firstime 0 #76 April 27, 2004 That is an interesting ?. I do post my jumps only because I have so little (60). I sometimes will read a thread that involves jumpers with 1,2,or 3K jumps and I am reluctant to respond, yet I have had some serious situations in my short time that I would like to share but I don't . I just read these forums and will get what I am looking for rather than post. These forums have given me a tremendous amount of info which I always discuss with all @ the DZ, with an overwhelming majority. I have landed off 4 times, had 4 bad line twist (2 near chop) and I still dont feel qualified to converse with the 1000 or so jumpers, These mishaps were my own fault and I am glad that I am here to post them. I am getting off the subject... I don't care about your jump#'s... If you give me a liitle "smigget" bit of advice for me to have a beer @ the end the day. "YES IN DEEDY" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VanillaSkyGirl 6 #77 April 27, 2004 Quote5) Some don't want to be perceived as a know-it-all or don't know shit. I think that this is the main answer with people not wanting to post jump numbers, but I don't think that people recognize themselves as either a "know-it-all" or a "don't know shit". For the record, I think new skydivers ARE able to ask questions without getting attacked for being a "newbie". It seems that people are "attacked" as not knowing anything, generally, (not always) when the newbie appears to not want to recognize themselves as being a "newbie". There are some people who seem to have a difficult time seeing themselves as being under-experienced in anything. Also, I agree with Ron that some (maybe many or most) skydivers think of themselves as better than the norm or "special". The more experienced skydivers have seen this attitude often end in disaster, thus the strict warnings against this way of thinking. As a new skydiver, I am not offended by the comments of the more experienced skydivers that newbies are not experienced enough to give instructional skydiving advice to new skydivers. If people are not humble and open to learning, then true progression is difficult. People can first listen to advice with open minds as a "grasshopper" and then make their own decisions from there. One day, after much experience, us newbies will become the "experienced" skydivers, and we, too, can teach the newbies. Why rush it? Btw, this post is not written about or to anyone in particular, so I hope that nobody takes offense to it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #78 April 27, 2004 Quotebut I don't think that people recognize themselves as either a "know-it-all" or a "don't know shit". I dont know nuffin bout nuffin... I use an RSL...I have a Cypres in both my rigs.. but have NO DESIRE at all to join Team Cypres. And I attempt to steer clear of all know it all canopy nazi's... now on the other hand if someone can teach me a better way to fly my canopy I certainly will listen. If Andy Farrington gives me a hint or two.. or Luke Aikins...DUDE I am so there and listening.If I EVER get to the point of sounding like a canopy nazi sky god I hope to gawd someone will come pour a LITE BEER over my head to bring me back to reality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Frenchy68 0 #79 April 27, 2004 In my experience, I second what Aggie D. wrote. I see newbies getting slammed for asking the wrong questions on DZ.com, but have NEVER been slammed for asking questions at my DZ to an experienced skydiver or instructor. One on one is crucial when dealing with issues that could be mis-interpreted and could cost someone his/her/someone else's life. Besides, the rite of passage for a newbie is to get spanked by Ron at least once! My ass already hurts... Blue skies to all, and props to Ron for being Ron! Nick "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VanillaSkyGirl 6 #80 April 27, 2004 QuoteBesides, the rite of passage for a newbie is to get spanked by Ron at least ones! My ass already hurts... Jesus...I have never been slammed by Ron, I don't think. Have I missed out on this rite of passage? Lol. As a matter of fact, I think that Ron once even answered questions and PMed a very helpful response to a tunnel question before I ever went. Seriously, I do not remember having a problem when asking a question as a newbie online or in person. I have had countless helpful PMs in response to any questions that have ever arisen for me. Nobody ever made me feel stupid or told me to shut up. I was often encouraged to ask for more help anytime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Frenchy68 0 #81 April 27, 2004 I totaly agree with you. But the key word is "PM", which implies that it is meant for you only. And I agree with that. One case at a time... Cheers, Nick "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Fast 0 #82 April 27, 2004 QuoteQuoteDo you really think that it is fair to generalize and say that everyone who doesn't post the number of jumps they have in their profile is that type of person? Fair? No, but life is not fair. Most times is it accurate? Yes. Most times it is a correct assumption. QuoteDo you really think that every skydiver thinks that they are better than the norm regardless of what they post or if they have ever been to DZ.com? Every skydiver? No. But most, yes. And age, sex and currency also play factors. But if you don't care enough to disclose some very easy to give information, why should I care to treat you any differently? Man the internet is a really cool thing. It has this way of just drawing people into these types of debates... Oh well, I will save that for another thread. One thing that I enjoy though is the discussion and argument that life isn't fair. I would have to agree with that in a general sense. I suppose this depends on beliefs about other things, karma, whatever... Point is, when discussing a topic such as this one my asking if it is "fair to generalize" doesn't imply that I am talking about how it is. I already knew thats how it was, I guess I was asking if you ought to take a stereotypical approach with everyone that you talk to or in the case of these forums reply to. I can understand the inability to gain a firm understanding of a persons real skill level over the internet, I mean you haven't ever met them or seen them jump so you have to make some assumptions. To me, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think that every person that comes on here with 10, 30, 50, 100 jumps, or whatever number of jumps constitutes not knowing anything, is a person that "thinks they are better than they really are." Maybe I am just being naive to think that there are still people left that are honest with themselves and others. I don't know, people have always told me that I all to often accept what people are saying with less skepticism than I should truly have, so maybe things are really that bad and I am just not seeing it. I personally will be the first to admit that I am not very experienced, I guess when it comes down to it I am pretty hard on myself. I guess I just don't have the desire to show off and make people think I am cool. Don't get me wrong, I want to be good, if I could afford to jump and jump and jump, I would. From this I made the assumption that there might be more people out there like me. I know I suck, I mean come on I don't even have 100 jumps. I would say I am somewhere right in the middle. Average. I would also say that most people are (hence the term average). You have a few people who are really good, and a few who are well below the average level, a good deal of which I'm sure quit when they realize this, but for the most part everyone is right in the middle. The other thing that rattles my chains is what is needed before a person will be taken seriously. Ok, so... If I post that I have 72 jumps and make sure that I am updating that to within a reasonable level of where I am you will take me seriously? But if I don't and I leave it how it is right now then anything I am saying is not even worth reading? Or am I just being placed in with the rest of the bunch because I don't have that number posted? Or are you trying to send a message to all the other new people out there that you shouldn't take anyone who doesn't post their jump numbers