DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

skyjack71

Duane hit an officer in war time in the Navy - and then he got booted out if the NAVY. Remember the FBI was adamant that Duane had never been in the Army and then when called down by me in 2000 claimed they have his army number wrong (HELL they had a copy of it from the records so how did the make that kind of mistake).

At any rate finally they looked at the file AGAIN after the agent said SOMEONE had come in and he would call me back in a few hours.

When he called back he said they had a NUMBER incorrect. Now HOW do you do THAT. It was 2000 and they dismissed Duane in 1998 and said DUANE had never been in the ARMY. Bare in mind it is then 2000 and I am the one who has to call them on the BOARD! If Doug Pasternac had not found the Army record - they WOULD never have corrected that part of their investigation.

Per a letter to his mother, it seems Duane willingly went into the Army, but one has to wonder! He got kicked out in a few wks and we never could find out if it was something he did or if they found out about the Bad Conduct Discharge from the Navy!

Whatever! THIS is the kind of investigation I & others had to put up with and NO apology for the mistakes the FBI made.

They are investigating Weber for the first unsolved skyjacking and they can't even get his criminal and military records straight....

His wife and a new reporter had to find the ARMY Record - one the FBI denied since 1996 and until March of 2000.
WHY!

Without the letter he wrote from the base we never would have found his Army records! It took actually going to the ARCHIVES. THE FBI and the VA denied his Army Status even after I had the papers from Washington and until I took action myself in 2000!

All the VA would tell me even after that was - YOU ARE NOT LISTED AS A RELATIVE. I HAD TO TELL THE MAN - THAT I WAS ONLY 3 YRS OLD WHEN DUANE WAS IN THE ARMY AND I DIDN'T MEET HIM UNTIL 1977 AND MARRIED HIM IN 1978. I wanted a detailed record of his Army stay - it was denied. WE did get the details of his Navy record.

Because of the way they handled it - he may have been there on the other side of the Chemical Warfare - & not wanting his parent to know this....

I never received any verification just one piece of paper indicating he was in the Army for a few wks...and discharge as an undesirable.

OH, WELL, if someone can get records GO FOR it. WE couldn't!

Life's a BITCH and then we DIE.
The 25 yr thing is a REAL BITCH since we were told he was NOT a CO, but other things state differently. So was he in the ARMY willingly or was he there as a CO and being experimented on. A lot the CO's hid their status from their families so they would NOT worry about what was happening to them.

FRANKLY what the CO's did was actually pretty damn brave. HAVE any of you read about the experiments they allow to be done on their bodies?

I is GRUESOME.

HAVE you seen the pictures of the bones and skin and the lesions? WE do know such was such experiments were being done in AL within Camp SIEBERT.

The government didn't want to acknowledge that CHEMICAL warfare was being experimented on there.

It was actually a pretty big secret back then about what they were submitting these CO's to - probably they were told to write the letters they wrote home...I can try to scan the letter and post it. I think that has already been done by Sluggo.

After I posted the above yesterday and those who might be in the know changed the direction of the thread very quickly to make the above subject go POOF!

The Camp Siebert thing has always bugged me and I had forgotten about the CO's contained on that base in a separate facilities some ways away from the actual base activities. An area that was later claimed to be contaminated.

I do NOT even know the location of all of my old files on Camp Siebert - as they might be in the storage rental. I did keep a limited file on hand and I can't even find that at this time. I remembered the story about some of the experiments - and the victims had to be sure they didn't keep them enclosed over the time limits set by the testing authorities.

WHY having a watch was very important!

The FBI kept denying that Weber was ever in the ARMY and at Camp Siebert. It was only the letter Duane wrote to his parents requesting they keep his location secret.

Some of the things I never told about Duane Weber now make sense - the trip we made to Ft. Benning and the man he went to see in a small town not far from there. The quarters he pointed out saying that is where we stayed and just over to another area was where they jumped.

These human guinea pigs were allowed facilities and recreation w/training that might allow them to be serviceable for other means.

