DB Cooper

[Robert99 37]

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Thanks again, Robert99!
This rubber band thing has always been a sticking point to me. Maybe the money was also paper banded by the bank, but then you have glue decomposition on those bands. Someone put the money in the river intentionally is my best guess. 40 years is a long time to find nothing, with half the world and the FBI looking for anything remotely resembling a clue. I suppose if, by this time, Cooper has passed on, he is thumbing his nose at J. Edgar Hoover every chance he gets!

I didn't read all of this thread...it is pretty long. I suppose it could be culled down to about 100 pages easily enough to be the Readers Digest version.

Pek771, I believe some people on this thread have checked into the rubber bands verus paper bands and that the bank that prepared the money always claimed that no paper bands were used. It was all rubber bands and the money itself had been part of a fund that the bank had previously prepared for just such an event.

Personally, I don't follow the logic of throwing money into the river as a distraction. Unless, of course, the FBI is about 50 feet behind you and gaining fast.

[EVickiW 0]

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Vicki I want to ask you about this above. Normally
you would prefer to have dna directly from the
subject, but if not available you resort to a close
relative, as in the example below. Did anyone offer
an explanation for your statement above? ?

http://www.stevenrinehart.com/uploads/LarryCarrInterview.mp3

At 30:50 in this interview with Larry Carr...........He speaks of the DNA sample and familial testing.

Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

[377 21]

Farflung wrote:

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Cooper wanting that gear down as proof he knew aircraft. Well all the photos I’ve seen of DC-9s and 727s with Cooper minions diving out the back have the gear up. Same for military and skydiving operations except for those who fly things made by Shorts or Cessna.

Cooper might have expected a hostile cockpit crew, and he was right. But for some cool heads at NWA HQ Cooper might have exited over the Pacific Ocean.

By demanding gear down and some flaps that assured he wouldn't be snookered into a .8 Mach exit. They might inch the flaps up without him noticing but a gear retraction in a 727 makes a fair amount of noise. The gear down demand, to me, is more likely smart than dumb.

I liked your last poster Farflung, but no hot nun stew. You are either slipping or reforming.

From your last post I am wondering if you reside in Livermore. That's where I made my first jump in 68. They used to have a decent airshow there. The highlight for me was when a long derelict B 29 bomber from Oakland flew in. The owner, according to rumor, was offered $5000 if the plane showed up. Amazingly it did. It was leaking more fluids than ANY plane I've ever seen, and as an old jumper I've seen some pretty porous prop jobs. They topped off everything before departing. I think if they ran into headwinds flying the 20 miles back to OAK they would have run out of hydraulic fluid. Kermit Weeks bought it, hired a crew to do a local test flight and wisely decided to dismantle it and truck it to his museum in Florida.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[ExBlue 0]

After having spent all of three days here, allow me to offer some unsolicited advice.

While I understand that the idea of taking this thread information and creating another user group has been presented and rejected, I believe that idea should be revisited.

To put it bluntly, people like 377, Orange1, EVickiW, the exiled Snowmman and a few other halfway lucid individuals, some of whom have PM'd me, should pull chocks and secede from this disjointed union.

You can take this thread, clean up the massive amount of redundant questions, idiotic feuds and conspiracy theories and start a new clan. Granted, many of the invitees may not get along but in a more controlled setting, this animosity might be somewhat alleviated.

Essentially, what I see is a unique group of posters with serious analytical skills and solid research methods who would like to have academic level discussions--but not always--about this case. There is some great information here.

Or, this sane and normal aforementioned group can stay here, be pounded by the feuds, outlandish theories and redundancy but neither generate nor seek new and fresh ideas. I suppose there is no harm in that but I sense some here would like to splinter and create a more structured setting.

I'm in the middle and would not want to join a new group; I wanted to see what was here and ask a few questions but then sit back and absorb rational information put forth by the more learned among me. As it stands now, this thread has genius and dimwitted all rolled into one and for FNG's like me, that makes it no fun.

Thanks

[longtimelurker 0]

Does your evidence look anything like this Mr B ? Ive blacked out the PCGS # for obvious reasons.
It's worthwhile posting this as it may serve to remind members what kind of condition those notes were in.A lot of talk about rubber bands can give newbs the impression of freshly stacked neat $20's , as we see that wasn't remotely the case.
Note the many holes within and consider what could have bored through a wad of $20's like that , a creature for sure but was it land or waterborne ? My money (if you'll excuse the pun) is on waterborne.

