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QuoteBruce wrote:
QuoteMy current understanding - from piecing together bits here and there - is that the cigarette butts were lost shortly after they were analyzed for DNA, somewhere in the 2002-2003 time period.
If true then is it cigarette DNA that they use to rule out suspects? I was not aware that they analysed the cigarette butts for DNA. If they did, I assume they would have compared it to the tie DNA to shore up their conclusion that the tie was Cooper's.
377
I don't know that he said DNA -- just that they were "processed" in the lab.
From ckret post:
Still looking for the cigarettes, after they were processed in the lab they were sent back to the field. So they are somewhere between Washington DC and Seattle or disposed of. Every spot on the plane possibly touched by Cooper was processed for prints. The seats he was sitting in were actually removed and sent to DC.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill
smokin99 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteBruce wrote: ***My current understanding - from piecing together bits here and there - is that the cigarette butts were lost shortly after they were analyzed for DNA, somewhere in the 2002-2003 time period.
If true then is it cigarette DNA that they use to rule out suspects? I was not aware that they analysed the cigarette butts for DNA. If they did, I assume they would have compared it to the tie DNA to shore up their conclusion that the tie was Cooper's.
377
I don't know that he said DNA -- just that they were "processed" in the lab.
From ckret post:
Still looking for the cigarettes, after they were processed in the lab they were sent back to the field. So they are somewhere between Washington DC and Seattle or disposed of. Every spot on the plane possibly touched by Cooper was processed for prints. The seats he was sitting in were actually removed and sent to DC.
And what happened to the glass he drank from.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill
I'm working up a profile on the physical characteristics of DB Cooper, and some behavioral ones. If I've left anything out, please let me know - thanks.
The Hunt, Chapter 4.4, Who was DB Cooper?
Here is what we know about DB Cooper:
First, we know for sure that his name was not DB Cooper, since the initials were a result of a misunderstanding between a reporter and a Portland police detective.
The man known to us as DB Cooper, however, introduced himself to the NWO ticket counter as “Dan Cooper,” and that is the name that the ticket agent, Dennis Lysine, wrote on the skyjacker’s boarding pass.
The man calling himself Dan Cooper was a male Caucasian in his mid-to-late 40s, or possibly even early 50s, which is very old to be conducting rigorous – and inventive - criminal activity.
Cooper was wearing a dark brown or black suit, white shirt and thin clip-on black tie. Over this he wore a lightweight black raincoat. He wore loafers or some kind of slip-on shoe that might have come to his ankles. He may have been wearing a set of thermal underwear beneath his business attire.
The detailed physical descriptions given by the passengers vary, but there is a general consistency in their accounts:
Cooper’s hair was dark brown or black and short, and parted on the left side. It may have been wavy in the manner that is called “marcelled.”
He was identified as having “dark, piercing eyes,” that flight attendant Florence Schaffner declared were brown. He may have had a square jaw, or a saggy chin.
He was about six-foot tall or maybe six-one. Some fellow passengers thought he might have been five-ten. Cooper was trim and was estimated to be about 175 pounds. He also had an olive complexion, leading some to believe that he might have been of Mediterranean heritage.
He also carried a cloth-like brief case and toted a brown paper bag, also reported to be a burlap sack. We later learned that he had a pair of wrap-around sunglasses and a knife of some kind that he used to cut parachute cords. He wore no hat.
The ticket agent said Cooper stood off by himself in the passenger waiting area, staring out the window until the boarding call was issued for Flight 305. In general, Cooper looked and acted like a business man heading home for the Thanksgiving holiday.
But he did attract some attention, and NWO gate agent Hal Williams reported that one of 305’s passengers stood out from the rest – a guy dressed all in black and who looked like a “lone wolf,” according to Geoffrey Gray in Skyjack.
Cooper spoke with no discernible accent, leading some to believe that he might have been raised in the Midwest. He had no visible tattoos, scars or distinguishing anatomical features that are known publicly. However, it is rumored that the FBI knows of a small scar on Cooper’s hand that it has not revealed to the public.
However, he smoked Raleigh cigarettes, and left eight aboard the plane. The flight attendants said that his fingers were discolored from the tobacco smoke, suggesting that he was a heavy smoker. Further, he wore no rings or any jewelry, but he wore a watch.
Cooper drank a Bourbon and water during the two and one-half hour wait over Sea-Tac.
Himmelsbach describes Cooper's behavior as desperate and crude, but the flight attendants describe Cooper as mostly calm and thoughtful – a “gentleman” one recalled.
Cooper used a noteworthy colloquial expression, “funny stuff.” During the refueling of the craft he warned the crew not to attempt any “funny stuff or I’ll do the job.”
Cooper was very knowledgeable of the plane and possibly parachuting: He knew the requirements for flying a 727 so that a parachute jump would be successful. That was classified information in 1971.
He was familiar with avionic terminology, and properly identified the intercom radio as an “interphone,” and the stairway used by airlines to load passengers on the runway as an “airstairs.”
His use of a bomb was considered by the FBI to be a “game changer,” and thwarted any effort to rush him from different directions.
His choice of destinations – “Mexico City or anywhere in Mexico” – is widely believed to be astute, as it put him in the air corridor known as Victor 23 and over predictable terrain.
