airtwardo 6 #31026 March 7, 2012 Quote Quote Are you REALLY gonna muck all this up with actual research and FACTS?! ~but seriously, nice work! Thanks! even if nothing pans out, I can say I tried No...if nothing pans out you can say~ that angle was throughly investigated and it's a dead end. THAT too is useful in any investigation. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #31027 March 7, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Are you REALLY gonna muck all this up with actual research and FACTS?! ~but seriously, nice work! Thanks! even if nothing pans out, I can say I tried No...if nothing pans out you can say~ that angle was throughly investigated and it's a dead end. THAT too is useful in any investigation. I want to second Airtwardo's comments. Good job Mrshutter45. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #31028 March 7, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Are you REALLY gonna muck all this up with actual research and FACTS?! ~but seriously, nice work! Thanks! even if nothing pans out, I can say I tried No...if nothing pans out you can say~ that angle was throughly investigated and it's a dead end. THAT too is useful in any investigation. I want to second Airtwardo's comments. Good job Mrshutter45. Thanks again, keep in mind Georger got the ball rolling and I am simply helping in it's forward motion."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #31029 March 7, 2012 Wow mrshutter45, all I can do is echo and amplify what airtwardo AND Robert99 said. You’re more like a ‘one man Quantico’; truly nice work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #31030 March 7, 2012 QuoteI called Anson Jewelry and spoke with a woman that was very kind and informative, she told me that this piece was manufactured in Rhode Island and the distributor was in Utah in the 60's & 70's.............. And the plot begins to come together....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokin99 0 #31031 March 8, 2012 QuoteI called Anson Jewelry and spoke with a woman that was very kind and informative, she told me that this piece was manufactured in Rhode Island and the distributor was in Utah in the 60's & 70's. they did not sell to department stores such as JC Penney's, only smaller retailers! she also went on to explain that they would be sold under different names and boxes. they would manufacture a piece as long as it was popular and either change it up a bit, or discontinue the piece, I sent her the photos of Coopers piece and the pictures we found in order for her to get a valid look at the piece and am awaiting her response. Anson has changed hands 3 times in the last 40 years but, her Uncle has been through them all and she is going to show our evidence to him, what becomes of this I'm not sure at this point. I also called Stacy's jewelry and they answered by saying, hello? then went on to say that they were not the same Stacy's from the 60's & 70's. Good work. The only thing I would add is that Anson has a pretty distinctive mark on a lot of the pieces I've seen and "seems" to be pretty high end - at least according to one article I read. As in Tiffanys vs JC Penney. No conclusions drawn - just sharing the info.but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #31032 March 8, 2012 #1 I believe the head stone is incorrect on his birth, this really does not exclude him alone, but Marla should have caught this just as I did if she really checked her family background as she says. (or did she and remain silent) #2 she said in a interview that Granny was extremely ill the last couple years of her life, she died 24 months after the crime so how did she have this big dinner and go into town to bake pies? #3 she now has two landing spots, first saying they had to go back into the woods and find the money, then claims he landed over farmland? #4 she claimed her family at the time was extremely poor and yet was able to make the trip to Sisters among other family visits from Oklahoma if I'm not mistaken where she lived at the time Quote Where Marla's family lived and for how long is a bit tricky to nail down. I have read an account that Marla and her family arrived in Sisters, OR for Thanksgiving in 1971 from the Spokane, WA area. Later, they apparently left the Oregon area and the PNW, and relocated to New Mexico. Both Marla and her brother Dave post on their Facebook pages that they graduated from the high school in this New Mexican town, but Marla told me she only lived there for about a year, if I understand her correctly. Then Marla and her family moved to Oklahoma, as she tells it. In effect, the Cooper clan made a huge oval in their migration - Marla's father leaving Missouri for the West when he was a kid, raising his own family in the PNW, and then eventually moving to Oklahoma when his kids were getting older. Keeping track of everyone in Marla World is compounded further by the multiple marriages across the generations. Regardless, the key element to keep afixed is the action of the FBI. They are the ones who raised Marla's profile. They are the ones who told the world that LD was the "most promising." They may also have the biggest dog in this fight. Argfff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #31033 March 8, 2012 yes that is correct but they did not mark all of the costume Jewelry, which also seems to be the case with the actual Cooper item, I will be in contact with them tomorrow to see what she has found on the information I provided, I'm hoping Tom K can provide more information as to what exactly is on the item, marking wise? ANSON Since 1940's. Anson, Inc, Providence, RI Men's jewelry. 1967 women's jewelry was introduced. Tie tack $10 - $25, cuff links $15 - $30, rhinestone pin $15 - $30 ANSON Since 1948 - 1994 MARK ANSON with line underneath it. Anderson Tool and Die Co Anson jewelry. Marks: “ANSON, Pat. Pend.”, “ANSON”. “ANSON, 12 KT GF”, “ANSON, Sterling Silver”, “Anson” in script, “ANSON, Pewter”. “ANSON, Brass”, “ANSON, Rhodium”, “ANSON, 22K GF” When deciding on a gold jewelry item there are always many different terms that come up. The most popular are Solid Gold, Gold Filled, and Gold Plated. It is important to know the differences between Gold Filled jewelry and Gold Plated jewelry when making your choice. Solid gold is of course an exquisite piece of jewelry. Gold filled is the next level and is an amazing, quality alternative to solid gold. Gold plating is the lower level and these items tend to tarnish and can often times turn the skin green. Gold Filled: Gold filled is an actual layer of gold-pressure bonded to another metal. Gold filled is not to be confused with gold plating as filled literally has 100% more gold than gold plating. Gold filled is much more valuable and tarnish resistant. It does not flake off, rub off or turn colors. As a matter of fact, anyone who can wear