Thoughts of quitting...

[Synapse 0]

Hey guys, I am posting this b/c I’m looking for advice from others who may have been through, are currently going through, or may know someone else’s brother’s sister’s cousin who has felt the same way about skydiving that I am feeling right now.

Ok so here goes…
[pour out all emotions for others to judge here]
I love the feeling I get from skydiving. Its challenging, emotionally rewarding, and obviously a lot of fun. I like all of the people I have met in the limited amount of time I’ve been jumping (around 4 months) and enjoy just hanging out around the DZ to see all of the different types of people this sport attracts. When I’m jumping I have no concerns what so ever about my safety, this doesn’t mean I’m not thinking about safety just that I’m not thinking “holy shit I might die…what would that do to everyone I love….is this worth loosing it all for”. That kinda crazy shit. These thoughts never enter my mind the whole time I’m at the DZ, whether I’m just there for a single day or a 5 day vacation. I just face the challenge of learning what I’m there to learn and enjoying myself along the way.

Now on the other hand, when I get back home from a weekend trip to the DZ and start reading on DZ.com about how some student or a guy with 4,000 jumps just broke their back or, even worse, died in some accident it is a little less than encouraging. It is then that I start to question whether or not the sport is worth it. I start questioning if what I am getting out of the sport is worth the risk involved. This is far from normal behavior for me. I’m not one to usually hold back on doing something I enjoy due to risk, unless what I consider fun is playing in traffic on the interstate… then logic has to step in.
Earlier in life I was a fire fighter for a little over 4 years, mostly volunteer with a small stint in a paid department that had to be cut short for college. Now by no means is that a safe job/hobby/whatever you want to call it. Getting cooked alive in a house is a very real danger, as is getting infected with any number of blood-born pathogens at car accidents, gun shot wounds, etc. With firefighting I could simply accept those risks and prepare myself well enough to deal with what I had to face. I can’t seem to do that as easily lately with skydiving… I continue to question it again and again. It also may be related to what I read about skydiving. I never sat down night after night reading about fire fighting fatalities, but that’s pretty much what I do on dz.com all the time. I guess ignorance is bliss because the more I read about people getting seriously hurt or killed the more I question my decision to participate. I know these same things happen to people in cars all the time, but I put myself in my 4-wheeled red missile everyday to drive to work w/o thinking about it.

Despite all of these concerns the next time I go back to the DZ they all disappear. Boom, gone just like that and right then its all worth it. The whole experience is like Red Bull for the soul, it really jolts me back to life after sitting behind a computer all week except for when I’m in one of the 45,000 meetings we have each week where I get to listen to people bitch and complain about this that and the other when none of it matters. Ugh.
[end emotion dump]

I guess what I’m looking to gain out of this post is some insight into how everyone else deals with stuff like this, or if they do at all. Maybe even what would you guys do if you were in my shoes. *shrug* I have already asked one of my newly found skydiving friends for her advice on this subject and got some really valuable insight, but I figured I would put this out here to see what everyone else had to say.


Anyway, thanks for reading this ungodly long post!

-syn

[FrogNog 1]

Here is how I personally handle the incidents section: I expect an average of one U.S. skydiving fatality every ten days. When I see about that many, give or take, I feel that my expectation is being met, and the odds of going in are not changing.

The sport is as safe as it is; neither less nor more dangerous. More or less reporting doesn't affect that. The gory details don't affect that. Similarities between them and me may or may not affect that; I use these as opportunities to learn.

With the number of active skydivers in the U.S. and about 36 deaths per year, I'm OK with my chances and I feel that if I burn in, that's the price for my enjoyment.

Injuries are a bit harder for me to rationalize away, but thankfully they don't seem to be reported as thoroughly, eh?

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[elfanie 0]

I'm actually very similar...

But I try to just remain logical about it...the fact that we hear about EVERY fatality doesn't mean that they are that common. It just makes it seem like it.

Just like when they started reporting all of these shark attacks a couple of years ago, and called it the "summer of the sharks"...
shark attacks were actually DOWN that year! It's just that they were reporting them more!

or when it seemed like there were a slew of child abductions all of a sudden..so all of the parents started keeping their children inside and not letting them play outside. Abductions weren't up..they were just being reported more so the preception was that the danger had increased and that the danger was extremely high...