Cooper’s insistence that the fuel trucks be positioned to the port side of the plane gave him optimum visibility of events outside the plane. His choice of seat 18 E was also optimal for monitoring events in the plane during the hijacking. Similarly, his crowd control was successful, and he had the passengers in the rear of the aircraft moved forward without incident.
His use of the flight attendants as couriers kept the cockpit crew at a distance, and minimized his exposure to eye witnesses. Cooper wisely demanded the return of all of his notes. He even pocketed an empty paper match cover he had used from the ashtray.
Cooper also demonstrated a familiarity with the area, noting that McChord Air Base was only 20 minutes from Sea-Tac, and correctly identified the lights of Tacoma from the air as they circled Sea-Tac.
Cooper also insisted that meals be brought aboard for the crew, even though they never ate them, and according to Bill Rataczak the German Shepherds brought aboard in Reno to search for the bomb ate the food before doing any sniffing.
Cooper also brought several tablets of Benzedrine to keep the crew alert.
The Hunt, Chapter 4.4, Who was DB Cooper?
Here is what we know about DB Cooper:
First, we know for sure that his name was not DB Cooper, since the initials were a result of a misunderstanding between a reporter and a Portland police detective.
The man known to us as DB Cooper, however, introduced himself to the NWO ticket counter as “Dan Cooper,” and that is the name that the ticket agent, Dennis Lysine, wrote on the skyjacker’s boarding pass.
The man calling himself Dan Cooper was a male Caucasian in his mid-to-late 40s, or possibly even early 50s, which is very old to be conducting rigorous – and inventive - criminal activity.
Cooper was wearing a dark brown or black suit, white shirt and thin clip-on black tie. Over this he wore a lightweight black raincoat. He wore loafers or some kind of slip-on shoe that might have come to his ankles. He may have been wearing a set of thermal underwear beneath his business attire.
The detailed physical descriptions given by the passengers vary, but there is a general consistency in their accounts:
Cooper’s hair was dark brown or black and short, and parted on the left side. It may have been wavy in the manner that is called “marcelled.”
He was identified as having “dark, piercing eyes,” that flight attendant Florence Schaffner declared were brown. He may have had a square jaw, or a saggy chin.
He was about six-foot tall or maybe six-one. Some fellow passengers thought he might have been five-ten. Cooper was trim and was estimated to be about 175 pounds. He also had an olive complexion, leading some to believe that he might have been of Mediterranean heritage.
He also carried a cloth-like brief case and toted a brown paper bag, also reported to be a burlap sack. We later learned that he had a pair of wrap-around sunglasses and a knife of some kind that he used to cut parachute cords. He wore no hat.
The ticket agent said Cooper stood off by himself in the passenger waiting area, staring out the window until the boarding call was issued for Flight 305. In general, Cooper looked and acted like a business man heading home for the Thanksgiving holiday.
But he did attract some attention, and NWO gate agent Hal Williams reported that one of 305’s passengers stood out from the rest – a guy dressed all in black and who looked like a “lone wolf,” according to Geoffrey Gray in Skyjack.
Cooper spoke with no discernible accent, leading some to believe that he might have been raised in the Midwest. He had no visible tattoos, scars or distinguishing anatomical features that are known publicly. However, it is rumored that the FBI knows of a small scar on Cooper’s hand that it has not revealed to the public.
However, he smoked Raleigh cigarettes, and left eight aboard the plane. The flight attendants said that his fingers were discolored from the tobacco smoke, suggesting that he was a heavy smoker. Further, he wore no rings or any jewelry, but he wore a watch.
Cooper drank a Bourbon and water during the two and one-half hour wait over Sea-Tac.
Himmelsbach describes Cooper's behavior as desperate and crude, but the flight attendants describe Cooper as mostly calm and thoughtful – a “gentleman” one recalled.
Cooper used a noteworthy colloquial expression, “funny stuff.” During the refueling of the craft he warned the crew not to attempt any “funny stuff or I’ll do the job.”
Cooper was very knowledgeable of the plane and possibly parachuting: He knew the requirements for flying a 727 so that a parachute jump would be successful. That was classified information in 1971.
He was familiar with avionic terminology, and properly identified the intercom radio as an “interphone,” and the stairway used by airlines to load passengers on the runway as an “airstairs.”
His use of a bomb was considered by the FBI to be a “game changer,” and thwarted any effort to rush him from different directions.
His choice of destinations – “Mexico City or anywhere in Mexico” – is widely believed to be astute, as it put him in the air corridor known as Victor 23 and over predictable terrain.
Cooper’s insistence that the fuel trucks be positioned to the port side of the plane gave him optimum visibility of events outside the plane. His choice of seat 18 E was also optimal for monitoring events in the plane during the hijacking. Similarly, his crowd control was successful, and he had the passengers in the rear of the aircraft moved forward without incident.
His use of the flight attendants as couriers kept the cockpit crew at a distance, and minimized his exposure to eye witnesses. Cooper wisely demanded the return of all of his notes. He even pocketed an empty paper match cover he had used from the ashtray.
