVol 70 #50815 December 10, 2014 It never ceases to amaze me how all of these witnesses that you come up with have such impeccable memories. Also, you obviously need Tina to be in a panicked state of mind during the hijacking so that you can render her description as inaccurate. Unfortunately, the record shows that she was anything but. I'm going to venture a wild guess here and say that rolled up coins could be made to resemble a small stick of dynamite, depending upon the color of the paper used to roll the coins in."They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ParrotheadVol 70 #50816 December 10, 2014 I just finished watching a documentary on Authur Leigh Allen, who was the primary suspect in the Zodiac Killer case. Although the show was about a Zodiac suspect, there was a quote at the end that certainly applies to the DB Cooper case and the "suspects" in that case including, but certainly not limited to, one Kenneth Christiansen. The quote comes from Dr. Kim Rossmo, who is Research Professor, Department of Criminal Justice at Texas State University. Dr. Rossmo says the following: "It's very important, and I think that this is something that has been forgotten about in the Zodiac case, It's very important to let the evidence drive the suspects, not let the suspects drive the evidence. What I mean by that is we evaluate our suspects by our known reliable physical evidence. We don't look at a good suspect that we think we have a personal interest in or a particular theory that we favor and then start to re-interpret the physical evidence. That's not how you do a case, that's gotten a lot of people into trouble in the whole Jack The Ripper case, one of the most famous unsolved serial murder investigations and we tend to see now books with various titles full about how they've solved the case, etc. But the actual fact is they tend to be more text books of how not to do a criminal investigation. It's important for any analyst or investigator, profiler or detective or anyone who is seeking to determine the truth, and let's throw in judges and scientists here too, is to come as unbiased as possible, look through all the facts and the data, and make the best determination at the end of the day. But if we've made our determination before hand, the psychological research is very clear, try as we might, we become locked into circular patterns of thinking and we keep returning to what we want to think rather than what the evidence suggests that we should think. So, if we're going to evaluate someone like Author Leigh Allen, we have to consider all of the ways he doesn't match the profile of the Zodiac". I also found another quote recently (again from the Zodiac case) that I think applies. This was a second hand quote attributed to a Lt Bruton of SFPD talking about Zidiac suspects and circumstantial evidence in October 1999: "You could open a page of the telephone book at random, throw a dart, investigate the person it lands on, and build up a good case against him"."They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #50817 December 11, 2014 I Just heard, Ayn Dietrich, the PIO and "Media Coordinator" at the Seattle HQ, has a new last name. She is now Ayn Dietrich-Williams. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckwheatFlower 0 #50818 December 11, 2014 skyjack71 So who are you? You came to the thread in 2013 and now you are an authority of Cooper.... You gave no location in your DZ inforamtion, but I bet it is CA or it was CA in 2004. Ummm.... yeah.... LOL. Do you really think I would give my personal information to someone who is known for their harassment of others? Rhetorical question... no need for a response. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckwheatFlower 0 #50819 December 11, 2014 RobertMBlevins There is a new suspect now I've heard. Earl Van Best, Jr. That book has been out for half a year. It's not really new, and there is no credible evidence he had anything to do with the Zodiac crimes. As parrot stated or quoted earlier.... the author started with a suspect and worked from there. One should always be leery of people who do that. Don't you think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuckwheatFlower 0 #50820 December 11, 2014 RobertMBlevinsStarting with a suspect and working from there' is how most major cases are solved, by the way. Learned something new tonight, thanks. I always figured they started with the evidence and then went from there. Interesting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ParrotheadVol 70 #50821 December 11, 2014 RobertMBlevinsStarting with a suspect and working from there' is how most major cases are solved, by the way. Really? Can you back this up with some sort of data? I'm betting not."They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #50822 December 11, 2014 I was made fun of by you guys over all of these yrs.... Now I will tell you this: Duane told me he knew 2 of the guys in the attached Picture.....well, he did! Does the proof of this make Duane a liar or just that he knew the 2 men. Well the two men were also linked to Fire Fighting. When I found the information I thought nahhh! But, I pulled the old magazine and read it again...there was the two guys. Find Mouse and find the other guy& then you will know who Cooper was. Both of the men are now deceased, but I kept telling you guys that Duane knew 2 of these guys...Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ParrotheadVol 70 #50823 December 11, 2014 We are talking about two different things Robert. Certainly, a suspect can be identified and investigated. But, not to the degree in which you have to change known facts and evidence to fit that suspect. Now, you are also trying to change history as well by saying that Tina was too pressued or nervous to give an accurate description. The known facts say otherwise, but you attempt to change that with absolutely no supporting facts. Look, Tina was with Cooper for several hours. She sat next to him, she stood next to him, she talked to him and he talked to her. She gave a description that was nothing like Kenny Christiansen. No amount of interviews with the Geestman family or anyone else can change this fact."They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #50824 December 11, 2014 ParrotheadVol Look, Tina was with Cooper for several hours. She sat next to him, she stood next to him, she talked to him and he talked to her. She gave a description that was nothing like Kenny Christiansen. No amount of interviews with the Geestman family or anyone else can change this fact. Why I trust Tina's description...she was focused on him and Not on the rest of the passengers. The SunGlasses: Duane had unusual eyes...anyone who knew him will tell you they were intense ^ he had a habit with his eyes - that I do not know how to describe.... It was how he could dart his eyes all over a room - not moving his head to scan a room....I expect this is very common with ex-cons like Duane. They want to check to be sure there is no one in the room who might recognized them or to spot the next victim. The best way to explained it was his eye DARTED...moved rapidly and then when he was focused he made sure he looked you straight in the eyes... I know this was also a sales learning curve...look around the room and the home to see what their interest is. Small talk is part of the sales process - but you go straight into the sales pitch & you have to know how to look for the cues or you are going to walk out of there without a sale. Direct eye contact with the client or clients is better than having one on either side of you....always position yourself in front of both - preferably the kitchen table - a place they are comfortable. If you use a dining room table note the finish and suggest the kitchen table....the dining room was often too formal. Duane Weber's eye were unforgettable and why I focus on the eyes in all of the composites. One particular thing seems to be promient in all versions where the actually witnesses had input. Remembering left from right in a description is often difficult under stress ...the Artist needs to position themselves ACROSS from the witness so the witness can point to this side or that side as thought they are looking at them....otherwise left to the discretion of the witness - he or she my say right or left when if they are positioned across from the artist all they have to is point - (this eye my right eye your left eye) - quiet often the witness will say right when they mean left unless this process is followed. One has to remember the stress of being a victim.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #50825 December 11, 2014 I was unaware that Smoke Jumpers used unique sunglasses....similar to the aviator glasses of 1971. I found it on a site, but didn't mark it but someone here might be able to find out when - they started to provide the smoke special glasses. Not the one for jumping but glasses used on the ground to shield the eyes by firefighters in 1970's. I did not know such a thing existed.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