The CO's were third class citizens as far as the military was concerned and used for menial positions that meant they were a human body being utilized for the war effort. The guys just didn't have to KILL someone and were considered cowards... Many of them went into the medical field and other occupations.

The WAR effort was consuming that generation and until the guys started to come home - things had to be done and the CO's were the manpower that filled the gaps left state side.

Did Cooper have a GRUDGE! WHY did Tina ask him that question!

When Duane came up as a suspect the FBI claimed he was NEVER in the army. Had it not have been for my persistence and the brother making a copy of that letter - I would NEVER have been able to prove Duane was at Camp Siebert.

When I confronted the FBI was in 2000 and right now I do not remember the date Duane's brother sent me that letter. I believe I know the conversation John was going to have with me in 0004 in CA. Duane was an embarassment to his family - because of his inability to perform during WAR time.

The FBI had nothing to do with the concealment of the file and may have been unaware of it other than my insistence. The Army number was not even available on military records UNTIL a brilliant young man actually went and found the ARMY number - but NO file.

This may explain a mysterious trip Duane made and monies made available in 1989 or 1990. The period of time we spent in the Birmingham area was a dark period - Duane seemed different, but I just could not put my finger on it. I thought it was the stress of the kidney machine looming in the near future and his not being able to provide his share of the income.

The trip back to FT. Benning did NOT happen until he went on the kidney machine - he had to go back and face his demons. The phycologist probably was told everything and was a kidney transplant patient himself.

Duane had to realize his situation was hereditary and not inflicted on him. This explaines that very DARK period.

MORE important was the fact the authorities were adamant Weber had never been in the Army - yet he had an ARMY number on file and that file was his file. I expect the PC became apparent during the Camp Siebert era of his life and then he became a career criminal. NO one would hire him with his record.

Then in 1962 he meets someone who gave him the opportunity to be all he could be - but, they utilizied the fact he was a bad boy and that is when all of the N.Orleans things came down. He was expendible! He proved to be loyal and a survior and able to keep secrets - he was rewarded for this.

Remember Duane ended up with good job and a decent income - not on not on the streets or in prison as others as other with his background had gone that directions. 1962 to 1966 - he was John Collins and even encarcerated under that name in 1966 until 1988. THEN he ends up STAYING out touble & the FBI even denied he was in Jefferson until I hounded them on it.

There is more than one explanation for the background of Weber - but, it is certainly not in the norm anyway you look at it.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[smokin99 0]

RobertMBlevins

What a joke. No wonder nothing ever gets done on this thread. Half of you are busy making stupid comments about the other half. It's no surprise that anyone new who drops by ends up leaving soon afterward.

lol...got any mirrors in that office of yours?

According to their site, Tom Kaye and company looked at some of the evidence in 2009 and 2011.

Tom Kaye and company jumped to conclusions on several points.

One of these was that they "concurred" that the parachute was first generation nylon and not silk - even though by their own admission they had never examined the chute. This is, in my opinion, not only sloppy but irresponsible. They cannot and should not make any conclusions about something that they have not seen. They didn't even cage it with a "we think because.....".

In the notes they caveat with a "research shows that it is likely....." but the body of the main text makes it appear that the parachute is not silk. How can they know that?

I respect the work, time, expense that Tom Kay and company expended on this case and think their contribution is a good one. But they are not infallible - and their work has holes. My major disappointment is that they tended to jump to conclusions and used a little too much speculation. There are other areas where the claims were - maybe not specious - but certainly presupposing outcomes without actual scientific proof.

But silk or nylon, whether you like it or not, based on final news reports it appears that the FBI did their due diligence in vetting the chute - aside from Cossey.

If they wanted to hide from the truth they never would have re-ignited the case in the first place. But I have no doubt that they are not publicizing everything that they know.

This is also alluded to on Tom Kaye's website ......"The FBI has requested that specific information not be released publicly, so this is an overview of the evidence".

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[skyjack71 0]

Your "investigation" of KC was a complete FRAUD!

You have distracted the public and the thread long enough! Even when faced with the FACTS - you continue to banter and offer excuses.