Cooper also demonstrated a familiarity with the area, noting that McChord Air Base was only 20 minutes from Sea-Tac, and correctly identified the lights of Tacoma from the air as they circled Sea-Tac.
Cooper also insisted that meals be brought aboard for the crew, even though they never ate them, and according to Bill Rataczak the German Shepherds brought aboard in Reno to search for the bomb ate the food before doing any sniffing.
Cooper also brought several tablets of Benzedrine to keep the crew alert.
QuoteQuoteBruce wrote:
QuoteMy current understanding - from piecing together bits here and there - is that the cigarette butts were lost shortly after they were analyzed for DNA, somewhere in the 2002-2003 time period.
If true then is it cigarette DNA that they use to rule out suspects? I was not aware that they analysed the cigarette butts for DNA. If they did, I assume they would have compared it to the tie DNA to shore up their conclusion that the tie was Cooper's.
377
I don't know that he said DNA -- just that they were "processed" in the lab.
From ckret post:
Still looking for the cigarettes, after they were processed in the lab they were sent back to the field. So they are somewhere between Washington DC and Seattle or disposed of. Every spot on the plane possibly touched by Cooper was processed for prints. The seats he was sitting in were actually removed and sent to DC.
Since certain evidence I provided to the FBI thur CARR never made it to the succeeding agents - I don't TRUST him one bit.
The FBI did NOT even ask me for DNA until 2003 - now put that in your pipe and smoke it. If they had DNA from the cigarettes they would have requested DNA from Duane Weber in 1997 and way before 2003. Logic is all one needs with this.
The butts had been LOST prior to Weber being presented as a subject - IF THE FBI had the butts in 1997 when WEBER was presented as a suspect - WHY was his DNA not requested?
WHY would they send a letter in 1998 stating Weber's prints did NOT match the prints on the plane?
Paper work and recorded phone calls by others - dispute all of the stuff you guys have spent the last 24 hrs discussing.
I have the letter from the FBI!
I have the receipts for the DNA and the receipts of the return of the DNA. IF THEY HAD DNA IN 1997 - DUANE WEBER's DNA WOULD HAVE BEEN REQUESTED AT THAT TIME....not 5 yrs LATER!
The smokes were lost during the time of the McCoy arguments long before Duane Weber ever became a suspect. Supposedly the agent SHOWED his wife and someone else the tie??????? OR so it was claimed.
You guys get SO lost in your time frames! Go back in time and you will know the smokes disappeared BEFORE Weber ever became a suspect!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
smokin99 0
QuoteQuoteI'm working up a profile on the physical characteristics of DB Cooper, and some behavioral ones. If I've left anything out, please let me know - thanks.
The Hunt, Chapter 4.4, Who was DB Cooper?
Here is what we know about DB Cooper:
First, we know for sure that his name was not DB Cooper, since the initials were a result of a misunderstanding between a reporter and a Portland police detective.
The man known to us as DB Cooper, however, introduced himself to the NWO ticket counter as “Dan Cooper,” and that is the name that the ticket agent, Dennis Lysine, wrote on the skyjacker’s boarding pass.
The man calling himself Dan Cooper was a male Caucasian in his mid-to-late 40s, or possibly even early 50s, which is very old to be conducting rigorous – and inventive - criminal activity.
Cooper was wearing a dark brown or black suit, white shirt and thin clip-on black tie. Over this he wore a lightweight black raincoat. He wore loafers or some kind of slip-on shoe that might have come to his ankles. He may have been wearing a set of thermal underwear beneath his business attire.
The detailed physical descriptions given by the passengers vary, but there is a general consistency in their accounts:
Cooper’s hair was dark brown or black and short, and parted on the left side. It may have been wavy in the manner that is called “marcelled.”
He was identified as having “dark, piercing eyes,” that flight attendant Florence Schaffner declared were brown. He may have had a square jaw, or a saggy chin.
He was about six-foot tall or maybe six-one. Some fellow passengers thought he might have been five-ten. Cooper was trim and was estimated to be about 175 pounds. He also had an olive complexion, leading some to believe that he might have been of Mediterranean heritage.
He also carried a cloth-like brief case and toted a brown paper bag, also reported to be a burlap sack. We later learned that he had a pair of wrap-around sunglasses and a knife of some kind that he used to cut parachute cords. He wore no hat.
The ticket agent said Cooper stood off by himself in the passenger waiting area, staring out the window until the boarding call was issued for Flight 305. In general, Cooper looked and acted like a business man heading home for the Thanksgiving holiday.
But he did attract some attention, and NWO gate agent Hal Williams reported that one of 305’s passengers stood out from the rest – a guy dressed all in black and who looked like a “lone wolf,” according to Geoffrey Gray in Skyjack.
Cooper spoke with no discernible accent, leading some to believe that he might have been raised in the Midwest. He had no visible tattoos, scars or distinguishing anatomical features that are known publicly. However, it is rumored that the FBI knows of a small scar on Cooper’s hand that it has not revealed to the public.
However, he smoked Raleigh cigarettes, and left eight aboard the plane. The flight attendants said that his fingers were discolored from the tobacco smoke, suggesting that he was a heavy smoker. Further, he wore no rings or any jewelry, but he wore a watch.
Cooper drank a Bourbon and water during the two and one-half hour wait over Sea-Tac.