seriously? I think that everyone who speaks up about any subject wants to have their opinion heard and discussed by other people. If they didn't what would be the point of bringing it up in the first place. The more that new jumpers get brushed off or just told "how it is" the less people will care to ask questions. They know that when they ask a question they won't be given the time of day to get a real explanation, so they just don't ask and to me that sucks. I do understand that there are quite a few people out there who think that they are the top dog, best ever at X jumps, whatever. Considering the above you honestly think its fair (neigh, ought to be the case) that every person who posts on here, or you meet in person should be immediately considered to be one of the people who thinks they are "all that"? I will extend you the benefit of the doubt by saying that it is clear in most things, not just skydiving, that it is difficult to judge your own skill level and progress without some kind of outside scale. As for the comment that is buried somewhere in this thread or another, about a person "not being qualified" to have an opinion about something... I just don't get that. To me, at least, I view anyone who is alive, and capable of thought to be qualified to form an opinion about something. All an opinion really contains is a persons thoughts about a subject. Having an opinion has nothing to do with being qualified to answer a persons question or offer advice on what the best course of action is. Maybe its just semantics but its one that sticks out to me. I want to point out that I hold a great deal of respect for all those who have the experience in this sport that I do not have. I respect all of you for the things you have accomplished and the lessons that you have learned, and in doing so will save me from having to learn the hard way. p.s. I spent a good 20 minutes deciding what I really wanted to say here before I came to the conclusion that this was taking up too much of my time and just hit post.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tattoojeff 0 #83 April 27, 2004 yeah this has gotten alittle out of control lol. i have some q's for ya WW. for staters youve just said why you dont post jump #'s but right next to your smiling face is your jump #'s. now your saying that number is fake? why bro. ive seen you fly your damn good and if anything i have more resect for your ability knowing the truth about your jump #'s!!!! my purpose of this thread was not about constantly updating your #'s. it was about people leaving it blank. too bad it had to get all heated i think ron thrives on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tattoojeff 0 #84 April 27, 2004 i also dont think its cool to generalize all of you who dont post #. thats why i asked to understand all the different reasons. which there are. i disaagree with ron about all of you thinking your better thAN you actually are. thats bullshit. some probably, most i doubt it, all gimme a break. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Fast 0 #85 April 27, 2004 QuoteThat is an interesting ?. I do post my jumps only because I have so little (60). I sometimes will read a thread that involves jumpers with 1,2,or 3K jumps and I am reluctant to respond, yet I have had some serious situations in my short time that I would like to share but I don't . I just read these forums and will get what I am looking for rather than post. These forums have given me a tremendous amount of info which I always discuss with all @ the DZ, with an overwhelming majority. I have landed off 4 times, had 4 bad line twist (2 near chop) and I still dont feel qualified to converse with the 1000 or so jumpers, These mishaps were my own fault and I am glad that I am here to post them. I am getting off the subject... I don't care about your jump#'s... If you give me a liitle "smigget" bit of advice for me to have a beer @ the end the day. "YES IN DEEDY" I don't think that anyone should feel like they are not "qualified" to talk with another person. The people who have *k jumps are just like the rest of us, except they have more experience (which we need to learn from). If you never ask questions of these guys someday we will lose the insight that they have to offer.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shark 0 #86 April 27, 2004 First off, this is the Internet and I couldn't care less if people post their experience/jump numbers. The question is if they are trying to get on a "popular" skydive do they fudge their numbers/experience just to participate? Is it safe to do so? To some degree I concur with Billvon and Ron. Giving erroneous or misleading advice can be fatal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shark 0 #87 April 27, 2004 QuoteI know one of my friends who will out fly many of my instructors and he only has 200 jumps.. Wow, and you could tell after one jump with me? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #88 April 27, 2004 Quote The question is if they are trying to get on a "popular" skydive do they fudge their numbers/experience just to participate? Is it safe to do so? "Safe" is always hard to measure, but it certainly shows a lack of respect and concern for the well being of the others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shark 0 #89 April 27, 2004 QuoteQuote The question is if they are trying to get on a "popular" skydive do they fudge their numbers/experience just to participate? Is it safe to do so? "Safe" is always hard to measure, but it certainly shows a lack of respect and concern for the well being of the others. Someone with 40 jumps shouldn't be on a 40 way. That's not too hard to measure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #90 April 27, 2004 Quote That attitude comes from experience. The longer your in the sport, you'll have people with low jump numbers ask you questions about stuff like that, just out of curiosity. All it takes is a couple of those folks going out and trying it even though they asked for "curiosity" and then you will understand. It's still a crappy attitude. If you're going to assume the worst intent in people's questions, wouldn't it be better just to not reply (save to correct bad advice)? A perfectly valid reason to ask about camera flying is to identify the skills/risks one doesn't know about, and to thus be able to work on that over the XX jumps suggested. If the answer is instead, "don't be an idiot, newbie," you've really given them no [stated] reason to think they can't do it. Knowledge is power. *Maybe* at the training level I'm at it is useful to withhold information to simplify it. But after that, if you're going to make the effort to reply in some manner, why not be productive? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #91 April 27, 2004 QuoteBecasue they all like to think they are better than the number of jumps they have done, a nd want to be listened to. You see now I'm the complete oppoite of that. I belwive I don't jump anywhere near as good as many people with fewer jumps than me. I jumps with some people who have 100 jumps les than i do and they seem to be much better in the air than i am. But I'm learning that the race is LOOONG if i let it be. (I'm used to being a man in a hurry to go nowhere)You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #92 April 27, 2004 Quoteyeah this has gotten alittle out of control lol. i have some q's for ya WW. for staters youve just said why you dont post jump #'s but right next to your smiling face is your jump #'s. now your saying that number is fake? why bro. ive seen you fly your damn good and if anything i have more resect for your ability knowing the truth about your jump #'s!!!! my purpose of this thread was not about constantly updating your #'s. it was about people leaving it blank. too bad it had to get all heated i think ron thrives on it. No it doesn't have my jump numbers, it just says "less than 1000". To me and I'm sure to everyone else I'm sure thats the same as not posting them. Thanks for the compliment dude, I appreciate it. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #93 April 27, 2004 Quote Besides his only reason for not including jump numbers is his ego....Wanting to be taken more seriously than his jump numbers indicate.... Thats the wrong reason. You may be right, and I agree, I only have 400+ openings, canopy flights, landings, etc. which on that point you are totally correct. I'm a conservative canopy pilot, not a swooper, don't do hook turns and such because of my low jump numbers. I'm not saying I'm better than my jump numbers, I'm simply saying I've had lots of training in freefly specifically along with tunnel time and massive coaching. But that's ONLY in freefly, the rest of my stuff I'm either at my jump numbers (canopy skills) or under them (RW). IMO talent has nothing to do with it, it's only an amount of training/coaching any person could have, so it's not my ego I'm afraid of hurting. Let's say a person had say.......100 hours of tunnel time but only 50 jumps. This person would be shit under canopy but would be a great flyer for sure. If they only posted that they had 50 jumps, wouldn't you rip them a new one for trying to give advice on freefly or RW? One of the guys who gave me tunnel coaching had tons of hours, but only 30 jumps. Does that make him a bad flyer in freefall? At first glance on a profile it would. He'd give people advice and they'd all think he was a hothead newbie when in fact he'd be a good source of info. Edited to add: I now show my jump numbers. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #94 April 27, 2004 QuoteOkay, so you have the experience to advise someone on freeflying, but there is a huge difference when it comes to other parts of the skydive. You're very right. This is the reason I only ask for advice in the canopy forum and never give it. Well, lemme rephrase that, I do take the time to occasionally join in on the harsh talks toward 50-100 jump swoopers, does that count? And I don't even think I've ever visited the RW forum....wait no I went there once to see what kind of threads they run there. I'm so behind....... Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sdgregory 0 #95 April 27, 2004 yeah what she said . . . Couldn't have said it better myself, Rosa. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #96 April 27, 2004 QuoteBesides, the rite of passage for a newbie is to get spanked by Ron at least once! My ass already hurts... If you were female I would be all happy right now. As it was...Oh well. One thing you will see is I only "Spank" someone not when the aska question....But when they don't listen to the answer. My pet peave is someone saying "Well you don't know me so you can't say"...True I may not know that person, but I have known hudereds of people that have been in that same situation to include myself. So I do know what could, and what most likley will happen. And when you think about it success at skydiving is more than medals it is judged by survival. So the cost of not listening could very well be death. QuoteBlue skies to all, and props to Ron for being Ron! I feel all warm and fuzzy...If you were female it would be better. Oh well...."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #97 April 27, 2004 QuoteJesus...I have never been slammed by Ron, I don't think. Thats cause when you ask a question you really want to know, and you listen to the answer. You don't ask me if its OK at 10 jumps to jump a camera wanting me to say it is OK. And when I say its a bad idea you don't try to defend why you should be allowed. A lot of people on here ask questions and they already know the answer they want, and are trying to get justification to back the stance they already have. So they ask "Can I jump a Stiletto 97 at 1.5 at 100 jumps?" And I say "Hell no!" Then they say that I don't know them and they once in the third grade built a paper airplane so they know all about flying and I am trying to hold them back. Then someone else tells them its a good idea...That being the answer they wanted they now go and buy that means for their destruction. Now if I ever meet you,I would be honored to spank you"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #98 April 27, 2004 Quote have landed off 4 times, had 4 bad line twist (2 near chop) and I still dont feel qualified to converse with the 1000 or so jumpers You are more qualified to discuss those things than a guy that has 1,000 jumps and has never had any of those things happen. But the key word is QUALIFIED...Some people think they are qualified when they are not. And that is the issue."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Michele 1 #99 April 27, 2004 Quotemy purpose of this thread was not about constantly updating your #'s. it was about people leaving it blank. There was once a post where I related an experience. Didn't give any advice, just showed a series of experiences. Someone came on and slammed me for giving advice, and used jump numbers to do it. Except I wasn't giving advice...simply sharing what had happened to me. So I decided that it wasn't helpful to include my jump numbers. People know they're low, anyway. LOL! Ron, I do respect you. I know you have more knowledge in your little finger than I do in my whole head about skydiving. What bothers me, honestly, is a regular "Don't you Even Dare question me" attitude. That leaves no room for the understanding of why it is the way it is. There was a situation in my city this week...a billboard went up, and it was "offensive." But 99.99% of the population didn't care about it - realized it was promoting a website. There was a very small, very vocal minority that created enough of a stir to bring the billboard down. Subsequently, there was a ton of media about it, and it seemed to be a much larger protest than the few who yelled and screamed and carried on (which of course brought more publicity to the website....LOL). You would've thought there was rioting in the street if you didn't know. I think sometimes people here are like that. You'd think everyone is downsizing too fast, or handing out bad advice right and left. Not everyone does that, though...I don't even think most do. Maybe some are most vocal about it, but often, questions are asked just to be asked... Ron, you used my real estate expertise as a balance. Sure, I expect you to listen. People do listen to you, too. But honestly, sometimes you're over the top...if all I ever explained to the people who are asking me questions is "because I said so", they have absolutely no understanding as to why, and then they can't take that information and make independent, accurate decisions. Like I said earlier, this is a sport we can't stop and ask for help if we run into a problem. We need to be fully geared towards handling things before we leave the plane...and that's where a base of information comes in handy. And a good understanding of why this is that way, and why that is this way, will benefit someone when they face a situation where they can't stop to ask for help. Anyway, the reason I don't post numbers was given above. Ciels - Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VanillaSkyGirl 6 #100 April 27, 2004 QuoteJesus...I have never been slammed by Ron, I don't think. Thats cause when you ask a question you really want to know, and you listen to the answer. Thank you, Ron. Like I said, I have never found your posts offensive. You are speaking to us based on your experience, and I appreciate that. Trust me, I always make up my mind to do what I think is best based on ALL the answers that I get to certain questions that I may have. I do think that as a new skydiver, I have to first be open-minded to learning from experienced jumpers and experiencing certain situations myself before I can claim to know all the answers. QuoteNow if I ever meet you,I would be honored to spank you Lol...I said that I had never been "slammed" by Ron, not spanked. Well, I am sure that we will eventually meet, so I guess that I will just have to watch my...um..."back". Thanks again, Ron! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 4 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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Amazon 7 #78 April 27, 2004 Quotebut I don't think that people recognize themselves as either a "know-it-all" or a "don't know shit". I dont know nuffin bout nuffin... I use an RSL...I have a Cypres in both my rigs.. but have NO DESIRE at all to join Team Cypres. And I attempt to steer clear of all know it all canopy nazi's... now on the other hand if someone can teach me a better way to fly my canopy I certainly will listen. If Andy Farrington gives me a hint or two.. or Luke Aikins...DUDE I am so there and listening.If I EVER get to the point of sounding like a canopy nazi sky god I hope to gawd someone will come pour a LITE BEER over my head to bring me back to reality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #79 April 27, 2004 In my experience, I second what Aggie D. wrote. I see newbies getting slammed for asking the wrong questions on DZ.com, but have NEVER been slammed for asking questions at my DZ to an experienced skydiver or instructor. One on one is crucial when dealing with issues that could be mis-interpreted and could cost someone his/her/someone else's life. Besides, the rite of passage for a newbie is to get spanked by Ron at least once! My ass already hurts... Blue skies to all, and props to Ron for being Ron! Nick "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VanillaSkyGirl 6 #80 April 27, 2004 QuoteBesides, the rite of passage for a newbie is to get spanked by Ron at least ones! My ass already hurts... Jesus...I have never been slammed by Ron, I don't think. Have I missed out on this rite of passage? Lol. As a matter of fact, I think that Ron once even answered questions and PMed a very helpful response to a tunnel question before I ever went. Seriously, I do not remember having a problem when asking a question as a newbie online or in person. I have had countless helpful PMs in response to any questions that have ever arisen for me. Nobody ever made me feel stupid or told me to shut up. I was often encouraged to ask for more help anytime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Frenchy68 0 #81 April 27, 2004 I totaly agree with you. But the key word is "PM", which implies that it is meant for you only. And I agree with that. One case at a time... Cheers, Nick "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Fast 0 #82 April 27, 2004 QuoteQuoteDo you really think that it is fair to generalize and say that everyone who doesn't post the number of jumps they have in their profile is that type of person? Fair? No, but life is not fair. Most times is it accurate? Yes. Most times it is a correct assumption. QuoteDo you really think that every skydiver thinks that they are better than the norm regardless of what they post or if they have ever been to DZ.com? Every skydiver? No. But most, yes. And age, sex and currency also play factors. But if you don't care enough to disclose some very easy to give information, why should I care to treat you any differently? Man the internet is a really cool thing. It has this way of just drawing people into these types of debates... Oh well, I will save that for another thread. One thing that I enjoy though is the discussion and argument that life isn't fair. I would have to agree with that in a general sense. I suppose this depends on beliefs about other things, karma, whatever... Point is, when discussing a topic such as this one my asking if it is "fair to generalize" doesn't imply that I am talking about how it is. I already knew thats how it was, I guess I was asking if you ought to take a stereotypical approach with everyone that you talk to or in the case of these forums reply to. I can understand the inability to gain a firm understanding of a persons real skill level over the internet, I mean you haven't ever met them or seen them jump so you have to make some assumptions. To me, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think that every person that comes on here with 10, 30, 50, 100 jumps, or whatever number of jumps constitutes not knowing anything, is a person that "thinks they are better than they really are." Maybe I am just being naive to think that there are still people left that are honest with themselves and others. I don't know, people have always told me that I all to often accept what people are saying with less skepticism than I should truly have, so maybe things are really that bad and I am just not seeing it. I personally will be the first to admit that I am not very experienced, I guess when it comes down to it I am pretty hard on myself. I guess I just don't have the desire to show off and make people think I am cool. Don't get me wrong, I want to be good, if I could afford to jump and jump and jump, I would. From this I made the assumption that there might be more people out there like me. I know I suck, I mean come on I don't even have 100 jumps. I would say I am somewhere right in the middle. Average. I would also say that most people are (hence the term average). You have a few people who are really good, and a few who are well below the average level, a good deal of which I'm sure quit when they realize this, but for the most part everyone is right in the middle. The other thing that rattles my chains is what is needed before a person will be taken seriously. Ok, so... If I post that I have 72 jumps and make sure that I am updating that to within a reasonable level of where I am you will take me seriously? But if I don't and I leave it how it is right now then anything I am saying is not even worth reading? Or am I just being placed in with the rest of the bunch because I don't have that number posted? Or are you trying to send a message to all the other new people out there that you shouldn't take anyone who doesn't post their jump numbers seriously? I think that everyone who speaks up about any subject wants to have their opinion heard and discussed by other people. If they didn't what would be the point of bringing it up in the first place. The more that new jumpers get brushed off or just told "how it is" the less people will care to ask questions. They know that when they ask a question they won't be given the time of day to get a real explanation, so they just don't ask and to me that sucks. I do understand that there are quite a few people out there who think that they are the top dog, best ever at X jumps, whatever. Considering the above you honestly think its fair (neigh, ought to be the case) that every person who posts on here, or you meet in person should be immediately considered to be one of the people who thinks they are "all that"? I will extend you the benefit of the doubt by saying that it is clear in most things, not just skydiving, that it is difficult to judge your own skill level and progress without some kind of outside scale. As for the comment that is buried somewhere in this thread or another, about a person "not being qualified" to have an opinion about something... I just don't get that. To me, at least, I view anyone who is alive, and capable of thought to be qualified to form an opinion about something. All an opinion really contains is a persons thoughts about a subject. Having an opinion has nothing to do with being qualified to answer a persons question or offer advice on what the best course of action is. Maybe its just semantics but its one that sticks out to me. I want to point out that I hold a great deal of respect for all those who have the experience in this sport that I do not have. I respect all of you for the things you have accomplished and the lessons that you have learned, and in doing so will save me from having to learn the hard way. p.s. I spent a good 20 minutes deciding what I really wanted to say here before I came to the conclusion that this was taking up too much of my time and just hit post.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tattoojeff 0 #83 April 27, 2004 yeah this has gotten alittle out of control lol. i have some q's for ya WW. for staters youve just said why you dont post jump #'s but right next to your smiling face is your jump #'s. now your saying that number is fake? why bro. ive seen you fly your damn good and if anything i have more resect for your ability knowing the truth about your jump #'s!!!! my purpose of this thread was not about constantly updating your #'s. it was about people leaving it blank. too bad it had to get all heated i think ron thrives on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tattoojeff 0 #84 April 27, 2004 i also dont think its cool to generalize all of you who dont post #. thats why i asked to understand all the different reasons. which there are. i disaagree with ron about all of you thinking your better thAN you actually are. thats bullshit. some probably, most i doubt it, all gimme a break. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Fast 0 #85 April 27, 2004 QuoteThat is an interesting ?. I do post my jumps only because I have so little (60). I sometimes will read a thread that involves jumpers with 1,2,or 3K jumps and I am reluctant to respond, yet I have had some serious situations in my short time that I would like to share but I don't . I just read these forums and will get what I am looking for rather than post. These forums have given me a tremendous amount of info which I always discuss with all @ the DZ, with an overwhelming majority. I have landed off 4 times, had 4 bad line twist (2 near chop) and I still dont feel qualified to converse with the 1000 or so jumpers, These mishaps were my own fault and I am glad that I am here to post them. I am getting off the subject... I don't care about your jump#'s... If you give me a liitle "smigget" bit of advice for me to have a beer @ the end the day. "YES IN DEEDY" I don't think that anyone should feel like they are not "qualified" to talk with another person. The people who have *k jumps are just like the rest of us, except they have more experience (which we need to learn from). If you never ask questions of these guys someday we will lose the insight that they have to offer.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shark 0 #86 April 27, 2004 First off, this is the Internet and I couldn't care less if people post their experience/jump numbers. The question is if they are trying to get on a "popular" skydive do they fudge their numbers/experience just to participate? Is it safe to do so? To some degree I concur with Billvon and Ron. Giving erroneous or misleading advice can be fatal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shark 0 #87 April 27, 2004 QuoteI know one of my friends who will out fly many of my instructors and he only has 200 jumps.. Wow, and you could tell after one jump with me? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #88 April 27, 2004 Quote The question is if they are trying to get on a "popular" skydive do they fudge their numbers/experience just to participate? Is it safe to do so? "Safe" is always hard to measure, but it certainly shows a lack of respect and concern for the well being of the others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shark 0 #89 April 27, 2004 QuoteQuote The question is if they are trying to get on a "popular" skydive do they fudge their numbers/experience just to participate? Is it safe to do so? "Safe" is always hard to measure, but it certainly shows a lack of respect and concern for the well being of the others. Someone with 40 jumps shouldn't be on a 40 way. That's not too hard to measure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #90 April 27, 2004 Quote That attitude comes from experience. The longer your in the sport, you'll have people with low jump numbers ask you questions about stuff like that, just out of curiosity. All it takes is a couple of those folks going out and trying it even though they asked for "curiosity" and then you will understand. It's still a crappy attitude. If you're going to assume the worst intent in people's questions, wouldn't it be better just to not reply (save to correct bad advice)? A perfectly valid reason to ask about camera flying is to identify the skills/risks one doesn't know about, and to thus be able to work on that over the XX jumps suggested. If the answer is instead, "don't be an idiot, newbie," you've really given them no [stated] reason to think they can't do it. Knowledge is power. *Maybe* at the training level I'm at it is useful to withhold information to simplify it. But after that, if you're going to make the effort to reply in some manner, why not be productive? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #91 April 27, 2004 QuoteBecasue they all like to think they are better than the number of jumps they have done, a nd want to be listened to. You see now I'm the complete oppoite of that. I belwive I don't jump anywhere near as good as many people with fewer jumps than me. I jumps with some people who have 100 jumps les than i do and they seem to be much better in the air than i am. But I'm learning that the race is LOOONG if i let it be. (I'm used to being a man in a hurry to go nowhere)You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #92 April 27, 2004 Quoteyeah this has gotten alittle out of control lol. i have some q's for ya WW. for staters youve just said why you dont post jump #'s but right next to your smiling face is your jump #'s. now your saying that number is fake? why bro. ive seen you fly your damn good and if anything i have more resect for your ability knowing the truth about your jump #'s!!!! my purpose of this thread was not about constantly updating your #'s. it was about people leaving it blank. too bad it had to get all heated i think ron thrives on it. No it doesn't have my jump numbers, it just says "less than 1000". To me and I'm sure to everyone else I'm sure thats the same as not posting them. Thanks for the compliment dude, I appreciate it. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #93 April 27, 2004 Quote Besides his only reason for not including jump numbers is his ego....Wanting to be taken more seriously than his jump numbers indicate.... Thats the wrong reason. You may be right, and I agree, I only have 400+ openings, canopy flights, landings, etc. which on that point you are totally correct. I'm a conservative canopy pilot, not a swooper, don't do hook turns and such because of my low jump numbers. I'm not saying I'm better than my jump numbers, I'm simply saying I've had lots of training in freefly specifically along with tunnel time and massive coaching. But that's ONLY in freefly, the rest of my stuff I'm either at my jump numbers (canopy skills) or under them (RW). IMO talent has nothing to do with it, it's only an amount of training/coaching any person could have, so it's not my ego I'm afraid of hurting. Let's say a person had say.......100 hours of tunnel time but only 50 jumps. This person would be shit under canopy but would be a great flyer for sure. If they only posted that they had 50 jumps, wouldn't you rip them a new one for trying to give advice on freefly or RW? One of the guys who gave me tunnel coaching had tons of hours, but only 30 jumps. Does that make him a bad flyer in freefall? At first glance on a profile it would. He'd give people advice and they'd all think he was a hothead newbie when in fact he'd be a good source of info. Edited to add: I now show my jump numbers. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #94 April 27, 2004 QuoteOkay, so you have the experience to advise someone on freeflying, but there is a huge difference when it comes to other parts of the skydive. You're very right. This is the reason I only ask for advice in the canopy forum and never give it. Well, lemme rephrase that, I do take the time to occasionally join in on the harsh talks toward 50-100 jump swoopers, does that count? And I don't even think I've ever visited the RW forum....wait no I went there once to see what kind of threads they run there. I'm so behind....... Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sdgregory 0 #95 April 27, 2004 yeah what she said . . . Couldn't have said it better myself, Rosa. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #96 April 27, 2004 QuoteBesides, the rite of passage for a newbie is to get spanked by Ron at least once! My ass already hurts... If you were female I would be all happy right now. As it was...Oh well. One thing you will see is I only "Spank" someone not when the aska question....But when they don't listen to the answer. My pet peave is someone saying "Well you don't know me so you can't say"...True I may not know that person, but I have known hudereds of people that have been in that same situation to include myself. So I do know what could, and what most likley will happen. And when you think about it success at skydiving is more than medals it is judged by survival. So the cost of not listening could very well be death. QuoteBlue skies to all, and props to Ron for being Ron! I feel all warm and fuzzy...If you were female it would be better. Oh well...."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #97 April 27, 2004 QuoteJesus...I have never been slammed by Ron, I don't think. Thats cause when you ask a question you really want to know, and you listen to the answer. You don't ask me if its OK at 10 jumps to jump a camera wanting me to say it is OK. And when I say its a bad idea you don't try to defend why you should be allowed. A lot of people on here ask questions and they already know the answer they want, and are trying to get justification to back the stance they already have. So they ask "Can I jump a Stiletto 97 at 1.5 at 100 jumps?" And I say "Hell no!" Then they say that I don't know them and they once in the third grade built a paper airplane so they know all about flying and I am trying to hold them back. Then someone else tells them its a good idea...That being the answer they wanted they now go and buy that means for their destruction. Now if I ever meet you,I would be honored to spank you"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #98 April 27, 2004 Quote have landed off 4 times, had 4 bad line twist (2 near chop) and I still dont feel qualified to converse with the 1000 or so jumpers You are more qualified to discuss those things than a guy that has 1,000 jumps and has never had any of those things happen. But the key word is QUALIFIED...Some people think they are qualified when they are not. And that is the issue."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Michele 1 #99 April 27, 2004 Quotemy purpose of this thread was not about constantly updating your #'s. it was about people leaving it blank. There was once a post where I related an experience. Didn't give any advice, just showed a series of experiences. Someone came on and slammed me for giving advice, and used jump numbers to do it. Except I wasn't giving advice...simply sharing what had happened to me. So I decided that it wasn't helpful to include my jump numbers. People know they're low, anyway. LOL! Ron, I do respect you. I know you have more knowledge in your little finger than I do in my whole head about skydiving. What bothers me, honestly, is a regular "Don't you Even Dare question me" attitude. That leaves no room for the understanding of why it is the way it is. There was a situation in my city this week...a billboard went up, and it was "offensive." But 99.99% of the population didn't care about it - realized it was promoting a website. There was a very small, very vocal minority that created enough of a stir to bring the billboard down. Subsequently, there was a ton of media about it, and it seemed to be a much larger protest than the few who yelled and screamed and carried on (which of course brought more publicity to the website....LOL). You would've thought there was rioting in the street if you didn't know. I think sometimes people here are like that. You'd think everyone is downsizing too fast, or handing out bad advice right and left. Not everyone does that, though...I don't even think most do. Maybe some are most vocal about it, but often, questions are asked just to be asked... Ron, you used my real estate expertise as a balance. Sure, I expect you to listen. People do listen to you, too. But honestly, sometimes you're over the top...if all I ever explained to the people who are asking me questions is "because I said so", they have absolutely no understanding as to why, and then they can't take that information and make independent, accurate decisions. Like I said earlier, this is a sport we can't stop and ask for help if we run into a problem. We need to be fully geared towards handling things before we leave the plane...and that's where a base of information comes in handy. And a good understanding of why this is that way, and why that is this way, will benefit someone when they face a situation where they can't stop to ask for help. Anyway, the reason I don't post numbers was given above. Ciels - Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VanillaSkyGirl 6 #100 April 27, 2004 QuoteJesus...I have never been slammed by Ron, I don't think. Thats cause when you ask a question you really want to know, and you listen to the answer. Thank you, Ron. Like I said, I have never found your posts offensive. You are speaking to us based on your experience, and I appreciate that. Trust me, I always make up my mind to do what I think is best based on ALL the answers that I get to certain questions that I may have. I do think that as a new skydiver, I have to first be open-minded to learning from experienced jumpers and experiencing certain situations myself before I can claim to know all the answers. QuoteNow if I ever meet you,I would be honored to spank you Lol...I said that I had never been "slammed" by Ron, not spanked. Well, I am sure that we will eventually meet, so I guess that I will just have to watch my...um..."back". Thanks again, Ron! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 4 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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Frenchy68 0 #81 April 27, 2004 I totaly agree with you. But the key word is "PM", which implies that it is meant for you only. And I agree with that. One case at a time... Cheers, Nick "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #82 April 27, 2004 QuoteQuoteDo you really think that it is fair to generalize and say that everyone who doesn't post the number of jumps they have in their profile is that type of person? Fair? No, but life is not fair. Most times is it accurate? Yes. Most times it is a correct assumption. QuoteDo you really think that every skydiver thinks that they are better than the norm regardless of what they post or if they have ever been to DZ.com? Every skydiver? No. But most, yes. And age, sex and currency also play factors. But if you don't care enough to disclose some very easy to give information, why should I care to treat you any differently? Man the internet is a really cool thing. It has this way of just drawing people into these types of debates... Oh well, I will save that for another thread. One thing that I enjoy though is the discussion and argument that life isn't fair. I would have to agree with that in a general sense. I suppose this depends on beliefs about other things, karma, whatever... Point is, when discussing a topic such as this one my asking if it is "fair to generalize" doesn't imply that I am talking about how it is. I already knew thats how it was, I guess I was asking if you ought to take a stereotypical approach with everyone that you talk to or in the case of these forums reply to. I can understand the inability to gain a firm understanding of a persons real skill level over the internet, I mean you haven't ever met them or seen them jump so you have to make some assumptions. To me, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think that every person that comes on here with 10, 30, 50, 100 jumps, or whatever number of jumps constitutes not knowing anything, is a person that "thinks they are better than they really are." Maybe I am just being naive to think that there are still people left that are honest with themselves and others. I don't know, people have always told me that I all to often accept what people are saying with less skepticism than I should truly have, so maybe things are really that bad and I am just not seeing it. I personally will be the first to admit that I am not very experienced, I guess when it comes down to it I am pretty hard on myself. I guess I just don't have the desire to show off and make people think I am cool. Don't get me wrong, I want to be good, if I could afford to jump and jump and jump, I would. From this I made the assumption that there might be more people out there like me. I know I suck, I mean come on I don't even have 100 jumps. I would say I am somewhere right in the middle. Average. I would also say that most people are (hence the term average). You have a few people who are really good, and a few who are well below the average level, a good deal of which I'm sure quit when they realize this, but for the most part everyone is right in the middle. The other thing that rattles my chains is what is needed before a person will be taken seriously. Ok, so... If I post that I have 72 jumps and make sure that I am updating that to within a reasonable level of where I am you will take me seriously? But if I don't and I leave it how it is right now then anything I am saying is not even worth reading? Or am I just being placed in with the rest of the bunch because I don't have that number posted? Or are you trying to send a message to all the other new people out there that you shouldn't take anyone who doesn't post their jump numbers seriously? I think that everyone who speaks up about any subject wants to have their opinion heard and discussed by other people. If they didn't what would be the point of bringing it up in the first place. The more that new jumpers get brushed off or just told "how it is" the less people will care to ask questions. They know that when they ask a question they won't be given the time of day to get a real explanation, so they just don't ask and to me that sucks. I do understand that there are quite a few people out there who think that they are the top dog, best ever at X jumps, whatever. Considering the above you honestly think its fair (neigh, ought to be the case) that every person who posts on here, or you meet in person should be immediately considered to be one of the people who thinks they are "all that"? I will extend you the benefit of the doubt by saying that it is clear in most things, not just skydiving, that it is difficult to judge your own skill level and progress without some kind of outside scale. As for the comment that is buried somewhere in this thread or another, about a person "not being qualified" to have an opinion about something... I just don't get that. To me, at least, I view anyone who is alive, and capable of thought to be qualified to form an opinion about something. All an opinion really contains is a persons thoughts about a subject. Having an opinion has nothing to do with being qualified to answer a persons question or offer advice on what the best course of action is. Maybe its just semantics but its one that sticks out to me. I want to point out that I hold a great deal of respect for all those who have the experience in this sport that I do not have. I respect all of you for the things you have accomplished and the lessons that you have learned, and in doing so will save me from having to learn the hard way. p.s. I spent a good 20 minutes deciding what I really wanted to say here before I came to the conclusion that this was taking up too much of my time and just hit post.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tattoojeff 0 #83 April 27, 2004 yeah this has gotten alittle out of control lol. i have some q's for ya WW. for staters youve just said why you dont post jump #'s but right next to your smiling face is your jump #'s. now your saying that number is fake? why bro. ive seen you fly your damn good and if anything i have more resect for your ability knowing the truth about your jump #'s!!!! my purpose of this thread was not about constantly updating your #'s. it was about people leaving it blank. too bad it had to get all heated i think ron thrives on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tattoojeff 0 #84 April 27, 2004 i also dont think its cool to generalize all of you who dont post #. thats why i asked to understand all the different reasons. which there are. i disaagree with ron about all of you thinking your better thAN you actually are. thats bullshit. some probably, most i doubt it, all gimme a break. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #85 April 27, 2004 QuoteThat is an interesting ?. I do post my jumps only because I have so little (60). I sometimes will read a thread that involves jumpers with 1,2,or 3K jumps and I am reluctant to respond, yet I have had some serious situations in my short time that I would like to share but I don't . I just read these forums and will get what I am looking for rather than post. These forums have given me a tremendous amount of info which I always discuss with all @ the DZ, with an overwhelming majority. I have landed off 4 times, had 4 bad line twist (2 near chop) and I still dont feel qualified to converse with the 1000 or so jumpers, These mishaps were my own fault and I am glad that I am here to post them. I am getting off the subject... I don't care about your jump#'s... If you give me a liitle "smigget" bit of advice for me to have a beer @ the end the day. "YES IN DEEDY" I don't think that anyone should feel like they are not "qualified" to talk with another person. The people who have *k jumps are just like the rest of us, except they have more experience (which we need to learn from). If you never ask questions of these guys someday we will lose the insight that they have to offer.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #86 April 27, 2004 First off, this is the Internet and I couldn't care less if people post their experience/jump numbers. The question is if they are trying to get on a "popular" skydive do they fudge their numbers/experience just to participate? Is it safe to do so? To some degree I concur with Billvon and Ron. Giving erroneous or misleading advice can be fatal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #87 April 27, 2004 QuoteI know one of my friends who will out fly many of my instructors and he only has 200 jumps.. Wow, and you could tell after one jump with me? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #88 April 27, 2004 Quote The question is if they are trying to get on a "popular" skydive do they fudge their numbers/experience just to participate? Is it safe to do so? "Safe" is always hard to measure, but it certainly shows a lack of respect and concern for the well being of the others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #89 April 27, 2004 QuoteQuote The question is if they are trying to get on a "popular" skydive do they fudge their numbers/experience just to participate? Is it safe to do so? "Safe" is always hard to measure, but it certainly shows a lack of respect and concern for the well being of the others. Someone with 40 jumps shouldn't be on a 40 way. That's not too hard to measure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #90 April 27, 2004 Quote That attitude comes from experience. The longer your in the sport, you'll have people with low jump numbers ask you questions about stuff like that, just out of curiosity. All it takes is a couple of those folks going out and trying it even though they asked for "curiosity" and then you will understand. It's still a crappy attitude. If you're going to assume the worst intent in people's questions, wouldn't it be better just to not reply (save to correct bad advice)? A perfectly valid reason to ask about camera flying is to identify the skills/risks one doesn't know about, and to thus be able to work on that over the XX jumps suggested. If the answer is instead, "don't be an idiot, newbie," you've really given them no [stated] reason to think they can't do it. Knowledge is power. *Maybe* at the training level I'm at it is useful to withhold information to simplify it. But after that, if you're going to make the effort to reply in some manner, why not be productive? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #91 April 27, 2004 QuoteBecasue they all like to think they are better than the number of jumps they have done, a nd want to be listened to. You see now I'm the complete oppoite of that. I belwive I don't jump anywhere near as good as many people with fewer jumps than me. I jumps with some people who have 100 jumps les than i do and they seem to be much better in the air than i am. But I'm learning that the race is LOOONG if i let it be. (I'm used to being a man in a hurry to go nowhere)You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #92 April 27, 2004 Quoteyeah this has gotten alittle out of control lol. i have some q's for ya WW. for staters youve just said why you dont post jump #'s but right next to your smiling face is your jump #'s. now your saying that number is fake? why bro. ive seen you fly your damn good and if anything i have more resect for your ability knowing the truth about your jump #'s!!!! my purpose of this thread was not about constantly updating your #'s. it was about people leaving it blank. too bad it had to get all heated i think ron thrives on it. No it doesn't have my jump numbers, it just says "less than 1000". To me and I'm sure to everyone else I'm sure thats the same as not posting them. Thanks for the compliment dude, I appreciate it. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #93 April 27, 2004 Quote Besides his only reason for not including jump numbers is his ego....Wanting to be taken more seriously than his jump numbers indicate.... Thats the wrong reason. You may be right, and I agree, I only have 400+ openings, canopy flights, landings, etc. which on that point you are totally correct. I'm a conservative canopy pilot, not a swooper, don't do hook turns and such because of my low jump numbers. I'm not saying I'm better than my jump numbers, I'm simply saying I've had lots of training in freefly specifically along with tunnel time and massive coaching. But that's ONLY in freefly, the rest of my stuff I'm either at my jump numbers (canopy skills) or under them (RW). IMO talent has nothing to do with it, it's only an amount of training/coaching any person could have, so it's not my ego I'm afraid of hurting. Let's say a person had say.......100 hours of tunnel time but only 50 jumps. This person would be shit under canopy but would be a great flyer for sure. If they only posted that they had 50 jumps, wouldn't you rip them a new one for trying to give advice on freefly or RW? One of the guys who gave me tunnel coaching had tons of hours, but only 30 jumps. Does that make him a bad flyer in freefall? At first glance on a profile it would. He'd give people advice and they'd all think he was a hothead newbie when in fact he'd be a good source of info. Edited to add: I now show my jump numbers. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #94 April 27, 2004 QuoteOkay, so you have the experience to advise someone on freeflying, but there is a huge difference when it comes to other parts of the skydive. You're very right. This is the reason I only ask for advice in the canopy forum and never give it. Well, lemme rephrase that, I do take the time to occasionally join in on the harsh talks toward 50-100 jump swoopers, does that count? And I don't even think I've ever visited the RW forum....wait no I went there once to see what kind of threads they run there. I'm so behind....... Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdgregory 0 #95 April 27, 2004 yeah what she said . . . Couldn't have said it better myself, Rosa. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #96 April 27, 2004 QuoteBesides, the rite of passage for a newbie is to get spanked by Ron at least once! My ass already hurts... If you were female I would be all happy right now. As it was...Oh well. One thing you will see is I only "Spank" someone not when the aska question....But when they don't listen to the answer. My pet peave is someone saying "Well you don't know me so you can't say"...True I may not know that person, but I have known hudereds of people that have been in that same situation to include myself. So I do know what could, and what most likley will happen. And when you think about it success at skydiving is more than medals it is judged by survival. So the cost of not listening could very well be death. QuoteBlue skies to all, and props to Ron for being Ron! I feel all warm and fuzzy...If you were female it would be better. Oh well...."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #97 April 27, 2004 QuoteJesus...I have never been slammed by Ron, I don't think. Thats cause when you ask a question you really want to know, and you listen to the answer. You don't ask me if its OK at 10 jumps to jump a camera wanting me to say it is OK. And when I say its a bad idea you don't try to defend why you should be allowed. A lot of people on here ask questions and they already know the answer they want, and are trying to get justification to back the stance they already have. So they ask "Can I jump a Stiletto 97 at 1.5 at 100 jumps?" And I say "Hell no!" Then they say that I don't know them and they once in the third grade built a paper airplane so they know all about flying and I am trying to hold them back. Then someone else tells them its a good idea...That being the answer they wanted they now go and buy that means for their destruction. Now if I ever meet you,I would be honored to spank you"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #98 April 27, 2004 Quote have landed off 4 times, had 4 bad line twist (2 near chop) and I still dont feel qualified to converse with the 1000 or so jumpers You are more qualified to discuss those things than a guy that has 1,000 jumps and has never had any of those things happen. But the key word is QUALIFIED...Some people think they are qualified when they are not. And that is the issue."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #99 April 27, 2004 Quotemy purpose of this thread was not about constantly updating your #'s. it was about people leaving it blank. There was once a post where I related an experience. Didn't give any advice, just showed a series of experiences. Someone came on and slammed me for giving advice, and used jump numbers to do it. Except I wasn't giving advice...simply sharing what had happened to me. So I decided that it wasn't helpful to include my jump numbers. People know they're low, anyway. LOL! Ron, I do respect you. I know you have more knowledge in your little finger than I do in my whole head about skydiving. What bothers me, honestly, is a regular "Don't you Even Dare question me" attitude. That leaves no room for the understanding of why it is the way it is. There was a situation in my city this week...a billboard went up, and it was "offensive." But 99.99% of the population didn't care about it - realized it was promoting a website. There was a very small, very vocal minority that created enough of a stir to bring the billboard down. Subsequently, there was a ton of media about it, and it seemed to be a much larger protest than the few who yelled and screamed and carried on (which of course brought more publicity to the website....LOL). You would've thought there was rioting in the street if you didn't know. I think sometimes people here are like that. You'd think everyone is downsizing too fast, or handing out bad advice right and left. Not everyone does that, though...I don't even think most do. Maybe some are most vocal about it, but often, questions are asked just to be asked... Ron, you used my real estate expertise as a balance. Sure, I expect you to listen. People do listen to you, too. But honestly, sometimes you're over the top...if all I ever explained to the people who are asking me questions is "because I said so", they have absolutely no understanding as to why, and then they can't take that information and make independent, accurate decisions. Like I said earlier, this is a sport we can't stop and ask for help if we run into a problem. We need to be fully geared towards handling things before we leave the plane...and that's where a base of information comes in handy. And a good understanding of why this is that way, and why that is this way, will benefit someone when they face a situation where they can't stop to ask for help. Anyway, the reason I don't post numbers was given above. Ciels - Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VanillaSkyGirl 6 #100 April 27, 2004 QuoteJesus...I have never been slammed by Ron, I don't think. Thats cause when you ask a question you really want to know, and you listen to the answer. Thank you, Ron. Like I said, I have never found your posts offensive. You are speaking to us based on your experience, and I appreciate that. Trust me, I always make up my mind to do what I think is best based on ALL the answers that I get to certain questions that I may have. I do think that as a new skydiver, I have to first be open-minded to learning from experienced jumpers and experiencing certain situations myself before I can claim to know all the answers. QuoteNow if I ever meet you,I would be honored to spank you Lol...I said that I had never been "slammed" by Ron, not spanked. Well, I am sure that we will eventually meet, so I guess that I will just have to watch my...um..."back". Thanks again, Ron! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