I try very hard to remain logical about this rather than emotional...look at the REAL risk instead of just the perceived risk. And even still..I go through the same sort of debate that you describe. I ask myself, "how dangerous is it REALLY..and is it worth it?"
I came to the conclusion that it's not as dangerous as it may seem (although, as someone else said, it's terribly unforgiving). I just do everything within my power to reduce my risk...and play as safely as I can. If I do that..then I feel that it's very safe. (there was a huge discussion recently about whether it's 'safe' or not...so I'm not trying to get into that again.)

Anyways..I, too, cringe every single time I see a new report in Incidents>...and begin to question what I'm doing.
so I try to remain logical and look at real risks vs. percieved risks..

--------------------------------------------
Elfanie
My Skydiving Page
Fly Safe - Soft Landings

[GravityGirl 0]

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that you don't read forums pertaining to how many firefighters got cooked that day, etc.

Imagine if you read incident reports every evening for nationwide or even statewide traffic accidents.

I think about my mortality EVERY day. I am the mother of a loving little three year old girl who really needs her mommy.

I have seen lots of shit go down in this sport. I have lost friends and lovers. I have been hurt big time.

You are a normal human being. With real feelings that are quite valid. Seems you have a respect for what we are doing. Take it day by day. Moment by moment. If the day comes when the joy doesn't balance or outweigh the pain, then hang it up.

I hope you never loose respect for what you are doing. It helps you keep your edge.

Follow your instincts. You know what you really want to do.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[airman210 0]

I think you put into words what alot of skydivers feel.
I have 200 jumps in the last four months and I still think about it. Statistics comfort me. Don't do stupid sh*t, and your chances get better. Dont pull 360 hooks on your 75th jump. It is a true tragedy that most of our fellow jumpers that die, do so under fully functioning canopies. And it is not the experts, it is the rookies. People downsize without even learning to fully squeeze the performance out of the larger canopies. Do a "downsize checklist" (available in the forums).
Anybody can make an arguement for or against the safety or non-safety of skydiving. But read the incidents, more often than not fatalities and injuries are from a multitude of mistakes, or just an oblivious attitude.
When It is all said and done we will all die at some time. Don't fear death, fear the chances of life that you missed living afraid. Because beleive me, if you skydive or if you don't, you will most likely die from old age in a bed on your back thinking about the life you had and the life you missed. And you will not regret the chance you took, only the chance you missed. Blues. Be safe. Fly in the face of fear.

[bodypilot1 0]

How's this....
Every time you drive your car to work or where ever, and the only thing separating you from the other car coming at you going 65MPH is that little yellow line, you might want to pull over to the side of the road and wait for it to pass you? Because you never know if they are drunk, adjusting their stereo, picking up the CD they just dropped, or talking on their phone and not paying attention to the road.
We do this everyday and not think twice about what can happen to us.....

Dont be afraid of dying, be afraid of NOT LIVING!
Keep jumping, be safe and enjoy life!

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[slug 1]

What he said!

When you read the accident reports learn from them tell yourself don't do that.

Your chance of dieing in the sport can be reduced by 50% by simply flying a properly sized canopy and learning how to fly it.

Keep your head on a swivel under canopy for other folks that aren't paying attention. Keep looking until your safely back in the packing area.

Don't get on loads that you don't think your ready for even if invited. Same with high winds or last load of the day (ends up as a night jump).

Practice your emerency procedures so you will react automatically, you can have a mal on any jump.

R.I.P.

Who says skydivers are stupid we invented a whole new ways to kill ourselves.

[dustin19d 0]

I just dont let those thoughts of getting seriously hurt or killed even enter my mind, And that is how I deal with it.

[mr2mk1g 10]

The thing that's scaring you is reading about the incidents.

Im a lawyer that deals with a lot of RTA's. All day long I read in graphic detail about car accidents, look at photographs of car accidents, analise car accidents, think about what could have been done differently to avoid that accident. This is very similar to reading about skydiving incidents. We read about them and analise them in the hope that we can learn from them how to avoid that situation.

Does reading about car accidents make me scared of driving? No. Does it make me a safer driver? Yes, I believe it does, cos Im always thinking, "what if some idiot pulls out now?... what if he swerves?... what if..." and I drive accordingly

Do that with skydiving. Don't let incident reports make you fear the sport - let them make you think about how you can make your skydiving safer. Reading incident reports is a good thing - it reduces the risk of skydiving slightly - they have the ability to make the sport a little safer for you.

[sducoach 0]

Read everyone's opinion and understand that is what they are.

Follow your heart.


Blues,

J.E.

James 4:8

[skybytch 259]

I think there are numerous ways to handle what you're feeling and thinking. You can not deal with it - quit the sport, or as one poster mentioned "try not to think about it." Quitting the sport solves the problem quickly. Trying not to think about it puts the whole problem off - for awhile, until someone dies in front of you and it becomes something you can't avoid anymore.

Or you can deal with it. Accept that because you jump out of airplanes at some time you will experience pain, physical and/or emotional. You will reassess the risk/benefit equation repeatedly over the years.

Skydiving can take you to the highest of highs and to the lowest of lows, and there's no shame in admitting you don't want to experience either. If you want the highs, then you have to accept the lows.

Happily, the lows aren't nearly as frequent as the highs.

As Bonnie said -

Quote

If the day comes when the joy doesn't balance or outweigh the pain, then hang it up.

Good advice.

[Hooknswoop 19]

My advice is, as Lisa said, either deal with it or quit. Given your back ground, I think you can deal with it. Channel that nervous energy into learning/education/training. Knowledge dispels fear. I have 3300 injury free skydives, and I wasn't one that didn't push my limits.

Learn everything you can. Take the sport seriously. Know exactly what you would do in an aircraft emergency every time you get on the airplane. Maintain your gear. Have a rigger go through your gear with you. Ask questions, get several answers and explanations for the answers.

Canopy control is the no 1 source of inciddents and 99% of those could have been prevented.

If you want to continue jumping you have to accept that an incident can happen. You have to also realize you can decrease your risk of an incident with a lot of hard work.

Good luck,

Derek

(A proffessional golfer hit a hole-in-one at a competetion. After the game a reporter mentioned what a lucky shot that was. The golfer replied, "Well, the more I practice, the luckier I get." Make your own luck)

[lowie 0]

Quote

How's this....
Every time you drive your car to work or where ever, and the only thing separating you from the other car coming at you going 65MPH is that little yellow line, you might want to pull over to the side of the road and wait for it to pass you? Because you never know if they are drunk, adjusting their stereo, picking up the CD they just dropped, or talking on their phone and not paying attention to the road.
We do this everyday and not think twice about what can happen to us.....

Dont be afraid of dying, be afraid of NOT LIVING!
Keep jumping, be safe and enjoy life!

I think this is a really valid point - there is danger in nearly every activity we undertake and who even feels remotely at risk whilst driving. I find denial is an excellent way of dealing with rational fear. I only worry about it at the DZ long enough to make sure I'm focused on safety - otherwise it's the "never going to happen to me" psyche.

[skyyhi 0]

I am new to this sport as well. I do read the incidents forum a lot. Mainly because I want to know how to avoid certain situations. I can't avoid them all. . .sometimes stuff just happens. . .but I can avoid most. Reading these forums and the incidents forum has made me ask questions of my instructors that perhaps I would not have asked otherwise. . .like demonstrating a flat turn in the hanging harness. . .I probably would have gotten the verbal instruction but it is not the same as building muscle memory for the turn. . .and then I can take the new info, practice it at altitude and be prepared to use it should the need arize.

Anyway, a lot of rambling for saying just this. . .you know how you feel. Either learn from the mistakes of others and reap the benefits of the knowledge and continue jumping. . .or get out, because the fears have outweighed the joy. . .If this happens for me, I will leave the sport without question.

________________________________________
Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ
FGF #6
Darcy

[Synapse 0]

Thanks for all of the info guys, its a lot to think about and is much appreciated. I think I'll be sticking with it, which I had pretty much decided before the post, but just wanted to put is out there to see what others had to say.