Himmelsbach describes Cooper's behavior as desperate and crude, but the flight attendants describe Cooper as mostly calm and thoughtful – a “gentleman” one recalled.
Cooper used a noteworthy colloquial expression, “funny stuff.” During the refueling of the craft he warned the crew not to attempt any “funny stuff or I’ll do the job.”
Cooper was very knowledgeable of the plane and possibly parachuting: He knew the requirements for flying a 727 so that a parachute jump would be successful. That was classified information in 1971.
He was familiar with avionic terminology, and properly identified the intercom radio as an “interphone,” and the stairway used by airlines to load passengers on the runway as an “airstairs.”
His use of a bomb was considered by the FBI to be a “game changer,” and thwarted any effort to rush him from different directions.
His choice of destinations – “Mexico City or anywhere in Mexico” – is widely believed to be astute, as it put him in the air corridor known as Victor 23 and over predictable terrain.
Cooper’s insistence that the fuel trucks be positioned to the port side of the plane gave him optimum visibility of events outside the plane. His choice of seat 18 E was also optimal for monitoring events in the plane during the hijacking. Similarly, his crowd control was successful, and he had the passengers in the rear of the aircraft moved forward without incident.
His use of the flight attendants as couriers kept the cockpit crew at a distance, and minimized his exposure to eye witnesses. Cooper wisely demanded the return of all of his notes. He even pocketed an empty paper match cover he had used from the ashtray.
Cooper also demonstrated a familiarity with the area, noting that McChord Air Base was only 20 minutes from Sea-Tac, and correctly identified the lights of Tacoma from the air as they circled Sea-Tac.
Cooper also insisted that meals be brought aboard for the crew, even though they never ate them, and according to Bill Rataczak the German Shepherds brought aboard in Reno to search for the bomb ate the food before doing any sniffing.
Cooper also brought several tablets of Benzedrine to keep the crew alert.
Again I like the overview, but I'm curious where some of your non-attributed points came from. It will take more time than I have right now to go line by line, but some of this - including very specific items that he addressed from the fbi files -- is contradicted by what ckret has posted in the past.
Off the top of my head, (memory here, so I might be wrong) states no one mentioned a watch, don't think the briefcase was referred to a "Cloth" briefcase, small paper sack (not sure if color was ever mentioned), use of the word interphone - I thought that was never actually found in the files - can't remember if that changed, no evidence that he had any communication about the positioning of the fuel trucks. There was only one note that he wrote and that was the initial one, Like I said I could be wrong - I'll have to look some of the stuff up, but it always come back to what/who to believe. Some of ckret's posts were his theory based on what was in the files, but also a lot of stuff, so he said, came directly from the files.
Never heard about the bennies eta: from ckret that I remember
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill
smokin99 0
QuoteCooper was very knowledgeable of the plane and possibly parachuting: He knew the requirements for flying a 727 so that a parachute jump would be successful. That was classified information in 1971.
LOL....You are probably regretting that you asked for input. Again according to the fbi guy... He originally wanted them to take off with it open and when told no, apparently assumed the door was controlled from the cockpit. Subsequently needed help from Tina to know how to open. That sounds like someone that knew it could be done but maybe wasn't fully familiar with all the finer details and needed help from the NWA employee that was.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill
......The smokes were lost during the time of the McCoy arguments long before Duane Weber ever became a suspect.... Go back in time and you will know the smokes disappeared BEFORE Weber ever became a suspect!
Can you tell me exactly how this is known, Jo. Thanks.
Further, when were the cigarettes lost? Where were they lost, and who lost them?
I'm working up a profile on the physical characteristics of DB Cooper, and some behavioral ones. If I've left anything out, please let me know - thanks.
The Hunt, Chapter 4.4, Who was DB Cooper?
Here is what we know about DB Cooper:
First, we know for sure that his name was not DB Cooper, since the initials were a result of a misunderstanding between a reporter and a Portland police detective.
The man known to us as DB Cooper, however, introduced himself to the NWO ticket counter as “Dan Cooper,” and that is the name that the ticket agent, Dennis Lysine, wrote on the skyjacker’s boarding pass.
The man calling himself Dan Cooper was a male Caucasian in his mid-to-late 40s, or possibly even early 50s, which is very old to be conducting rigorous – and inventive - criminal activity.
Cooper was wearing a dark brown or black suit, white shirt and thin clip-on black tie. Over this he wore a lightweight black raincoat. He wore loafers or some kind of slip-on shoe that might have come to his ankles. He may have been wearing a set of thermal underwear beneath his business attire.
The detailed physical descriptions given by the passengers vary, but there is a general consistency in their accounts:
Cooper’s hair was dark brown or black and short,
Insert by JO:
dark black/brown - hair representative of the temporary dyes did in 1971 which also relaxed the curls and created a shiny look
and parted on the left side. It may have been wavy in the manner that is called “marcelled.”
He was identified as having “dark, piercing eyes,” that flight attendant Florence Schaffner declared were brown. He may have had a square jaw, or a saggy chin.
He was about six-foot tall or maybe six-one. Some fellow passengers thought he might have been five-ten. Cooper was trim and was estimated to be about 175 pounds. He also had an olive complexion, leading some to believe that he might have been of Mediterranean heritage.