gold can wear gold filled without worries of any allergic reaction to the jewelry. Gold filled jewelry is an economical alternative to solid gold! anything under 10 kt is not considered gold and is probably the reason they have no marks, we see in other boxes that it states 18 kt gold plated. nothing is in stone as to this being the missing loop in the Cooper Jewelry findings until we can match the two together. I contacted the person selling the Anson set and the reply was....Hi. There are no hallmarks so I can not know if they are gold-coloured or gold-plated. This is a full 4-piece set in its original box, that's why its more expensive, $309 worth Government Regulation: Gold filled items are regulated by the government. These items are therefore so much better then gold plated which has no regulations at all "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #31034 March 8, 2012 Ok, Spokane, that is a bit of a trip for a family that was "extremely poor" (384 mile) did she ever explain how they arrived? a poor mans car does not travel well ya know Kind of figured I had that wrong, took a shot! her Father is buried in Clayton N.M. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MarkBennett 5 #31035 March 8, 2012 Marla's story may be true or not, and I don't know the answers to the questions you've raised. However, I think Marla is basically a witness. She was eight years old and not an accomplice. Some of the details she's filled in were likely speculative on her part (where Cooper landed, how they got back to Sisters, etc). Boiled down, her case is this: 1) She heard conversations between her uncles before the hijacking. 2) She heard conversations after the hijacking 3) She observed her uncle injured 4) Her father told her at the time not to talk about the hijacking contemporaneously. 5) Near the time of his death, her father reminded her of it and told her to look into it. Because she can't fill in the rest of the story, she's a liar. The FBI must have filled in some details that we don't know. But, why should we expect Marla to have all the answers? It's fine to raise questions about whether her story adds up -- like the age of LD, how did LD jump, get his bearings and make it back to Sisters, OR within 12 hours, etc. But if Marla doesn't know where he landed or what happened to the money -- I mean, how could she? In a perfect world this board would have taken her story, checked it against the facts and weighed why it's possible or why it isn't. Instead, because she couldn't prove her whole case, she was attacked and run off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #31036 March 8, 2012 QuoteCarol did numerous interviews where she identified LD as the best suspect. Here's just one of dozens of similar quotes (377 was there and missed it!?): " I think the jumper might well be Lynn Doyle Cooper”, said Abraczinskis. Abraczinskas said contemporary photographs of L.D. Cooper closely resemble initial sketches of the suspect and some of the most detailed physical descriptions by fellow passengers she has reviewed in the FBI archive." That coming from a noted U of Chicago, award winning scientific illustrator, carries some weight. You can find more at Postmedia News Nov 24, 2011 Georger, WHY don't you be sure she sees this 69 photo of Duane Weber and see what she says! Might be worth your while - as she has been tainted with all of the later photos of Duane - wonder if she will think this one is Marla's Cooper?Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #31037 March 8, 2012 Duane and his wife: Duane: Can't read first word Mou-- Teria Catering Co., Inc 5035 Raytown Rd Kanas City Modulus Corporation 1650 Union Commerce Bldg 915 Euclid Ave Cleveland Ohio (Duane was living in Atlanta) Thirteenth & Baltimore Corp 3300 Baltimore Kansas City Annbar Associates Hotel Muehlebach 12 th & Baltimore Kansas City Interlock Screw & Bolt Corp 1320 Ellsworth Industrial Atlanta. Midnight Sun 225 Peachtree Atalnta, Ga Gateway Sporting Good 3177 Mercier Kansas City Bourbon Orlean Hotel 717 Orleans St N.O., La Wife: Willard-Edgcomb Corp 470? Wyandotte Kansas City S.S. Kresge Company 2727 Second Ave Detroit, Michigan Another one for the wife But it is NO longer readableCopyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #31038 March 8, 2012 Duane: Cherokee Town & Country Club Atlanta, Ga Burke Concret accessories Burlingame, CA (made pretty decent money for the time on this one) Modulus Corporation Cleveland, Ohio American Income Life Atlanta, Ga. Wife: H-K Corporations 764 Miami Circle Atlanta, Ga. S.S. Kresge Company 2727 Second Ave. Detroit, MI Was this a forerunner for K-mart? Because else where it say K-Mart in the tax report. They were living in Columbia, S.C. when they filed taxes.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #31039 March 8, 2012 I guess they are living off of Garage Sales and Flea Markets Sold personal items for $1500 Works for American Income but make little money - 1099 reflect about a total of about $2300 for whole yr (this was Commissions reporte on 1099). Wife: The Singer Company Robinson Skipper (Columbia S.C) Total Income for both was $3733.17. This was a short simple file with NO expenses deducted. That $3733.17 was their TOTAL income. Now move on to 1972, but I can only tell you what I have heard from the ex-wife before she died. Early 1972 - they purchase 2 (TWO) new cars (I do have pictures of the 2 cars). Filing date is when she said she went back to him. Feb. 17 1972. She had told me she went to Lawrence in Nov of 1971 and he called her to come back in Feb. 1972. yet they divorce in May 1972 and he moves her to KS and then to CA. According to her he paid for the move. He even flew the daughter out there at a later date...but, do not know what yr. For a guy who had no money he sure was doing a lot of things in 1972. He also loaned his boss $5,000 on a note. Where the hell did he get 5K. Yea, I know the answer. Duane Weber was a thief. I would say he was a pretty good thief to be able to buy 2 new cars and loan his boss 5K in 1972 after virtually making nothing the yr before. He even remarries immediately in 1972 (mid yr). His new wife had a home - Papers on house - indicates money spent to add 2 rooms and drill two wells - I assume this is the home the new wife had that burned down during the fair in 1972. The story I heard is that someone broke in looking for something they thought he had and then set fire to the structure. How much of that is true I do not know. I only know what he told me and what little is in the 1972 taxes he filed with his new wife. He did NOT report the 2 new cars he bought while still with the ex-wife 1972. Presumably she like myself knew little of his past. Duane left a lot of victims along the way thru out the yrs. From 1972 until 1977 - he hurt a lot of people according to the stories I have heard, yet