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Quote

"degraded DNA sample could only be used to exclude individuals as possible donors"

Come on, Flyjack. This is WAY old news. Seattle FBI Agent Frederick Gutt told me this eight years ago, both in an email and a phone call to our office. Not to harp on you, but he also said they (Seattle FBI) wouldn't be doing any more comparisons due to the costs. 

It may be cheaper today to do the test than it was back then, I don't know. But this DNA evidence is going absolutely nowhere unless the FBI finally decides to release their partial profile. It could be they will never make it public, just in case someone gets the bright idea to fake results on their own suspect. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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9 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Come on, Flyjack. This is WAY old news. Seattle FBI Agent Frederick Gutt told me this eight years ago, both in an email and a phone call to our office. Not to harp on you, but he also said they (Seattle FBI) wouldn't be doing any more comparisons due to the costs. 

I never claimed the info was new,, 

What is new is the fact that it is in the FBI docs.. previously it was hearsay from agents.

I posted the FBI doc as confirmation...  get it.

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8 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

I never claimed the info was new,, 

What is new is the fact that it is in the FBI docs.. previously it was hearsay from agents.

I posted the FBI doc as confirmation...  get it.

Okay, I get it. Ha...just shows I was right all those years ago when I posted up what Agent Gutt said on this matter. It was one of the last times the Seattle FBI was responding to inquiries in a straight-up, 'sure-I-will-tell-you-everything' manner. I know some of you will not like hearing this, but it was Marla Cooper who caused the Seattle FBI to basically close the door on people regarding open discussion of the facts on the case. I don't think she caused this on purpose, although at one time I thought maybe she did. But the hard truth is that the FBI spent into a good five figures checking out her claims, and trying to draw DNA from those items that she provided belonging to her uncle...and the whole thing turned out to be nothing. I never figured out whether she was sincere, but for a while (at the time she was hot and heavy with her claims) I had access to her Facebook page and I didn't like what I saw there. 

For example, she made fun of Geoff Gray's sagging book sales that were a result of her coming forward. For another, her boasting about 'I'm going to create my own media frenzy...' etc. In addition, Marla's own brother made a post saying he wasn't going near any of her claims. And he was there with Marla that particular weekend in 1971. I didn't mind these things so much except that after the Seattle FBI realized they had been 'had' by Marla, either deliberately or not, they slammed down the Information Gateway on everyone else. 

**************

Update on the July Cooper Party:  We are still undecided on whether to finalize the party and release the budget. Hard to say whether we will reach the minimum number of applicants by June 5th. Frankly, I still haven't been able to get it through the heads of the Cooper Community that both events (Convention and Party) should be actively supporting each other. The Peanut Gallery (members of the Cooper Forum) continue their baloney posts on Bruce Smith's website and we believe this will end up hurting attendance to any Convention, and could even cause some scheduled speakers to the convention to withdraw from the event. If it doesn't do that, it could hurt your ticket sales with the public at least. These attacks do not affect us in the slightest, but they could hurt YOU GUYS much more. My suggestion is someone should tell Bruce Smith to get control of his own website. These comments appear on the same article he wrote promoting the Convention. That means a lot of people will judge the validity of the convention, as well as Smith himself, by what he allows on his own website. 

You guys (supporters and scheduled speakers for the November convention) have a hard road to travel as it is. We are well aware of this, since we've done the theater thing a few times ourselves. You want to sell expensive tickets ($21.50 a seat) to an event the week prior to Thanksgiving. Your situation was better back in 2019 prior to the pandemic, and yet reports came to me that barely a hundred people showed up if you include the people who participated on stage. Now Eric wants to sell 300-500 seats in a much different situation, one where many people are reluctant to gather in groups anyway. 

We want to support you guys, we really do...but you make it very difficult for us to do so. You guys don't seem to understand what is going on here. We get to go first, as far as the two Cooper events planned for this year. Alienating Adventure Books of Seattle and going with crazy and hateful internet comments, some of them made using the same names as people slated to speak at your convention...is really dumb in our opinion. We want you guys to succeed, because what is good for the convention is also good for AB of Seattle. 

But...it is a two-way street here. If you want our support publicly for the convention, you will have to back off the garbage postings, (which only hurt YOUR EVENT anyway) and start working with us to a degree. If we were motivated to assist you, we could promote your event at the Cooper Party heavily, do stuff with the media, Facebook, the Quora Space on Cooper, WordPress, and a few other locations, including a dedicated page at the main AB of Seattle website. Two local papers already want stories on the Cooper Party as soon as we are willing to cooperate with them...and I would like nothing better than to make sure people are informed about the Convention and why we believe people should not miss it. 

In order for this to happen, you folks should stop shooting yourselves in the foot and work with us. Otherwise, maybe we just do the party and then you are on your own. As it is, I could probably count on 50-60 people showing up in Greenwater right now, if I held the party over the next good weekend. That number will surely increase before Decision Day comes. (June 5) As far as July goes, we know there will be drop-ins, or the people who will probably go out there and follow the signs the second weekend of that month looking for us. 

I keep wondering how many tickets EU has managed to sell so far. Probably not a lot, although I could be wrong. We can help you more than you think, but you have to want that help you know. 

It's not looking good for that so far. The last thing I saw was Shutter making a ridiculous post about me regarding Bill Rataczak's cancellation, and EU...because he believed that baloney...calling me a ridiculous name. 

Get it together folks. You need our support a lot more than we need yours. That's because we're running the party event on our own, and any promotion we toss at the convention comes solely from being motivated to do so. If you continue to do these things I have mentioned, and you end up with a bunch of empty seats in November, you have only yourselves to blame. 

IfUStopTelling.jpg.9936021fbd02fd202bd8fb4b3522d32a.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)

From the DB Cooper Forum today:

Quote

'If a 94 year old man can comb the woods in the Pacific Northwest for Bigfoot even now, the guy who had hairs investigated by the FBI, why don't all of you on here get some damn metal detectors, set the at 2 foot depth, and GET OUT THERE!!!!!!!  Take a day from your conference and get out there and beat the woods where they suspected him to fall.  Go back to Tena Bar and get an army out there with metal detectors. Its better than head banging on here daily and not being able to get Tina or Florence to join you.  You need Mucklow.  She does not need you.  But I would think she would have some curiosity.  Get her a metal detector too!'

Robert99 responds:

Quote

"Great post!  The woods have been searched in the location(s) where the Powers That Be thought Cooper landed and they did not find one single thing."

AB of Seattle says: True enough, although supposedly Bill Rattie, who was in on the search as a young US Army Reservist, claimed that he found a very new dress shoe and turned it in to an officer. He told this to me and Gayla Prociv in 2000, long before we were involved in the Cooper case, or even formed Adventure Books. I had no reason to disbelieve him. He was a very straight-up kind of guy. He hasn't been on Facebook in years, but his page is HERE. 

Robert99, another comment:

Quote

'A limited area around the money location at Tena Bar has been searched with metal detectors and nothing was found there either.'

AB of Seattle says: That's because Cooper didn't land there. Or anywhere directly NORTH of that location. More from R99:

Quote

"But a larger search just upstream of the money location would definitely be worthwhile in my always humble opinion.  The total area to be searched is quite a bit less than one-half of a square mile.  There are some non-profit organizations that do such searches in connection with law enforcement activities.  These organizations also use equipment such as ground-penetrating radar.  Such equipment would be ideal for such a search.

Would you know of such an organization or anyone who would be interested in participating in such a search?"

AB of Seattle says: Of course there is. When AB proposed a five-day search using metal detectors in the same area where the placard was found, we had no lack of volunteers willing to show up with their fancy gear. However, since many people kept discouraging such a search, saying that the placard found by HIcks wasn't from Flight 305 anyway...we ended up canceling the search. NOTE: This property is gated, and on land owned by Weyerhauser Logging. You must get permission and obtain a key to the gates. We had that permission and access to the key, but canceling that search seemed like the better idea. About 25 people were going to show up with their metal detecting gear, some of it quite sophisticated, but I was reluctant to take all these people to a spot using inaccurate information. We knew where the placard was discovered within a thirty-foot radius...but we couldn't be sure the placard itself was valid. Basically, Flyjack and Shutter talked us out of it. I'm still not sure they were right. I still have two detectors in my closet and a pinpointer. I bought them specifically for the proposed search. The only place I even used them was doing a test run in my back yard. They still sit in the closet. ^_^ I probably would have garage saled them by now, except for the pandemic. 

Searching the area around Ariel could still be done, but much of it is either developed these days, or is now private property. And it is a BIG search area anyway. You would need HUNDREDS of metal detectors and months of planning and permissions to enter private property. A search at Tina Bar would be much more feasible, since you only have to get permission from the Fazios,' and it is a much more limited area. Ground-penetrating radar is nice, but it's heavy and expensive, and you probably wouldn't expect to find anything from the hijacking down that deep. Good metal detectors alone would most likely be enough for your purposes. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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(edited)
4 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Florence Schaffner said she saw Cooper putting on a back chute,,,

well before takeoff.

flobackchute.jpeg.e83ef61034ad08efecb1515f78d290a4.jpeg

 

What does this document 'say' to me?

  • Cooper had no particular destination. His intention, as I have theorized before, was to exit the aircraft and get on the ground as soon as possible. And before they reached Portland. I still believe his intention was to bail out over Washington state, hoping that the crew would not realize he was gone for some extended period...which would make a ground search impossible. PROBLEM: Cooper did not know there was an indicator on the Flight Engineer's panel showing when the door was opened. He probably didn't realize that there would be vibrations and other additional indicators telling the crew when he actually jumped. If Cooper made any mistakes or misjudgments at all, this was the only one.
     
  • One reason why Cooper may have called the cockpit right away was to ensure the crew were not bailing out using the rope ladder, in addition to checking on whether the fuel was being delivered as he demanded. 
     
  • Apparently, Cooper removed his sunglasses for at least a while after the plane landed in Seattle, and then put them back on later, if you believe Schaffner's account. In the Geoff Gray book, there is a mention that Schaffner was actually the only one who saw Cooper without his sunglasses. 
     
  • There is a discrepancy here about the putting-on-of-the-chute, since Tina Mucklow has said this was done after everyone had exited the aircraft, (maybe even after the takeoff from Seattle) and Schaffner says it was done on the ground in Seattle. How do you explain this? My answer is that BOTH accounts are probably correct. Cooper may have put on the chute, but just enough to hang it from his shoulders, until they took off. Then...afterward...he begins to secure it fully and pops the pink chute and starts cutting cord for the money bag. 
     
  • Schaffner claims in the document that Cooper was around six feet tall. But Tina, in a conflicting statement, says Cooper was five ten to six feet. And although this is not in the document either, painter Robert Gregory tells the Feds that Cooper wasn't that tall. "Not that tall," he says. "No more than five-nine."

I tend to believe Gregory's account more than the stews for a couple of reasons, and not necessarily because suspect Kenny Christiansen was five-nine. Here's one reason:  Flo Schaffner was interviewed by Geoff Gray, and exhibited extreme stress and fear even discussing the hijacker so many years later. Gray said her hands were shaking, and there are mentions that she was terrified of being killed by the bomb, or yes...even being raped by Cooper. At least that's what Gray says. If she was such an emotional wreck after all these years, it's easy to imagine how worse she was during the hijacking itself. 

The other reason I lean toward Gregory on the height question is because I have some small personal experience here. I found this out once on a flight between Seattle and San Diego. The MLB player for the Mariners, Bret Boone, was up in First Class and I was a couple of rows behind First Class in Coach. I saw him get up several times and I knew who he was since I was a big Mariners fan at the time. He even came into Coach and did meet-and-greet with a couple of people. I would have sworn on a stack of Bibles he was six feet or taller. After we landed, I bumped into him by accident at the luggage carousel. I was surprised to see he was shorter than me, seeing him for the first time out in the open. He is five ten. I am five eleven. I mean...it was a BIG surprise, too. Later, I theorized that it might be difficult to tell someone's true height inside the confines of an aircraft cabin, even if you see them several times, as opposed to standing next to them outside at say...a bus stop. This could explain the discrepancies by the witnesses on their height descriptions. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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Georger, over at the Cooper Forum, says this in part:

Quote

"Like every other suspect flipper, its obvious what EU is trying to do. EU is faced with dismissing his suspects' 'blue eyes' so EU's move is to claim nobody saw Cooper's eyes at all!  It's like Blevins' claim 'cabins of airplanes bounce light around so nothing appears normal - height, weight, eye color, even skin color' !  EU, R99, and RMB all use similar tactics..."

Excuse me, but I am not a 'suspect flipper'. Mostly I'm a sci-fi author, editor of more than 50 books for OTHER authors, housecleaner, and okay fisherman. The book on Christiansen, with some minor ups and downs, sells about the same number of copies each month and has done this since January 2011. I have no reason to make up things, or not explain myself as well as possible on any theories. It's not going to make me suddenly rich from additional book sales and their royalties. I was never in this for money or fame. I turned down two movie deals even though on the second one I was collecting four figures a year. The script sucked so I dumped them. I told the History Channel to KEEP their $2,500. Same thing with Comcast Sports Net for Adrenaline Hunter, but a lesser amount. I turned down a $25,000 offer from CBS Films years ago. They approached me through Paradigm, a rep company in New York. Why? They wanted to make the Cooper case into a comedy. 

So I guess I'm not here for fame or fortune. Money is not a problem for me, and I don't give a shit about fame. All that does is screw up your life and I'm a pretty private person. I would not fit in. I have other interests, and one of them is either helping people, or helping them get a little fun into their lives. 

Money is a means to an end only. Otherwise it means SHIT to me in my personal life. Other things I do are much more important, and far higher on the Richter Scale.

Why lie when the simple truth about people, events, and anything Cooper is good enough?

I also host events on Cooper, which (trust me) are a lot more fun than listening to people fight over points in the case. I have no particular axe to grind, and if I did, I hung up that axe a while ago. My participation in the Cooper case comes basically to an end after July 11 of this year. I have other plans for after that time, none of which involve Cooper directly. 

You guys as a group are about the most pitiful bunch I have ever seen. Maybe I should stop offering you my help, and laugh when you end up with less folks at that convention than we convinced to drive ten miles off-road for a big friggin' Cooper Party. Nothing has changed in Cooperland. Nothing. You wouldn't know a good thing if you saw it. As a group, you wouldn't know what is best to promote the idea of Cooper over the 50th anniversary, even if the Owner's Manual dropped into your laps. You are too busy fighting, jockeying for position, practicing exclusion, not standing up for what's right, and a host of other negatives too numerous to name. Unless things change, my opinion is that people would be wasting their money and time even considering attending a Cooper convention with such characters behind the wheel.

None of you have the common sense God gave a goat, with a couple of exceptions. 

B) You guys need to get your act together, or face failure in November. You heard it here first. 

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On 3/26/2021 at 9:02 AM, FLYJACK said:

The FBI files describe Cooper's eyes as : "dark eyes, possibly brown"

That doesn't mean possibly Sheridan blue.... IT MEANS DARK, DARK BROWN or BLACK.... 

Ulis keeps pushing the "possibly brown" as "possibly blue" Cooper's eyes were DARK.

 

darkeyes1.jpeg.be201987d68e4708b63f36368d1fd36f.jpeg

 

 

Ulis is still using the phrase "possibly brown" to claim it really means "possibly blue",, it doesn't.

Cooper's eyes were described as "dark"... brown or black. Black is actually a very dark brown. 

Sheridan was a 6' 1" balding, blue eyed left handed non smoker..  Sheridan was not latin in appearance, not swarthy, he did not have a wavy/curly/marceled full head of hair. He was 185-200 lbs and living in Nepal.. He does resemble the first sketch but not the more accurate sketch "B".

His image and speech has been widely publicized with no acknowledgement by witnesses.

Sheridan doesn't match Cooper at all. The case for Sheridan is weak to non existent.

 

So, why did the FBI take DNA for a such poor suspect? They also did other poor suspects..

Some of those suspects had advocates within the FBI.

Sheridan was anti Government, an expert skydiver, still alive and agreed to a test,, those factors probably drove their decision to test.

 

Eng pushed for testing LD Cooper,, a ridiculous suspect.

 

 

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"Special Agent Fred Gutt told Banse, in reference to the DNA taken from the necktie, "it's not a very good sample" and may not have been D.B. Cooper's DNA.

The FBI's Gutt provided more detail yesterday, telling the Associated Press that the failed DNA test is not definitive because agents can't be sure that the DNA on the tie came from D.B. Cooper."

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/08/09/139259039/d-b-cooper-update-fbi-says-no-dna-match-with-new-suspect

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7 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Ulis is still using the phrase "possibly brown" to claim it really means "possibly blue",, it doesn't.

Cooper's eyes were described as "dark"... brown or black. Black is actually a very dark brown. 

Sheridan was a 6' 1" balding, blue eyed left handed non smoker..  Sheridan was not latin in appearance, not swarthy, he did not have a wavy/curly/marceled full head of hair. He was 185-200 lbs and living in Nepal.. He does resemble the first sketch but not the more accurate sketch "B".

His image and speech has been widely publicized with no acknowledgement by witnesses.

Sheridan doesn't match Cooper at all. The case for Sheridan is weak to non existent.

 

So, why did the FBI take DNA for a such poor suspect? They also did other poor suspects..

Some of those suspects had advocates within the FBI.

Sheridan was anti Government, an expert skydiver, still alive and agreed to a test,, those factors probably drove their decision to test.

 

Eng pushed for testing LD Cooper,, a ridiculous suspect.

 

 

Do all the well known suspects have brown eyes?

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(edited)
2 hours ago, Para-DZ said:

Do all the well known suspects have brown eyes?

By "well known" if you mean high profile public ones.. Off the top of my head, I think they all have brown eyes except Sheridan Peterson but I haven't checked them all. McCoy might have blue eyes.. The FBI investigated around 1000 suspects and about 20 were not eliminated.

Unless the FBI had proven the whereabouts of a suspect during Norjak they eliminated suspects based on a subjective analysis of all factors..  the FBI didn't automatically eliminate on eye colour alone or even height alone unless it was way off.. but the FBI didn't solve this case.

 

"all witnesses have described UNSUB aka Cooper as having brown eyes"

"described as having a dark and swarthy complexion"

coopereyes.jpeg.571924fc2b473f7d80acb4539c8d5dbf.jpeg

 

 

 

Edited by FLYJACK

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Flyjack,

What do you know about the “small, brown hair” found on the towel on the headrest of Cooper’s seat. Andrade believes it was kept superglued to a glass square and would be virtually useless to test for DNA. Do you know anything about this? Where was it’s last known location? 

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20 minutes ago, Chaucer said:

Flyjack,

What do you know about the “small, brown hair” found on the towel on the headrest of Cooper’s seat. Andrade believes it was kept superglued to a glass square and would be virtually useless to test for DNA. Do you know anything about this? Where was it’s last known location? 

Last mentioned,, requested in 2002, that is when they wanted to do DNA.

Sent to LA lab in 1974,, in 2002 lab had no record.

Later in 2002 they found a hair sample. Possibly found it??

There was actually two hairs found on the plane, head and limb.

hairsample2002a.jpeg.9d4dd162184a00582217e5a3f869cdf2.jpeg

hairsample2002b.jpeg.6a7b0c509a81840423c60cb05dc6d4b6.jpeg

headhair3.jpeg.51945dfba4953a09943d4f558dee4f26.jpeg

 

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7 minutes ago, Chaucer said:

Damn. Would the FBI even share that info? Is it possible to do a FOIA request? I have a geneticist who is interested in doing a DNA test on it and conducting a forensic genealogy investigation. Would the FBI cooperate?

The only angle is to have the geneticist contact the FBI and ask,,, chances are very slim as the FBI doesn't seem interested in solving the case.

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1 hour ago, Chaucer said:

Damn. Would the FBI even share that info? Is it possible to do a FOIA request? I have a geneticist who is interested in doing a DNA test on it and conducting a forensic genealogy investigation. Would the FBI cooperate?

Let me answer your other question first. YES, there is a person (at least at the Seattle office) who is still getting all the 'stuff' coming in regarding Cooper. On a national level, at the main HQ in DC, I'm pretty sure no one is assigned. (The reason they still have a guy in Seattle they dump the Cooper stuff on is because the announcement they were closing the case did not stop people from continuing to send in their tips.)  

However...unlike previous times...the Seattle FBI is not saying who this unlucky ¬¬ agent is. They will tell you it was forwarded to him or her, but no name. 

On the DNA test your friend wants to do:

You would almost have to do an FOIA request and see if they would be willing to release the full results of the partial DNA profile. Or profiles. I have a carefully stored DNA sample from Lyle Christiansen, the brother of suspect Kenny Christiansen. And I tried a few times to get them to release these results, but it was always no. But understand something here:

I am NOT an expert on DNA. No way, no shape, no how. What I know about it I learned from TV commercials. BUT>>>>>I was told in 2013 that the test the FBI had to use to do the comparison between a suspect's full DNA profile...and the partial sample...was very expensive and the FBI decided that they didn't have the budget to do any further tests unless some really hard evidence came in to them making it worth it to do the test. And this was back when the case was still open. In 2013, I contacted ArcPoint Labs in Renton, WA and showed them what Agent Gutt said about such a comparison test being expensive. I told them what the FBI had for a sample, what it could allegedly show, and where they got the sample. Basically....I asked them if everything the Seattle FBI said was true about all of this. 

ArcPoint's head honcho actually called me and I explained everything as best I could. He was interested because he had heard of Cooper, etc. He said YES....it was expensive to do such tests and get solid results, that the FBI was correct in what they said, and that the cost would be around $10,000 or a bit more. He said such testing is much more complicated to get results. Well, at that point I sort of gave up. Sure, I could have paid for the test...but I was unwilling to fork out that much cash to do it, plus...no one has the FBI's results anyway...making the whole thing moot until they do release them. 

EDIT: About the hairs-on-the-slides thing>>> I suppose they could have used super glue, but I have heard that most often they just put that kind of evidence in between two slides and store it that way. I don't know...maybe today they use super glue. The more common use of super glue for evidentiary work is to heat it into a gas and sort of shoot it in the direction of where you believe a non-visible fingerprint will be on an object. The glue bonds to the oils left behind by the faint print, revealing the full print for you in much greater detail. Then you can photograph it. 

Edited by RobertMBlevins

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