Struggling student stuck on 3s delays

[lintern 1]

I've been jumping for 18 months now and I am struggling to progress onto freefall. This is highlighted by the fact that I've done 60 jumps now and the furthest I've got is 3 sec delays, although I've been put back onto the static line for the second time because on my last 3 sec delay my foot got entangled in the canopy lines.

I did around 30-40 DRP's before being cleared for freefall.

My first problem with DRP's was fumbling for the handle but I seem to have got that sorted now.

Then my arms were sometimes too high and I de-arched on the pull. As well as this I sometimes failed to put my left arm above my head to stay stable on the pull.

Because of this, every 3 sec jump I have done has always resulted in me rolling on my back when I go for the pull.

Some of my jumps have been even worse because not only do I de-arch, I leave my legs in the same position as they are when I am in the door, so when I go out my legs are all over the place and I end up with my head towards the earth and my feet towards the sky.

This has happened 3 times and the last time it happened is when I became entangled. As the pilot chute deployed the lines wrapped around my left foot. I managed to untangle myself but I must have flipped the wrong way through the risers because they were twisted, so I kept my manoeuvres to a minimum as I was unsure how big a problem this was.

I know how I am suppose to exit and understand the theory behind it, but as soon as I get in the door I start to feel overwhelmed and just want to get out and get a safe canopy above my head, I find this the most intense part of the jump.

For those few intense seconds as I leave the aircraft my mind goes blank which I've been told is due to sensory overload, but I always get the handle.

I've practiced time and time again on the ground using the mock up which is simple enough, but it's nothing at all like the real thing so it doesn't seem to be helping.

When practicing exits on the mock up you land on the ground so your legs are instantly symmetrical and you don't even think about controlling them, but when doing it for real in the air this is not the case. And the fact that you're not a 4000ft doing 70mph makes it completely different still!

I know to look up into the plane on exit to help keep the arch but when it comes to the exit I freak out. Everything I've learnt and practiced goes out the window and I just end up letting fate take its course. I've even tried the visualisation technique and tried focusing on what I want to happen rather than what I don't want to happen, but there's always that nagging thought reminding me that if I don't get my exit right then I'll be unstable and even worse I could get entangled.

Things were made more difficult earlier on in the year due to a few incidents which I don't think has helped my confidence much.

After having a break from jumping because of winter and my regular parachute centre (Tilstock) was closed, when I started to get back into jumping again I found myself having a line over mal on my 26th jump (a DRP) at my first visit to Hinton.

I was unaware I had a mal at first as I had twists so I just tried kicking them out, but the canopy began spiralling out of control and after approximately 18 secs I cut away. From that point on I did ok but I was shocked by the whole event. I was told that the mal was caused by packing as my exit was alright.

On returning to Tilstock the following weekend I found out that one of my instructors had died from a bad landing on a skydiving trip in Portugal - another negative thought to deal with which came as a great shock.

Even though I've had a mal and dealt with it early on in my skydiving, it should make me more confident knowing that I dealt with it successfully. But instead it has had more of a negative effect as I worry about it happening again and maybe not being able to deal with it the next time. For example, if I am entangled or if it's a high speed mal which requires a quick response under stressful conditions.

I did a tandem jump a few months ago in the hope it would help my confidence and give me the experience of freefall. I really enjoyed it and even did some turns with little or no assistance from my tandem instructor (or so he told me and this is how it appears on the video!).

But I now feel like I have to make the decision of whether to give up jumping because I am struggling so much. Though if I do give up I will be gutted because I've got the bug and want to be able to freefall solo. Then I also think to myself am I the right sort of person to be doing this sport? When I was a child I was terrified of heights and wouldn't even go on theme park rides and couldn't get halfway up a lighthouse because of vertigo!

I read one article on your page when someone said they get very nervous when doing a jump and if they hear the wind is too high they are silently relieved. I can relate to this in a way, but at the same time if I hear the weather is going to be bad when I hope to jump at the weekend then I am gutted and annoyed because I want to jump!

AFF isn't an option as I am skint and shouldn't even be doing these RAPS jumps at £35 a time, but its my hobby. So £1200 or so for AFF is completely out of the question. Plus I'm now also doubting my ability if I could handle AFF as its a quick learning curve under intense conditions. If I could afford to do AFF I would probably have to repeat many levels, just like the fact I've had to do so many DRP's on the RAPS system.