the man who I met in 1977 and married in 1978 was just not what he has been portrayed as by others from 1972 to 1977. He spent a lot of money in those yrs 1972 to 1977 and took a lot of trips with his new wife - they were dressed to the hilt in the pictures I saw. Duane was a man of many looks and personalities. The ex before me - thought he was a horrible monster and bastard, but the one prior to him thought the sun rose and set with Weber. She even tried to kill herself when he finally left her in 1972, Strange thing - 1972 the ex and Duane went to N.Y for New Yrs, Both of them slipped up and told the story about N.Y. I questioned the ex about this and she realized she had been caught with her hand in the candy jar. If she was NOT with him how did they go to N.Y. for New yrs 1972! She sent me the pictures and had something else for me before she died. I was not letting her have my phone number with my new husband because when I was living on my own she would call me at 1AM and 2AM at home and I had to be at work a 9AM. Therefore I would call her about every 3 months to see how she was doing as her health was failing. I will never forget the last time I called her after she went into an assisted living and later took a fall and broke her hip. She BEGGED me for my phone number and address so she could send me something. The next time I called the nurse picked up the phone...the nurse who answered was with her when she died suddenly 2 hours before. I never got to say good-bye nor did I ever find out what she had to send me. She had sent me the pictures I have - before going into the assisted living. I just could not trust her NOT to call me in the middle of the night after I remarried in 2002 - I think that hurt her feelings, but I hope she understood. Her favorite expression when talking to me was said affectionately thru a lot of alcohol - "You little Shit Face I ove you". Her voice was one you would remember and her expressions and choice of verbage. I played a tape over the phone for Max - he was sure the ex and Clara were one and the same. It was then he asked me how to find her. After he returned from CA. he sent me a farewell letter - I think he found Clara and that was his goal. This has been a long chase, but now the chase is over.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #31040 March 8, 2012 Marla first claimed that she over heard them say, all we have to do is go back into the woods and get the money, this was her story for several months, then on Decmber 6, 2011 she said the following during a phone interview. She went on to explain that the reports of the jump had been misreported. The weather was bad on the night of November 24th but D.B. Cooper told the pilot at what speed, altitude and direction to fly. L.D. Cooper worked as a surveyor and knew this area very well. It has been reported that D.B. Cooper jumped over a very heavily wooded area when, in all actuality, he jumped over farmland and had planned his jump to put himself inside of a six mile area which was only seven miles from the home of L.D. Cooper. I spoke with the author that did the interview and he stated she was not talking about the Sisters area when she stated his landing spot. he would not tell me anything further! That sounds like she knows where the jump site is? and she claims he lost the money on the way down? sounds to me she is speaking about facts and not what she over heard? the only homes of LD that I could find in the flight path were Eugene Oregon & Reno Nevada. her story sounds very good until you start checking facts, such as why was he hiding? they were not looking for him? I don't expect Marla to have all the answers but, would sure like her to explain the many different versions appearing as time went on? If I was Marla, I would be continuing the quest in finding more evidence, but I doubt she is doing this or even doing anything more about her story? In my opinion Marla needs to validate her story, as in showing documents of him being in the hopital November 25, 1971 She needs to provide some sort of record of his Military background of where and what he did in Korea. Marla needs to explain the landing spot she mentioned above, this would be relatively easy to find if she includes where he lived in November of 71, she did state she was not sure if he was staying at Grannies! public records show him in Reno in 70/71 she must have or know someone that has more pictures of LD perhaps Marla could also explain why Marcia (LD'S wife) will not talk to anyone about his part in this? when you have living people not really backing your story while only relying on words of people who are no longer with us, gives call for a red flag to come into play. Marla should be able to get a copy of his DL in order to show some sort of description that nobody seems to be able to give about Lynn's actual features? Her book has now lost any hope, what could cause this to happen? surely not because of what I have wrtten or what Robert claims, my guess is that they no longer believe her story IMHO. This crime is known all over the world and I find it hard to think that the key to unlocking this mystery is surrounded by a little girl of 8 years old that remembers all of this in great detail in some area's just to hard to swallow! In closing I find it very strange that Lynn would only change his first name in this crime! all of these suspects and story tellers always seem to dodge around the real evidence such as the briefcase/notes/reserve chute etc or Marla's case, he lost the money on the way down, so really the money should be close by the 6 mile circle she speaks of? I have nothing against Marla! I just don't believe her! plain and simple."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MarkBennett 5 #31041 March 8, 2012 Mr Shutter, I don't have any problem with the points you raise. I think Marla remembers what she remembers, but doesn't have the full story. For instance, I don't know how she'd where the landing spot is. I wouldn't expect to hear that kind of specificity in anything she overheard. I do think she remembers what she saw and what her father told her. But that is only small part of the story, but enough to get the attention of the FBI. I will say, though, if Marla lost her book deal it was because the publisher did not believe it would sell -- rather than any statement on the truth or falsity of the story. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Farflung 0 #31042 March 8, 2012 I don’t like to talk about this sort of stuff or use it as a weapon, but this might just work. Marla, call me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #31043 March 8, 2012 Quote yes that is correct but they did not mark all of the costume Jewelry, which also seems to be the case with the actual Cooper item, I will be in contact with them tomorrow to see what she has found on the information I provided, I'm hoping Tom K can provide more information as to what exactly is on the item, marking wise?....etc. I do not remember when the swap of the tie clasp was made for the BYU pin, but it happened quite a while after the fact, after much urging by me. You indicated 60's and 70's which is a little vague. Can you find out when they STOPPED making that particular style. Mac said he bought it new, so it was probably sitting in a Utah store and could have been sitting there forever. Wish I could be more helpful. I could research the written reports of the pin and those of the clasp and try to rough-in a date when the story changed, if anybody really gave a rat's arse. Be hard to nail down due to 'retro-corrected' facts, unless you could find the 'edited' dates as well. Glad to see some unbiased work being done. Don't see Blevins helping out, do you? Matt? Jerry? Wonder why not......... NOT! He is in a parallel world trying to re-light interest on that KC book disaster with wild-hair posts oblivious to the discussion at hand. Reminds me of the two guys in the hospital. Guy is sitting there taking imaginary objects from space and collecting them in his left hand. The fellow beside him is doing the exact opposite. "What's going on here?" asks the visitor. "Shutter there, is plucking the blinking stars from the Heavens," says the Doctor. "And Blevins? he's putting new replacement stars back. We keep them both locked up in here." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #31044 March 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteYou don't believe me? No problem. [No need to take my word for it.] THANK GOD NOBODY DOES!! Truth talks, bullshit walks. You have developed a standing, or I guess, a sitting. It is the principle of the thing. A no-win situation. Right? There is a difference between a public opinion and preaching to the Crew. Than when are you walking? Jo, the pic of the Tie Tack looks "off". It is backwards to the shirt style and there is plenty of other white specs on the pic to suggest that it is not even a tie tack but maybe dirt on the pic. It wasn't Duane, he wasn't part of a conspiracy to change the Pre-boarding security measures (I have e-mails that now want names to sue people over that statement. It was one dude, who probably perished in the woods do to inadequate planning. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #31045 March 8, 2012 Quote Quote yes that is correct but they did not mark all of the costume Jewelry, which also seems to be the case with the actual Cooper item, I will be in contact with them tomorrow to see what she has found on the information I provided, I'm hoping Tom K can provide more information as to what exactly is on the item, marking wise?....etc. I do not remember when the swap of the tie clasp was made for the BYU pin, but it happened quite a while after the fact, after much urging by me. You indicated 60's and 70's which is a little vague. Can you find out when they STOPPED making that particular style. Mac said he bought it new, so it was probably sitting in a Utah store and could have been sitting there forever. Wish I could be more helpful. I could research the written reports of the pin and those of the clasp and try to rough-in a date when the story changed, if anybody really gave a rat's arse. Be hard to nail down due to 'retro-corrected' facts, unless you could find the 'edited' dates as well. Glad to see some unbiased work being done. Don't see Blevins helping out, do you? Matt? Jerry? Wonder why not......... NOT! He is in a parallel world trying to re-light interest on that KC book disaster with wild-hair posts oblivious to the discussion at hand. Reminds me of the two guys in the hospital. Guy is sitting there taking imaginary objects from space and collecting them in his left hand. The fellow beside him is doing the exact opposite. "What's going on here?" asks the visitor. "Shutter there, is plucking the blinking stars from the Heavens," says the Doctor. "And Blevins? he's putting new replacement stars back. We keep them both locked up in here." WE do give a rats ass, which is why we don't believe you. Caught again with a none-truth "Written Reports", your claim all along has been they don not exist. Now you say you will look through these none-existent reports and make up some more info for us. If you do have these none-existent reports scan them and post them. Or take a pic of them and post them, then that might actually qualify as evidence. If it does qualify as evidence the real truth seekers can investigate it and figure out its validity. I do appreciate the small insights you have been sharing as of late, in to who you are though, it helps in keeping your motivation for your story in context. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #31046 March 8, 2012 Fair enough Mark, I guess you are giving her more benefit of doubt than others, which is fine by all means, I tend to go a little crazy with the facts when her name is brought up due to the amount of research I did on her story. I do understand your points and tried to look at her story by trying to back up her statements and found that I could not, it just seems to me that Marla used a small hand gun to make the 'shot heard around the world ' about her story in August, but the resorted to a shot gun by spraying the public with added features to her now growing story by the start of December 2011 "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 21 #31047 March 8, 2012 QuoteI don’t like to talk about this sort of stuff or use it as a weapon, but this might just work. Marla, call me. Careful Farflung, you aren't 18 any more. Better get that pacemaker retuned before you answer the call of the Cooper Siren. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #31048 March 8, 2012 Quote If you do have these none-existent reports scan them and post them. Or take a pic of them and post them, then that might actually qualify as evidence..... Matt It is all evidence. I posted the references to comments and reports on the lapel pin. I don't know why I even try to discuss anything with you. You just can't seem to grasp anything. I AM NOT TRYING A CASE HERE. You want evidence, find your own evidence. Most "evidence" offered on this forum is phony Crew BS. I know what happened, I don't need evidence. I'll point you at evidence that I know is valid. That's it. The Lapel pin was swapped out for this pearl clasp as I said and returned to McCoy. MrShutter is very constructively finding supporting information that has validity and it should support what actually happened. THAT will be evidence when it is put together with other information. Please pay attention to him and LEARN how to investigate a case properly. The point I'm making is we need to substantiate WHEN the tie clasp appeared in the evidence, as it was not there in 1974. The lapel pin was. That is truth, sloppy fabrication has superseded truth and there should be the strong scent of a trail of truth still left. You are not dealing with stupid people here, but they are not brilliant either. They screwed up all over the place. You just have to realize the basics of the plot to uncover the little gold nuggets of truth that still rest in the muck. A closed mind is worthless in investigating Cooper. What I tell you is the truth. You don't have to believe it, just consider it long enough to see a few nuggets, then you might begin to believe what I tell you. No skin off my monkey. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #31049 March 8, 2012 You have never produced any evidence, nor pointed any one to actual evidence. You're getting called out on it and getting mad, tough, you made up the story and can not substantiate it. Your BYU pin can be found in a google image selection in less than .03 seconds. it was never in evidence since it was never at the scene of the crime. The only truths you have told is: you're immature and don't plan on changing, you spent time in the pen (might be fabricated too dunno, no evidence there either), you dropped acid a bunch (might be a fabrication too, but your words here lend to the story). You don't have the grand memory you claim, you keep forgetting your suspect wasn't even named Cooper, remember you claim it was Duane Weber (it wasn't), but hey it has to be hard keeping up with all the changes you have made. You're no investigator, but an instigator. You have been asked to show these reports you are referencing, do so, or admit your story is a fabrication, 100%. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #31050 March 8, 2012 It is all evidence. The references to comments and reports. They can't seem to grasp anything. The Lapel was swapped out for the clasp. And returned to the one of McCoy. MrShutter shall find supporting information. THAT will be evidence when it is put together. Pay attention to him and LEARN properly. No need to substantiate WHEN the clasp appeared. It was not there in 1974. The lapel was. That is truth. There should be the strong scent of a trail of truth. They are not stupid people, but not brilliant either. They screwed up all over the place. To realize the basics little gold nuggets of truth that still rest in the muck. A closed mind is worthless. What I tell you is the truth. To see a few nuggets, then you might begin to believe what I tell you. No skin off the monkey. [Quatrains of Blevins and Abraczinskis coming soon] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #31033 March 8, 2012 yes that is correct but they did not mark all of the costume Jewelry, which also seems to be the case with the actual Cooper item, I will be in contact with them tomorrow to see what she has found on the information I provided, I'm hoping Tom K can provide more information as to what exactly is on the item, marking wise? ANSON Since 1940's. Anson, Inc, Providence, RI Men's jewelry. 1967 women's jewelry was introduced. Tie tack $10 - $25, cuff links $15 - $30, rhinestone pin $15 - $30 ANSON Since 1948 - 1994 MARK ANSON with line underneath it. Anderson Tool and Die Co Anson jewelry. Marks: “ANSON, Pat. Pend.”, “ANSON”. “ANSON, 12 KT GF”, “ANSON, Sterling Silver”, “Anson” in script, “ANSON, Pewter”. “ANSON, Brass”, “ANSON, Rhodium”, “ANSON, 22K GF” When deciding on a gold jewelry item there are always many different terms that come up. The most popular are Solid Gold, Gold Filled, and Gold Plated. It is important to know the differences between Gold Filled jewelry and Gold Plated jewelry when making your choice. Solid gold is of course an exquisite piece of jewelry. Gold filled is the next level and is an amazing, quality alternative to solid gold. Gold plating is the lower level and these items tend to tarnish and can often times turn the skin green. Gold Filled: Gold filled is an actual layer of gold-pressure bonded to another metal. Gold filled is not to be confused with gold plating as filled literally has 100% more gold than gold plating. Gold filled is much more valuable and tarnish resistant. It does not flake off, rub off or turn colors. As a matter of fact, anyone who can wear gold can wear gold filled without worries of any allergic reaction to the jewelry. Gold filled jewelry is an economical alternative to solid gold! anything under 10 kt is not considered gold and is probably the reason they have no marks, we see in other boxes that it states 18 kt gold plated. nothing is in stone as to this being the missing loop in the Cooper Jewelry findings until we can match the two together. I contacted the person selling the Anson set and the reply was....Hi. There are no hallmarks so I can not know if they are gold-coloured or gold-plated. This is a full 4-piece set in its original box, that's why its more expensive, $309 worth Government Regulation: Gold filled items are regulated by the government. These items are therefore so much better then gold plated which has no regulations at all "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #31034 March 8, 2012 Ok, Spokane, that is a bit of a trip for a family that was "extremely poor" (384 mile) did she ever explain how they arrived? a poor mans car does not travel well ya know Kind of figured I had that wrong, took a shot! her Father is buried in Clayton N.M. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkBennett 5 #31035 March 8, 2012 Marla's story may be true or not, and I don't know the answers to the questions you've raised. However, I think Marla is basically a witness. She was eight years old and not an accomplice. Some of the details she's filled in were likely speculative on her part (where Cooper landed, how they got back to Sisters, etc). Boiled down, her case is this: 1) She heard conversations between her uncles before the hijacking. 2) She heard conversations after the hijacking 3) She observed her uncle injured 4) Her father told her at the time not to talk about the hijacking contemporaneously. 