Again, Thanks to all.

-syn

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty
nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

[LoudDan 0]

When your its time........ its time. That does not only hold true for death and dying. Educate yourself, learn as much about the sport as you can. Get a good canopy coach, learn the good habits while you are still young in the sport. This is the same advice my first coach gave me.

To me the commradery, the exhileration, the pure serenity of the moment and the knowledge that "WE" do something that most people only dream about in their wildest dreams is what keeps me coming back (and going broke for that matter).

Just my $.02 hope you stick withi bro

Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!!

[nightjumps 1]

I the thread and am glad you've decided to stay. These thoughts are normal. I've trained a lot of folks to jump. Over time, I began to notice a phenomenon which I called, "The Wall."

You remember your first skydive? How much of it did you remember after the dive. 20%, 30%, 50%? As your Instructors were going through the debrief on your first dive, they probably prompted you with questions to help you remember ALL the events that took place.

The brain has a funny way of creating tunnel vision during a "perceived" dangerous state. Not that unlike the car accidents you went to as a Firefighter where those in the crash explained that everything seemed to go in "slow motion." Yet, even though everything is in slow motion, different folks will give you different explanations of the same event - because their brain filters out things. It takes more than one perspective to get the full picture... like when your instructors prompted you with questions.

"The Wall" appears to happen anywhere between 25 and 50 jumps. I "believe" what happens is that those perceptual filters finally become conduits. You used to look at your three rings as a "piece" of the system and accepted it as "part" of the big picture.

Overtime, those perceptual filters broaden and you begin to see everything as a system, rather than as individual components. Using Bloom's "Taxonomy of Learning Stages," as your education level increases, the final stage is the ability to "apply" the application (you learned how to build a network by the numbers, now you can build the network by visualizing the entire system).

In skydiving, now you can visualize the bigger picture and like networks can see the potential failure points. Like networks, you will focus your attention on those failure points until you come to depend on their reliability (you add something new to the network, it becomes the focus of your attention until you "feel" it's running well and won't disable the network).

You developed this "feel" by testing and it became the device's responsibility to prove itself to you on the network. Over time, it "proved" itself as a stable device and you were again able to focus on the big picture.

The same is true for the primary components of skydiving. Confidence in gear, confidence in others, confidence in your freefall, confidence in your canopy and confidence in your landing awareness.

The "Wall" can be overcome in skydiving just as it is with networks. Keep pushing to make it work. Commit to ten more "all about me jumps." Go out by yourself and enjoy. Remove some of the peripheral devices on the system and slowly intergrate them back on the system until you feel comfortable the environment is stable.

In closing, I have suggested overcoming "The Wall" to many students using the "all about me" dive plan. Some chose to do it, others did not.

One of them hit "the wall" at 41 jumps told me she was getting out... I told her about "the wall" and she chose to push past the wall by doing doing ten "all about me" hop-n-pops. Today, she does big-ways, has jumped with the Golden Knights on more than one occasion and has a symphony of awards and is a well-respected Coach.

That's my suggestion... ten more... all about me.

If folks invite you to go with them... just thank them and say, "Ya know, today I'm doing "all about me" solos. Most folks will understand, figure out you want to make a jump, but want to be left alone.

Almost every sunset jump is still an "all about me" skydive. Solo. Get out last... open about 8,000', turn and face the sunset, feel the wind and embrace the silence.

Good Luck

[chuckbrown 0]

Fear is mother nature's way of telling you to pay attention. My experience is that skydiving is just different degrees of fear; the longer the layoff from jumping the greater the degree of anxiety. I'm only really worried about a jump when I'm not worried about the jump -- that's my way of saying pay attention to what you're doing (the Alligator demands respect). Having said that, I think if you look at the incident reports, the overwhelming majority of deaths/injuries are the result of pilot error; people today are getting hurt with fully open canopies above their heads. This means that skydiving is either as safe or as dangerous as you want it to be. Pay attention to the safety fundamentals and you can jump for decades. Disregard them and you increase your chances of serious harm. The BSRs are there for a reason; so that we all can learn from the mistakes of others.