Perhaps you are part of the COOPER COVERUP actions - but that is not the case - YOU are into this for a STORY, regardless of whose image you damage. Your 'witnesses' and the thread and every place that has helped probagate your "story" should take actions against you.

Perhaps the same thing can be said about Jo Weber (me), but I have not made one penney off of this - I refused the book offers and a movie offer. My battle has been to PROVE he was Cooper and if Weber was not Cooper - he took me on the longest and most time consuming venture few would dare travel. The more I learned the more I wanted to know

My reasons for going forward are completely different than those you projected. I am tired of the battle and I am tired of YOU and others LIKE you.

At least I lived with and knew the subject Duane L. Weber. I have learned things about Weber I do not like, but that does NOT change the person he became. It is late in my life and I have never wanted ANYTHING other than to know who he really was. I have learned a lot about Weber - but, they only enforced the obstactles he over came.

It is a given - he was no COWARD and he helped a lot of PEOPLE and was very focused...YET, he was as some have said "A COMMON CRIMINAL".

Well, I think perhaps he was a VERY UNCOMMON CRIMINAL - he did manage to turn his life around. There was only ONE person in all of the individuals from Duane's Past I was able to find that called him a BASTARD or had BAD memories of him. All I have is the word of the person making the claim...but the situation got pretty nasty. There are alway 2 sides to a story!

YES, I do believe he was Cooper and if by some slim chance he was not then he knew WHO Cooper was. If the FBI is completely positive without any doubt he was not Cooper - THEY need to investigate those individuals in his past and who he knew!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

One of these was that they "concurred" that the parachute was first generation nylon and not silk - even though by their own admission they had never examined the chute. This is, in my opinion, not only sloppy but irresponsible. They cannot and should not make any conclusions about something that they have not seen. They didn't even cage it with a "we think because.....".

If I were to make an educated guess about an educated guess...

It might be because the likelihood of ANY silk parachute being used for anything in the last 50-60 years that would have found it residing underground is slim to none. And that any silk parachute buried for even 1/2 that amount of time would probably be in much worse shape.

That said - agree 100%, you don't make factual inferences without anything to back it up...and offer an investigative opinion on an article of evidence you've not actually 'tested'.


Weak

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[mrshutter45 21]

smokin99

***
What a joke. No wonder nothing ever gets done on this thread. Half of you are busy making stupid comments about the other half. It's no surprise that anyone new who drops by ends up leaving soon afterward.

lol...got any mirrors in that office of yours?

According to their site, Tom Kaye and company looked at some of the evidence in 2009 and 2011.

Tom Kaye and company jumped to conclusions on several points.

One of these was that they "concurred" that the parachute was first generation nylon and not silk - even though by their own admission they had never examined the chute. This is, in my opinion, not only sloppy but irresponsible. They cannot and should not make any conclusions about something that they have not seen. They didn't even cage it with a "we think because.....".

In the notes they caveat with a "research shows that it is likely....." but the body of the main text makes it appear that the parachute is not silk. How can they know that?

I respect the work, time, expense that Tom Kay and company expended on this case and think their contribution is a good one. But they are not infallible - and their work has holes. My major disappointment is that they tended to jump to conclusions and used a little too much speculation. There are other areas where the claims were - maybe not specious - but certainly presupposing outcomes without actual scientific proof.

But silk or nylon, whether you like it or not, based on final news reports it appears that the FBI did their due diligence in vetting the chute - aside from Cossey.

If they wanted to hide from the truth they never would have re-ignited the case in the first place. But I have no doubt that they are not publicizing everything that they know.

This is also alluded to on Tom Kaye's website ......"The FBI has requested that specific information not be released publicly, so this is an overview of the evidence".


You have to wonder if the FBI took any pictures of the original chutes prior to getting on the plane? do they have pictures of the money prior to getting on the plane. I mean in the form of the bag to the plane. not the microfilm of each bill. if so, it's funny that none of the individuals looking over the evidence reported such finds? I seriously doubt they showed them all the cards. did they see any evidence of microfilm anywhere? did they access a machine for viewing?