Please help as I don't want to quit but at the same time its getting to that stage

[billvon 2,421]

I need a little more info here.

1. Are you practicing "arch-look-reach-pull?" If so, it may be that you are distorting your body when you look for the ripcord.

2. Are you using a ripcord or a pilot chute? The techniques are slightly different for the two of them.

We used to do "arch-look-reach-pull" in our AFF program; the theory was the student had to see the handle to be able to pull it. When we switched to BOC ripcords, we switched to "arch-reach-feel-pull" while the student kept their eyes on the horizon. Since they didn't have to move their heads, there was one less thing to go wrong at pull time. Seemed to work.

If it's any consolation, I did 10 DRCP's before I got to freefall. I didn't hold the record at my DZ but I did come in third for the number of DRCP's required.

[jerry81 10]

The problem is in your head and it seems to be rooted pretty deep, but your determination to learn to skydive is admirable. If AFF really isn't an option (although 40 DRPs at 35 squid per jump sounds even more expensive), I'd suggest you start meditating or doing yoga. Or just read up and practice correct breathing methods for relaxation. Anything that will give your mind more control over what your body and subconscious are doing. Or simply ask if you can stick your head out of the plane a few times before you get to altitude so you get more comfortable with what it's like outside...
I hope you will somehow succeed!

---

[JeffD 0]

Ok, so how many times have you jumped out of an airplane? 40 times!!! thats 40 times more than most of the world. Practice practice practice. On the ride to altitude just keep going over it in your head. Try standing in your arch position (on the ground) and pretend you just did a perfect exit and do a practice pull (with your eyes closed) do that so many times it becomes boring and then do it some more. Remember you are doing this to be free of everything, why let some little worries stop you from having fun?!? I am on aff lvl 4 now and the past 4 jumps (did 1 iad then 3 aff) everything was fine until the door opend then I just start controlled breathing (like yoga) step in the door, and out I go, dont think about it so much, just get your ass out there an have fun!!! Good luck and you'll get it.

[mstr 0]

Your situation sounds similar to mine.

I've been jumping for 6 months. I got to short freefalls after 4 IAD:s and 5 DRP:s. I was terribly afraid of my first 3 sec delay, deployed on by back and had a reserve ride.

After regaining my courage I went back and after 2 more unstable deployments I one day found myself in the exit door relaxed and feeling good. I passed that 3" nicely.

Next day I was trying to do 5 sec, and my brain froze at the door again. This time I ended up with my leg entangled in the lines. It cleared easily though, but got me scared again.

I got two choices. Either back to DRP:s or do an AFF jump before going back to 5 sec. Now I'm looking into doing AFF, because I'm not too sure that short delays will go any better after more DRP:s. AFF is expensive, but it sounds better than more short delays.

18 months is a long time with nearly no freefall time. Maybe you could do one AFF jump and see if that helps your short delays, or if you should jump all AFF levels.

[bigG 0]

Quote

AFF isn't an option as I am skint and shouldn't even be doing these RAPS jumps at £35 a time, but its my hobby. So £1200 or so for AFF is completely out of the question.

I think AFF is the best option for you. You need in-air assistance. AFF is indeed very expensive in UK but try to find out about other places like Empuribrava in Spain (www.skyrats.com) or Skydive Algarve in Portugal. They are less expensive and with the no.s of jumps you have they may put you straight to level 3. Talk to them and explain them your situation. IT IS DOABLE.

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Please help as I don't want to quit but at the same time its getting to that stage

John DeRosalia (from his book "Mental Training for Skydiving and life") says that when you think negatively, you are more likely to make the same mistake that you are trying so hard not to make!!

Instead think and visualize positively and your body will mimic the same in freefall.
Read the book if you can. Skydiving is a very "mind intensive" sport. It requires both your body and mind to work together...so you need to train both of them!
The most important thing I could suggest is to trying to relax as much as possible before exit and visualize yourself doing a perfect jump...and it will happen.
You must have seen other RW flyers close their eyes on the ride to altitude and do their "funny" moves. Guess what they are doing?

Positive visualization! It works…try it.

Don't give up… it so going to be worth it once you get your CAT 8!

Relax and stay safe!!

P.S. Talk to your instructors. They will tell you what you need to work on.

[airdog07 0]

you need to go to [url]http://www.skydivingmagazine.com and get a back issues #260 march 2003 read article a conversation with mariann kramer. after that go make a jump

"A peaceful heart leads to a healthy body; jealousy is like cancer in the bones ..."

