Michele 1 #1 April 27, 2003 I am considering getting a reserve. It's the SMART one, and I am not so smart when it comes to these things. Yes, I have read the posts about them, but it still leaves me undecided... Here are my concerns. 1. They are new. I don't really want to put something in as my last option which hasn't been fully tested. I guess I don't want to be a test dummy...who has jumped one? And what has been your experience (yes, I realize this is likely not a real-time experience as they are new on the market, but still...)? 2. Please explain the difference between Type 1 and Type 3. I don't understand either one at all, just that one isn't as reliable as the other. 3. Would you put your newbie sister/wife/girlfriend on one? Why/Why not? 4. Who has bought one, and why? Who has considered it, and chosen to not buy it? Why? The benefit is simply price. At the moment, there is a good sale going on, and with my incredibly tight budget, this reserve has been recommended to me because of price and reputation of the company. I really would appreciate any information, opinion, and caution/encouragement. This is a huge deal to me...and I don't quite know what I'm doing (as with anything skydiving...). Thanks in advance... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #2 April 27, 2003 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=447139#447139 Michele- I ran a quick forum search...lots of results and good info. Personally I prefer 'Strong" reserves! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #3 April 27, 2003 Hi, Jim... Thanks for the link. I read that one, and because I am so new, I don't understand it. I did read through most of the threads, but still have concerns. Why do you prefer STRONG? (and the wink would indicated a joke, but I don't get it...sorry, I really am dense...) Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #4 April 27, 2003 I like Strong because I'm getting to be and old conservitave guy...House, Kids, Dogs, old injuries...you know...OLD! I've known Ted Strong for quite some time and his general philosophy is to 'over build' everything in anticipation of it being mis-used...I've found his gear to be somewhat more docile than many others...which is what I want in a reserve...it may have to land itself so to speak, and it doesn't make sence to me at this point in my life to take a chance of getting re-smaked because of no steering input. There was just a post in incendents about that. I do a lot of demos and tend to overload my gear a bit. I've blown up a few canopies...granted my fault, but have NEVER had even a slight problem with Strong's stuff...again,over designed. That company has been around for like 40 years, they'll be here next year...not always the case with others. I always get great service from them...both on my sport stuff, Tandem stuff, and custom stuff I've designed and had them build. I don't buy new cars on their first model year run, seems there are always bugs to work out...same with parachutes...I'm always a bit behind what's hot & new, but my stuff has proven to be safe and lasts a while, which is what concerns me most these days. I still remember the old "green star express" rig that was THE hot item 20some years ago...a design flaw caused the reserves to tear away now and then...new isn't ALWAYS better.... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #5 April 27, 2003 If it's about price, I bet you can find a used Performance Designs reserve for about that same amount. On the other hand, I wouldn't hesitate to jump a Smart reserve. If it's a good deal, you should go for it. It's all TSO'd and FAA-approved. Skydiving is for cool people only Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #6 April 27, 2003 Quote If it's about price, I bet you can find a used Performance Designs reserve for about that same amount. On the other hand, I wouldn't hesitate to jump a Smart reserve. If it's a good deal, you should go for it. It's all TSO'd and FAA-approved. And therein lies the difficulty.... Thanks for stating it as simply as that. There's a reason I need an editor...Thanks, Jim. All of your concerns are why I am still on the fence, with the exception of house and children...I'm old, I hurt sometimes, and while it won't be nearly overloaded, first run stuff is still a concern for me. Sigh... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,476 #7 April 28, 2003 >I've blown up a few canopies...granted my fault, but have NEVER had >even a slight problem with Strong's stuff... Three of my five mals have been on Strong mains, and the only reserve mal I've ever seen was on a Strong reserve. (No serious injuries fortunately.) All four mals were on tandem equipment, and that's not the same as sport equipment in terms of loading and usage patterns, so that doesn't imply that his sport-jumper reserves are bad. Just a data point to consider. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garyharbird 0 #8 April 28, 2003 Hi I don't know much about Stong reserves or canopies. I am a PD man I have 2 106R and 2 velocity 84s. I go for PD because the put the most research and testing in to there canopies. Go to deland and there are multiple people test jumping for PD, all of the time. So I would recommend a PD reserve, if you can't afford a new one, there are plenty of second hand ones going around. Gary Harbird Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raefordite 0 #9 April 28, 2003 Michele: The Smart reserve is a very good reserve. It used to be the Tempo by PISA. PISA company was purchased by Aerodyne. Aerodyne completed new drop tests, etc. to meet FAA regulations for the new sizes now offered. However - the consumer response has been overwhelming for Aerodyne. Orders are a wee bit backed up. But the company is doing their best to catch up with the demand. http://www.aerodyne-int.com/sport/default.asp[url] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #10 April 28, 2003 I know a lot of people that love their Tempo reserves. Glen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canopywhore 0 #11 April 28, 2003 My only reserve ride has been on a Tempo 150. It treated me to a soft opening and a tiptoe landing. I bought my girlfriend one for her rig. I admit that price was probably what influenced my decision. I didn't buy a Strong reserve because they were having the recall issue. I have heard good things about all of them. I wouldn't be afraid of jumping any of them. I've never heard anybody complain about the performance of a PD reserve(except for price). In case you didn't know, you can demo reserves to try them out as mains to see if you like them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #12 April 28, 2003 Quote>I've blown up a few canopies...granted my fault, but have NEVER had >even a slight problem with Strong's stuff... Three of my five mals have been on Strong mains, and the only reserve mal I've ever seen was on a Strong reserve. (No serious injuries fortunately.) All four mals were on tandem equipment, and that's not the same as sport equipment in terms of loading and usage patterns, so that doesn't imply that his sport-jumper reserves are bad. Just a data point to consider. ***I've have a couple of main tandem mals as well, but they were caused by packing errors and not material failure or design flaw... 8 rides on strongs sport reserves (so far) and no problems. I've had PD mains and a reserve too. Also great quality...but I have developed a relationship over the years with the people at Strong Ent. I have several rigs and cost of the equiptment is also a factor I consider when going with Ted's stuff. It's all personal choice...that's why they don't just paint cars black anymore. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clownburner 0 #13 April 28, 2003 Michele, I've recently gone through the same thought process, so perhaps explaining my decision will help you. I'm a big fan of new technology in general and am usually the one to always want the newest shiniest toy. I thought long and hard about the reserve question, asked around on these forums, and spoke to some people at the DZ whom I respect. I think Aerodyne is a good, reputable company that will do everything they can to make sure they are producing a safe and reliable product. I even bought a Triathlon for my first main, so I obviously like them, and the customer service I've had from emailing them has been superb - they even offered to perform all the current upgrades on the canopy for only the cost of shipping. However, I decided on the PD Reserve; I found a used one (2 jumps and about 10 packs) that I bought. When it comes to parachutes, I'm not a test pilot - and I don't want to be, at least not for the next 1000 jumps or so, if ever. This is doubly true of a reserve canopy, which is obviously your last chance all-or-nothing canopy. I even liked the idea of a reserve that's been used once or twice - at least you know it's worked once before. You could perhaps talk to the folks at Aerodyne and see if they'll provide a Smart hooked up with standard attachment points so you could demo it as a main, but my feeling is that until it's been in the field for a few years and has some saves under random and less-then-ideal conditions, I'll take a pass, for now. I like what they say about it and will certainly be keeping a close eye on it, perhaps in a couple years when I want a new/smaller reserve I'll be more comfortable with it, but in the meantime, I'll stick with what works in the field. I'm not sure what size reserve you're looking for, but Square1 often has reserves for sale from their demo rigs in larger sizes and they're usually the same (or a little cheaper) than what the Smart goes for; you might try calling them - that's where I got mine. Hope that helps, and good luck! PS: Won't get to see you next weekend as I'll be out-of-town, but FYI the 240 was no problem.7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez "I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #14 April 28, 2003 Thanks, Clownburner....I really appreciate your thought processes detailed like that. It parallels some of my concerns. Quote Won't get to see you next weekend as I'll be out-of-town, but FYI the 240 was no problem. Pity you can't come play on my birthday....but (and you knew this was coming)...."told ya so" about the 240.... And I understand your concerns about that, too....better than you'd realize. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 563 #15 April 28, 2003 Quote I am considering getting a reserve. It's the SMART one, and I am not so smart when it comes to these things. Yes, I have read the posts about them, but it still leaves me undecided... Here are my concerns. 1. They are new. I don't really want to put something in as my last option which hasn't been fully tested. I guess I don't want to be a test dummy...who has jumped one? And what has been your experience (yes, I realize this is likely not a real-time experience as they are new on the market, but still...)? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SMART reserves have passed the full range of TSO testing. Now they are moving into the Beta phase where skydivers commit errors that never crossed the designer's mind in their worst drunken nightmare. If it is any consolation, the SMART was designed by the best minds out of Europe, and is built by the best production facility in Africa. The europeans who designed the SMART also designed Parachutes de France's Techno reserve which is one of the strongest and smallest packing reserves available. Parachute Industries of South Africa was always had a reputation for tight quality control, some of the best in the business. PISA built the highly-regarded Tempo series of reserves until they were bought out by the New Aerodyne. While SMART s use similar construction techniques, Aerodyne spokesmen were careful to point out that the SMART is a completely new design with subtle differences in line trim, airfoil section, reinforcing tapes. etc. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Please explain the difference between Type 1 and Type 3. I don't understand either one at all, just that one isn't as reliable as the other. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Type 1 is a herringbone weave tape that is stronger than Type 3 straight weave. (Sorry, but I will have to go look up the exact numbers.) Type 3 has been used successfully for years on main line attachments, and it worked well because most mains often soft. Because reserves are designed to open fast - read hard - most reserve manufacturers use Type 1 (P.D. uses another type of tape that closely resembles Type 1) but when Precision tried Type 3 line attachment tapes on their Raven Dash M, they found out that when customers overloaded Raven Dash Ms, then scared their Cypres while over speed and unstable, they sometimes tore Type 3 tapes off their reserves. Dooh! I think that the greatest difference between TSO testing and the real world is that real skydivers frequently deploy unstable, which puts all the opening shock on one side of the canopy, overstressing components. The main reason that Aerodyne switched from Type 3 to Type 1 is that too many Master Riggers told them too many times that they do not trust Type 3 on reserves. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Would you put your newbie sister/wife/girlfriend on one? Why/Why not? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sure, I would hang my girlfriend under a SMART reserve, but only if she was within the manufacturer's recommended weight limits. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. Who has bought one, and why? Who has considered it, and chosen to not buy it? Why? The benefit is simply price. At the moment, there is a good sale going on, and with my incredibly tight budget, this reserve has been recommended to me because of price and reputation of the company. I really would appreciate any information, opinion, and caution/encouragement. This is a huge deal to me...and I don't quite know what I'm doing (as with anything skydiving...). Thanks in advance... Ciels- Michele >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The above opinions were exp[ressed by a Master Rigger who has not packed, much less jumped a SMART reserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ibellis 0 #16 April 28, 2003 Well I have to thank most of you for pointing out the qualities of the Smart reserve. I will correct a few misconceptions however. It is not a Tempo. While some of the same people were involved in the R&D of our new reserve, there were other people like myself and Michel Auvray (Techno designer) that put in a great deal of work. One of the advantages we have is a very deep worldwide knowledge pool to draw from when it comes to designing equipment. The airfoil, construction, trim, etc. are all unique to the Smart (in particular, the reinforcement we are using at the trailing edge, as well as the leading edge spanwise along the A-line attachment points) We are receiving orders faster than we can build them right now, so I am sure several customers out there could chime in with their rationale for the purchase of a Smart. They are qualified under TSO C23d which means (heavy weights and high speeds) of course they were tested far beyond any FAA requirements as those are minimums. I am very familiar with other manufacturer's testing programs and can honestly say Aerodyne's is at the very least equal to and in many cases more comprehensive than any other