The FBI turned over the Alcatraz file to the Marshal's office. look how old that case is. 1962. they haven't release the information on that either. hundreds of cases fall into the release clause by age if you ask me. it's up to the them unfortunately. what would they do to these guys from Alcatraz and DB Cooper if they did catch them? lock them up for life?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

airtwardo

Quote

One of these was that they "concurred" that the parachute was first generation nylon and not silk - even though by their own admission they had never examined the chute. This is, in my opinion, not only sloppy but irresponsible. They cannot and should not make any conclusions about something that they have not seen. They didn't even cage it with a "we think because.....".

If I were to make an educated guess about an educated guess...

It might be because the likelihood of ANY silk parachute being used for anything in the last 50-60 years that would have found it residing underground is slim to none. And that any silk parachute buried for even 1/2 that amount of time would probably be in much worse shape.

That said - agree 100%, you don't make factual inferences without anything to back it up...and offer an investigative opinion on an article of evidence you've not actually 'tested'.


Weak

One more thing I meant to mention....

Cossey made his statement about it being silk on about the 28th. On April 1, ckret made the following post:

"I am not sure about it being silk, if it was, it was not in the ground that long"

So if Carr wasn't sure about the silk, then it would seem as if he must have had more than Cossey and his silk statement to go on to make the final determination.

Edited to add...this also leads me to ask - how do we know it was buried that long? ...could this have been someone's idea of an April Fools joke to say they found a buried chute?

Questions to airtwardo or other jumpers --

What's your opinion on the chute being one of the those given to Cooper as far as the age of the chute goes?

What's the oldest chute you've jumped with?

What's the likelihood of Cossey packing an old canopy in a chute for Hayden's emergency rig?

Would a sky diving club have rules to follow about the age of the chutes that they rented or gave out?
Thanks

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

"Larry Carr, the special agent in charge of the case out of the FBI's Seattle field office, said the FBI couldn't confirm anything tonight. The FBI wants to take one more step Tuesday, Carr said, and then may be ready to comment."

this was after Cossey concluded it was silk.....March 31, 2008

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

What's the likelihood of Cossey packing an old canopy in a chute for Hayden's emergency rig?

I suggested that long ago, but I didn't word it right or my posting was ignore or buried in a long post.

Glad someone posed it in a manner that might get a response.

I do KNOW if they tested it & it was silk - it was not in the ground Unprotected against the elements for 40 yrs!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[smokin99 0]

mrshutter45

"Larry Carr, the special agent in charge of the case out of the FBI's Seattle field office, said the FBI couldn't confirm anything tonight. The FBI wants to take one more step Tuesday, Carr said, and then may be ready to comment."

this was after Cossey concluded it was silk.....March 31, 2008

Yes, that's my point exactly.....and Burroughs was also reported on April 1 as saying that they were waiting on one more thing before making final determination. So it appears that "perhaps" silk was not the deciding factor as some have assumed.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[skyjack71 0]

mrshutter45

The FBI turned over the Alcatraz file to the Marshal's office. look how old that case is. 1962. they haven't release the information on that either. hundreds of cases fall into the release clause by age if you ask me. it's up to the them unfortunately. what would they do to these guys from Alcatraz and DB Cooper if they did catch them? lock them up for life?

Probably the VERY best STATEMENT
made in regards to the lack of any investigation made in the last few yrs.


Odd to others - you compared the Alcatraz Escape to Cooper, but then NOT odd to me at all. I thought this man was one of the Escapees, but I was told NO WAY! Guess I just see things no one else does - but, then who was he?

Like Tommy Gunn and John Collins - they didn't exist....Weber sure knew a lot of guys who had no past - yea, why not - he was just a common criminal.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

smokin99

***"Larry Carr, the special agent in charge of the case out of the FBI's Seattle field office, said the FBI couldn't confirm anything tonight. The FBI wants to take one more step Tuesday, Carr said, and then may be ready to comment."

this was after Cossey concluded it was silk.....March 31, 2008

Yes, that's my point exactly.....and Burroughs was also reported on April 1 as saying that they were waiting on one more thing before making final determination. So it appears that "perhaps" silk was not the deciding factor as some have assumed.

agreed, I'm sure all of use would like a better explanation, but as I mentioned before, I don't think the FBI really cares what we think. it just doesn't make sense to go through all of the hype of reporting the chute, and turn around and cover up the findings.