[ripcords 0]

Any chance of getting to the Skyventure wind tunnel. A few minutes of tunnel time would sort out all of your freefall anxieties in a low stress environment. At this point it does not seem like you have any canopy issues.

A word of encouragement. The best skydiving instructors that I have known, were not natural born skydivers.

Stick with it, but don't beat a dead horse. Either get some tunnel time or do some AFF style training.

[velo90 0]

Interesting post and have seen this problem often enough.

Just a few thoughts from me......

Lintern is abviously pulling and pulling at the right time
It was interesting to watch the experienced Jumpers (200+) trying to exit on the CRW course I attended. Quite a few had problems with the short delay and pull. The CRW instructor was very aware of the problems RW jumpers would have with 3s and pull and advised us to take 6 or 7s before we pulled. Hard openings but at least stable.

If the student IS pulling and pulling at the right time, then maybe instead of concentrating on a perfect exit, allow him a few seconds more to get stable.

Worked for me.

[lintern 1]

***
I need a little more info here.

1. Are you practicing "arch-look-reach-pull?" If so, it may be that you are distorting your body when you look for the ripcord so I .

2. Are you using a ripcord or a pilot chute? The techniques are slightly different for the two of them.

***

I am using BOC ripcord (this does mean bottom of container doesnt it?) with a spring loaded pilot chute. If its any help the container is a Javelin and the canopy is a Skymaster. Obviously a student rig with a cypress and 290 sq. ft. canopy.
So I am not looking for the ripcord but feeling for it instead. But I still end up de-arching on the pull and sometimes I never even arch at all.

[tkhayes 140]

1. find a different dropzone

2. if you have pulled that many times and lived, then there is no reason to not progress you to 10 second delays so you have a chance to get to terminal and feel the air.

My personal opinion is that most instructors themselves could not do a perfect 3 second delay, so why do we make students to it to perfection....?

TK

[lintern 1]

Quote

Any chance of getting to the Skyventure wind tunnel. A few minutes of tunnel time would sort out all of your freefall anxieties in a low stress environment. At this point it does not seem like you have any canopy issues.

Ive asked about wind tunnels and get different answers, all of which make sense though.

People have told me that it wont help with my exits as its purely for when you are actually in freefall. On 3 sec delays its my exits that need work on.

But then again other people think it may help me experience how solo freefall feels and how to remain stable.

There's suppose to be a new SkyVenture wind tunnel opening at Milton Keynes (UK) but it wont be until mid 2004 and some people even seem doubtful about it opening at all.

Failing that the only other alternative is the wind tunnel in Paris.

I am going to Michigan Grand Rapids mid November for a week but I dont think there are any wind tunnels around that part of the US?

But as I say some people think it wont be of any help with my exits what so ever.

[medoa 0]

Hi. Ive finnished my course just a few months ago. Now I have 42 jumps and I recognize your problem. Everything went fine until the first 3 s delay when I had to pull it myself for the first time. Then I did like you, I dearched and turned in the air. This repeated itself for a few times and I then had to move back to static line. My way of getting through this was through focusing on my problem only (sort of) When exiting I didnt want an excess of mindbargage of fears and stuff that up to the point had worked fine. So basically I reduced my attention to the problem area with focus and mentalisation.... for me it worked. And as a word of reconsiliation. After that I went through it all without problems. So its very possible to have just one problem area after which everything falls into place.
Good luck

[maxvenom 0]

Hi,

I cant say i did have that problem.
I think why i did it right the first time was due to practice....in the pool. Is sat on the side of the pool like i sat in the door, focused "jumped" and went through the drill (while sinking to the bottom of the pool) i did this for about 40 times (people look kinda strange at ya....but anyway).

And did the exect same thing in the air !!

That won't solve the problem of being in the air....Or maybe it will !!

[DeNReN 0]

What kind of plane, and what kind of exit??

[ripcords 0]

Unfortunately, wind tunnels are few and far between. I think a wind tunnel in the U.K. would be very successful so I hope it does come to be. And I sincerely believe that it would make you feel comfortable with the total freefall environment.
The threads are correct. The short delay is one of the most difficult, that is why it is the last jump in our training program, after our students have practiced a simulated clear and pull exit it on several high jumps.

[ixlr82 7]

Why not try AFF? Do you have to pay for the whole course up front? If not , try a level or two and see if that changes anything. It seems to me you just need to learn to feel and trust the relative wind and I don't see that happening on 3 second delays. I was trained static line but for you it just seems to be beating a dead horse. One thing is for sure, this is going to make a great story years from now when you have hundreds or thousands of jumps!

__________________________________________

[lintern 1]

Quote

What kind of plane, and what kind of exit??

The plane is a small Cessna 206, right hand exit.

I dont know the name for the type of exit other than a student exit.

The left hand goes in front on the sill of the door.

The right hand goes behind on the vertical edge of the door.

The left buttock sits on the edge of the door sill.

The left leg is bent but with the foot pushed back and toes pointed.

The right leg is straight with the foot pushed back and toes pointed.

[PhreeZone 15]

They having you sitting in the door frame for your 3 second delays? Let me guess, they are having you sit and exit,when you exit you have to turn back towards the plane and then open?

You might talk to them about doing a hanging exit. This would be where you hang from the strut and let go. When you let go you are already in a good body position and all you have to do is ARCH, and pull.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[jaaska 0]

Hanging exit is not an option in C206 or in various other c-models...

[skydivejersey 0]

I would seriously consider saving for at least a Level 1 AFF. That should give you a taste of what your after and also teach you more about the body position you are after. That 1 jump will probably give you the same freefall time as you have had to date.

[PhreeZone 15]

>Hanging exit is not an option in C206 or in various other c-models...

Funny... I've got 40-50 exits hanging from the strut of Cesnna 182's, and 206's.

If the 206 is a cargo door model then its a little different.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[heftee 0]

I've been trying to find this article for a long time and don't see it on their back issues. It shows Feb and April but not March - any help?

-------------------------
"If you've never jumped out of a plane, the best way I can describe it is it feels as if you've just jumped out of a freakin' plane."
David Whitley (Orlando Sentinel)

[metalslug 31]

Quote

The plane is a small Cessna 206, right hand exit.

I dont know the name for the type of exit other than a student exit.

The left hand goes in front on the sill of the door.

The right hand goes behind on the vertical edge of the door.

The left buttock sits on the edge of the door sill.

The left leg is bent but with the foot pushed back and toes pointed.

The right leg is straight with the foot pushed back and toes pointed.

Our DZ has 2 C206T aircraft, one has a strut and a platform over the wheel for hanging exits and the other has the cargo door setup.

I did AFF in which the last jump (Level 8 consolidation) is a 5000ft hop&pop, similar to a 3s delay. I did my jump from the same type of aircraft and in the same manner you describe and my instructor's logbook remark says: "Excellent. A text-book hop&pop..." *gloat*

I exited much like you decribe; seated at the very edge, legs hanging out the door, body positioned somewhat sideways to face the prop.
Both my legs were bent at the knee and my toes were not pointed, my legs were really just hanging.
I'm not sure if this really makes a difference.

The 'trick', i think, is to not allow your butt to drag at all out the door.. ie: use your arms and left thigh to push you out. Just at exit I pressed down sharply with my thigh to briefly lift my butt off the floor of the aircraft and then simultaneously and quite forcefully pushed myself out with both hands, left hand applying pressure to left sill of the doorway and the right hand positioned behind my back and applying pressure to the right sill of the doorway.

You need to do this evenly though; the objective is, of course, to exit parallell to the plane (facing the wing) and arch immediately to catch the wind. If you push unevenly then you'll pivot on exit.

I have noticed some students are a fraction hesistant to arch from the cargo door because they feel 'too close to the plane'. They think they might hit an arm or an elbow on the door or rear tail.
An exit like described above should put your arms well clear of the aircraft for an immediate arch.
..and trust the arch, even if it feels like a very unnatural position, it's proven to work. Arch-thousand.. Two-thousand.. Reach-thousand.. Pull-thousand.

Your pesistance is admirable. Best of luck.

PS: I am not an instructor, I am relaying a student experience only. Anything that your instructor tells you should take preference over my advice.

[DeNReN 0]

Well...I guess the next question is......is it a cargo door c-206 or can u get to the wing strut for a hanging exit? As Phreezone said...a hanging exit puts you in a great position to move into your arch....it is how all students at my DZ exit on there IAD's,3 sec,5 sec,etc. So let us know about your DZ's c-206 plz.

I am not a instructor...but i hope that my limited experiance may help with your problem.

attached are 2 pics of me, hanging and after letting go.