Tandem Question

[JunkDiver 0]

whats the hardest thing about learning the Tandem? and how different is it from diving by yourself as to having extra weight attached to you? And what's the danger involved?

[andy2 0]

tandem is easy. Go out to your local dropzone and tell them you want to make a first tandem jump. It takes about 15-30 minutes to get briefed, less sometimes!

Go out and JUMP. You'll have a blast.

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let my inspiration flow,
in token rhyme suggesting rhythm...

[PhreeZone 15]

Are you refering to being a tandem instructor or as a student?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[JunkDiver 0]

sorry dude, yeah, talking about being a tandem instructor

[loudtom 5]

"whats the hardest thing about learning the Tandem? "

What do you define as hard? If you want to do tandems and you have the right motivation then the only hard part is the thing that is the scariest to all of the people in the world (public speaking, and putting yourself in as the main character in the show, with the student as your the supporting cast.)
Have you done a bic course? The role playing there is similar to practicing Tandems. It isn't hard if that is what you want to do... Was learning to drive hard???


"And what's the danger involved? [:/"

Stability out the door is the hardest. Not only being able to do it, but DOING it time after time no matter how boring it is. If you are head up and can get the drouge out stable, well... Try it, you might like it!

Hope my 2 cents worth helped.
loudtom

tom #90 #54 #08 and now #5 with a Bronze :-)

[PhreeZone 15]

Lets put a tandem as this way...

You are jumping a borrowed rig that will give you a pilotchute in tow, with a whuffo taking all your good air, and thats a BEST case situation. A tandem IS NOT just another skydive!

You now have 6 handles that can be pulled. Pull them in the Wong order and your a fatility. I'm trying to come up with the exact number but its something like 500+ possible combonations of pull sequence and only a bit over 100 of them are survivable.

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And tomorrow is a mystery

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[mofo554 0]

I've heard some AFF instructors at my DZ say that they don't want to get their tandem rating, simply because tandem jumps really wear down the body. They mentioned something about openings, and supporting weight, as well as landings...which obviously are much more complicated. So the question goes out to all TMs: Do tandems wear down your body more than normal solo skydives?

[PhreeZone 15]

5 tandems in a day and I'm starting to drag, 6 is the most I've done to this point and it became nap time for me. 10 fun jumps in one day and I had more energy then I did after those 6 tandems.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

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[AggieDave 6]

Being a TM has to be one of the most rewarding things to do in skydiving, hands down. You take a basic whuffo and in the course of an hour train them (albite very little), take them on the experience of their lifetime and you were apart of that, sharing their energy and emotional high. That aspect can not be fully described, you just have to experience it.

I haven't found tandems to be really hard on my body, I've heard some people talk about that, but I only have a bit over 100 tandem jumps since June, so maybe I'll experinece that eventually. Honestly, though, I think it comes down to strength and endurance. For instance, riser pressure can be very high (front and rear...you can use double fronts to help get going into the wind if you got out in the wrong spot and are trying to get to your landing area, for instance, obviously not for "hook'n tandems"), but I've found it very easy to pull the risers no problem. Fixing collapsed endcells after opening is easy to do using double rears and steering the canopy before I release the toggles is pretty easy too. I have heard other TMs comment that they're not strong enough to really do that more then once...for them, it has to be hard on their body.

Opening? Well, on the gear I jump and am rated for, I consistantly see 1000+ft openings. Nothing but butter, nice soft and consistantly on heading. (*cough*sigmakicksass*cough*).

What is hard? Pre-drogue throw stability with a "trouble" student. That can definately be...ummm..."fun."

As for the jumps wearing you out...well, did 5 tandems today and 2 sport jumps. Did 6 tandems yesterday and I'm actually not wore out from those. (I am still sleepy from the very hard school week I just had, but that's a different point all together.) The most I've done in one day is 12 tandems. The biggest problem I had was on the last one my shoulders were pretty wore out from flying the canopy, but if it would have actually been a problem, well, the student can always help.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[PhreeZone 15]

A lot of how wore out you get doing tandems also seems to matter with what gear you jump. Jumping a PD500 every once and a while makes my arms burn just doing minimal flight controls. The FC365 and FC400 are easier, and the PD-384 is a pretty easy to fly canopy too. But if you get girls like I took today that refuse to hold the toggles at all then things get really tiring fast.