The FBI is far from perfect. The US Marshal's found evidence supporting a raft was found the next day after the escape from Alcatraz.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[377 21]

Quote

Questions to airtwardo or other jumpers --

What's your opinion on the chute being one of the those given to Cooper as far as the age of the chute goes?

Not a chance it was a Cooper canopy. That's my opinion. Too old, not ripstop, and too big for the NB6 or NB8 containers. I don't think it was silk. My bet is nylon twill.

Quote

What's the oldest chute you've jumped with?

I was jumping a 1951 USAF 28 ft C9 round canopy as my main and a 1956 USN 26 Ft Conical as my reserve until 1979. Both were made of ripstop nylon. I still have the Navy Conical canopy and it's in great shape. I'd jump with it today if I had to.

Twill (non ripstop) military surplus reserve canopies killed a few jumpers when they ripped in high speed deployments. I never saw any used after 1969. They were considered structurally unsound.

Riggers will know more than I do about when twill surplus canopies stopped being used in emergency rigs. FAA TSOs play a role in what can be legally packed.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[smokin99 0]

skyjack71

Quote

What's the likelihood of Cossey packing an old canopy in a chute for Hayden's emergency rig?

I suggested that long ago, but I didn't word it right or my posting was ignore or buried in a long post.

Glad someone posed it in a manner that might get a response.

I do KNOW if they tested it & it was silk - it was not in the ground Unprotected against the elements for 40 yrs!

Jo...here's the problem with making absolute statements like that...I have just gone out and googled two excavations of WWII plane crashes, circa 1942-3, that included buried parachutes that are in relatively okay shape for having been buried.

And then, of course there is always the chance the chute was not buried that long to start with for whatever reason.

As to there being zero chance of a 1946 chute being silk, I have found parachutes on ebay circa 45 and 46 that are claimed to be silk. I have found company biographies that speak to converting to making silk parachutes due to the war during the mid to later 40s, and, frankly, I just don't believe intuitively that manufacturing stops on a dime. If they had silk in stock, they used it all regardless of the import situation. Not only that, purchasers of silk likely knew this was coming and likely increased their orders before the gate got shut.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

377

Quote

Questions to airtwardo or other jumpers --

What's your opinion on the chute being one of the those given to Cooper as far as the age of the chute goes?

Not a chance it was a Cooper canopy. That's my opinion. Too old, not ripstop, and too big for the NB6 or NB8 containers. I don't think it was silk. My bet is nylon twill.

***What's the oldest chute you've jumped with?

I was jumping a 1951 USAF 28 ft C9 round canopy as my main and a 1956 USN 26 Ft Conical as my reserve until 1979. Both were made of ripstop nylon. I still have the Navy Conical canopy and it's in great shape. I'd jump with it today if I had to.

Twill (non ripstop) military surplus reserve canopies killed a few jumpers when they ripped in high speed deployments. I never saw any used after 1969. They were considered structurally unsound.

Riggers will know more than I do about when twill surplus canopies stopped being used in emergency rigs. FAA TSOs play a role in what can be legally packed.

377

Thanks for your response.

Carr also said that he did not know if it was silk and this was after Cossey examined it and said it was.

Additionally, the FBI - though they jumped the gun initially on the description (markings) of the chute corrected the record once they realized that they were wrong.

It was reported that the FBI consulted others, and both Carr and Burroughs made the statement that they were waiting on one more piece of information before reporting their final determination. This was after Cossey had examined and after Cossey's statements had been reported.

All of these things together would seem to point to possibility that the FBI did not rely only on Cossey to make the determination.

And the logical points that you mention about parachutes would tend to skew the argument in favor of it not being Cooper's chute anyway. Do you think Carr or any likewise informed whuffo would have been able to recognize ripstop?