5) Near the time of his death, her father reminded her of it and told her to look into it. Because she can't fill in the rest of the story, she's a liar. The FBI must have filled in some details that we don't know. But, why should we expect Marla to have all the answers? It's fine to raise questions about whether her story adds up -- like the age of LD, how did LD jump, get his bearings and make it back to Sisters, OR within 12 hours, etc. But if Marla doesn't know where he landed or what happened to the money -- I mean, how could she? In a perfect world this board would have taken her story, checked it against the facts and weighed why it's possible or why it isn't. Instead, because she couldn't prove her whole case, she was attacked and run off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #31036 March 8, 2012 QuoteCarol did numerous interviews where she identified LD as the best suspect. Here's just one of dozens of similar quotes (377 was there and missed it!?): " I think the jumper might well be Lynn Doyle Cooper”, said Abraczinskis. Abraczinskas said contemporary photographs of L.D. Cooper closely resemble initial sketches of the suspect and some of the most detailed physical descriptions by fellow passengers she has reviewed in the FBI archive." That coming from a noted U of Chicago, award winning scientific illustrator, carries some weight. You can find more at Postmedia News Nov 24, 2011 Georger, WHY don't you be sure she sees this 69 photo of Duane Weber and see what she says! Might be worth your while - as she has been tainted with all of the later photos of Duane - wonder if she will think this one is Marla's Cooper?Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #31037 March 8, 2012 Duane and his wife: Duane: Can't read first word Mou-- Teria Catering Co., Inc 5035 Raytown Rd Kanas City Modulus Corporation 1650 Union Commerce Bldg 915 Euclid Ave Cleveland Ohio (Duane was living in Atlanta) Thirteenth & Baltimore Corp 3300 Baltimore Kansas City Annbar Associates Hotel Muehlebach 12 th & Baltimore Kansas City Interlock Screw & Bolt Corp 1320 Ellsworth Industrial Atlanta. Midnight Sun 225 Peachtree Atalnta, Ga Gateway Sporting Good 3177 Mercier Kansas City Bourbon Orlean Hotel 717 Orleans St N.O., La Wife: Willard-Edgcomb Corp 470? Wyandotte Kansas City S.S. Kresge Company 2727 Second Ave Detroit, Michigan Another one for the wife But it is NO longer readableCopyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #31038 March 8, 2012 Duane: Cherokee Town & Country Club Atlanta, Ga Burke Concret accessories Burlingame, CA (made pretty decent money for the time on this one) Modulus Corporation Cleveland, Ohio American Income Life Atlanta, Ga. Wife: H-K Corporations 764 Miami Circle Atlanta, Ga. S.S. Kresge Company 2727 Second Ave. Detroit, MI Was this a forerunner for K-mart? Because else where it say K-Mart in the tax report. They were living in Columbia, S.C. when they filed taxes.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #31039 March 8, 2012 I guess they are living off of Garage Sales and Flea Markets Sold personal items for $1500 Works for American Income but make little money - 1099 reflect about a total of about $2300 for whole yr (this was Commissions reporte on 1099). Wife: The Singer Company Robinson Skipper (Columbia S.C) Total Income for both was $3733.17. This was a short simple file with NO expenses deducted. That $3733.17 was their TOTAL income. Now move on to 1972, but I can only tell you what I have heard from the ex-wife before she died. Early 1972 - they purchase 2 (TWO) new cars (I do have pictures of the 2 cars). Filing date is when she said she went back to him. Feb. 17 1972. She had told me she went to Lawrence in Nov of 1971 and he called her to come back in Feb. 1972. yet they divorce in May 1972 and he moves her to KS and then to CA. According to her he paid for the move. He even flew the daughter out there at a later date...but, do not know what yr. For a guy who had no money he sure was doing a lot of things in 1972. He also loaned his boss $5,000 on a note. Where the hell did he get 5K. Yea, I know the answer. Duane Weber was a thief. I would say he was a pretty good thief to be able to buy 2 new cars and loan his boss 5K in 1972 after virtually making nothing the yr before. He even remarries immediately in 1972 (mid yr). His new wife had a home - Papers on house - indicates money spent to add 2 rooms and drill two wells - I assume this is the home the new wife had that burned down during the fair in 1972. The story I heard is that someone broke in looking for something they thought he had and then set fire to the structure. How much of that is true I do not know. I only know what he told me and what little is in the 1972 taxes he filed with his new wife. He did NOT report the 2 new cars he bought while still with the ex-wife 1972. Presumably she like myself knew little of his past. Duane left a lot of victims along the way thru out the yrs. From 1972 until 1977 - he hurt a lot of people according to the stories I have heard, yet the man who I met in 1977 and married in 1978 was just not what he has been portrayed as by others from 1972 to 1977. He spent a lot of money in those yrs 1972 to 1977 and took a lot of trips with his new wife - they were dressed to the hilt in the pictures I saw. Duane was a man of many looks and personalities. The ex before me - thought he was a horrible monster and bastard, but the one prior to him thought the sun rose and set with Weber. She even tried to kill herself when he finally left her in 1972, Strange thing - 1972 the ex and Duane went to N.Y for New Yrs, Both of them slipped up and told the story about N.Y. I questioned the ex about this and she realized she had been caught with her hand in the candy jar. If she was NOT with him how did they go to N.Y. for New yrs 1972! She sent me the pictures and had something else for me before she died. I was not letting her have my phone number with my new husband because when I was living on my own she would call me at 1AM and 2AM at home and I had to be at work a 9AM. Therefore I would call her about every 3 months to see how she was doing as her health was failing. I will never forget the last time I called her after she went into an assisted living and later took a fall and broke her hip. She BEGGED me for my phone number and address so she could send me something. The next time I called the nurse picked up the phone...the nurse who answered was with her when she died suddenly 2 hours before. I never got to say good-bye nor did I ever find out what she had to send me. She had sent me the pictures I have - before going into the assisted living. I just could not trust her NOT to call me in the middle of the night after I remarried in 2002 - I think that hurt her feelings, but I hope she understood. Her favorite expression when talking to me was said affectionately thru a lot of alcohol - "You little Shit Face I ove you". Her voice was one you would remember and her expressions and choice of verbage. I played a tape over the phone for Max - he was sure the ex and Clara were one and the same. It was then he asked me how to find her. After he returned from CA. he sent me a farewell letter - I think he found Clara and that was his goal. This has been a long chase, but now the chase is over.