DB Cooper

[georger 199]

No onboard meals were served, only snacks and drinks. I would ask Geoff Gray this question.

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'I don't remember where...but I believe I read that the flight crew tried maneuvers to get the hijacker off the steps...that could be a total fabrication as I can't remember where that rumor/factoid came from.'

Never heard this to be a fact. The crew, in general, were more than willing to do whatever Cooper asked, since they were afraid he might blow the plane in flight, anyway.

[georger 199]

If they did order food that means the galley was empty and it just may have been the garbage strewn about.

[georger 199]

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Quote:

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'I believe I remember the crew getting food in Seattle...right or wrong?'

Right.

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'If they did order food that means the galley was empty and it just may have been the garbage strewn about...'

No onboard meals were served, only snacks and drinks. I would ask Geoff Gray this question.

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'I don't remember where...but I believe I read that the flight crew tried maneuvers to get the hijacker off the steps...that could be a total fabrication as I can't remember where that rumor/factoid came from.'

Never heard this to be a fact. The crew, in general, were more than willing to do whatever Cooper asked, since they were afraid he might blow the plane in flight, anyway.

No dogsl just pigs and monkies and some lowlifes
from Auburn Washington leading clydsdales, four
abreast. Oh a wolverines too!

They all were sucking Popeye lolly pops.

[georger 199]

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Second, in the last sentence of you post you state that food was scattered over the rear portion of the cabin of the aircraft after it landed in Reno. During the FBI's later flight tests, agents remarked about how calm the wind was in the rear portion of the cabin. So how do you explain the food getting scattered around as was reported? And this is a valid question.

I have some questions about the Reno FBI's initial entry into flight 305's cabin...

Did they have dogs?

I believe I remember the crew getting food in Seattle...right or wrong?

If they did order food that means the galley was empty and it just may have been the garbage strewn about.

I don't remember where...but I believe I read that the flight crew tried maneuvers to get the hijacker off the steps...that could be a total fabrication as I can't remember where that rumor/factoid came from.

Sounds like a skydiver food fight......

hangdiver

As I understand it, Flight 305 had a couple of stops somewhere between Minneapolis and Portland. Presumably, a full lunch service would have been included on one of those legs.

Did NWA unload the gallley trash and cutlery in Portland or did they haul it on to Seattle and unload it there plus stock up on meals for the next leg that the aircraft would fly? My guess is Seattle, an NWA hub, is where the NWA meal service would have been loaded for the next leg.

So there may have been nothing (except for the usual sodas and peanut type snacks for kids) on board the airliner at the time it was hijacked. And, of course, the liquor service. The meal carts would have been secured before the landing in Portland and left there since no particular food service was offered on the leg to Seattle.

So how did some food get scattered over the rear portion of the cabin? It would probably come from the serving carts trash. And it would take a lot of airflow, which the FBI didn't find during their trials, or a lot of vigorous aircraft maneuvering to get the food remants out of the carts.

Just remember that the flight crew had been informed by the Chief FAA Psychiatrist in Washington that Cooper would probably blow up the aircraft when he jumped. That information is in the Seattle ground radio transcripts.

When Cooper headed down those stairs, he was no longer in control of the situation. If you were a flight crew member, would you trust Cooper not to blow you out of the sky? Or would you take the opportunity to control your own fate as much as possible?

Surprised (from your version given above) Geof Gray missed the important facts of this - he had em when he and I talked - God only knows what happened after that - we interviewed the exact same people, which Geof is 100% aware of.

Sorry Blevins missed out on this!

Guess he will have to wing it on Blevimations.

Good luck. My lips are SEALED!

[Robert99 38]

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'I believe I remember the crew getting food in Seattle...right or wrong?'

Right.

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'If they did order food that means the galley was empty and it just may have been the garbage strewn about...'

No onboard meals were served, only snacks and drinks. I would ask Geoff Gray this question.

Quote

'I don't remember where...but I believe I read that the flight crew tried maneuvers to get the hijacker off the steps...that could be a total fabrication as I can't remember where that rumor/factoid came from.'

Never heard this to be a fact. The crew, in general, were more than willing to do whatever Cooper asked, since they were afraid he might blow the plane in flight, anyway.

No dogsl just pigs and monkies and some lowlifes
from Auburn Washington leading clydsdales, four
abreast. Oh a wolverines too!

They all were sucking Popeye lolly pops.

Actually, I believe 5 box meals were sent to the aircraft by Al Lee while it was on the ground in Seattle. They were in another box which also contained the additional aeronautical charts that the crew would need to fly to Reno and other points south.

[BruceSmith 3]

(I)n the last sentence of you post you state that food was scattered over the rear portion of the cabin of the aircraft after it landed in Reno.