[smokin99 0]

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The speed at which the FBI attacked the DNA question is uncharacteristic.

377

My point exactly. In the space of like a week FBI agents have been quoted who reportedly state: we have "a promising lead" though we've not fully vetted the lead or the source, we've got an object - we're gonna try to get prints, no fingerprints can be obtained from the item so we are looking for another item that belonged to the "suspect", now, suddenly, we've already performed the DNA tests and the results of that was a bust. Oh and btw....this whole DNA thing might not even be Cooper's.

Sounds like maybe somebody put the cart before the horse with this whole media blitz?? Just saying...sounding kinda hinky to me.

Quit flexing, Farflung..I said hinky, not hunky.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[smokin99 0]

Geoff Gray's latest. Interesting take on the subject

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/opinion/sunday/the-enigma-of-db-cooper.html

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[airtwardo 6]

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After having spent all of three days here, allow me to offer some unsolicited advice.

While I understand that the idea of taking this thread information and creating another user group has been presented and rejected, I believe that idea should be revisited.

To put it bluntly, people like 377, Orange1, EVickiW, the exiled Snowmman and a few other halfway lucid individuals, some of whom have PM'd me, should pull chocks and secede from this disjointed union.

You can take this thread, clean up the massive amount of redundant questions, idiotic feuds and conspiracy theories and start a new clan. Granted, many of the invitees may not get along but in a more controlled setting, this animosity might be somewhat alleviated.

Essentially, what I see is a unique group of posters with serious analytical skills and solid research methods who would like to have academic level discussions--but not always--about this case. There is some great information here.

Or, this sane and normal aforementioned group can stay here, be pounded by the feuds, outlandish theories and redundancy but neither generate nor seek new and fresh ideas. I suppose there is no harm in that but I sense some here would like to splinter and create a more structured setting.

I'm in the middle and would not want to join a new group; I wanted to see what was here and ask a few questions but then sit back and absorb rational information put forth by the more learned among me. As it stands now, this thread has genius and dimwitted all rolled into one and for FNG's like me, that makes it no fun.

Thanks

Dead Center!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Mr.Green 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anlowy5fyPg&feature=related

[Orange1 0]

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Geoff Gray's latest. Interesting take on the subject

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/opinion/sunday/the-enigma-of-db-cooper.html

Where do these guys learn to write?? "Plunged into the forests of the Pacific Northwest like a golfball on a soggy fairway"?!!

Dodgy prose aside, thought the article pretty decent.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Mr.Green 0]

Trying to sell books...........

[longtimelurker 0]

That particular piece of evidence won't get anyone on TV Mr B , that and many like it along with many fragments were auctioned publicly on Heritage.com to the highest bidders.I understand if you had a piece that was not encapsulated by PCGS and therefore a matter of public record then Yep , that might get you on the box.

ExBlue , i had a think about what you said , yes i seen it had been brought up before and im sure Quade and other Mods and members have put up with a lot over the years.Its a double edge sword though , Yes this might well be the most informative thread concerning certain aspects of the incident, i for one don't believe Mr Carr was here to read this thread exclusively though as other technical skyjumping threads hold extremely good and sound information.
I think what i'm trying to say without sounding like it's anything to do with me but i think most people recoqnise DZ.Com is the source of a lot of the new information and having said what i said before about mod's putting up with the thread for years,why would anyone want to pull the carpet out from under DZ.Com's thread ? If the inclined wanted a seperate group wouldn't you think they established that long ago ?Just my 2c

[Orange1 0]

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Trying to sell books...........

I'm not buying any books if that is a sample of the writing, no matter how good the underlying story might be!!

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 197]

(NOTE: If this was his plan, it worked. The FBI changed their position on the hijacking after the money was found. They started saying they think he died.)
.

[smokin99 0]

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Geoff Gray's latest. Interesting take on the subject

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/opinion/sunday/the-enigma-of-db-cooper.html

Where do these guys learn to write?? "Plunged into the forests of the Pacific Northwest like a golfball on a soggy fairway"?!!

Dodgy prose aside, thought the article pretty decent.

LOL.....At least he didn't start with "It was a dark and stormy night"



The Bulwer-Lytton Fiction Contest
Where “WWW” means “Wretched Writers Welcome”
http://www.bulwer-lytton.com/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"It was a dark and stormy night; the rain fell in torrents--except at occasional intervals, when it was checked by a violent gust of wind which swept up the streets (for it is in London that our scene lies), rattling along the housetops, and fiercely agitating the scanty flame of the lamps that struggled against the darkness."

--Edward George Bulwer-Lytton, Paul Clifford (1830)

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[georger 197]

To put it bluntly, people like 377, Orange1, EVickiW, the exiled Snowmman and a few other halfway lucid individuals, some of whom have PM'd me, should pull chocks and secede from this disjointed union.
Dead Center!

Nail on head! Blevins will be there.

[longtimelurker 0]

[longtimelurker 0]

In it's written context the golf ball comment was amusing , i find it difficult that this was ever said though and appears to be a quote from the time.

“If he took the trouble to plan this thing out so thoroughly, well, good luck to him,” one local sheriff said."

[BruceSmith 3]

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Geoff Gray's latest. Interesting take on the subject

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/opinion/sunday/the-enigma-of-db-cooper.html

Where do these guys learn to write?? "Plunged into the forests of the Pacific Northwest like a golfball on a soggy fairway"?!!

Dodgy prose aside, thought the article pretty decent.

Providing these links is one of the stellar functions of the DZ.

As for Geoff, I just realized that he has never posted here as far as I know. I find that remarkable, and sad. The guy really doesn't share, does he.

As for his writing, I think it's fine. Danny B as a golfball I think is a sweet metaphor - something original, and it certainly plays to the upper-middle-class sensibilties of the NY Times readership on a Sunday.

But Gawd, the orchestration of his book's roll out is remarkable: a piece in the NY Times the Sunday before release; the FBI stirring up a hoopla the week before and the resulting international media orgy, and getting Alex on board with the young PIO from Seattle and her "most promising" announcement of a most mundane finding.

Lastly, Geoff says Danny Boy is bye-bye, yet he provides no proof or compelling argument.

There is a game afoot, here.

[Farflung 0]

I’m always shocked to read how someone manages to eliminate their DNA from the gene pool by getting hit by a train. Of all the vehicles I fear least it is in fact the one that has to travel on a pair of steel rails that I can fall far enough from in a flat foot stance to escape. That’s not to mention the additional handicap the train has with retina scorching lights which modulate and air horns which exceed 125 decibels as fair warning. What on earth is going on?

Apparently there is a condition that people develop called a scotoma which is a sort of blind spot. You pull up to the tracks that have been empty for the last few years, look, then pull into the path of a speeding locomotive. Weird I know.

Sure is lucky that Cooper research doesn’t have any trains which a scotoma might isolate and eliminate. Yep, I know soooooo much about this case that you can’t pass any bum data around me. Yeah, I’m that good.

[G_Jones 0]

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G_Jones writes:

So you are suggesting that the information could have been removed for the specific purpose of hiding the location of the plane during that time?

Robert99 replies:

No, I am not suggesting. I'm stating that in plain language.

Maybe I am missing the obvious, but what could be a reason for withholding that particular information? Perhaps to obscure the fact that they initially searched the wrong areas?

[skyjack71 0]

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Georger has checked into the rubber bank question, if I remember correctly, and maybe he will elaborate on that. But based on my personal experience, I have had similar rubber bands that didn't last 8 years in my closet. And my guess is that the rubber bands and the money were not in the water for anywhere close to 8 years, maybe a few months.

I have told you guys that for yrs and yrs and I did my own experiments before I even went public. Those rubber bands were only in that water for about 6 months. This was also the opinion of Palmer - I believe he said less than a yr.

The only soid that I had around that would resemble the soil in WA was the soil around my azaleas. I did one in dirt that was sheltered. Another one in dirt I kept wet on my deck.
I also mixed the soil and water and put it under my kitchen sink and one of just plain water.

My back deck was shaded - it is humid here like it is in WA. I told about these result on this thread so I won't repeat them.
Just want you to know. Frankly right now without going back to the note I forgot what each one did - I kept these containers for over a yr...checking the rubber band every couple of months.

The muddy wet one was very brittle, faded and crumbled after a yr. I used old rubber bands around the house - so they were NOT new rubber bands, but all the same size and probably out of the same package.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 37]

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G_Jones writes:

So you are suggesting that the information could have been removed for the specific purpose of hiding the location of the plane during that time?

Robert99 replies:

No, I am not suggesting. I'm stating that in plain language.

Maybe I am missing the obvious, but what could be a reason for withholding that particular information? Perhaps to obscure the fact that they initially searched the wrong areas?

I am not aware of any valid reason for withholding that information. An invalid reason would be to save face for getting things wrong immediately after the hijacking.

But to ask for public assistance in finding Cooper, while at the same time hiding the information that is necessary to find him, is an exercise in futility.

[hangdiver 1]

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Sorry the skydiver in me made me make this post on page 1000 of...

yeah and now you owe beer for your first post in a 1000 page thread

I believe no one mentioned the [B]F[/B] word but you dude...I go to the judges...
I think you owe beer!
I want a jury of my peers...real peers...

help me 377...

I leave for a week to steal money from old ladies try and start a new business and this place goes fucking nuts...must be a real dropzone...

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Um, don't forget that the obligatory demand that the FBI has to prove your dad wasn't Cooper....

I'm still holding my breath Orange1...

okay I'll catch up later...I've got three windows opened to DZ and only on page...ahh...1005...
gotta go...there's ahh...work to do...

hangdiver

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[skyjack71 0]

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While I understand that the idea of taking this thread information and creating another user group has been presented and rejected, I believe that idea should be revisited.

To put it bluntly, people like 377, Orange1, EVickiW, the exiled Snowmman and a few other halfway lucid individuals, some of whom have PM'd me, should pull chocks and secede from this disjointed union.

Please Mr. ExBlue make it known that Jo Weber has NEVER PM'ed you.

Had I not presented Weber this thread would never have existed and no explorations of the whys and hows would ever have existed on the level which it has.

You are aware that I am the ONLY person to come forward who ever put the money on the river and on the river bank in the time span that the FBI and Mr. Palmer determined it arrived there.

I told the FBI about the places Duane took me along the river - but, JT made sure this became convoluted. Not having a map of the area - all I could do was describe the places to JT who Mr. H. put me in contact with as the man on the ground.

I would learn many yrs later the places he kept telling me I was at were NOT the places at all. I did physically find one of the places in 2001 and most of the others in 2010.

He kept trying to convince me that Duane turned me around and he also insisted that Duane and I went to Vancouver by going along the S side of the River to Portland and I was adamant that NO we crossed the river somewhere before Washougal and we were on the N. side on Hwy 14. After acquiring maps I was able to dispute what JT said. Even my little map (drawn from memory) in 1997 to Mr. H. indicates this.

I unknowingly without any knowledge of where Tena's bar was in 1996 put the money on the Columbia as we headed home and then he makes a sudden decision to go to Tahoe The trip Duane and I made to WA was in 1979 around the end of Sept.

After leaving Seattle we went to Vancouver and he made 4 stops on the Northside - one East of Winterly Park and then East to a Large Green tank on the river and one West of I-5 - and then we went to the Red Lion on the river. I do not need to repeat what he did there- as the story is very old.

So unknowingly a woman who had only been to WA that one time in her life inadvertantly put the money on The Columbia within the correct time frame.

Having only read 1/3 of a book of mostly fiction I was on the phone to the FBI - I had NO idea where Tena's bar was. I had no idea that the money was only in the water for about a yr...on that night of MAY in 1996 when I made a frantic call to the FBI. I knew NOTHING, but what Duane showed me and what I held in my hands and what he told me.

This is the Truth and if the FBI took notes or recorded the conversation they could never deny what I have just said.

I had NO idea what I had done until it was discussed in this thread - No one had ever told me the money had not been in the water for 7 or 8 yrs. Learning that made all the stops Duane made make sense and why he immediately left CO and penned his resignation the DAY after the article about the money find appeared in the newpaper.

We were making good money and there WAS no need to leave the area. I had just gone to work for a Real Estate office and my daughter's Birthday and Graduation was coming up and her Prom. Duane left us in CO and only came back for my daughters graduation.

Oh, well everyone has heard this story before - I give up - NO ONE will ever listen. I am just a tree falling in the forest and I am sorry you think I am not worthy.
This thread would never have existed if I had not been seeking facts and trying to explore what really happened.

The truth about Cooper will forever remain buried...and that is very very sad. I am not trying to sell a book or a movie - all I want is the truth.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber