why dont you post your jump numbers?

[Ron 7]

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I already knew thats how it was, I guess I was asking if you ought to take a stereotypical approach with everyone that you talk to or in the case of these forums reply to.

Well given the fact that a good number of people will go to great lengths to hide their experience...So far as to flat out lie about how many jumps they have done....How do you decide who is what?

The simple facts are that people are going to lie, or hide their experience.

I can't get to know and jump with and evaluate every person I ever meet. I don't have that amount of time. There are certian "Profiles" that people fall into. A woman that is 50 with 500 jump and jumping a spector I'm not so affraid he is going to try to hook the pond. A 25 year old male with 500 jumps jumping a Velocity...Well he is at risk.

It does not matter if you like it or not, profiling works.

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To me, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think that every person that comes on here with 10, 30, 50, 100 jumps, or whatever number of jumps constitutes not knowing anything, is a person that "thinks they are better than they really are."

It leaves a bad taste in my mouth as well...But it happens.

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I personally will be the first to admit that I am not very experienced, I guess when it comes down to it I am pretty hard on myself.

Then maybe you are not one of them...That does not mean that they do not exist.

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I would say I am somewhere right in the middle. Average

Well do you think the people that really suck think they really suck and are dnagerous? Very few that bounced thought they were going to die doing this.

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The other thing that rattles my chains is what is needed before a person will be taken seriously.

Depends on what you are saying...If you are talking about fear of skydiving, you might be a better source than me since you are newer. However if we are talking about 4 way block moves...I think I have you there. And if its an AFF question neither you or I are qualified...Thats BillVons department.

So if you were giving advice on how to do a hook turn...Or what size canopy is OK for another guy..Well that is out of your realm of experience.

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I post that I have 72 jumps and make sure that I am updating that to within a reasonable level of where I am you will take me seriously? But if I don't and I leave it how it is right now then anything I am saying is not even worth reading? Or am I just being placed in with the rest of the bunch because I don't have that number posted?

I wil take you seroiusly based on your experience. I would not take you seroiusly if you started giving hook turn advice. But I know the difference between crap advice and good advice....A guy with 20 jumps thinks 70 is a lot and does not know enough to know that your advice migth be crap.

I can tell your experience from what you write....Not everyone can.

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I think that everyone who speaks up about any subject wants to have their opinion heard and discussed by other people. If they didn't what would be the point of bringing it up in the first place.

Well if they want to express an opinion than they should be willing to have their credentails checked. Mine are open to all who want to see them...I give opinions, but I also don't hide my credentials. Want to give an a opinion?...You should also give your expereince to back it up, not hide it to try and strengthen your position.

Case in point..I have more jumps than Kallend...But he is a Physics Professor...So when it comes to *skydiving* (other than big ways) I might know more than him....But when it comes to design of a canopy, the effects of a venturi..ect he smokes me. He does not hide his PhD...I don't hide my jump numbers.

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The more that new jumpers get brushed off or just told "how it is" the less people will care to ask questions. They know that when they ask a question they won't be given the time of day to get a real explanation, so they just don't ask and to me that sucks.

Show me one newbie question that I jumped on them for asking it?...you will find I don't jump on them unless they refuse to listen..These people are "fishing" for the answer they want. When they don't get the answer they wanted they then try to defend the position they want. These people are not asking a question to learn, they are looking for permission to do what they already want.

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I do understand that there are quite a few people out there who think that they are the top dog, best ever at X jumps, whatever. Considering the above you honestly think its fair (neigh, ought to be the case) that every person who posts on here, or you meet in person should be immediately considered to be one of the people who thinks they are "all that"? I will extend you the benefit of the doubt by saying that it is clear in most things, not just skydiving, that it is difficult to judge your own skill level and progress without some kind of outside scale.

Think of the cost of a mistake...death. Given the choice I will error on the safe side every time.

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As for the comment that is buried somewhere in this thread or another, about a person "not being qualified" to have an opinion about something... I just don't get that. To me, at least, I view anyone who is alive, and capable of thought to be qualified to form an opinion about something. All an opinion really contains is a persons thoughts about a subject. Having an opinion has nothing to do with being qualified to answer a persons question or offer advice on what the best course of action is. Maybe its just semantics but its one that sticks out to me.

While a person who can read and think is qualified to give an opinion....That does not mean that they have a clue of what they are talking about. A good case of this is the 45 degree exit rule....Some think its a good idea.

Qualifications are not the same as jump numbers...Just like I said Kallend is MUCH more qualified to to talk about how physics principals effect a canopy and its flight...I am much more qualified to teach someone to hook turn than him. BillVon is much more qualified to talk about AFF than me...Or electronics. But I would think they would listen to me talk about 4way.

But the simple truth is that in MOST cases the guy with more jumps knows more about skydiving....Just as the pilot with 1,000 hours knows more than the guy with 100. A Dr. knows more about the subject he is in than a regular guy with a BA degree.

I really don't see how that is a hard concept to grasp.

And you yourself have sais that people like to think they are the "top dog"...Well the danger is taht while I might be able to see they guy is full of shit..You may not.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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You see now I'm the complete oppoite of that.

At one time you also didn't think you were dependant on any gear right?

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1050533#1050533

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The next few Jumps i did were with my Gath. I chose to leave my dytter in my camera helmet, and commented to my friend that "I don't rely on it anyway."
I truely beleived this, as on most every jump I check ,y alti just before my 1st alarm sounds (or so I thought) at 5000.
Well on the next 3 jumps, every time I checked my alti, I was approaching 4000 or just going through 4000.
The 1st time it happend, I was startlted, to find that I do infect rely on my dytter

But when I say that people do rely on those things...Some people say I am full of shit. Funny huh?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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I'm not saying I'm better than my jump numbers

Well in FF you might very well be..I have no problem telling you that you are a better freeflyer than me.

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But that's ONLY in freefly, the rest of my stuff I'm either at my jump numbers (canopy skills) or under them (RW). IMO talent has nothing to do with it, it's only an amount of training/coaching any person could have, so it's not my ego I'm afraid of hurting.

And so if you are giving freefly advice...I would listen. However if you were giving bad canopy advice I would jump in.

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Let's say a person had say.......100 hours of tunnel time but only 50 jumps. This person would be shit under canopy but would be a great flyer for sure. If they only posted that they had 50 jumps, wouldn't you rip them a new one for trying to give advice on freefly or RW?

Not if the advice was good. Here is an interesting story...One of my old teammates was a tunnel rat...He could skydive circles around me all day long....He didn't handle a mal correctly and he is dead now. Now he gave me RW advice all the time...But I would not let him give me or anyone else skydiving advice.

Was he better at RW than me...Hell yes. But he is dead now.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kelel01 1]

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I personally will be the first to admit that I am not very experienced, I guess when it comes down to it I am pretty hard on myself. I guess I just don't have the desire to show off and make people think I am cool. Don't get me wrong, I want to be good, if I could afford to jump and jump and jump, I would. From this I made the assumption that there might be more people out there like me. I know I suck, I mean come on I don't even have 100 jumps. I would say I am somewhere right in the middle. Average. I would also say that most people are (hence the term average). You have a few people who are really good, and a few who are well below the average level, a good deal of which I'm sure quit when they realize this, but for the most part everyone is right in the middle.

Amen, brother. And I'm in no hurry to get myself killed. I do think, though, that we are not the norm. Several people I know who have 50 jumps are attempting to fly head down-- worse yet, they're doing it with other inexperienced jumpers who have no business flying head down either. And the rest of them are at least sitflying. This, I feel, is the main reason people mask their numbers. I know that I'm a little behind the learning curve, and that's why I'm still bellyflying. (Well, that, and I just realized that I actually enjoy it!
Now, AggieDave, I see what you're saying about "just out of curiosity" type questions, but some people have been on this site long enough (like Nightingale), and I believe that they have proven themselves to be worthy of receiving a straight answer. Kris asking, "Out of curiosity, how many jumps should someone have before attempting to fly camera. I'm NOT even thinking about doing it yet." should be met with "Well, Kris, depending on how someone flies, I would say they need to have a MINIMUM of ___________ jumps, as well as training from an experienced camera person. But make sure to talk to your instructor before attempting anything new.", or whatever the correct response is. DON'T DO IT, MORON!!!! is not an acceptable response.

I've forgotten the rest of my rant, so I guess I'll stop here.

Kelly

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"But when I say that people do rely on those things...Some people say I am full of shit. Funny huh?"

Some of us will admit that they play an important role in our altitude management.
Camera people for example.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Ron 7]

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Ron, I do respect you. I know you have more knowledge in your little finger than I do in my whole head about skydiving. What bothers me, honestly, is a regular "Don't you Even Dare question me" attitude. That leaves no room for the understanding of why it is the way it is.

And what bothers me about you is the whole "Respect my experience because its worth something" But you think that means its worth more than just the experience itself.

You don't see me argue and tell Kallend he is wrong about physics since I have read "Physics for Dummies".

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Ron, you used my real estate expertise as a balance. Sure, I expect you to listen. People do listen to you, too. But honestly, sometimes you're over the top...

I'm over the top cause I'm sick of going to funerals. The cost of me being "over the top" is you will not buy me a beer...Fine. If it gets one person to think and be safer I'll live with that all day.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[WrongWay 0]

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And so if you are giving freefly advice...I would listen. However if you were giving bad canopy advice I would jump in.

That's why I always ask for canopy advice and never give it. I'm not experienced enough to, and I have no shame in saying that.

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Not if the advice was good. Here is an interesting story...One of my old teammates was a tunnel rat...He could skydive circles around me all day long....He didn't handle a mal correctly and he is dead now. Now he gave me RW advice all the time...But I would not let him give me or anyone else skydiving advice.

Was he better at RW than me...Hell yes. But he is dead now.

Wow, that's a tragic story, but a very good point. It's like I said, advice you give is all relative.

Very good points Ron, and I'm sorry about your friend.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[WrongWay 0]

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"But when I say that people do rely on those things...Some people say I am full of shit. Funny huh?"

Some of us will admit that they play an important role in our altitude management.

Right on dude, I don't like being dependant on mine, but when I think about it, I am, and that's not a good thing.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[crutch 0]

You da'man Ron, having girls want to get spanked by you!

Anyway, here's the beef, and anyone who has been in the sport for awhile understands this. Most skydivers begin to think they are the "shit" and undestructable for a little while in their skydiving careers. This happens between 50 to 500 jumps. They don't understand why anyone won't want to have the feeling they do when they step out of the plane. They drive all of their old friends wacko trying to get them to jump. You can also get them to try just about any stupid thing you can think of, because they skydive, bullets bounce off their chest. They also give very bad advice. I have had someone with 200 jumps tell a "newbie" if you have a line over, try and pull it off before you cut-away.

This is what is wrong about not knowing howmany jumps someone has. To the public (and most new jumpers) a hundred jumps seems like a lot. To these people (I remember thinking this) someone with that many jumps should know it all, and that is where the trouble begins. My first JM had 500 jumps and I thought he was a god. After a couple hundred jumps, I realized, whoa, he doesn't quite know what he is talking about, and he has a very hard time closing any higher than sixth on a form load (two cessnas).

Anyhow, just some fuel for the fire. I don't want to curb anyone's excitement in the sport, but at the same time, I don't want any bad advice being given out of that excitement.

blue skies,

art

[Michele 1]

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And what bothers me about you is the whole "Respect my experience because its worth something" But you think that means its worth more than just the experience itself.

Sorry, it's still very early for me, but I didn't quite grasp what you meant. Can you clarify?

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I'm over the top cause I'm sick of going to funerals. The cost of me being "over the top" is you will not buy me a beer...Fine. If it gets one person to think and be safer I'll live with that all day.

I've never said I won't buy you a beer (that I can recall, at least...), but you and I have gotten angry at each other any number of times. That doesn't mean I don't respect your information...

See, I think perhaps the cost for being over the top is maybe more than a beer, though. Maybe the cost is a person's life, because they can't hear what you say the way you say it, and don't have a knowledge base to draw from when they get into trouble?

I really, really get that you're sick of funerals. And I'm sorry you've gotten so sick of them you think the best way to address it is to yell and make fun of and chastize. Maybe you and I just have a different view - I think teaching can be done a different way then you do. And that's all right, isn't it?

What worries me, though, is the pervasive feeling that a person can't share an experience, or ask a question, because of the reaction they get from some of the members on this board. I have a concern about those folks; how are they getting their knowledge base? Via pm from someone they shouldn't be trusting? Not getting any at all? I suspect there are many many more people like that than have posted, either lurkers or posters who just don't post here, and I've seen that feeling expressed a halfdozen or more times recently.

So I have to ask...is reaching the one person through "being over the top" worth the cost of those lives who've been told they have no right to ask questions, or see when someone does ask a question, they get slammed mercilessly (not just by you, btw...) and so don't ask their question?

It's way too early, and way too hot for me to think on this anymore.
Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Ron 7]

Very well said. I know I thought I was bullet proof at around 300-500 jumps...

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My first JM had 500 jumps and I thought he was a god.

My first Instructor had 500 jumps and his license plate WAS "SKYGOD".

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[cocheese 0]

I always thought i sucked for my numbers. Keeps me alive.
Never thought i knew everything. Never was in a hurry to do something new or too early or downsize too early. Not perfect in this aspect but i respect the need to gradually move forward in the sport. I think we are all students forever. Stop Learning and ya just might stop jumping (not by choice.)
Post your jump numbers and be honest people so we can stop this thread and move on.
O.K. we all agree to respect each other and not
think less of anyone who has fewer jumps. But we will also try to protect each other from doing something too early. And we will look at jump numbers as a guideline... not gospel.

[Ron 7]

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Sorry, it's still very early for me, but I didn't quite grasp what you meant. Can you clarify?

Your experience may be worth something...But it is only THAT experience, to YOU. You don't have the larger scope of knowledge to understand how that would relate to other situations, and other personalities.

Your opinion might be right for YOU in THAT situation. but it may not apply to anyone else in any other situation.

I have seen people tell others on here that a smaller canopy is safer than a larger one. HUH?

I have seen people on here tell a guy that a Sabre 150 at a 1.1 would be a fine canopy for him at 30 jums...Oh, but they didn't know that they guy is jumping in Colorado and they didn't take into account that they jumped a 1.1 loaded Sabre in Florida at sea level. WAY different situations.

I have seen people on here try to teach another about the two stage flair...Great, but the student gear they learned on was a Navigator, and this guy has a Raven IV..Again WAY different.

On of my favorites...A guy was looking for a new canopy...He got lead on a good deal. A "right sized" 9 Cell ZP canopy with 300 jumps on it for like 300 bucks!!! WOW! Several of his buddies thought it was a great idea and told him to buy it. What would you tell him?

They ran to me to tell me about it....I asked him the name of the canopy...It was a Nova...Most of this newbie group knew nothing about the Nova...After I told them the story, they didn't think it was a good deal anymore.

So while the advice or the experience is valuable For YOU and YOUR situation...It does not apply to others automaticly. There is MUCH more info that must be gotten...Some of which you don't even know about.

How many on here really understand density altitude?

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See, I think perhaps the cost for being over the top is maybe more than a beer, though. Maybe the cost is a person's life, because they can't hear what you say the way you say it, and don't have a knowledge base to draw from when they get into trouble?

There are other instructors out there...You have said yourself many times that you don't listen to me due to my approach...But I have others tell me to keep it up and it was what they needed.

From a PM I got (With Permission)

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But, that isn't for me to dictate to you. As my AFF 1 teacher said.. there isn't so much time in this sport to be like, um, please, if you don't mind, could you please pull your ripcord at your nearest opportunity?

Hey... do me a favor.. and try to keep these guys safe. Most people don't know the bad side of skydiving, just the good. Don't give up... people DO listen.

And, I owe you a beer.

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This is in regards to your posts on the jumping elliptical thread. I am a newbie with 14 Jumps and need to thank you and the rest of the ones that told it like it is. I hope that if I ever pull a jack-ass move like that there will be guys like you around to rip me a new asshole

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I don't believe we have ever spoken before, but I would like to thank you for all of your posts on here. I have been actively reading this forum since late last year and in that little amount of time I have come to respect your views and opinions very much. I try to pay relatively close attention to everyone's posts when a serious topic is being discussed, but when I see a post from you I shut the door and tell my girlfriend to leave me alone while I analize it! Your honesty really does help someone like myself (newbie) pick through the trash that is sometimes posted and get down to the real important information.

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Some of us 100 jump wonders read everything you type Ron. Although I don't always want to hear everything you have to say... I NEED to hear it... and it adds up. Your agressive input on this site comes off wrong to alot of people. Others realise that you're doing it all out of experience and good intentions. Both hear your message. I guess I just wanted to tell you not to get discouraged.

And I get several others..The fact is you may not respond well to my posts...But others do.

Case in point http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1052970#1052970

If I have to be seen as an asshole to some to be able to get the message to others...I'll live with that.

I'm not here to be popular. I'm here to help keep people safe.

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What worries me, though, is the pervasive feeling that a person can't share an experience, or ask a question, because of the reaction they get from some of the members on this board.

Show me where I have jumped on someone for asking a question. I know I'll jump them if they ignore the answer and try to defend the positon they want...If they are not going to listen, why ask the question? If they share and experience thats cool...When they start giving bad advice I also jump in.

You may not like the style I use...but it does work...Just maybe not for you.

So go find other instructors that teach the way you like...Or just try to read my info and not read the rant part of it....

Either way all my posts are not intended for you. The are intended for everyone, and I hope some listen.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[ladyskydiver 0]

I do post my numbers. Why? Because I'm proud of each and every one of them.

Regarding Ron, when I first came onto this website, I felt Ron was point blank and could be harsh - but honest and truthful - with the way he got his point across. Didn't think I'd like him if I ever had the opportunity to meet him. I've watched the posts and how it comes about that Ron (and others) get harsh in their dealings with individuals.

It usually starts out with "A" asking a question or telling "B" to do something that could get them hurt/killed. Getting a ton of good replies - point blank and some nicely worded ones. "A" then comes back at the point blank answers and tries to go around the answer with "Yeah, but..." or something along those lines. With the nicely worded answers, "A" usually ignores them or tries to get them to agree with the post. After one, two, ten go arounds with "A," the point blank posts become harsh. And, at that time, "A" deserves the harsh response - go search for any of the "Skydiving is Safe" threads.

Jump numbers are not everything, but they do help gauge approximately where a person is at. My original dealings with Ron had something to do with what I felt was a generalization of "newbies" in the sport. And, because I didn't fit the generalization, I told him that he shouldn't lump us all into the same category - to which he responded that it is a generalization (and hence my beginning to understand how Ron gets his messages across). Although his message may be "Newbies...," he has been around long enough (and is intelligent enough) to realize not everyone fits into that category BUT the majority do and that there are some categories that ALL newbies fit into.

Oh...and to finish my story about Ron. Met him at ZHills. He walked away. I thought he was a nice guy and had enjoyed the conversation. I was informed that "That was Ron." My response - "Yeah, I know he said his name was Ron." Never putting Ron (the person) and Ron (DZ.com) together. Light bulb went off, and I put the two together. My opinion of Ron once the "two" were merged - still a great guy, understand more of his posts and how he gets the message across, and one you can learn from.

There's a lot that can be learned from Ron, Billvon, etc. People just have to take the "personal" aspect out of it. Don't get your undies in a bundle because of the point blank message. Read it, ask questions, understand it, clarify the response, but realize the "Harsh" responses/posters are trying to keep us in the sport - alive and unbroken.

**Whew! That's a long one.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[firstime 0]

Thanks Ron, I don't feel qualified to offer advice to others but I DO feel qualified to act in a safe and prudent manner if I experience my own snafu's.
I listen to everyone with a vengence and talk very little. That is advice I CAN give. Shut up and listen.

[tattoojeff 0]

let me voice my opinion. im tired of these threads turning into ron vs. the world. why doesnt someone start a new thread all about ron and his views, leave this one alone. to tell the truth im tired of reading these see saw arguments. enough is enough pages upon pages of shit that alot of times has nothing to do with the thread. ron you have alot of knowledge but somehow you find a way to over anaylize a post just to start a huge argument that nobody learns shit from. im sure your going to write a book and quote me all over the place retorting everything ive said so let me save you some time. i probably will NOT respond cuz im not going to fall into the RON trap. its not worth it to me to debate someone as self rightous and closed minded as you can be. so go ahead fire away and get this shit over with.

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

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so go ahead fire away and get this shit over with.

Hmmm...I will answer from my viewpoint...

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pages upon pages of shit that alot of times has nothing to do with the thread.

How is that different from any other thread and the debates that occur there? I don't believe that I've been reading pages of "shit". Just because you disagree with a poster, doesn't mean that his posts are "shit".

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ron you have alot of knowledge but somehow you find a way to over anaylize a post just to start a huge argument that nobody learns shit from.

Again, disagreed by myself and many others, especially newer skydivers, I can guarantee you that. I am not a mindless follower either. I never have been because I actually READ everyone's answers and analyze the answers myself.

Just because someone is saying something in a way that some people may or may not find offensive, it doesn't make their statements any less valid. We have all had instructors/professors whom we hated, but we still had to listen to and learn from their knowledge in the classroom. Therefore, if I read something that someone posts and it makes sense, I don't care if the poster is the most arrogant SOB walking the earth...I will listen the next time that he/she offers advice.

Btw, I was not referring to Ron, he seems fine to me...maybe just a little stubborn with his viewpoints, which many people here are guilty of. At least, his viewpoints come from many years of experience and/or knowledge, unlike others.

[Ron 7]

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let me voice my opinion. im tired of these threads turning into ron vs. the world

Would you like some cheeze with that wine?

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why doesnt someone start a new thread all about ron and his views, leave this one alone

Feel free hero!

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to tell the truth im tired of reading these see saw arguments. enough is enough pages upon pages of shit that alot of times has nothing to do with the thread

Simple answer...quit reading them...Longer answer get a therapist.

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ron you have alot of knowledge but somehow you find a way to over anaylize a post just to start a huge argument that nobody learns shit from

No, I reply to thread to help educate...I don't just post Boobies over and over.

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im sure your going to write a book and quote me all over the place retorting everything ive said so let me save you some time. i probably will NOT respond cuz im not going to fall into the RON trap.

Thanks, I will write a book. As for falling into the Ron trap...I guess you think I care what you think about me huh? Fact is I get emails from people who support me all the time...And again if you don't like it, you can avoid anything I post.

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its not worth it to me to debate someone as self rightous and closed minded as you can be.

Ah pudd'in are you gonna cry????

I'll debate anyone....But you are showing a self rightous attitude here stud, not me.

As for close minded...you very clearly don't know me.

Oh yeah have a nice day...and a nice personal attack....But like I said you must think your opinon maters to me huh?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[billvon 2,464]

>did anyone try to explain to the newbie what happens when you
> downsize too quickly? About how canopies work with relation to wing
> loading, line length, responsiveness, etc...? or was he just
> told "you're not ready" and no more than that?

The conversations generally go pretty much along the lines I described. Some other excerpts:

"You can't safely land a canopy that small."
"Yeah, well I landed a Stiletto 99! So you're just plain wrong."
"Landing a small canopy a few times does not mean that you're good enough to land it reliably."
"Well what about Carmen? She falls down all the time and you're not yelling at her!"

"The reason you're having problems landing is that your canopy's too small for your experience level. Getting a smaller one will just make things worse."
"You jump a Safire 119! What do you know about 100 sq ft canopies?"

Many newbies simply see any reply other than "go for it!" as a brushoff, or they hear what they want. My favorite example of this was about five years back, when a particular newbie was agitating to jump his new Stiletto that he wasn't ready for. We'd been around a few times already. Buzz told him he couldn't jump it unless I said it was OK.

He came up to me. "So Buzz said I could jump it."

"What? Did he . . you're not ready for it."

"But Buzz said!"

"I don't care. You're not jumping that here."

"Then I'm gonna jump it at Perris."