Also smaller people get worn out faster. Me at 6'2 170 pounds dont exactly have alot of sheer muscle strength that others might have.

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And tomorrow is a mystery

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[cpoxon 0]

Quote

You now have 6 handles that can be pulled. Pull them in the Wong order and your a fatility. I'm trying to come up with the exact number but its something like 500+ possible combonations of pull sequence and only a bit over 100 of them are survivable.

Tandem vs. Solo Handle Numbers

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[slotperfect 7]

There have been some really good things said here already.

I will reinforce that a tandem is not just another skydive. There is increased risk and a huge increase in responsibility. For me, like Dave mentioned, the reward is well worth the extra risk,and I thrive on the extra responsibility.

Getting to the questions, the hardest things about tandem jumps are the unpredictable exits and the landings, which have many more moving parts than a regular skydive landing. Do they wear your body out? Like anything else, if you are in shape to handle the activity, you can condition yourself to handle multiple tandem jumps. My max in a day was six, packing my own rig. I was tired, but not broken down. Sometimes if I have had really heavy students all day, my shoulders will be rather sore, but otherwise it's all good.

Arrive Safely

John

[Tonto 1]

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whats the hardest thing about learning the Tandem?

Staying alive.

I shit you not. Those dudes will try and kill you without even knowing it... and you can't cut them away without all kinds of shit coming down on you.

Most are fine - but every few 100, you'll need to earn your skin BIG TIME

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Ron 7]

The passenger is there to try and kill you.
Just remember that.

It is very rewarding...in some money, but mainly in taking people to do something they would never do without you.

But just like a skyboard....a tandem passengers main function is to try and kill you.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[JeffGordon 0]

Packing a 400 sq foot canopy

[riggerrob 563]

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"whats the hardest thing about learning the Tandem? "

, and putting yourself in as the main character in the show, with the student as your the supporting cast. ...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Clearly not spoken by a videographer.
The student (in the clear goggles) should be centered in the frame. The tandem instructor (in the dark goggles) should blurr into the background.

As for the question about "How physically demanding is it?"
My first job as a tandem instructor involved doing 8 tandems a day and all my own packing.
While working at Snohomish I routinely did a dozen tandems per day.
Yesterday I did 7 tandems, Saturday I did 8 tandems plus a camera jump.
Last Sunday I did 6 tandem jumps and was wondering if their were any more students.
Last Saturday I did 9 tandems jumps.
Do you get the picture?
The downside of this pattern (or is it old age?) is that at the end of the day all you want if supper and a bed. Smart TIs leave the heavy drinking to younger men.
Fortunately these days, the better schools hire people specifically to pack tandem rigs. I find packing to be the most fatiguing part of jumping, closely followed by the waiting around on the ground.

• Quote

[AggieDave 6]

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But if you get girls like I took today that refuse to hold the toggles at all then things get really tiring fast

The only time I have my students helping me land (I'll let them fly around some above 1.5k) is when they're doing a CatA or a CatB dive and that's part of their training.

Otherwise, I find it easier to just land the canopy myself.

I'm spoiled, that I definately know, jumping Sigma rigs with Sigma 370 canopies and an occasional jump on an EZ-384.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[peek 20]

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whats the hardest thing about learning the Tandem? and how different is it from diving by yourself as to having extra weight attached to you? And what's the danger involved?

The additional danger I consider being more chance of a reserve ride, partially because I am not doing the packing. (Those that do their own have excellent malfunction rates.)

I have always been dismayed when I hear someone use the expression "Passenger trying to kill you, etc." I suppose if the person is trained only to be a passive, joy-riding piece of cargo, and has not been well trained on what to expect, that when they feel those totally unexplained sensations and feelings, that they might do something that makes your jump more dangerous.

