why dont you post your jump numbers?

[tattoojeff 0]

this q's is for those who dont post there number of jumps. out of curiosity, what are your reasons. i see alot of " never enough" or just leaving that slot blank. why fill out time in sport, lisc, ext. and not jump numbers. i dont know why it bothers me i guess it just does.

[cocheese 0]

1) Some made only a few jumps in those many years.
2) Some are better fliers than the jumps would indicate.
3) Some want to keep ya guessing.
4) some don't want to brag or be judged by jump numbers.
5) Some don't want to be perceived as a know-it-all or don't know shit.
6) some people do stuff or don't do stuff for reasons we'll never know or understand.

[jumperconway 0]

I update mine weekly

[raftman 12]

7) Some people don't even log their jumps and have no idea how many they have.

[atsaubrey 0]

I think it all boils down to how qualified you are to answer questions. I know one of my friends who will out fly many of my instructors and he only has 200 jumps..I trust him in the air more than most, but on here (to some people) doesn't know jack shit. I for one actually have 1800 jumps but care not to disclose it.

"GOT LEAD?"

[Ron 7]

Becasue they all like to think they are better than the number of jumps they have done, a nd want to be listened to.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Mad47 0]

true

[tattoojeff 0]

i see the different points of view. but to me it matters. not so much jump numbers alone but more jump #'s vs. time in sport. not entering jumps defeats the purpose of trying to be taken seriously to me. im a lot more skeptical of someones advice with no # entered than someone with a few hundred jumps. at least i know they have a few hundred and arent hiding there history.i have also seen some shit hot flyers with low #'s so i dont look down on advice given from low # jumpers, especialy if there jumps were in close succesion. but to each his own.
blue skies

[Unstable 8]

I post approx numbers..... I am not ashamed of my numbers or anything, I don't care how who judges me as what, but I just forget to update mine everytime I make a jump!! I don't see why posting (250) compared to (267) (for example only) is going to cause any problems. This post reminds me, time to Update!!

=========Shaun ==========

[Fast 0]

I used to have them listed, but the change in my jump numbers from any given week to the next is not very much. I didn't think that it was worth listing anymore... so I just put in what is listed (and this was before it was even shown on the post).

Only a B# and 1yr in the sport is pretty clear to me at least that I should apear to others that I am a newbie... (For the record, I only have 72 jumps)

I guess I don't see the significance of updating the numbers every week when they are so low anyways.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[crutch 0]

Well said Ron!

blue skies,

art

[Nightingale 0]

I list mine, but I almost didn't...

When I had two or three jumps, I posted in a conversation about why people do or do not use a cypres.

my comment was something like "it seems like cypres are kinda like seatbelts. you hope you never need them, but when you do, you're thankful, because they can save your ass. At this point, I don't really see a reason that I shouldn't use one."

One of the responses I got was something to the effect of "no offense, but you don't have enough jumps to even form an opinion on this."

Well... fifty jumps later, and my opinion hasn't changed. With what I do, I still don't see any reason to jump without a cypres.


Jump numbers can be deceiving. You can have someone with one or two jumps who doesn't know shit, or you can have someone with one or two jumps who's been packing, rigging, or working manifest for ten years. If all you look at is jump numbers, you'd think these two folks had the same knowledge base, but they don't. One has had infinitely more exposure to the sport.

[davelepka 4]

***one of my friends who will out fly many of my instructors and he only has 200 jumps..I trust him in the air more than most, but on here (to some people) doesn't know jack shit.
---------------------------------------------------------

Watch who you trust in the air. Remember, as good as you may think he is, he still only has 200 jumps, and only have 25. There are worlds of skill and information out there the both of you haven't even considered.

I need 50 or so jumps with somebody before I really 'trust' them in the air. That even goes the AFF I's at the DZ I work at when I was new to the staff.

[BETO74 0]

Simply because -IS NEVER ENOUGH-

and I don't have time to up date daily or weekly, no that I make a lot of jumps I always try to get a minimun of 20 at month at least.

Same reason why with my number of jumps I only have the A license, Lazyness.

http://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html

[Ron 7]

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One of the responses I got was something to the effect of "no offense, but you don't have enough jumps to even form an opinion on this."

Well... fifty jumps later, and my opinion hasn't changed. With what I do, I still don't see any reason to jump without a cypres.

Maybe you still don't have enough experience? 50 jumps is not a lot. While I can see WANTING a CYRPRES (and I have one) my issue has always been people NEEDING them. (Seperate issues and off topic) If you had a classic 57 Chevy, but it didn't have seatbelts...would you ever drive it?

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Jump numbers can be deceiving. You can have someone with one or two jumps who doesn't know shit, or you can have someone with one or two jumps who's been packing, rigging, or working manifest for ten years. If all you look at is jump numbers, you'd think these two folks had the same knowledge base, but they don't. One has had infinitely more exposure to the sport.

Yes, but both still know jack shit about actual skydiving. While I might listen to a rigger with less jumps than me about gear, I would not listen to his advice about body position.

I think its pretty simple...Post your jump numbers (And be honest) and if your words are good people will listen no matter what you jump #'s are..And if your words are BS then they will not. But it does help with people who are on the fence about if they should listen to you or not.

I for one am glad we got rid of the stupid post # ranking system...It just confused the issue.

The only reason to not list your jump #'s (Or a close guess as to what they are...Does it matter I have 3400 jumps and just list 3000+? I don't think so...But 50 or 450 is a BIG difference.) Is to try and hide your experience level. Well, thats fine if you want to post in "Bonfire" or some other Community forum. But when you start posting in the Informative forums...Well your experience is very valuable. Its not always 100% accurate, but it is a good start.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[sunnydee123 0]

COME ON NOW ~ if ya have a minute to browse these threads and make a quick little post, why can't ya update your profile

I'm a dork, I fill out my log book after each jump and come here each Monday and update the profile.

Look what's just around the corner (hint hint....jump #)

Dreams become reality, one choice at a time...

[sdgregory 0]

Thanks Ron,

That is as good of an explanation as I think anyone can get.

And I am also glad about the change in profile info on this site.







Sunnydee,


look at what's just around the corner . . . (see your hint)

[Nightingale 0]

what I said is "I don't see a reason why I shouldn't use one." There is still no good reason why I shouldn't use one that outweighs the reasons why I should.

I never said anything about needing one. When I made that comment, I'd had extensive discussions with two of my instructors about what a cypres was, how it worked, and why it was used. I wasn't telling anyone else what to do. I just said I didn't see a reason for ME not to use one.

[happythoughts 0]

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Becasue they all like to think they are better than the number of jumps they have done, a nd want to be listened to.

The basic use of intelligence is to gather all your available information together and produce new information/opinions from it. The problem occurs when you are missing part of your base information and don't realize that.

Does that flame-proof suit come in a paisley print or do you have just one color?

[Ron 7]

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what I said is "I don't see a reason why I shouldn't use one." There is still no good reason why I shouldn't use one that outweighs the reasons why I should.

Based on your knowledge and experience, you are correct. But its kinda like training Karate without any contact. I have seen a BB get into a fight and pull his first attack...Just like he had trained for three years. He didn't even hurt the guy. Once he realized that he pulled his punches...He changed his plan and his second attack worked. But he was very open to counter attack while he re-evaluated the situation. I have also seen guys get hit for real for the first time. Later he told me that he never realized how much we held back when sparring.

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I never said anything about needing one.

The funny thing about dependance is you never know you are until you find out.

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When I made that comment, I'd had extensive discussions with two of my instructors about what a cypres was, how it worked, and why it was used. I wasn't telling anyone else what to do. I just said I didn't see a reason for ME not to use one.

And again at your experience level its the right call...But realize you are not training full contact.

Edit to add:
Not tying to turn this into a CYPRES thread...I have learned that those that don't understand/don't care about my view points will never listen.

But the jump numbers thing is clear. You would only hide them to hide a portion of your experience.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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The basic use of intelligence is to gather all your available information together and produce new information/opinions from it. The problem occurs when you are missing part of your base information and don't realize that.

And large amounts of people listen to only the advice they want...Reguardless of the source.

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Does that flame-proof suit come in a paisley print or do you have just one color?

Black goes with everything.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Nightingale 0]

I hate seeing people tell newbies that they are not "qualified to have an opinion."

If I'm qualified enough to throw myself out of a plane, I'm qualified to have an opinion on certain aspects of my gear.

It seems like, instead of refuting the low-timer's opinion with actual facts, situations, or issues, people have a tendency to say "you don't have enough jump numbers to have an opinion." and then don't add any more info.

Anyone with an A license, according to USPA, is allowed to have an opinion on cypres use, helmet use, canopy size, full face vs. open face helmet, etc... They HAVE to have an opinion on stuff like this, because as soon as someone gets an A license, they're allowed to make their own choices, and therefore, MUST have an opinion on the correct choice to make. If you want to contradict their opinion or offer an alternate view, fine, but don't tell them they're not entitled to have some idea of what they should do regarding their own safety.

A better response to the cypres issue would have been "in (insert situation here), you may not want a cypres, because (insert reason here)." rather than just brushing someone off for their jump numbers.

[wzettler 0]

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But the jump numbers thing is clear. You would only hide them to hide a portion of your experience.

I think I get your meaning, but could you expand on this opinion? I don't want to assume anything...

I think when Jesus said "love your enemy" he probably meant don't kill them.

[Ron 7]

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I hate seeing people tell newbies that they are not "qualified to have an opinion."

And how do you feel about a white belt having an opinion on which style or technique is better?

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If I'm qualified enough to throw myself out of a plane, I'm qualified to have an opinion on certain aspects of my gear.

Only within the realm of your experience...I know a guy that thought he was getting a great deal on a ZP 9 cell canopy with only 300 jumps on it....I asked him what was the name of the canopy...He said Nova....When I explained the history of that canopy he realized that the deal was not that good.

Just like the Yellow belt is qualified to decide if a kata is realistic?

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It seems like, instead of refuting the low-timer's opinion with actual facts, situations, or issues, people have a tendency to say "you don't have enough jump numbers to have an opinion." and then don't add any more info.

In this particular case (CYPRES dependancy) it has been talked about so much I'm sick of it...Plus a quick search could give you all the info you would hope for.

As for the jump number thing....Well someone that refuses to give a jump number I treat just like I used to treat those martial artists that said they studied but would not give me any info about the style they took, the rank the reached, or how long they took it. I suspect them.

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Anyone with an A license, according to USPA, is allowed to have an opinion on cypres use, helmet use, canopy size, full face vs. open face helmet, etc... They HAVE to have an opinion on stuff like this, because as soon as someone gets an A license, they're allowed to make their own choices, and therefore, MUST have an opinion on the correct choice to make

Yep, but many times their opinon is just flat wrong.

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If you want to contradict their opinion or offer an alternate view, fine, but don't tell them they're not entitled to have some idea of what they should do regarding their own safety.

Why you will not listen? Do you listen to every Yellow belt that expresses an opinion of how certain moves in a "one step" sequence should be done?

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A better response to the cypres issue would have been "in (insert situation here), you may not want a cypres, because (insert reason here)." rather than just brushing someone off for their jump numbers.

This whole thread is about how some jumpers hide their jump numbers. The reason is cause they don't want to listen and want to be taken more seriously than their experience warrents.

Then you have those that will not listen to any advice other than the advice they want to hear.

Either way I'm done. This is not a CYPRES thread and you and I have gone over this very topic about 100 times...You don't see the issues with CYPRES dependancy, and I do.

Realize that in Skydiving I am the Black Belt and you are a White Belt. You are entitled to opinions all day long..That does not make them right...My opinions are not always right either..But given the choice of listening to a guy with 11 years and 3400 jumps, or someone with 50 jumps over a year...I'd have to say I have more knowledge and experience.

In a Dojo that may easily be reversed, and you would not see me question you all day long.

The problem with lack of experience is you always think you have enough...And you never realize you don't have enough.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Nightingale 0]

Would I listen to the yellow belt with an opinion, give him or her a chance to speak, and to test their theory? ABSOLUTELY.

And, if they happen to be wrong, I'd take the time to show them why. Its a learning opportunity.

I NEVER, EVER take on the attitude of "I am the instructor, you are the student, what I say is law, and you may not ever question me."

By taking the attitude you have, you create an environment that is hostile to newbies. If they can't ask a question or voice an opinion, how are they supposed to learn anything? Deal with the issue, not the person.

A conversation I had with a friend I was sparring with last week:

Christopher: would it work if I do it this way?
Me: probably not. you're dropping your guard on your left side. You're welcome to try it anyway, though.
Him: ok. lets see how it goes.
Me: *SMACK*
Him: Owwww. I guess that wasn't the best way to do it, was it?
Me: Nope. Do you understand why now?
Him: Because when I drop my guard on my left side to try to hit you, it creates an opening that you can get to me first.
Me: What would be a better way to do that?
Him: maybe like this?
Me: ok. lets try that.
Him: Hey! That's better!
Me: why?
Him: because I didn't leave my side open. I kept my elbow in so you couldn't get to me.
Me: yup.


If I'd just told him "my way's better, deal." the lesson would have been lost.


Sure, you have the people that won't listen no matter what you tell them. Those folks, in my classes, become my examples. Although THEY refuse to learn what I have to teach, they present a GREAT opportunity for me to use them to teach others.