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Rataczak told me during our interview in 2009 that Cooper had meals brought aboard for the crew while they refueled in Seattle. Bill said the dinners were placed in styrofoam containers and placed on the seats in first class nearest the cockpit. He said they never touched them and that they were still there when they landed in Reno.

He described the LE entrance onto the plane at Reno as near-pandemonium, and that the dogs and their handlers were one of the first to board. They dogs headed straight for the food and ate away. Bill laughed as he told me this. It seems like there was little discipline or control of the dogs, and perhaps elsewhere on the aircraft at that time. I gather from what Bill told me that the dogs made a mess.

• Quote

[georger 199]

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Quote:

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'I believe I remember the crew getting food in Seattle...right or wrong?'

Right.

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'If they did order food that means the galley was empty and it just may have been the garbage strewn about...'

No onboard meals were served, only snacks and drinks. I would ask Geoff Gray this question.

Quote

'I don't remember where...but I believe I read that the flight crew tried maneuvers to get the hijacker off the steps...that could be a total fabrication as I can't remember where that rumor/factoid came from.'

Never heard this to be a fact. The crew, in general, were more than willing to do whatever Cooper asked, since they were afraid he might blow the plane in flight, anyway.

No dogsl just pigs and monkies and some lowlifes
from Auburn Washington leading clydsdales, four
abreast. Oh a wolverines too!

They all were sucking Popeye lolly pops.

Actually, I believe 5 box meals were sent to the aircraft by Al Lee while it was on the ground in Seattle. They were in another box which also contained the additional aeronautical charts that the crew would need to fly to Reno and other points south.

now you are getting warm. sellit to Blevins for his
next book! Dont let that welfare case steal
everything!

[georger 199]

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Rataczak told me during our interview in 2009 that Cooper had meals brought aboard for the crew while they refueled in Seattle. Bill said the dinners were placed in styrofoam containers and placed on the seats in first class nearest the cockpit. He said they never touched them and that they were still there when they landed in Reno.

He described the LE entrance onto the plane at Reno as near-pandemonium, and that the dogs and their handlers were one of the first to board. They dogs headed straight for the food and ate away. Bill laughed as he told me this. It seems like there was little discipline or control of the dogs, and perhaps elsewhere on the aircraft at that time. I gather from what Bill told me that the dogs made a mess.

You just gave Blevins his next chapter - free!

But that is not all - keep going - talk to Gray. Geof
has the details. do not give it to Blevins. Some who
do not like you will not approve my saying this but Bruce: keep it and publish your own story with this.

Will check back later. Monday has already started
here.

[airtwardo 6]

georger..buddy...we get it, ya don't like Mr. B.

I dunno which is more entertaining, watching Blevins push your buttons, grin & sit back...or watchin' you throw haymakers at the wind.

Jeeze man, give it a rest...4 years and 5000 posts ago you use to actually add poignant & pertinent input...what happened?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[georger 199]

Jeeze man, give it a rest...4 years and 5000 posts ago you use to actually add poignant & pertinent input...what happened?

Blevins is not my problem.

This isnt my responsibility. Not even on a good
day. Get your head straight.

[airtwardo 6]

Blevins is not my problem.

This isnt my responsibility. Not even on a good
day. Get your head straight.

THAT took SEVEN edits...in 22 minutes??

I think MY Head is okay... thanks

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[georger 199]

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Blevins is not my problem.

This isnt my responsibility. Not even on a good
day. Get your head straight.

so? Blevins does 22 edits in 3 mins!

Two weeks ago, let me remind you, we dug Blevins
out of a mess. We comunicated about this trying to
extricate him, or rather trying to get him to take
actions to extricate himself. It was like pulling teeth
to get him to see common sense!

He was all morose and worried over allegations
against him, if you recall.

That over he comes back here full of piss and
vinegar like nothing ever happened, and I had to
wonder: "Is Blevins even playing with a full deck?"

I have decided he isnt playing with a full deck.
He is now cut off from my private email. Ive had
enough of his bs. You can do or say what you want
but my memory is fresh from two weeks ago, and
now here we are all over again.

Think it over Airt! This is what I mean by get your
head straight. Its not disrespect for you but only a
reminder, the very opposite, so do what you want
about ole Blev. My mind is made up.

Take care. no need for afterthought and edits!

[matthewcline 0]

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the "A" is the exit altitude,

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But what about the main variable~ P for pull altitude Matt?

That is why you would do the drift at each 1000' increment. This would give you a lot of drift modules, but we would see a trend, and get a target area, that would be far closer than pure speculation/fabrication. "Cause we be usen Sci-ants!"

Matt

Gotcha...

If there was an agreement on the winds aloft data, I could hash out the "gazintas". I don't see the agreement happening though.

Since we both know there are two common sets of winds aloft reports, civil aero and Mil Weather. Civil being typically (but not always) at 3000' increments, and Mil being typically (but not always) at 1000' increments.

The Mil Weather would make the module more accurate as there are better numbers for the averages. But, either could make a search grid that can then be placed on to the appropriate down wind edge of the flight path down (the next agreement needed) and narrow down the search area.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[matthewcline 0]

I hope that by this spirited reply, it means your back to feeling more like yourself and are feeling better!

That is my sincere wish.
Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[BobKnoss 0]

Purpose?

[377 21]

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(I)n the last sentence of you post you state that food was scattered over the rear portion of the cabin of the aircraft after it landed in Reno.

Quote

Rataczak told me during our interview in 2009 that Cooper had meals brought aboard for the crew while they refueled in Seattle. Bill said the dinners were placed in styrofoam containers and placed on the seats in first class nearest the cockpit. He said they never touched them and that they were still there when they landed in Reno.

He described the LE entrance onto the plane at Reno as near-pandemonium, and that the dogs and their handlers were one of the first to board. They dogs headed straight for the food and ate away. Bill laughed as he told me this. It seems like there was little discipline or control of the dogs, and perhaps elsewhere on the aircraft at that time. I gather from what Bill told me that the dogs made a mess.

"The dog ate my homework" FBI style.

Maybe the FBI K9s ate the cigarette butts too?

On the DC 9 with an open rear door there was no air disturbance inside the cabin, even right next to the bulkhead door. It was dead calm. Same in a C 130 standing right on the lowered tailgate ramp at 14,000 feet.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

• Quote

[BobKnoss 0]

Mucklow and Weber probably had a food fight. Check Mad Magazine for more details. Makes more sense when you get the whole post. Better to limit my posts to the truth rather make fun. Deleted was good. Yours too.

[georger 199]

Food scattering on the landing in Reno: Question for Geoff Gray, since as far as I know, he is the only one to have said this. He should source it, I think.

[skyjack71 0]

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Is this your attempt at baiting? I'm the guy who gives books to kids at Christmas and publishes young authors once a year.

If I read ONE more word about your braggart ways I am going to scream so loud you will hear it in WA.

"Braggart" - I borrowed that word from Geoffry.

Please STOP trying to confuse the FACTS of the case and stop re-writing your book. It is pathetic...if you had a reputation as a writer - you have destroyed it by changing and changing a story. When a book is written and published - I do NOT expect to see constant rewrites.

This whole thing has gotten RIDICULOUS with your constant re-writes and questions you should already know. The MAIN reason I NEVER allowed anyone to WRITE a book about Weber. I want the truth - not a fabrication.

Stand up and be counted. The only way to do that is to HOLD the line. I defend myself against misrepresentation or deliberate lies regarding things I have tried to tell. When the REAL truth is known (and you continued to re-write your story over and over) any reputation you have as a writer will be a WASH.

NO ONE wants to read a book that constantly changes and changes - especially one about a real crime. I speak from a readers stand point on this.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BobKnoss 0]

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............... I want the truth - not a fabrication............... Stand up and be counted. The only way to do that is to HOLD the line. I defend myself against misrepresentation or deliberate lies regarding things I have tried to tell. When the REAL truth is known...........

Seems the 'truth' is a slippery slope. WE can only tell part of the truth because of participants civil rights. We can't tell the real truth because although it was legal to order it, it was illegal to actually do it, so we 'excuse' the criminals after they die and cover it up for the others until they do? Blame it on the dead guys because their civil rights don't matter anymore? It wasn't really a crime, but it was illegal? McCoy gets fake medals for heroism in place of rewards for Project Norjak? This whole thing is growing into a pissing match for who can tell the biggest, bestest Jack in the Beanstalk story. The Cooper library looks like a logging clear-cut with all the failed books. Nobody would really care except for the continued effort to diffuse suspicion. A self-generated perpetual wheel of cover-up. Time to clear the air. The Enquirer would be happy to release the true story, you think? Betcha, huh? Conspiracy, intrigue, cloak and mirrors, big name involvement, more Nixon secrets, ties to JE Ray, sex, Government undercover........... a veritable publisher's gold mine. (not Jerry's) Betcha. Not for sale.

[georger 199]

Seems the 'truth' is a slippery slope. .

[georger 199]

THAT took SEVEN edits...in 22 minutes??

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This is the second time this has come up. Newe
(spelling change to suit Roibert99) one on me! So
you (space correction) actually sit and monitor/count
people's edits? Why would anyone do that or be
concerned about that? What do you think an [edit]
indicates?

Indecision. Boredom. Parkinson's?
Lots of phone calls to answer ie interuptions. Rank
incompetence.

a b c d e f g h io j k l m o p r t

[last edit: thinks that should be ok] click.

[edit of edit - question arises}: do you count toe
taps?

[edit]: OH I see! There is this underlined [edit]
thingie that if clicked shows the number and times
of edits as person has made to their post _very
crucial info somehow!. Gee, this site really is
autobated.

What will they think of next?

(thinking to self) Fire, air, earth, water, ether, and
the wheel?



{last edit I promise - to correct grammar, spacings,
etc}

{[\ very last edit \{}] spacing error above, sorry.

THERE BY GOD! THAT LOOKS RIGHT!

THANKS FOR WAITING.

HAVE A NICE EDIT WATCHING DAY -

[airtwardo 6]

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THAT took SEVEN edits...in 22 minutes??

Quote

This is the second time this has come up. Newe
(spelling change to suit Roibert99) one on me! So
you (space correction) actually sit and monitor/count
people's edits? Why would anyone do that or be
concerned about that? What do you think an [edit]
indicates?

Indecision. Boredom. Parkinson's?
Lots of phone calls to answer ie interuptions. Rank
incompetence.

a b c d e f g h io j k l m o p r t

[last edit: thinks that should be ok] click.

[edit of edit - question arises}: do you count toe
taps?

[edit]: OH I see! There is this underlined [edit]
thingie that if clicked shows the number and times
of edits as person has made to their post _very
crucial info somehow!. Gee, this site really is
autobated.

What will they think of next?

(thinking to self) Fire, air, earth, water, ether, and
the wheel?



{last edit I promise - to correct grammar, spacings,
etc}

{[\ very last edit \{}] spacing error above, sorry.

THERE BY GOD! THAT LOOKS RIGHT!

THANKS FOR WAITING.

HAVE A NICE EDIT WATCHING DAY -

Why would anyone do that or be
concerned about that? What do you think an [edit]
indicates?


~~Well...as you've figured out, it only takes a millisecond to see the edit list.

Why?

Two reasons~

~one is that when you edit there is a box available to give a reason for the edit, many people on this site will fill in the box, spelling, add a line etc.

~the second reason is because it helps to perhaps evaluate the person posting.
Since this isn't face to face I tend to try to figure out who I'm talking to with what information is available.

It's not always accurate or reliable...but many times I've found that when someone makes say 11 edits in 16 minutes as you did in the post above, it smacks of someone indecisive, unclear of their thoughts, possibly someone that has difficulty expressing their thoughts coherently.

NOT saying this applies to you, but it is an often observed trend in your posting style.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[georger 199]

Since this isn't face to face I tend to try to figure out who I'm talking to with what information is available.

It's not always accurate or reliable...but many times I've found that when someone makes say 11 edits in 16 minutes as you did in the post above, it smacks of someone indecisive, unclear of their thoughts, possibly someone that has difficulty expressing their thoughts coherently.

well yours is an "exotic" approach to be sure.

edits count more than words/thoughts ?

I can put you in touch with an authority on
Shakespearre. who has a long list of people who
have examine Shakespearrean writing with 'special
techniques'. Looking for [edits] as a key to
unraveling the realities Shakespearre might be a
formula worth major media time!

I mean some form of "truth" is your ultimate goal,
I assume?

Does my ethnic background show in my edits?

On the other hand, have you ever seen actual
copies of manuscript from Beethoven, Mozart,
Oppenheimer, Rush Limbau, ... or Robt99 or
RobertMBlevins, for that matter ?

Obviously you are after an algorythm of some kind,
revealed by, tied to, fostered by ... [edit]s.

Now this post will not be edited because: I edited it
as I went along! Fooled ya this time, eh!

Or, I could have used the Preview and Spelling
checking function provided here at DZ, to short
circuit the dirtier method of editing afterthe fact -
just to keep things clean for edit watcher counters.

Im not sure if more or less edits proves anything
or how one could beuild a reliable indicator by
watching edits alone ... youdont even know what my
right is doing while I write with the left as Im
answering telephone calls, from ... ?

I think your formula is simplistic and idiotic!

From now on I will just leave things as they come of
f my fingers complet with chicken tracks and who k
nows what - I want to look li
ke and be - Beecncdhdgvthoven!

[edit] aw shit I had to edit this to ask to ask -

I have always noticed you leave very long open
spaces at the bottoms of your posts. Why!?

[BobKnoss 0]

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Since this isn't face to face I tend to try to figure out who I'm talking to with what information is available.

It's not always accurate or reliable... indecisive, unclear of their thoughts, possibly someone that has difficulty expressing their thoughts coherently.

Your new training film: [url http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIS5n9Oyzsc [/url]

This was the educational foundation for "Blast" and will get you over your hesitancy disorder. Study the technique. Sorry, the temptation is just too great for me to deal with.