Insert by JO:
Duane's complexion was always compare to the movie star who played in Casino - brain will not let me remember his name.(ANTHONY QUINN)!
He also carried a cloth-like brief
case
Insert by JO: Not sure that information is entirely accurate, but do believe the money went out of that plane in a cloth and leather satchel not a whitesh bank bag. Note never heard it was a burlap sack and the paper bag was a small lunch bag size
and toted a brown paper bag, also reported to be a burlap sack. We later learned that he had a pair of wrap-around sunglasses and a knife of some kind that he used to cut parachute cords. He wore no hat.
The ticket agent said Cooper stood off by himself in the passenger waiting area, staring out the window until the boarding call was issued for Flight 305. In general, Cooper looked and acted like a business man heading home for the Thanksgiving holiday.
But he did attract some attention, and NWO gate agent Hal Williams reported that one of 305’s passengers stood out from the rest – a guy dressed all in black and who looked like a “lone wolf,” according to Geoffrey Gray in Skyjack.
Cooper spoke with no discernible accent, leading some to believe that he might have been raised in the Midwest. He had no visible tattoos, scars or distinguishing anatomical features that are known publicly. However, it is rumored that the FBI knows of a small scar on Cooper’s hand that it has not revealed to the public.
INSERT BY JO
Weber's San Quentin and Folsom file note the scar on his hand. Was unaware the witnesses disclosed the scar!
However, he smoked Raleigh cigarettes, and left eight aboard the plane. The flight attendants said that his fingers were discolored from the tobacco smoke, suggesting that he was a heavy smoker. Further, he wore no rings or any jewelry, but he wore a watch.
Was there EVER a description of this watch?
Cooper drank a Bourbon and water during the two and one-half hour wait over Sea-Tac.
Himmelsbach describes Cooper's behavior as desperate and crude, but the flight attendants describe Cooper as mostly calm and thoughtful – a “gentleman” one recalled.
Cooper used a noteworthy colloquial expression, “funny stuff.” During the refueling of the craft he warned the crew not to attempt any “funny stuff or I’ll do the job.”
Cooper was very knowledgeable of the plane and possibly parachuting: He knew the requirements for flying a 727 so that a parachute jump would be successful. That was classified information in 1971.
Insert by JO:
That information was available prior to 1971 and one person involved with Boeing received a phone call that was put thur - the man felt responsible for possibly providing Cooper with the information he needed. This man was a friend of Duane's family, but the FBI never looked into it.
He was familiar with avionic terminology, and properly identified the intercom radio as an “interphone,” and the stairway used by airlines to load passengers on the runway as an “airstairs.”
Insert by JO:
Aftstairs
His use of a bomb was considered by the FBI to be a “game changer,” and thwarted any effort to rush him from different directions.
His choice of destinations – “Mexico City or anywhere in Mexico” – is widely believed to be astute, as it put him in the air corridor known as Victor 23 and over predictable terrain.
Cooper’s insistence that the fuel trucks be positioned to the port side of the plane gave him optimum visibility of events outside the plane. His choice of seat 18 E was also optimal for monitoring events in the plane during the hijacking. Similarly, his crowd control was successful, and he had the passengers in the rear of the aircraft moved forward without incident.
His use of the flight attendants as couriers kept the cockpit crew at a distance, and minimized his exposure to eye witnesses. Cooper wisely demanded the return of all of his notes. He even pocketed an empty paper match cover he had used from the ashtray.
Insert by JO
ARE you POSITIVE it was empty1
Cooper also demonstrated a familiarity with the area, noting that McChord Air Base was only 20 minutes from Sea-Tac, and correctly identified the lights of Tacoma from the air as they circled Sea-Tac.
Cooper also insisted that meals be brought aboard for the crew, even though they never ate them, and according to Bill Rataczak the German Shepherds brought aboard in Reno to search for the bomb ate the food before doing any sniffing.
Cooper also brought several tablets of Benzedrine to keep the crew alert.
Benzedrine - NEVER heard that claim before!
The Hunt, Chapter 4.4, Who was DB Cooper?
Here is what we know about DB Cooper:
First, we know for sure that his name was not DB Cooper, since the initials were a result of a misunderstanding between a reporter and a Portland police detective.
The man known to us as DB Cooper, however, introduced himself to the NWO ticket counter as “Dan Cooper,” and that is the name that the ticket agent, Dennis Lysine, wrote on the skyjacker’s boarding pass.
The man calling himself Dan Cooper was a male Caucasian in his mid-to-late 40s, or possibly even early 50s, which is very old to be conducting rigorous – and inventive - criminal activity.
Cooper was wearing a dark brown or black suit, white shirt and thin clip-on black tie. Over this he wore a lightweight black raincoat. He wore loafers or some kind of slip-on shoe that might have come to his ankles. He may have been wearing a set of thermal underwear beneath his business attire.
The detailed physical descriptions given by the passengers vary, but there is a general consistency in their accounts:
Cooper’s hair was dark brown or black and short,
Insert by JO:
dark black/brown - hair representative of the temporary dyes did in 1971 which also relaxed the curls and created a shiny look
and parted on the left side. It may have been wavy in the manner that is called “marcelled.”