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

***

Quote

Questions to airtwardo or other jumpers --

What's your opinion on the chute being one of the those given to Cooper as far as the age of the chute goes?

Not a chance it was a Cooper canopy. That's my opinion. Too old, not ripstop, and too big for the NB6 or NB8 containers. I don't think it was silk. My bet is nylon twill.

***What's the oldest chute you've jumped with?

I was jumping a 1951 USAF 28 ft C9 round canopy as my main and a 1956 USN 26 Ft Conical as my reserve until 1979. Both were made of ripstop nylon. I still have the Navy Conical canopy and it's in great shape. I'd jump with it today if I had to.

Twill (non ripstop) military surplus reserve canopies killed a few jumpers when they ripped in high speed deployments. I never saw any used after 1969. They were considered structurally unsound.

Riggers will know more than I do about when twill surplus canopies stopped being used in emergency rigs. FAA TSOs play a role in what can be legally packed.

377

Okay. You have jumped with military rigs as old or older as that 1946 canopy from Amboy. (Using timeframe of Hayden purchasing chutes in 1968, as he said in his phone interview) Sounds reasonable. I saw certified rigs at eBay in the same time frame. (older than twenty years)

Here are the basic problems, though:

1) You have Cossey, the go-to guy for the Seattle FBI, saying the canopy is silk. That is unlikely. He told this to literally a dozen reporters or more.

2) You have an FBI agent saying the chute is the 'right size'. No further explanation given.

3) The normally thorough FBI doesn't even notice there are two markings on the chute for days after they recovered it.

4) Hard to tell exactly from the pictures if the chute is twill nylon or ripstop. The DOM might have a bearing here, if you can establish when the military switched out of twill. If it's definitely after 1946, then it could be twill and in that case it is very unlikely a Cooper chute.

5) Where is the container and harness? And why did someone bother to bury the remaining canopy? That question really has no answer unless you determine whether or not it is a Cooper chute. If it is, then you will know why. If not, it is hard to say. One thing is certain. It didn't hit the ground, remove its own harness and container, and bury itself.

6) Why did Curtis Eng refuse access to the same people whom they trusted previously with the other evidence? And when Tom Kaye asked, why didn't Eng just say 'Don't bother, it isn't the chute anyway.' You would think a guy like Kaye, whom the FBI trusted enough to turn over the money samples, the other parachute, etc would deserve at least a brief explanation from Eng on why Kaye's team can't examine it. Kaye also says he asked Eng about the chute in person.

7) In articles, Cossey is often repeated with the same thing. The chute, he says, is silk and not nylon, and that's why it can't be Cooper's. But more significant is when he tells the Oregonian BEFORE he was shown the chute that he probably can't ID it without the container and harness and thinks the FBI is 'barking up the wrong tree'. The problem with that statement is that Cossey already knew from news reports that it was a full-size parachute and not a scrap, or a pilot chute this time. And he knew it was found in the same area many people believe Cooper jumped. Even the FBI says it's the 'A' area. This makes it look as if Cossey was preparing to write off the chute no matter what the FBI brings him to examine. In a later article, he says 'it (his examination) was over in ten seconds'. You can infer what you wish on that, but he DID say that.

8) Tom Kaye, the same guy the Seattle FBI trusted with the other evidence, including a chute that is known to be given to Cooper, is completely rebuffed when he makes inquiries to Curtis Eng about the Amboy chute. If the chute was disposed of, or not considered evidence, you would think Eng would at least give him that courtesy.

'A totality of the information'
'It's silk, and the one I gave Cooper was nylon'
'It's MY chute. Of course I would recognize it'

Have you tried talking to Betty White about how silk ages?

[377 21]

Quote

Do you think Carr or any likewise informed whuffo would have been able to recognize ripstop?

Absolutely. Ripstop is EASILY recognizable and looks very different than twill. I have examined photos of the Amboy canopy. The one showing the mfr data has decent resolution. I'm very sure that the canopy material is twill not ripstop.