But.... If things are explained to them, and they are treated with respect, I find that they are wonderful jump companions. I am totally amazed sometimes the things that I can teach my students, all because I take the time to make them feel comfortable and confident in themselves.

The extra weight answer is: If your student is in a good body position, their weight is an asset! (Just like the ol' belly-wart days.)

Now, to answer your first question?
The hardest thing about doing Tandems is getting the DZO and other lazier Tandem Instructors to cooperate, and let you train your students and make them safer, and allow them to learn more.

[jimjumper 25]

Never underestimate a tandem pasenger!! i took a guy that was deliberately trying to grab his toes!! He said (after I grabbed him, got stable, and opened at a normal alttitude) that he wanted to "go head down real fast", because he saw it in a James Bond movie the week before!! Doing tandems is like getting a present from your Grandma. You don't know what your going to get but your probably not going to like it!

[billvon 2,478]

>I have always been dismayed when I hear someone use the
> expression "Passenger trying to kill you, etc." I suppose if the
> person is trained only to be a passive, joy-riding piece of cargo, and
> has not been well trained on what to expect, that when they feel
> those totally unexplained sensations and feelings, that they might
> do something that makes your jump more dangerous.

I've had well trained, experienced (i.e. 3-7 jump) AFF students try to kill me. They don't know they're doing it, they sometimes just do stuff that is dangerous to JM's (like going into a perfect track right under you as they go in to pull.)

[mark135 0]

four arms, four legs, and a pilot chute in tow.... what could possibly go wrong?

_______________


"It seemed like a good idea at the time"

[peek 20]

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I took a guy that was deliberately trying to grab his toes!! He said that he wanted to "go head down real fast", because he saw it in a James Bond movie the week before!!

Jim,
I know Tandem students can do things. I am very curious about what exactly you trained him to do on that jump as far as exit and manuvers. Body position during exit? Practice pulls?. Turns?, Tracking body position?, Pull sequence?

(And Bill, dammit, you hijacked the thread! I know AFF students can track under you, but I thought we were talking about Tandem.)

[Ron 7]

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I have always been dismayed when I hear someone use the expression "Passenger trying to kill you, etc."

Yes, but it is true. Adding a passenger is like adding a wingsuit or board...All you are doing is taking a jump and making it more difficult. However a skyboard will not try to grab your hands...(Even though I had told them MANY times not to touch my hands or arms) And a wingsuit will not try to grab its toes or go fetal with fear.

By adding a passenger you add a great deal more possible problems.

But they are also variable. They can do some, none, or all of the bad things in one jump.

Education can reduce most of the risk...but in the end you have a person that has never done something being put into a dangerous situation and you can never be 100% sure how they will react...even with good training.

So if you think that every single one of them is going to do every single stupid thing....Then if they don't you will have an easy ride...But if they do you will have expected that.

You are WAY more experienced than me....But I use this approach to try to live long enough to get more experience.

FWIW...I think solo jumpers are out to kill me as well. So I keep an eye on possible problems. And under canopy I think everyone is trying to collide with me.

Its kept me alive so far.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[ernokaikkonen 0]

Quote

You now have 6 handles that can be pulled. Pull them in the Wong order and your a fatility. I'm trying to come up with the exact number but its something like 500+ possible combonations of pull sequence and only a bit over 100 of them are survivable.

Strong rigs and the new Skyhook equipped Sigmas have only 5 handles = 120 combinations.

edit to add: I know Strongs have 5 handles, not counting the RSL release. I'm not really sure about the Sigma, I just assume 6 handles minus the crystal ball =5.

[kelpdiver 2]

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>I have always been dismayed when I hear someone use the

I've had well trained, experienced (i.e. 3-7 jump) AFF students try to kill me. They don't know they're doing it, they sometimes just do stuff that is dangerous to JM's (like going into a perfect track right under you as they go in to pull.)

No, they're just trying to figure out how to fly. It should be expected that they aren't going to be fully successful at it. But you, with likely 500x their unattached flying time, should have no trouble staying out of harms way. And in short order you become experienced with all the crazy things they can do that you need to look out for, for both their safety and your's.