"Whatever."

He then returned to Buzz and said "Bill said it was OK to jump it."


"Wh

[flyangel2 2]

Ding, ding, ding.............Once again, Ron knows what he is talking about

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[NeedToJump 0]

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ron you have alot of knowledge but somehow you find a way to over anaylize a post just to start a huge argument that nobody learns shit from

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i probably will NOT respond cuz im not going to fall into the RON trap. its not worth it to me to debate someone as self rightous and closed minded as you can be.

I find it pretty funny actually how so many people with relatively low jump numbers and experience (I'm included in the low numbers and expierience part) like to say how Ron is closed minded and no one learns anything from him, yet many of the very experienced skydivers posting tend to agree with him. Hmmm...

I personally will read any post I see by Ron because I KNOW that it will contain valuable information without and of the bs. I know that I've learned a lot from what he writes because I try to get over myself and my ego when I read his posts. You know what? It works. I humble myself and I learn. It's incredible what listening will do for you...

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[Nightingale 0]

I agree with a lot of WHAT he says, just not HOW he says it.

[champu 1]

Ron should come with popcorn.

also, public service announcement!

posting "You're probably just going to rip this post apart line by line, but that's fine cause I'm ignoring this thread forever and ever cause there's no point in arguing with someone like you" makes the children of the world cry, kills countless cute fuzzy koalas, and depletes the ozone layer.

[Ron 7]

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Ron should come with popcorn.

[Lounge Lizzard Voice]Thanks, you have been great, I'll be here all week. Be kind to your hard working web masters.[/Lounge Lizzard Voice]

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also, public service announcement!

posting "You're probably just going to rip this post apart line by line, but that's fine cause I'm ignoring this thread forever and ever cause there's no point in arguing with someone like you" makes the children of the world cry, kills countless cute fuzzy koalas, and depletes the ozone layer.

I don't kill koalas...I kill kittens

So far in just this thread we have learned about me:

1. Its a right of passage to have me spank newbies. (I could really get into that...Ladies line up right over here)

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Besides, the rite of passage for a newbie is to get spanked by Ron at least once!http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1052680#1052680

2. I'm honest and truthfull (Write me in for Prez '04) and I tell it how I see it...Without the BS. Some like it, some don't.

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Regarding Ron, when I first came onto this website, I felt Ron was point blank and could be harsh - but honest and truthful http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1053143#1053143

3. People like me...well atleast the ones that know me...The others I strongly suspect are taking a collection for a hitman.

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Oh...and to finish my story about Ron. Met him at ZHills. He walked away. I thought he was a nice guy and had enjoyed the conversationhttp://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1053143#1053143

3. I clearly am much more hated than even I thought...

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these threads turning into ron vs. the world.http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1053791#1053791

I guess I should be prepared for UN action? I mean me against the WORLD and all.

4. I clearly both teach a lot of people

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Ding, ding, ding.............Once again, Ron knows what he is talking abouthttp://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1054139#1054139

,

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I personally will read any post I see by Ron because I KNOW that it will contain valuable information without and of the bs. I know that I've learned a lot from what he writes because I try to get over myself and my ego when I read his posts. You know what? It works. I humble myself and I learn. It's incredible what listening will do for you... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1054426#1054426

And don't at the same time with the same posts.

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you find a way to over anaylize a post just to start a huge argument that nobody learns shit from.http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1053791#1053791

Man I am really a complex guy.

5. I'm entertaining. And be honest its why we are all here.

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Ron should come with popcorn.http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1054518#1054518

6. I should come with a public service announcement....Wow a PSA of my very own...Quade you work in broadcast...work one up for me will ya?http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1054518#1054518

Wow....cool huh?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[WrongWay 0]

Lemme tell you something about Ron that you may have been too blinded by your need to attack him to see. He's blunt, he's harsh, but he's right. He has experience that neither you or I have, and he's seen a hell of a lot more than we have. You don't have to like him, but you should at least respect him and listen to what he says. He's put me in my place on more than one occasion, and every time I've looked back and he's been right. Pay some respect, he's gonna be here giving good advice and much needed harsh talks, whether you like it or not.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.