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #31040 March 8, 2012 Marla first claimed that she over heard them say, all we have to do is go back into the woods and get the money, this was her story for several months, then on Decmber 6, 2011 she said the following during a phone interview. She went on to explain that the reports of the jump had been misreported. The weather was bad on the night of November 24th but D.B. Cooper told the pilot at what speed, altitude and direction to fly. L.D. Cooper worked as a surveyor and knew this area very well. It has been reported that D.B. Cooper jumped over a very heavily wooded area when, in all actuality, he jumped over farmland and had planned his jump to put himself inside of a six mile area which was only seven miles from the home of L.D. Cooper. I spoke with the author that did the interview and he stated she was not talking about the Sisters area when she stated his landing spot. he would not tell me anything further! That sounds like she knows where the jump site is? and she claims he lost the money on the way down? sounds to me she is speaking about facts and not what she over heard? the only homes of LD that I could find in the flight path were Eugene Oregon & Reno Nevada. her story sounds very good until you start checking facts, such as why was he hiding? they were not looking for him? I don't expect Marla to have all the answers but, would sure like her to explain the many different versions appearing as time went on? If I was Marla, I would be continuing the quest in finding more evidence, but I doubt she is doing this or even doing anything more about her story? In my opinion Marla needs to validate her story, as in showing documents of him being in the hopital November 25, 1971 She needs to provide some sort of record of his Military background of where and what he did in Korea. Marla needs to explain the landing spot she mentioned above, this would be relatively easy to find if she includes where he lived in November of 71, she did state she was not sure if he was staying at Grannies! public records show him in Reno in 70/71 she must have or know someone that has more pictures of LD perhaps Marla could also explain why Marcia (LD'S wife) will not talk to anyone about his part in this? when you have living people not really backing your story while only relying on words of people who are no longer with us, gives call for a red flag to come into play. Marla should be able to get a copy of his DL in order to show some sort of description that nobody seems to be able to give about Lynn's actual features? Her book has now lost any hope, what could cause this to happen? surely not because of what I have wrtten or what Robert claims, my guess is that they no longer believe her story IMHO. This crime is known all over the world and I find it hard to think that the key to unlocking this mystery is surrounded by a little girl of 8 years old that remembers all of this in great detail in some area's just to hard to swallow! In closing I find it very strange that Lynn would only change his first name in this crime! all of these suspects and story tellers always seem to dodge around the real evidence such as the briefcase/notes/reserve chute etc or Marla's case, he lost the money on the way down, so really the money should be close by the 6 mile circle she speaks of? I have nothing against Marla! I just don't believe her! plain and simple."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkBennett 5 #31041 March 8, 2012 Mr Shutter, I don't have any problem with the points you raise. I think Marla remembers what she remembers, but doesn't have the full story. For instance, I don't know how she'd where the landing spot is. I wouldn't expect to hear that kind of specificity in anything she overheard. I do think she remembers what she saw and what her father told her. But that is only small part of the story, but enough to get the attention of the FBI. I will say, though, if Marla lost her book deal it was because the publisher did not believe it would sell -- rather than any statement on the truth or falsity of the story. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #31042 March 8, 2012 I don’t like to talk about this sort of stuff or use it as a weapon, but this might just work. Marla, call me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #31043 March 8, 2012 Quote yes that is correct but they did not mark all of the costume Jewelry, which also seems to be the case with the actual Cooper item, I will be in contact with them tomorrow to see what she has found on the information I provided, I'm hoping Tom K can provide more information as to what exactly is on the item, marking wise?....etc. I do not remember when the swap of the tie clasp was made for the BYU pin, but it happened quite a while after the fact, after much urging by me. You indicated 60's and 70's which is a little vague. Can you find out when they STOPPED making that particular style. Mac said he bought it new, so it was probably sitting in a Utah store and could have been sitting there forever. Wish I could be more helpful. I could research the written reports of the pin and those of the clasp and try to rough-in a date when the story changed, if anybody really gave a rat's arse. Be hard to nail down due to 'retro-corrected' facts, unless you could find the 'edited' dates as well. Glad to see some unbiased work being done. Don't see Blevins helping out, do you? Matt? Jerry? Wonder why not......... NOT! He is in a parallel world trying to re-light interest on that KC book disaster with wild-hair posts oblivious to the discussion at hand. Reminds me of the two guys in the hospital. Guy is sitting there taking imaginary objects from space and collecting them in his left hand. The fellow beside him is doing the exact opposite. "What's going on here?" asks the visitor. "Shutter there, is plucking the blinking stars from the Heavens," says the Doctor. "And Blevins? he's putting new replacement stars back. We keep them both locked up in here." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #31044 March 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteYou don't believe me? No problem. [No need to take my word for it.] THANK GOD NOBODY DOES!! Truth talks, bullshit walks. You have developed a standing, or I guess, a sitting. It is the principle of the thing. A no-win situation. Right? There is a difference between a public opinion and preaching to the Crew. Than when are you walking? Jo, the pic of the Tie Tack looks "off". It is backwards to the shirt style and there is plenty of other white specs on the pic to suggest that it is not even a tie tack but maybe dirt on the pic. It wasn't Duane, he wasn't part of a conspiracy to change the Pre-boarding security measures (I have e-mails that now want names to sue people over that statement. It was one dude, who probably perished in the woods do to inadequate planning. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #31045 March 8, 2012 Quote Quote yes that is correct but they did not mark all of the costume Jewelry, which also seems to be the case with the actual Cooper item, I will be in contact with them tomorrow to see what she has found on the information I provided, I'm hoping Tom K can provide more information as to what exactly is on the item, marking wise?....etc. I do not remember when the swap of the tie clasp was made for the BYU pin, but it happened quite a while after the fact, after much urging by me. You indicated 60's and 70's which is a little vague. Can you find out when they STOPPED making that particular style. Mac said he bought it new, so it was probably sitting in a Utah store and could have been sitting there forever. Wish I could be more helpful. I could research the written reports of the pin and those of the clasp and try to rough-in a date when the story changed, if anybody really gave a rat's arse. Be hard to nail down due to 'retro-corrected' facts, unless you could find the 'edited' dates as well. Glad to see some unbiased work being done. Don't see Blevins helping out, do you? Matt? Jerry? Wonder why not......... NOT! He is in a parallel world trying to re-light interest on that KC book disaster with wild-hair posts oblivious to the discussion at hand. Reminds me of the two guys in the hospital. Guy is sitting there taking imaginary objects from space and collecting them in his left hand. The fellow beside him is doing the exact opposite. "What's going on here?" asks the visitor. "Shutter there, is plucking the blinking stars from the Heavens," says the Doctor. "And Blevins? he's putting new replacement stars back. We keep them both locked up in here." WE do give a rats ass, which is why we don't believe you. Caught again with a none-truth "Written Reports", your claim all along has been they don not exist. Now you say you will look through these none-existent reports and make up some more info for us. If you do have these none-existent reports scan them and post them. Or take a pic of them and post them, then that might actually qualify as evidence. If it does qualify as evidence the real truth seekers can investigate it and figure out its validity. I do appreciate the small insights you have been sharing as of late, in to who you are though, it helps in keeping your motivation for your story in context. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #31046 March 8, 2012 Fair enough Mark, I guess you are giving her more benefit of doubt than others, which is fine by all means, I tend to go a little crazy with the facts when her name is brought up due to the amount of research I did on her story. I do understand your points and tried to look at her story by trying to back up her statements and found that I could not, it just seems to me that Marla used a small hand gun to make the 'shot heard around the world ' about her story in August, but the resorted to a shot gun by spraying the public with added features to her now growing story by the start of December 2011 "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 21 #31047 March 8, 2012 QuoteI don’t like to talk about this sort of stuff or use it as a weapon, but this might just work. Marla, call me. Careful Farflung, you aren't 18 any more. Better get that pacemaker retuned before you answer the call of the Cooper Siren. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #31048 March 8, 2012 Quote If you do have these none-existent reports scan them and post them. Or take a pic of them and post them, then that might actually qualify as evidence..... Matt It is all evidence. I posted the references to comments and reports on the lapel pin. I don't know why I even try to discuss anything with you. You just can't seem to grasp anything. I AM NOT TRYING A CASE HERE. You want evidence, find your own evidence. Most "evidence" offered on this forum is phony Crew BS. I know what happened, I don't need evidence. I'll point you at evidence that I know is valid. That's it. The Lapel pin was swapped out for this pearl clasp as I said and returned to McCoy. MrShutter is very constructively finding supporting information that has validity and it should support what actually happened. THAT will be evidence when it is put together with other information. Please pay attention to him and LEARN how to investigate a case properly. The point I'm making is we need to substantiate WHEN the tie clasp appeared in the evidence, as it was not there in 1974. The lapel pin was. That is truth, sloppy fabrication has superseded truth and there should be the strong scent of a trail of truth still left. You are not dealing with stupid people here, but they are not brilliant either. They screwed up all over the place. You just have to realize the basics of the plot to uncover the little gold nuggets of truth that still rest in the muck. A closed mind is worthless in investigating Cooper. What I tell you is the truth. You don't have to believe it, just consider it long enough to see a few nuggets, then you might begin to believe what I tell you. No skin off my monkey. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #31049 March 8, 2012 You have never produced any evidence, nor pointed any one to actual evidence. You're getting called out on it and getting mad, tough, you made up the story and can not substantiate it. Your BYU pin can be found in a google image selection in less than .03 seconds. it was never in evidence since it was never at the scene of the crime. The only truths you have told is: you're immature and don't plan on changing, you spent time in the pen (might be fabricated too dunno, no evidence there either), you dropped acid a bunch (might be a fabrication too, but your words here lend to the story). You don't have the grand memory you claim, you keep forgetting your suspect wasn't even named Cooper, remember you claim it was Duane Weber (it wasn't), but hey it has to be hard keeping up with all the changes you have made. You're no investigator, but an instigator. You have been asked to show these reports you are referencing, do so, or admit your story is a fabrication, 100%. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #31050 March 8, 2012 It is all evidence. The references to comments and reports. They can't seem to grasp anything. The Lapel was swapped out for the clasp. And returned to the one of McCoy. MrShutter shall find supporting information. THAT will be evidence when it is put together. Pay attention to him and LEARN properly. No need to substantiate WHEN the clasp appeared. It was not there in 1974. The lapel was. That is truth. There should be the strong scent of a trail of truth. They are not stupid people, but not brilliant either. They screwed up all over the place. To realize the basics little gold nuggets of truth that still rest in the muck. A closed mind is worthless. What I tell you is the truth. To see a few nuggets, then you might begin to believe what I tell you. No skin off the monkey. [Quatrains of Blevins and Abraczinskis coming soon] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