He was identified as having “dark, piercing eyes,” that flight attendant Florence Schaffner declared were brown. He may have had a square jaw, or a saggy chin.
He was about six-foot tall or maybe six-one. Some fellow passengers thought he might have been five-ten. Cooper was trim and was estimated to be about 175 pounds. He also had an olive complexion, leading some to believe that he might have been of Mediterranean heritage.
Insert by JO:
Duane's complexion was always compare to the movie star who played in Casino - brain will not let me remember his name.(ANTHONY QUINN)!
He also carried a cloth-like brief
case
Insert by JO: Not sure that information is entirely accurate, but do believe the money went out of that plane in a cloth and leather satchel not a whitesh bank bag. Note never heard it was a burlap sack and the paper bag was a small lunch bag size
and toted a brown paper bag, also reported to be a burlap sack. We later learned that he had a pair of wrap-around sunglasses and a knife of some kind that he used to cut parachute cords. He wore no hat.
The ticket agent said Cooper stood off by himself in the passenger waiting area, staring out the window until the boarding call was issued for Flight 305. In general, Cooper looked and acted like a business man heading home for the Thanksgiving holiday.
But he did attract some attention, and NWO gate agent Hal Williams reported that one of 305’s passengers stood out from the rest – a guy dressed all in black and who looked like a “lone wolf,” according to Geoffrey Gray in Skyjack.
Cooper spoke with no discernible accent, leading some to believe that he might have been raised in the Midwest. He had no visible tattoos, scars or distinguishing anatomical features that are known publicly. However, it is rumored that the FBI knows of a small scar on Cooper’s hand that it has not revealed to the public.
INSERT BY JO
Weber's San Quentin and Folsom file note the scar on his hand. Was unaware the witnesses disclosed the scar!
However, he smoked Raleigh cigarettes, and left eight aboard the plane. The flight attendants said that his fingers were discolored from the tobacco smoke, suggesting that he was a heavy smoker. Further, he wore no rings or any jewelry, but he wore a watch.
Was there EVER a description of this watch?
Cooper drank a Bourbon and water during the two and one-half hour wait over Sea-Tac.
Himmelsbach describes Cooper's behavior as desperate and crude, but the flight attendants describe Cooper as mostly calm and thoughtful – a “gentleman” one recalled.
Cooper used a noteworthy colloquial expression, “funny stuff.” During the refueling of the craft he warned the crew not to attempt any “funny stuff or I’ll do the job.”
Cooper was very knowledgeable of the plane and possibly parachuting: He knew the requirements for flying a 727 so that a parachute jump would be successful. That was classified information in 1971.
Insert by JO:
That information was available prior to 1971 and one person involved with Boeing received a phone call that was put thur - the man felt responsible for possibly providing Cooper with the information he needed. This man was a friend of Duane's family, but the FBI never looked into it.
He was familiar with avionic terminology, and properly identified the intercom radio as an “interphone,” and the stairway used by airlines to load passengers on the runway as an “airstairs.”
Insert by JO:
Aftstairs
His use of a bomb was considered by the FBI to be a “game changer,” and thwarted any effort to rush him from different directions.
His choice of destinations – “Mexico City or anywhere in Mexico” – is widely believed to be astute, as it put him in the air corridor known as Victor 23 and over predictable terrain.
Cooper’s insistence that the fuel trucks be positioned to the port side of the plane gave him optimum visibility of events outside the plane. His choice of seat 18 E was also optimal for monitoring events in the plane during the hijacking. Similarly, his crowd control was successful, and he had the passengers in the rear of the aircraft moved forward without incident.
His use of the flight attendants as couriers kept the cockpit crew at a distance, and minimized his exposure to eye witnesses. Cooper wisely demanded the return of all of his notes. He even pocketed an empty paper match cover he had used from the ashtray.
Insert by JO
ARE you POSITIVE it was empty1
Cooper also demonstrated a familiarity with the area, noting that McChord Air Base was only 20 minutes from Sea-Tac, and correctly identified the lights of Tacoma from the air as they circled Sea-Tac.
Cooper also insisted that meals be brought aboard for the crew, even though they never ate them, and according to Bill Rataczak the German Shepherds brought aboard in Reno to search for the bomb ate the food before doing any sniffing.
Cooper also brought several tablets of Benzedrine to keep the crew alert.
Benzedrine - NEVER heard that claim before!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Quote
......The smokes were lost during the time of the McCoy arguments long before Duane Weber ever became a suspect.... Go back in time and you will know the smokes disappeared BEFORE Weber ever became a suspect!
Can you tell me exactly how this is known, Jo. Thanks.
Further, when were the cigarettes lost? Where were they lost, and who lost them?
When they were lost - what I can tell you is they did NOT have them in 1998 or in 2001!
This was something explored after I received the 1998 letter from the FBI about the prints and possibly was generated by Pasternac. I would have to go thur PAGES AND PAGES and VOLUMES of emails in 4 inch binders to find it. I believe this became known around 2000 or 2001 and was one of the reasons I went public. It was part of our arguments about the FBI having NOT investigated DUANE WEBER! I can tell you it was BEFORE May of 2001.....this was discussed and at that time they could NOT find the smokes.