BTW, I know exactly how you feel. I had back-to-back reserve rides before I even got my A license (jumps 18 & 19). I spent about 100-150 jumps with first jump fear, but I knew that skydiving was a mental game and one that I refused to lose.

[benny 0]

Quote

How's this....
Every time you drive your car to work or where ever, and the only thing separating you from the other car coming at you going 65MPH is that little yellow line, you might want to pull over to the side of the road and wait for it to pass you? Because you never know if they are drunk, adjusting their stereo, picking up the CD they just dropped, or talking on their phone and not paying attention to the road.
We do this everyday and not think twice about what can happen to us.....

Dont be afraid of dying, be afraid of NOT LIVING!
Keep jumping, be safe and enjoy life!

The first time I ever drove (mind you I was 12 years old) I did exactly as you suggest. Ha, now think of it not only as that car approaching you a 65 mph, but actually at 130 mph. I freefall slower than this. Now, when I exit the plane I have basically two miles to decide what I need to do. I personally take this over a few hundred feet or less in a car. AS for feelings of fear due to reading the incident reports, my suggestion is stop.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[jaybo 0]

I'm continually pleased with the support skydivers lend one another. Kudos to all.
We all read the incident reports, this forum and question ourselves and our choice of activities. Self preservation is numero uno. I look at the statistics, specifically the pie chart USPA issues and view the huge slice made up of jumpers under good cloth. The writings on the wall and its emphasized in the previous responses.
I've been told "it usually isn't one poor choice that gets you, but a combination of less favorable choices". I forgot to turn my AAD on once and following advice given me, sucked up my machismo and rode the plane down. Plus, I had promised friends I would never jump without one.(Tommy Piras would probably be with us today had he not forgot to turn his on).
Hope your heart keeps you in the sport.

[gremlin 0]

Skydiving is an activity which makes life come alive. Too many people let their lives slip by but due to the risks involved in skydiving I have found it opens my eyes to the world around me.

Try to limit your risks - as has been said above proper packing, decent canopy and an awareness of others around you will massively help.

The risks will still be there but are they worth the excitement, comradship and love which you get out of the sport. If they are then keep jumping and keep enjoying!

I'm drunk, you're drunk, lets go back to mine....

[jumperconway 0]

Today I'm dealing with the fact that a close friend passed away last night after a week and a half on life support from a low turn, downwind accident. I was on the same load and had already landed when the tragedy happened and fortunately I didn't witness it. As a long time jumper told me after it happened, we've all fucked up before and were fortunate enough to walk away with only our pride damaged not necessarily from superior skills , just better luck. The jumper that passed was extremely current with several hundred jumps under a big docile canopy. There may have been several bad decisions that lead to the final fatal mistake. Keep your options always open. Never paint yourself into a corner that you can't get out of safely. Stay current, keep your gear in top shape and deal with it. If it's your turn to go, time over. As is said here often, this is a sport that even though you do everything right, you still may die. The same can happen to you in your car but you probably never think about the risks involved there you just accept it. Fear in skydiving keeps you on your toes. Don't get complacent, keep the fear but don't get bogged down in it. Use it to your advantage and keep on truckin.
Stay safe and jump long,
Conway

[benny 0]

I think this is a wonderful statement which you just made jumper. I'm going to try and keep this in mind always as I progress in this sport. Sorry to hear about your friend.

Blue skies

Benny

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[Synapse 0]

Wow. Very well said. Not many people could have made that analogy with networking. The all about me stuff sounds pretty good too, its nice to know that others have the same issues to some extent. I think I'll be doing a lot more of these jumps from now on.

The insight that you and everyone else have given is invaluable. Its helped me reignite my desire to face the challenge and enjoy the rewards. I can't thank everyone enough. Looks like I'll be going to DeLand next weekend.

Also I'm sorry for the short reply, I would love to put in something more meaningful, but work is keeping me pretty busy today.

-syn

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty
nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

[nightjumps 1]

Quote

I forgot to turn my AAD on once and following advice given me, sucked up my machismo and rode the plane down.

BRAVO, BRAVO!!