To me there are a lot of unanswered questions about the Amboy canopy. but none of them link it to Norjack.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[mrshutter45 21]

"And then, of course there is always the chance the chute was not buried that long to start with for whatever reason."

it was in the search area and yet nobody seen it. could of been covered with brush, but that would of died off and exposed it. was it in a ball as you would think it would be if you were trying to conceal it. it was discovered half out of the ground, what was it's position 2, 3+ years prior?

let's assume it was Cooper's chute. how does this help the FBI? they can't ask the public for help. does it help there reputation? they have to already know it's bruised from not solving the case, so where does lying about the chute help anything? then we assume there not lying about anything else, just the chute? Really?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[377 21]

Blevins wrote

Quote

Here are the basic problems, though:

1) You have Cossey, the go-to guy for the Seattle FBI, saying the canopy is silk. That is unlikely. He told this to literally a dozen reporters or more.

Cossey is not a reliable witness. He was highly qualified to opine on parachute matters but what he said was often incorrect. Sometimes he was joking. Other times he was deliberately misleading. You just couldn't depend on him being consistently accurate and truthful.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

I am not Betty White she has 10 yrs on me - isn't she in her 80's.

You guys totally loose me with the chutes - 1st it one thing and then it seems you flip flop and it is back to another thing. I just know Nylon can last forever it seems, but silk does not have a good life time unless it is kept in a controled enviroment - such as silk lamp shades and silk dresses.

The only way I believe the Amboy Chute could have been involved with Cooper is if it was packed inside of the Dummy front pak. The container was made of WHAT? First the container has to rot and then what is inside is exposed.

Just illogical old woman thinking. Like I said this entire silk chute conversation is over my head.

I will let the experts make the call!
No me - I am not Blevins.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[smokin99 0]

mrshutter45

"And then, of course there is always the chance the chute was not buried that long to start with for whatever reason."

it was in the search area and yet nobody seen it. could of been covered with brush, but that would of died off and exposed it. was it in a ball as you would think it would be if you were trying to conceal it. it was discovered half out of the ground, what was it's position 2, 3+ years prior?

let's assume it was Cooper's chute. how does this help the FBI? they can't ask the public for help. does it help there reputation? they have to already know it's bruised from not solving the case, so where does lying about the chute help anything? then we assume there not lying about anything else, just the chute? Really?

The story that I remember is that the father was grading the road and the blade caught the corner or edge and pulled it partially out of the ground. Could be that it was inadvertently "buried" when the road was cut as opposed to purposefully buried by someone.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[airtwardo 6]

skyjack71

I am not Betty White she has 10 yrs on me - isn't she in her 80's.

You guys totally loose me with the chutes - 1st it one thing and then it seems you flip flop and it is back to another thing. I just know Nylon can last forever it seems, but silk does not have a good life time unless it is kept in a controled enviroment - such as silk lamp shades and silk dresses.

The only way I believe the Amboy Chute could have been involved with Cooper is if it was packed inside of the Dummy front pak. The container was made of WHAT? First the container has to rot and then what is inside is exposed.

Just illogical old woman thinking. Like I said this entire silk chute conversation is over my head.

I will let the experts make the call!
No me - I am not Blevins.

Interesting point Jo -

The container could have been nylon or cotton.

Does anybody know what WAS inside of the 'dummy' chute?

*They were used as a training aid for students going through a 1st jump course...one could actually pull the reserve ripcord while going through their emergency procedures, and not have a bunch of parachute jump out & slow things down.

I've seen everything from a blanket to rags to non-airworthy canopies packed inside of the containers to give the simulation of proper size and weight during training...the were usually sewn shut with a 'Training Aid' or 'Do Not Jump' label on the front.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[mrshutter45 21]

airtwardo

***I am not Betty White she has 10 yrs on me - isn't she in her 80's.

You guys totally loose me with the chutes - 1st it one thing and then it seems you flip flop and it is back to another thing. I just know Nylon can last forever it seems, but silk does not have a good life time unless it is kept in a controled enviroment - such as silk lamp shades and silk dresses.

The only way I believe the Amboy Chute could have been involved with Cooper is if it was packed inside of the Dummy front pak. The container was made of WHAT? First the container has to rot and then what is inside is exposed.