manufacturer out there. There are many good canopies out there. My friends at other manufacturers make many good products. Some customers want the comfort of knowing they are buying a product that was designed many years ago and has stood the "test of time". while others want to avail themselves of all that has been learned about canopy design up to the present. Ultimately the choice is yours and I am confident you would be safe whether you chose a Smart or one of the others mentioned. Blue skies, Ian Bellis President Aerodyne Research Corporation Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #17 April 28, 2003 Ian, what a change to see a gear maker actually say their compatation has products that are good. I like that you are above slamming the others. Question.... Will Smart reserves be offered in a demo program eventually?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #18 April 28, 2003 Ian, Im just wondering, if there would be a way to Demo a Smart reserve? Strength is definitely the main reaslon I would buy a canopy, but I also want one that will fly well with the wingloading I am putting onit. Thankyou. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #19 April 28, 2003 Aerodyne demos will be done through their distributors. As an employee of one of their US distributors, I doubt we'll have Smart reserves available for demo anytime soon. Reason? We have to purchase all of our demos and we have a limited budget available for those purchases. The PD reserves we have set up for demoing as mains don't get used nearly often enough - while everyone says demoing a reserve brand and/or size is a great idea few people actually do it, even with the canopies right there at their home dz. We'd rather put those limited "demo dollars" into canopies that people will actually take out and fly, instead of putting them into canopies that will sit on the shelf for weeks at a time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ibellis 0 #20 April 28, 2003 Unfortunately, Lisa is right on in her assessment. For years I have been trying to convince people to demo the resereve they have or are considering but alas, it has been a very uphill battle. I also agree with Ray's comment regarding strength vs. flight and landing characteristics. One is not much good without the other (imho). Of course we designed the Smart with both of these issues in mind. We have received very nice feedback from people outside of the company that have jumped them. We are considering setting up some Smarts as mains and circulating them around to our distributors. This would give people an opportunity to try one if they go out and visit one of our distributors and not require our distributors to invest in them, since as Lisa said, they would rather invest in items that will actually get jumped often. I am a little cynical in terms of the numbers of people who would actually take advantage of the opportunity, but perhaps it is worth a try? What do you think Lisa? Of course right now we just have to catch up with orders first. Blue skies, Ian Bellis President Aerodyne Research Corporation Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #21 April 29, 2003 Quote I am a little cynical in terms of the numbers of people who would actually take advantage of the opportunity, but perhaps it is worth a try? What do you think Lisa? I think it's worth a try, and not just from a marketing angle. If one person decides to go up a size after jumping one, that demo program may have saved a life. Having demos available at boogies too might increase the number of people taking advantage of the opportunity. I say all this... and I've never demoed the reserve I'm carrying... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #22 April 29, 2003 It might make the most sense to have the 3-4 smallest sizes as demos. I think that is where the biggest need is. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kolla 0 #23 April 29, 2003 Are you jumping this weekend?? Wanna give it a go? If I remember correctly I think I have a cute little 143 on risers, ready to go as soon as Lisa tells me to ship it Demoing your reserve is a brilliant idea - I can tell you that the first time I jumped a reserve demo I was scared shitless - but it really gave me confidence in both the canopy and my abilities to fly it. So SkyBytch..... lead with an example and give it a go!! Bloooos! Kolla Blue Skies Magazine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #24 April 29, 2003 Quote If I remember correctly I think I have a cute little 143 on risers, ready to go as soon as Lisa tells me to ship it What's even worse... we've got one just like it at the store in Perris. I was planning to get at least one jump in one day after work this week... hmmm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 60 #25 April 29, 2003 Quote The europeans who designed the SMART also designed Parachutes de France's Techno reserve which is one of the strongest and smallest packing reserves available. riggerrob: can you tell us more about the features of TECHNO reserve? I heard it is more advanced and innovative than other brands... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