IT IS LOGICAL - IF THEY HAD THE BUTTS IT WOULD HAVE BEEN EASY TO GET RID OF DOUG AND JO AND AT THAT TIME - JO STILL HAD VIABLE DNA FOR WEBER!
BUT the FBI never asked for DNA until 2003! Evidently they had LOST the smokes prior to that and all they had was the tie - because that is the only thing mentioned....if they had the smokes - it would have BEEN SO EASY TO DISMISS WEBER EARLY on!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
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QuoteI was reading about titanium in the '60s
Evidently a lot was coming from the Soviet Union. The CIA has a declassified report from around then, analyzing the unique characteristics of the titanium produced by different countries (like Japan and Soviet Union)
The SR-71 early titanium evidently came from the Soviet Union thru a straw company set up by the CIA. They wanted really pure titanium, I guess before they alloyed it, and the other sources weren't as good as the Soviet's (initially).
You should post that, to see if people know that.
It's interesting to muse how the most likely source of titanium in the late '60s was from the Soviet Union.
Kinda ironic that the USSR supplied a critical material for the SR 71 which was used to spy on it from waaaay up going waaaay fast.
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2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Quote
Off the top of my head, (memory here, so I might be wrong) states no one mentioned a watch, don't think the briefcase was referred to a "Cloth" briefcase, small paper sack (not sure if color was ever mentioned), use of the word interphone - I thought that was never actually found in the files - can't remember if that changed, no evidence that he had any communication about the positioning of the fuel trucks. There was only one note that he wrote and that was the initial one, Like I said I could be wrong - I'll have to look some of the stuff up, but it always come back to what/who to believe. Some of ckret's posts were his theory based on what was in the files, but also a lot of stuff, so he said, came directly from the files.
Never heard about the bennies eta: from ckret that I remember
Correct - I have not read or heard of a watch being mention - if so I have 3 or 4 I will sell for the right price!
Supposedly Cooper had a dark brown or black briefcase when he boarded the plane. A cloth satchel comes into play from a story told to me by one of the crew members as how the money went out of the plane.l....not in a whitesh bank bag as Mr H has stated.
My understand the only written not was the one he gave Florence and he demanded it back. All other notes were written by the crew members - Tina scrible notes regarding Cooper's demands....and Florence made notes in the cockpit.
Right on about Ckret - how much of what he said and claimed actually came out of the files. Carr violated many protocols in this thread...and why I do NOT like him. Evidently the agents who followed CARR have had it difficult because of CARR's activities on this thread.
Look at how much of JO's STORY has been HIJACKED by others who later claim their suspect was Cooper. I never bought into the Cooper Comics but Marla and Blevins did - they swallowed it hook and sinker.
The FBI never had a better suspect than Weber - You can take those word to the BANK!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
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Jo wrote
QuoteCorrect - I have not read or heard of a watch being mention - if so I have 3 or 4 I will sell for the right price!
The right price for Duane's watches is market price. If you can prove Duane was Cooper and can prove you have the watch worn during the skyjack it is worth a LOT. Don't sell too soon Jo.
Look how much some idiots pay for a decayed Cooper twenty.
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2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
I was talking to an old friend of Duane's tonight and updating him about what all has been going on. I asked him about certain expression - (not going to print them here) but he mentioned them on his own and he does not read the thread and we only talk a couple of times a yr and only briefly.
It was short but interesting conversation - regarding a subject we had NOT discussed before...expression use by Duane.
An article by Wild Bill Yensen (MYC53) still intrigues me.
My Billy the Mouse - what does it mean and why did 377 have to make that post? Paperlegs and Scott Mouse Warner had a relationship and Duane claimed and the wife vouch for this - had a relationship with Paperlegs.
During 1962 and 1968 - Paperlegs was involved in Intermountian Communications and Duane was JOHN Collins.
Ed Horan also didn't exist until 1962.
I want to know MORE about Scott Mouse Warner (RDD-69)? Who was he and how old was he and were all did he live and who he was married to. Was he at one time a supply person during WWII - probably not, but MOUSE is very important to me and to the story of Cooper. Perhaps not the right MOUSE, but a mouse never the less. Almost anything related to jumping or chute or supplies or fires relating to MOUSE - I search and research, but I cannot find ANYTHING on this Scott Mouse Warner.
Can anyone help.
I am sure it is just a FIELD search, but I try not to leave any stones unturned.
The entire story got my attention and the other thing was the riddle that Paperlegs used! That riddle solved any doubt in my mind that Duane Weber (aka Johnnie Collins) and Paperlegs were connected for a period of time. The ex-wife said they were and she knew Paperlegs wife, but I could never verify any of this.
Wild Bill states his last jump was with Petersen in 1961 - and that makes sense since in 1962 he was INTERMOUNTIAN COMMUNICATION....OPERATING OUT OF CANON, LEADVILLE AND A PLACE IN W.COLORADO...seems like it started with an H. Areas Duane personally showed me and talked about and about the men who trained there, but did NOT mention he was one of them.
The ex from 1962 to 1972 met him there and they lived there and in AZ and many many places under the name of Johnnie Collins and she called herself more than one name during those yrs...therefore indicating she had knowledge he was running from the law.
Ed Horan did NOT exist until 1962 and his connection to Weber came out of WA, OR, ID and CO.
There was a man connected to Duane's past out of Spokane with the last name of Harris. I met this man's son in Denver.
Duane asked him about his father in Spokane - the father and Duane were about the same age. Yet, the FBI told me if I put Duane in a CHUTE - that did NOT put him on the PLANE!
Now you guys know why I want to go to Spokane, but I am unable to do so and putting Duane in a CHUTE does NOT put him on the plane.
When Duane was talking to Harris Jr. he asked him a question - one I had forgotten about. I won't discuss that question at this time and it is why I want to go to Spokane.
When I found the criminal record prior to 1950 out of Spokane - I have not been able to let go of the other memories of that discussion. Duane talked with Harris Jr about the places in Spokane - about sections of the area and where they lived and names of roads. Duane used WE live or we stayed in that conversation and I assumed it was with one of this wives. That could only be the mother of Zona called Edna 1943 to 1949 (approx) or The woman who knew him as Johnnie Collins 1962 - 1972.
The damn 1st and last name of Harris is so common I would never find him. I wonder if there was a smoke jumper by the name of HARRIS in that area or a man who was connected to the Forestry.
Hell, why keep this quiet at this time - the name I am looking for is Phil Harris and NOT not the one time county commissioner - Phil Harris evidently was a very common name in Spokane in the 40's, 50's 60's (the only yrs I am looking at), but did NOT know how to connect occupations and I do know he was about Duane's age (Duane was born in 1924).
It was short but interesting conversation - regarding a subject we had NOT discussed before...expression use by Duane.
An article by Wild Bill Yensen (MYC53) still intrigues me.
My Billy the Mouse - what does it mean and why did 377 have to make that post? Paperlegs and Scott Mouse Warner had a relationship and Duane claimed and the wife vouch for this - had a relationship with Paperlegs.
During 1962 and 1968 - Paperlegs was involved in Intermountian Communications and Duane was JOHN Collins.
Ed Horan also didn't exist until 1962.
I want to know MORE about Scott Mouse Warner (RDD-69)? Who was he and how old was he and were all did he live and who he was married to. Was he at one time a supply person during WWII - probably not, but MOUSE is very important to me and to the story of Cooper. Perhaps not the right MOUSE, but a mouse never the less. Almost anything related to jumping or chute or supplies or fires relating to MOUSE - I search and research, but I cannot find ANYTHING on this Scott Mouse Warner.
Can anyone help.
I am sure it is just a FIELD search, but I try not to leave any stones unturned.
The entire story got my attention and the other thing was the riddle that Paperlegs used! That riddle solved any doubt in my mind that Duane Weber (aka Johnnie Collins) and Paperlegs were connected for a period of time. The ex-wife said they were and she knew Paperlegs wife, but I could never verify any of this.
Wild Bill states his last jump was with Petersen in 1961 - and that makes sense since in 1962 he was INTERMOUNTIAN COMMUNICATION....OPERATING OUT OF CANON, LEADVILLE AND A PLACE IN W.COLORADO...seems like it started with an H. Areas Duane personally showed me and talked about and about the men who trained there, but did NOT mention he was one of them.
The ex from 1962 to 1972 met him there and they lived there and in AZ and many many places under the name of Johnnie Collins and she called herself more than one name during those yrs...therefore indicating she had knowledge he was running from the law.
Ed Horan did NOT exist until 1962 and his connection to Weber came out of WA, OR, ID and CO.
There was a man connected to Duane's past out of Spokane with the last name of Harris. I met this man's son in Denver.
Duane asked him about his father in Spokane - the father and Duane were about the same age. Yet, the FBI told me if I put Duane in a CHUTE - that did NOT put him on the PLANE!
Now you guys know why I want to go to Spokane, but I am unable to do so and putting Duane in a CHUTE does NOT put him on the plane.
When Duane was talking to Harris Jr. he asked him a question - one I had forgotten about. I won't discuss that question at this time and it is why I want to go to Spokane.
When I found the criminal record prior to 1950 out of Spokane - I have not been able to let go of the other memories of that discussion. Duane talked with Harris Jr about the places in Spokane - about sections of the area and where they lived and names of roads. Duane used WE live or we stayed in that conversation and I assumed it was with one of this wives. That could only be the mother of Zona called Edna 1943 to 1949 (approx) or The woman who knew him as Johnnie Collins 1962 - 1972.
The damn 1st and last name of Harris is so common I would never find him. I wonder if there was a smoke jumper by the name of HARRIS in that area or a man who was connected to the Forestry.
Hell, why keep this quiet at this time - the name I am looking for is Phil Harris and NOT not the one time county commissioner - Phil Harris evidently was a very common name in Spokane in the 40's, 50's 60's (the only yrs I am looking at), but did NOT know how to connect occupations and I do know he was about Duane's age (Duane was born in 1924).
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
If true then is it cigarette DNA that they use to rule out suspects? I was not aware that they analysed the cigarette butts for DNA. If they did, I assume they would have compared it to the tie DNA to shore up their conclusion that the tie was Cooper's.
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