Just illogical old woman thinking. Like I said this entire silk chute conversation is over my head.

I will let the experts make the call!
No me - I am not Blevins.

Interesting point Jo -

The container could have been nylon or cotton.

Does anybody know what WAS inside of the 'dummy' chute?

*They were used as a training aid for students going through a 1st jump course...one could actually pull the reserve ripcord while going through their emergency procedures, and not have a bunch of parachute jump out & slow things down.

I've seen everything from a blanket to rags to non-airworthy canopies packed inside of the containers to give the simulation of proper size and weight during training...the were usually sewn shut with a 'Training Aid' or 'Do Not Jump' label on the front.

Carr explained that a white canopy was i the container. it was the chute that was sewn together making it easier to train with. I don't have his quote at the moment.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

skyjack71

I am not Betty White she has 10 yrs on me - isn't she in her 80's.

You guys totally loose me with the chutes - 1st it one thing and then it seems you flip flop and it is back to another thing. I just know Nylon can last forever it seems, but silk does not have a good life time unless it is kept in a controled enviroment - such as silk lamp shades and silk dresses.

The only way I believe the Amboy Chute could have been involved with Cooper is if it was packed inside of the Dummy front pak. The container was made of WHAT? First the container has to rot and then what is inside is exposed.

Just illogical old woman thinking. Like I said this entire silk chute conversation is over my head.

I will let the experts make the call!
No me - I am not Blevins.

Seems like the consensus (from recent and older posts) is that even if it turns out not to be silk, it was also not ripstop, and was too old and too large to be Cooper's.

As for the FBI, from all reports it looks like they let Mr. Cossey look at it but did not rely on Cossey alone to make their determination. I wouldn't be surprised if the chute is long gone - why keep it around? Catalog the find then keep moving.
So age would not matter on a dummy chute, but would they have used that much chute? I was under the impression that the dummy was a chute with panels taken out to make it smaller thus easier to throw out and repack?

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

smokin99

***"And then, of course there is always the chance the chute was not buried that long to start with for whatever reason."

it was in the search area and yet nobody seen it. could of been covered with brush, but that would of died off and exposed it. was it in a ball as you would think it would be if you were trying to conceal it. it was discovered half out of the ground, what was it's position 2, 3+ years prior?

let's assume it was Cooper's chute. how does this help the FBI? they can't ask the public for help. does it help there reputation? they have to already know it's bruised from not solving the case, so where does lying about the chute help anything? then we assume there not lying about anything else, just the chute? Really?

The story that I remember is that the father was grading the road and the blade caught the corner or edge and pulled it partially out of the ground. Could be that it was inadvertently "buried" when the road was cut as opposed to purposefully buried by someone.


"A tattered, half-buried parachute unearthed by kids had D.B. Cooper country chattering Wednesday over the fate of the skyjacker, who leapt from a plane 36 years ago and into the lore of the Pacific Northwest."


several links repeat the same about it being half buried. I have also read about the tractor hooking it. so who found it, Dad while grading the road, or his kids after he left the area?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

mrshutter45

Agreed, I'm sure all of use would like a better explanation, but as I mentioned before, I don't think the FBI really cares what we think. it just doesn't make sense to go through all of the hype of reporting the chute, and turn around and cover up the findings.

The FBI is far from perfect. The US Marshal's found evidence supporting a raft was found the next day after the escape from Alcatraz.

The sisters of the Anglins have a book coming out & claimed their brothers did survive & lived in South America. I wonder if the book has come out yet.

I have never seen a picture of the Anglin brothers other than what was on their wanted poster.

I do want to see the other pictures. One sister was going to send me a site where I could see the other pictures. I knew there was a family illness and probable death - so I have not recontacted them. I let it slide into the back of my mind but, the mention of it on the DZ made me realize how much time has gone by.

Anyone here know a site where pictures are posted other than the Wanted poster. Really do NOT want to bug either of them, but it was nice of them to respond during their own trying times.

Have forgotten how much time has gone by, but several months. Difficult enough keeping up with myself!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber