Snowflake 0 #1 May 14, 2002 The situation I demoed a Cobalt 150 a few weeks ago and really loved it. I had the chance to demo a 135 but didn't because I thought it may be to much for me and I knew I would love it. Well some how a mistake was made and there is a brand new 135 in my colors at the DZ. The long and skinny is that I ended up jumping a 135 and the performance in terms of being ground hungry in turns is what I expected out of the 150. I was able to sink it and land where I wanted and I stood it up (the wind was around 18 so thats no big deal). My question is if I jump this 135 and can land it downwind in light 6-10MPH wind and put it within 5-10 meters of my target am I bitting of more then I can chew?the stats 130 jumps 1 on a Cobalt 135, 10 on a Cobalt 150, 60-70 on a Spectre 170, 7 on a PD 150, 12 on a Triathalon 160, the rest mostly on a Falcon 195.I'm 205-210 out the door that would put me at 1.5:1 under the 135.My plan would be to jump the 135 on a light wind day and at the end of the day land a few downwinders, if I can't stand it up then go with the 150 (I know I can land it downwind) if I can stand it up 3 times then I consider going with the 135. am I being stupid to even consider this? I by no means consider myself a 100 jump wonder and the fact that I'm writing this probably means I'll get the 150 but a little reinforcment never hurtsJG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #2 May 14, 2002 *Conservatism alert!*Can you put the 135 into a small backyard in no wind? For me that's the real test - if you aren't confident you can safely land that canopy anyplace you might have to land it (think worst case scenario) in no wind conditions - it's too small for you right now.And that's not even getting into the other things to consider before going to that wingloading... pull & flare,lisaIf I can't have everything, well, then just give me a taste... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,421 #3 May 14, 2002 The critical part of your post seems to be here:>I demoed a Cobalt 150 a few weeks ago and really loved it. If you jumped the 150 and loved it, and it will land you well under all conditions, then go for it. There's no reason to downsize if you like the canopy you have (or the canopy you demoed) and there are many reasons to _not_ downsize.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #4 May 14, 2002 The disadvantage to jumping too small a canopy is that it will be ahead of your brain for hundreds of jumps. You will be too scared to practice all of the canopy control exercises you need to stay alive on bad days.Tell the factory that you are returning the 135 and want a 150 in your favorite colours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflake 0 #5 May 14, 2002 Lisa that was kind of my point if I can land it with in 5-10 meters of my target downwind 3 times in a row, should I consider getting it. I want to know that I can land it downwind and be close to target IF I'm gonna take a step like thatJG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflake 0 #6 May 14, 2002 Ok I left out some info I'm currently jumping a Spectre 170. The mistake was on someone elses canopy. I made the mistake of looking at it (I'm such a sucker for 'shiny things' especially if they happen to match my gear exactly) until that point I was content with the thought of a 150. Let me also add that I appreciate you people giving me a reality check.PS the thought of the argument this would have been if I was in my 20's is cracking me upJG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albatross 0 #7 May 14, 2002 O.K. I am bearking out the I FUCKED UP story. You can and will take from it what you want. I now have 380+ jumps 340+ of which are on the same SPECTRE 170. I am loading it at about 1.1:1. This is clearly a conservative canopy. The design is very square and lightly loaded for someone with my exerience. I can land this canopy with in 10 ft on a swoop, harness turn, sink it in and have had like 2 or 3 less than great landings on it. Bottom line is that I fly this canopy well and know it inside and out. 2-weeks ago I was making the same set up in the same place at the same altitude as I hae for 75+ jumps and for 5 that day. I hit some unseen turbulence and hit HARD. I PLFed and rolled out of it. I walked away bruised and sore but not broken. I have sprained ankles and am very sore even 10 days later. I made one oversight, I didn't anticipate the turbulence. Other than that the 90 riser turn was just the same. Had I been on the Cobolt 135 right now I would likely be in the hospital or dead, just like the 200 jump guy who was flying the eliptical 139. Stay bigger and learn to milk the canopy for all the preformance that you can don't go small to be cool or because you want better preformance NOW. Remember that a good pilot can get a good swoop and lots of speed from a 90 on a conservative canopy and use the FX or VX because they can do these things on bigger and square mains.Please focus on your skills to improve the preformance and not on the canopy. I only can be thankful that I had this thought process in large part due to Lisa, Bill and some others here. You guys and your wisdom quite possibly saved my body or life.God bless us and God Bless AmericaAlbatross Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SniperCJ 0 #8 May 14, 2002 Ya, what they said!Also, look at your history. 3 conservative canopies in a row (Falcon, Tri, Spectre) followed by a high performance elliptical at 130 total jumps. Thats a statistic in the making.If youre dead set on the Cobalt, at least go with the 150. When it bites you, it wont bite you as hard as the 135 and you may survive.JC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #9 May 14, 2002 Hey, Snow...Quote(I'm such a sucker for 'shiny things' )Yeah, me too. See a quarter on the ground, I gotta pick it up...even if I'm in a really short skirt...But I'm also a sucker for two whole legs, and breathing without assistence, too...Look, the smaller canopy will be there later. Why not just jump the 150 for a few hundred jumps; and then downsize? They won't be taking the smaller canopy away; this will not be your only chance to buy one (and I'll bet it'll be new and shiny then, too!). Patience, it would seem, can be a great factor in remaining in this sport. Just my .02, though. Take it for what it's worth...Ciels and Pinks-MicheleIf you really want to, you can seize the day; if you really want to, you can fly away...~enya~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #10 May 14, 2002 I agree with Lisa on this. Be conservative. Here's a good test that I think is pretty realistic. If you feel like you have to ask others if you're ready for a canopy, you're probably not. I think this is probably true in > 95% of the cases we see here at dz.com.Stick with the 150 or even your Spectre at this point.-Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rapper4mpi 0 #11 May 14, 2002 I knew I could not resist giving my two cents. I think you are asking for trouble by even going with the 150. That would still put you at a wing loading of 1.4 which is considered appropriate for experienced/aggressive pilots. At 130 jumps with the majority on a Spectre 170, I know you would be quite happy on the Cobalt 170, and this would put you in a fun wingloading of 1.2I'm sure it is easy to discard my opinion, but coming from an instructor, you should at least consider buying a used semi-elliptical 170, putting another 130-150 jumps on it, then go for the new 150. Good luck!-Rap Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hobbes4star 0 #12 May 14, 2002 ___________________________________________________Lisa that was kind of my point if I can land it with in 5-10 meters of my target downwind 3 times in a row, should I consider getting it. I want to know that I can land it downwind and be close to target IF I'm gonna take a step like that___________________________________________________i think that if you feel confortable in the 150 i would go for that you can always downsize. you can't come back to life. why jump when you can fly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #13 May 14, 2002 Hey Snowie, are you really suggesting that you make a canopy choice based on availability of your 'colours' ....C'mon think about this, is it a good idea? Nah, I'm sure nobody here wants to see you hurt. Don't be hypnotised by the shiney thing.....or let yourself be seduced by its availability.I might see you at the weekend @San Marcos, and we can chat over this further......Either way, we'll have a beer and a laugh.CyaD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #14 May 14, 2002 Your profile says you have 130 jumps. If this is correct, I can't imagine how you would have nearly enough experience to handle an eliptical canopy at a 1.5 wingloading. I would STRONGLY recomend that you hold off on the 130, stick to the 150._AmICQ: 5578907MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com AIM: andrewdmetcalfeYahoo IM: ametcalf_1999 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #15 May 14, 2002 hi jg,i am also going to recommend that you consider the 150.at 130 jumps you are still basically a begineer. as a general guideline for a cobalt that would put you in a recommended wingloading below 1.4given that most of your current experience is on a 170 spectra, i think the 150 cobalt would be the right choice for you over the 135.sincerely,danatairwww.extremefly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #16 May 14, 2002 I'm agreeing with Dan here... I've seen you jump and while that down winder was impressive... I think you'd be damn lucky to do it under a 135 again . I went from a 170 Spectre at just under 1:1 to my Cobalt 150 at 1.2:1 at about 175 jumps (Winter pounds... honestly!) As I happened to find out a few weekends ago... a Lightly loaded canopy (1.2:1) can still get a 50-75 feet in a swoop on a hot no wind day with out having to hook hard. My discovery cost me a lot of pride and a patch on my canopy. Learn on the big ones... play later on the pocket toys.. And besides, in another 200-250 jumps or so, I might buy that 135 from you If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carbonezone 0 #17 May 16, 2002 <<>>Snowflake.....to be quite blunt...a bright and shiny new thing is not what will land you safe and sound. The question here "COULD BE" do they make Bright and Shiny Body Casts??? Think wisely when your making these decisions "your life and lively hood depends on it"."Your Skydive is NOT over until you have landed" Blues,TamiScotty -n- Tami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
