mrshutter45 21 #46176 January 17, 2014 what files are closed till 2025. where can this be verified?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #46177 January 17, 2014 Quote"... but I believe you have to prove your status as a CO. if someone was a CO would they be training in chemical warfare?..."Besides being sexy, I was also a CO during the Vietnam War, or as they say in Ho Chi Minh City these days, The American War. My draft board turned me down, saying they were looking for more of an Amish streak in me, or somebody like my best friend Mike, who was granted a CO status since he also said he would volunteer to be a medic. They snatched him right up. After the war, Mike vanished for years, later showing up on the docks in Brooklyn. He eventually went to college and then med school. Mike now runs the cardiac clinic at my mom's local hospitial on LI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #46178 January 17, 2014 Go the site and explore all of the pages - it is in RED BOLD PRINT on certain files! If you GO there YOU will find the same thing - just like Terry did and some of the files have BEEN destroyed. THEY do not know what happened to them. Some files do remain. NOT all of the files have to be signed for with the 25 yr stipulations....but, if they are you aren't going to be able to access them - they have conveniently been "misplaced".Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #46179 January 17, 2014 mrshutter45"I personally think the person who did this is on the periphery of the SOG/CIA project, but not necessarily one of the JM's or actual test jumpers. This Sheridan cat, or one like him, seems a better suspect. Again, in my opinion." Interesting, let me ask your opinion about something. what kind of person/jumper would feel confident enough to jump the way Cooper did. I'm talking about what he was wearing. it seems obvious he's not a southern boy like myself. it's 55 degree's right now and that's heater time/jacket all around wuss time for me. I've adapted to the climate. when I lived in Ohio I would laugh at those temps. he had to have known it was going to be a rough ride down dressed the way he was. do you feel he was experienced enough to laugh at us jumping that way because he knew he could do it dressed that way? why November and not another Holiday that has better weather and could still catch them off guard? I agree. If I had to make a bet I would place my money on a SOG guy, but more elite and more specialized, like Super-SOG. Maybe someone like a member of a Bright Light team that went into North Vietnam to extract downed pilots. Such a fellow might also be familiar with the 727s being used in that theater to insert CIA combat teams and supplies. BTW: the SOG guys I've talked to say Cooper was a SOG guy, too. They say the Cooepr skyjacking has the feel of a SOG op - the planning, the execution, the style of it all. Many SOG troopers say that Ted Braden is Danny Boy. What say you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #46180 January 17, 2014 skyjack71Go the site and explore all of the pages - it is in RED BOLD PRINT on certain files! If you GO there YOU will find the same thing - just like Terry did and some of the files have BEEN destroyed. THEY do not know what happened to them. Some files do remain. NOT all of the files have to be signed for with the 25 yr stipulations....but, if they are you aren't going to be able to access them - they have conveniently been "misplaced". One camp.....The records of the Big Flats CPS Camp #46 are restricted until the year 2025, the identity of the individual/s concerned may not be disclosed. Researchers wishing to use this material must sign a form agreeing to this stipulation before being allowed access to this part of the collection. camp #46 is located in New York...."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #46181 January 17, 2014 Duane hit an officer in war time in the Navy - and then he got booted out if the NAVY. Remember the FBI was adamant that Duane had never been in the Army and then when called down by me in 2000 claimed they have his army number wrong (HELL they had a copy of it from the records so how did the make that kind of mistake). At any rate finally they looked at the file AGAIN after the agent said SOMEONE had come in and he would call me back in a few hours. When he called back he said they had a NUMBER incorrect. Now HOW do you do THAT. It was 2000 and they dismissed Duane in 1998 and said DUANE had never been in the ARMY. Bare in mind it is then 2000 and I am the one who has to call them on the BOARD! If Doug Pasternac had not found the Army record - they WOULD never have corrected that part of their investigation. Per a letter to his mother, it seems Duane willingly went into the Army, but one has to wonder! He got kicked out in a few wks and we never could find out if it was something he did or if they found out about the Bad Conduct Discharge from the Navy! Whatever! THIS is the kind of investigation I & others had to put up with and NO apology for the mistakes the FBI made. They are investigating Weber for the first unsolved skyjacking and they can't even get his criminal and military records straight.... His wife and a new reporter had to find the ARMY Record - one the FBI denied since 1996 and until March of 2000. WHY! Without the letter he wrote from the base we never would have found his Army records! It took actually going to the ARCHIVES. THE FBI and the VA denied his Army Status even after I had the papers from Washington and until I took action myself in 2000! All the VA would tell me even after that was - YOU ARE NOT LISTED AS A RELATIVE. I HAD TO TELL THE MAN - THAT I WAS ONLY 3 YRS OLD WHEN DUANE WAS IN THE ARMY AND I DIDN'T MEET HIM UNTIL 1977 AND MARRIED HIM IN 1978. I wanted a detailed record of his Army stay - it was denied. WE did get the details of his Navy record. Because of the way they handled it - he may have been there on the other side of the Chemical Warfare - & not wanting his parent to know this.... I never received any verification just one piece of paper indicating he was in the Army for a few wks...and discharge as an undesirable. OH, WELL, if someone can get records GO FOR it. WE couldn't! Life's a BITCH and then we DIE. The 25 yr thing is a REAL BITCH since we were told he was NOT a CO, but other things state differently. So was he in the ARMY willingly or was he there as a CO and being experimented on. A lot the CO's hid their status from their families so they would NOT worry about what was happening to them. FRANKLY what the CO's did was actually pretty damn brave. HAVE any of you read about the experiments they allow to be done on their bodies? I is GRUESOME. HAVE you seen the pictures of the bones and skin and the lesions? WE do know such was such experiments were being done in AL within Camp SIEBERT. The government didn't want to acknowledge that CHEMICAL warfare was being experimented on there. It was actually a pretty big secret back then about what they were submitting these CO's to - probably they were told to write the letters they wrote home...I can try to scan the letter and post it. I think that has already been done by Sluggo. Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #46182 January 17, 2014 DO U ever listen to anything or anyone other than yourself... the CHEMICAL WARFARE has been talked before. Duane Uncle helped develope it in WWI. Then there was the Balloon BOMBS in WA in WWII and at that time His Uncle was CALLED up again but served it as it in Public Service ( he had children and worked for Sherwin Williams). IT has been my opinion Duane was with his Uncle in WA during the time of the Balloon BOMBS from things Duane said and what his brother said.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #46183 January 17, 2014 Speaking of pointing things out. where exactly was Kenny? Also: Perhaps you can fill in some gaps here Robert. I was reading back into the thread and noticed a post of yours where you were talking about Geestman. you claim he went to his home in Bonney Lake (reason not needed) so, I looked up his name on the Pierce County Auditor's site looking for his name. his sisters name popped up which you seemly spelled wrong several times on this thread by giving this name Dawn J Andrusko, when the actual name is Dawn J AndrOsko. with no records dating back into the 70's? 1987 is the earliest. can you provide proof she was living in this area where she supposedly purchased a home in 1972 which she paid for with the $5,000 loan given to her by Kenny Christiansen? possibly provide the address of the home she purchased in 1972 so it can be cross checked for validation. I'm still going through the records on her, a lot of records with her name on them. do you know who a Elva Geestman would be? also the stamp/coin collection went from $400,000-$300,000 to the winning bid of $30,000 you once explained and extra zero was added by mistake thru email, how did you mistake $400,000"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 21 #46184 January 17, 2014 Bruce wrote Quote Many SOG troopers say that Ted Braden is Danny Boy. What say you? As I recall, the Ramparts Magazine article picture of Ted Braden showed blue or blue-green eyes, not brown. Brown contacts might have been used by Cooper but there is no evidence that this occurred. Braden's history is fascinating. How the hell did he duck prosecution for desertion and get reinstated (and possibly even promoted) like it never happened? What card was he holding that caused intervention on his behalf by General John Singlaub? Braden took careless risks in Vietnam and was criticized by his colleagues for unnecessarily putting them and the missions in danger. This trait could fit Cooper. Braden also apparently knew how to travel internationally with fake ID. The SOG guys who served with him have their reasons for suspecting Braden. It might be something intangible. They might see a signature, something about the crime that has Braden's particular touch. Braden is dead now. Ended up as a truck driver. His last occupation has always struck me as odd given his background and apparent thirst for living on the edge. Maybe he was hauling contraband. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #46185 January 17, 2014 mrshutter45***Go the site and explore all of the pages - it is in RED BOLD PRINT on certain files! If you GO there YOU will find the same thing - just like Terry did and some of the files have BEEN destroyed. THEY do not know what happened to them. Some files do remain. NOT all of the files have to be signed for with the 25 yr stipulations....but, if they are you aren't going to be able to access them - they have conveniently been "misplaced". One camp.....The records of the Big Flats CPS Camp #46 are restricted until the year 2025, the identity of the individual/s concerned may not be disclosed. Researchers wishing to use this material must sign a form agreeing to this stipulation before being allowed access to this part of the collection. camp #46 is located in New York.... You are just reading the 1st page. Pull the other things and go there - you will see that all over the place. Go on to the other places. YOU are only looking at ONE page....go the actual physical place they are stored. That statement is ALL over the place regarding other places. THIS is not just a CO site.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #46186 January 17, 2014 skyjack71******Go the site and explore all of the pages - it is in RED BOLD PRINT on certain files! If you GO there YOU will find the same thing - just like Terry did and some of the files have BEEN destroyed. THEY do not know what happened to them. Some files do remain. NOT all of the files have to be signed for with the 25 yr stipulations....but, if they are you aren't going to be able to access them - they have conveniently been "misplaced". One camp.....The records of the Big Flats CPS Camp #46 are restricted until the year 2025, the identity of the individual/s concerned may not be disclosed. Researchers wishing to use this material must sign a form agreeing to this stipulation before being allowed access to this part of the collection. camp #46 is located in New York.... You are just reading the 1st page. Pull the other things an go there - you will see that all over the place. Go on to the other places. YOU are only looking at ONE page. what's the stipulation then? it's one long page?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #46187 January 17, 2014 RobertMBlevinsI hate to point out the obvious here...but the main thing on Weber is where-he-was on-or-about 11/24/1971. Not what he did in an unsuccessful, short-term, Army/Navy career. I'm not trying to be harsh here. But let's face facts. I can actually PROVE that Kenneth Peter Christiansen was one of around 80 or so guys in a 280-man training unit for paratroopers...guys who jumped at night, over water sometimes, in the most intense paratrooper training ever done during WW2. (Because an invasion of Japan at that time seemed VERY likely) And he passed. And yet, that fact does not prove Kenneth Peter Christiansen was actually DB Cooper. So I'm not seeing the point of this whole discussion. What's needed here for Weber is something a bit more up to date than what he was doing twenty-five years or so BEFORE the hijacking, unless it directly relates to the hijacking itself. And I am not seeing that at all. why? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 21 #46188 January 17, 2014 skyjack71*** Some one trained in freefall jumps, stationed in, or from the region (and currently back in it, to acclimate like you mentioned). I think there is a good chance there might be a few layers under the suit, so the weather might not have been as tough on him. Some one with a knowledge of survival skills, and a healthy respect for the environment. One with a plan and a few plan B's as well. Not some one who "wings it" and hopes luck will win out. Matt Then Jo writesQuoteOpinions such as your - are exactly how and why Cooper was never found. Jo, Nobody can say that with any certainty. It's a pure guess on your part and shows bias. Until Cooper is identified nobody knows why he wasn't identified earlier. You think he has already been identified and was Duane Weber. That colors everything you do, say or think. SOG soldiers were qualified jumpers. Some did extreme ops, night recon jumps into the enemy jungle. Scary risky stuff. You have yet to present ANY credible evidence that Duane ever jumped. Hanging around smoke jumpers and or aircraft mechanics or pilots doesn't count. You've also never presented evidence that Duane successfully planned and executed any complex crime. His extensive arrest and conviction record strongly suggests that he was incapable of it. I've no proof that either Peterson or Braden was Cooper but they sure have a huge head start over Duane by simple virtue of their proven skill sets and relevant experience. Cooper didn't have to be a jumper. I do admit that. Farflung and Snow convinced me of that, but my admittedly biased opinion says he was either a jumper or aircrew associated with airdrop ops. I can recognize and admit my own bias. Can you Jo? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #46189 January 17, 2014 Quote I can recognize and admit my own bias. Can you Jo? 377 Yea, but you guys aren't opening all of the WINDOW! I don't know who to show that to you. Go to Baltimore and see for yourself!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 21 #46190 January 17, 2014 Snowmman informs me that a DUI record for Braden in 2002 shows: Braden, Ted B. DOB: 1928/09/24 Sex: Male Hgt: 5' 08" Wgt: 165 Eye: Hazel Hair: Gray or Partially Gray Social Security: xxx-xx-4946 Hazel eyes. Hmmm.. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #46191 January 17, 2014 Quote "...Hey Bruce...aren't YOU from the North Pierce area? Hmm.... Nope. South Pierce. But I know people in North Pierce. Maybe I was part of the ground team.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #46192 January 17, 2014 377Snowmman informs me that a DUI record for Braden in 2003 shows: Braden, Ted B. DOB: 1928/09/24 Sex: Male Hgt: 5' 08" Wgt: 165 Eye: Hazel Hair: Gray or Partially Gray Social Security: xxx-xx-4946 Hazel eyes. Hmmm.. 377 Yup. But Ted has the smirk. In spades. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #46193 January 17, 2014 QuoteI can recognize and admit my own bias. Can you Jo? 377 Yea, but you guys aren't opening all of the WINDOW! I don't know who to show that to you. Go to Baltimore and see for yourself!BALTIMORE! I love it! I can be there in a couple of days. Give me directions on where I should go from Camden Yards. Oh, by the way, Mrs. Cooper, what am I looking for, exactly? Also, when I left NY last week it was 11 degrees, so I'd be careful about telling people to open ALL of the window... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 21 #46194 January 17, 2014 BruceSmith***Snowmman informs me that a DUI record for Braden in 2003 shows: Braden, Ted B. DOB: 1928/09/24 Sex: Male Hgt: 5' 08" Wgt: 165 Eye: Hazel Hair: Gray or Partially Gray Social Security: xxx-xx-4946 Hazel eyes. Hmmm.. 377 Yup. But Ted has the smirk. In spades. Corrected my earlier post. Teds DUI arrest was 2002 not 2003.2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 21 #46195 January 17, 2014 Braden's 2002 arrest. See attached records. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVickiW 0 #46196 January 17, 2014 377 Bruce wrote Quote Many SOG troopers say that Ted Braden is Danny Boy. What say you? As I recall, the Ramparts Magazine article picture of Ted Braden showed blue or blue-green eyes, not brown. Brown contacts might have been used by Cooper but there is no evidence that this occurred. Braden's history is fascinating. How the hell did he duck prosecution for desertion and get reinstated (and possibly even promoted) like it never happened? What card was he holding that caused intervention on his behalf by General John Singlaub? Braden took careless risks in Vietnam and was criticized by his colleagues for unnecessarily putting them and the missions in danger. This trait could fit Cooper. Braden also apparently knew how to travel internationally with fake ID. The SOG guys who served with him have their reasons for suspecting Braden. It might be something intangible. They might see a signature, something about the crime that has Braden's particular touch. Braden is dead now. Ended up as a truck driver. His last occupation has always struck me as odd given his background and apparent thirst for living on the edge. Maybe he was hauling contraband. 377 Cooper's eyes were seen by Florence for a few seconds when he looked over the top of his glasses. This is what I have heard before, here in the forum and in articles. It also has been discussed in this forum that Cooper may have had amphetamines on his person. Unfortunately, I do not have a source for these last two statements, but here is what I have always wondered. Eyes dilate for many different reasons. Alcohol and drug use (included prescriptions), mental strain, anxiety and stress, low lighting (behind sunglasses, low light in the cabin), etc. His eyes could have been dilated for these reasons alone, making any eye color seem dark, black or brown. Should a suspect who matches other physical characteristics, such as; approximate age, height, weight, hair color and style of Cooper be dismissed alone on his eye color? The FBI wanted poster states his eyes were "possibly brown" (attached). Resources explaining eye dilation: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=eye-opener-why-do-pupils-dialate http://www.calmclinic.com/anxiety/symptoms/pupilMelvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkBennett 5 #46197 January 17, 2014 RobertMBlevins['Nothing more on Kenny publicly. NOTHING. We wait until the Cooperland ms is ready for release and anything we have to say on him will be said THEN. And we will verify anything said with documented proof of same...' Robert, I'm sorry. This just sounds bad. It's like watching Ron Ziegler or other press spokesman claiming he can't answer questions because of some contrived policy. If someone else made a statement like that on here, you'd be all over them, and rightfully so. All you're doing is creating the impression in others that you don't really want the facts on Kenny to come out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sailshaw 0 #46198 January 17, 2014 377 Ted Braden and Kenney Christansen were both tooooo short at 5ft 8in. Eye color could have been modified with cosmetic brown contact lens, which were available at that time so actors could change their blue eyes to brown for playing Asian characters. However, when you are 5ft 8in you are just too short and not much would be done to gain 4 inches. That alone should disqualify both Ted and Kenney, period as not a likely suspect. Eye color and brown contacts would explain why DB made sure that both Flight Attendants saw the color of his eyes as brown before wearing the sun glasses the rest of the time. Everything DB did was for a purpose and the eye color was the one big thing he did for his disguise. Bob Sailshaw [email protected] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #46199 January 17, 2014 "I can answer some of those questions, yes. But not now. As I have told you multiple times, all new information regarding Kenny Christiansen is restricted on public forums." Oh, I see. it's ok for you to talk about it, but you won't say anything about it. kind of like I said before about the FBI & Robert Blevins. haven't you been whining about the FBI not discussing the Amboy chute, so in return you think they are covering things up? if you refuse to answer questions on here. you don't belong here. the questions asked have nothing to do with any book you are writing in the future. I expect you will not mention KC for any reason in the future on this form since you wish to DODGE questions about him. this would be considered fair. no examples, references, no agree/disagree about anyone saying something about KC on this FORUM. It's Androsko not Andrusko. that was really bothering me. especially coming from a writer. some would believe you deliberately did that. unlike Shoo-in not Shoe-in. also, as Mark Bennett mentioned. I thought your book was not surrounding KC? similar to your response about not talking about KC at your little thingy you were trying to do in August. I seem to recall you saying Decoded was going to start it off? a page or so back you claimed you were not going to discuss KC. flip flop, flip flop."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #46200 January 17, 2014 MarkBennett ***['Nothing more on Kenny publicly. NOTHING. We wait until the Cooperland ms is ready for release and anything we have to say on him will be said THEN. And we will verify anything said with documented proof of same...' Robert, I'm sorry. This just sounds bad. It's like watching Ron Ziegler or other press spokesman claiming he can't answer questions because of some contrived policy. If someone else made a statement like that on here, you'd be all over them, and rightfully so. All you're doing is creating the impression in others that you don't really want the facts on Kenny to come out. I think it's also fair to submit the fact that he is willfully allowing false information to remain on is website that clearly show faults in his investigation into Kenny Christiansen. he has admitted to these facts and said they would be corrected. this well over a month ago. wait, let's do it like he would. he said he would fix the error's. this was last year he mentioned this! This damages what little credibility he thinks he has. he seems to feel comfortable blasting the FBI for sloppy, or inaccurate conclusions to certain parts of the DB Cooper case. how can someone acting like this be trusted for anything? he has no affiliation to any major news groups or anyone he would have explain his actions to other than himself. he claims he receives substantial amounts of interest by email about Kenny Christiansen, as well as the case itself with acknowledged faults in his findings. a person such as this has no right to conclude anything further on this thread in my opinion. his actions are in very poor taste. He should have had a response from Tom Kaye, but I'm sure he will give some sort of tight lipped excuse on that as well. Mr. Blevins seems to believe he has some sort of Governmental status where he doesn't have to explain himself. This thread is designed for going over evidence found in the DB Cooper case. something Mr. Blevins had no problem with post after post talking about his evidence about Kenny Christiansen. once flaws started surfacing he quickly buttoned up and now takes the 5th amendment. Insert Reality Hotel Thingy perhaps?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
