windcatcher 0 #1 October 25, 2004 Hey guys, I need some precious newbie advice. I found a good deal on a canopy, I was wondering if I should go ahead and buy my first canopy, since it's such a good deal, or if I should make some coached jumps to get my A. Please do not tell me I should get my A before I buy my own gear, I plan on skydiving until I die. Anyways, since winter is coming up, I thought maybe I could go ahead and get the main, and only do maybe 1 jump a weekend, till I can save up enough to get a container/reserve.In a few months I'll have my own gear hopefully, and though I wanted to get my A quickly, I figure it's better to actually LEARN how to fly instead of just being obsessed w/ becoming licensed so quickly. So, even though I have a little money coming, and I could either put it towards coach jumps, or canopy, which would be a better investment? Once I have all my gear, I can jump more and learn quicker since my skydives will be cheaper. What do you guys suggest?? Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #2 October 25, 2004 There's always a good deal on a canopy. Always. How much jumping will you be doing if you blow all your money on a canopy? There's always a good deal on a canopy. Always. Repeat after me: "There's always a good deal on a canopy. Always." - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windcatcher 0 #3 October 25, 2004 Quote How much jumping will you be doing if you blow all your money on a canopy?Quote well, I can probably afford one jump every saturday for the next few months... I would think that would be enough to keep me current and learning a little,... Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nate_1979 9 #4 October 25, 2004 My "personal no-experiance but advice as a good friend" opinion is that you should do the coach jumps... Yes, it will be cheaper to jump once you own your own gear, but why not wait to buy a canopy until you can afford the rig... The canopy by itself isnt going to help you much without a container to put it in, soo... Get the 'A' Like the other person said, there is ALWAYS good deals on canopies if you look for them. Talk to you tomorrow! FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #5 October 25, 2004 As someone who recently put in the order for the rig, I'd say keep jumping. They don't have to be coached jumps if the cost is high (for my A, coach jumps with gear rental was $104, me doing my own jump with rental was $44) If winter there means a shutdown, you want to get in as many exits and landings as possible before. And in 20 more jumps, this canopy may no longer be as ideal for you. Or it might, but odds are you'll find another deal down the road, maybe a complete kit deal instead of going piece by piece. Buying this canopy means you need a container that it will fit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites yoink 321 #6 October 25, 2004 coached jumps - every time. You will find another good deal on a canopy later. Honestly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Merkur 1 #7 October 25, 2004 I would suggest to get some more jumps before you go for the canopy. What size would it be? In the beginning you will realize that you can easily downsize after you have your license. Don't get me wrong but most of the times student canopies are really really big and a natural tendency after having your A is to go for exactly the same size which is - in most cases - not necessary. (To all the people who now think I want to talk her into a 110 or so - I do not!) Just think about it - I went from a 320 (no, not a tandem, military rig) to a 290 (5 jumps), 275 (another 10 jumps), 235 (again 10 or so), 190 (20 jumps) to a 170 where I finally stopped for a while and later on went to a 150 which I still have. So don't go to big. And 1) There is always a good deal on a canopy 2) A canopy without the rest of the rig doesn't help much. blue skies M.vSCR No.94 Don't dream your life - live your dream! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyhighkiy 0 #8 October 25, 2004 what jimbo said "There's always a good deal on a canopy. Always" unless you get an absolutely unbelievable deal like...20 bucks for a nearly new canopy.(someone will tell you if it is) in looking for my gear, I remember looking all last winter and thinking "HOLY CRAP!!! this is an unbelievable deal!!!!" so I rushed and hurried and went to try and get it and jusut as I was going to send the money out, "HOLY CRAP!!! THIS IS AN EVEN BETTER DEAL!!!!!!"....and the cycle goes on, and on until finally, someone had near what I wanted and was charging something I could afford, who knew? you have a loooooooong time to look for gear....winter...bleh. BE THE BUDDHA! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gordy 0 #9 October 25, 2004 Coaching, coaching, coaching..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gordy 0 #10 October 25, 2004 Coaching, coaching, coaching..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #11 October 25, 2004 I actually don't agree with the prevailing opinion...(Go fiqure) There was a study done years ago in SCUBA diving. It said that people who own gear tend to dive more than people without gear. In my experience that tends to be true. Same thing with skydiving. If you own it, you will use it more. And while everyone is correct that there will always be a good deal on gear...Coaches will also always be around. I tend to think you will jump more once you have gear. Plus come coaches work for beer and a jump ticket. My opinion anyway."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyhighkiy 0 #12 October 25, 2004 I would agree with you if it wasn't for "Anyways, since winter is coming up" YOu people and your damn sunny conditions and year 'roundn beautiful skies!!! BE THE BUDDHA! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CanuckInUSA 0 #13 October 25, 2004 QuoteI tend to think you will jump more once you have gear. I'm with Ron on this one. I know of numerous new skydivers who: 1) Don't jump very often because they need to rent gear. 2) Don't jump at certain DZs because the gear rental is not cheap. 3) Complain about the rental gear because they are always jumping a different rig. 4) Complain that they are competing with other jumpers also needing the rental gear. Coaching (from qualified coaches) is worth the money we spend. But not all coaching is created equal. The person off of AFF (usually renting gear) needing some coaching may not known this, but the coach that they've hired may only have a couple of hundred of jumps themselves (could be a new coach) and who's to say that the coach is really qualified to given the advanced instruction we automatyically equate to coaching. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyangel2 2 #14 October 25, 2004 Did I read the post right, isn't it just a canopy that Windcather wants to buy? She still won't have anything to put it in. I say pass on the canopy and wait till you can find something that's all together: Rig with Main/cypress/reserve. It's going to be harder to find a rig with out the main.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #15 October 25, 2004 QuoteDid I read the post right, isn't it just a canopy that Windcather wants to buy? She still won't have anything to put it in. I say pass on the canopy and wait till you can find something that's all together: Rig with Main/cypress/reserve. It's going to be harder to find a rig with out the main. Yes, it would be better to get the whole system... But I have seen plenty of rigs without mains for sale. But any piece is a step closer...So if the main is the right type/size for her and its a good deal (Which we dont know since she has not told us anything about it...It may be a Nova 100 for 1,000 bucks) Its a step in the right direction. And the coach jumps will be there. She should try to stay current and get a rig...Jumping will be easier/cheaper once she has her own rig. My opinion anyway...I could be wrong."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites windcatcher 0 #16 October 25, 2004 The canopy I'm looking at is a PD 190, f111. I haven't jumped it yet, but my instructor/rigger says it would be a nice first canopy for me. It's less than $500, only has 230 jumps. Obviously,I will be able to buy the container/reserve in a few months, probably february. Since I am a poor college student and have a hard time coming up w/ a chunk of money, I figure it will be easier to buy the canopy ( if I like it) and pay for my jumps as I go. In a few months I will have another chunk of money, and that can go towards my container/reserve. I'll be able to learn so much more quickly once I have all my own gear. Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #17 October 25, 2004 Another idea is to put the money that you were going to put towards the canopy into a savings account for now and continue to stay current and learn and buy a rig once you get the money. Some DZ's are cool with you renting a rig and putting your main in it, others will make you still use their gear since they don't want someone tearing the rig apart every weekend. If thats the case you'll have a canopy sitting in a bag that you can't use till you buy the rest anyways. No matter what you'll probally still need to pay rental fees, and if you are doing that might as well abuse their rig and canopy and not yours Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andrewwhyte 1 #18 October 25, 2004 I can get you a PD190 with less than one hundred jumps on it for less than 500 bucks. PM me if you want. If you have the money for a used rig to put it in right away, you should consider buying the gear sooner rather than later for the reasons Ron and others have stated. If the canopy is going to sit in your closet you should just get the coaching. Coach jumps are expensive when you are a junior. Not as expensive as the massive amount I have spent on coaches trying (largely unsuccessfully) to rid me of the bad habits I acquired while teaching myself and being taught by those who didn't know any better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #19 October 25, 2004 Quote There was a study done years ago in SCUBA diving. It said that people who own gear tend to dive more than people without gear. In my experience that tends to be true. It was a somewhat selfserving study, if true. Renting dive gear, and esp tanks and weights, is a pain. Gotta get it back by closing, usually needs to be clean, and it doesn't fit on the back of a motorcycle. I haven't found renting jump rigs nearly as bad if they have suitable stuff for you. At my weight, that's not always a given. And for small people, same problem. But a canopy by itself, esp an F-111 type, doesn't seem like a step forward. Esp at nearly $500. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveNFlorida 0 #20 October 26, 2004 Get a canopy! You will jump more if you have your own gear... guaranteed! -A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites firstime 0 #21 October 26, 2004 DITTO Jimbo!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #22 October 26, 2004 QuoteBut a canopy by itself, esp an F-111 type, doesn't seem like a step forward. Esp at nearly $500. Around 500.00 for an F111 canopy is not really bad. And at a light WL it is a good canopy. It will not last as long as a ZP canopy...But you most likely will not put more than 200-300 jumps on it before you downsize. So its not a bad deal. I know I jumped more and felt better about the gear once I owned mine. I got my gear on jump #13 no AAD, no RSL. But it was mine, and I started jumping my butt off once I got it."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites windcatcher 0 #23 October 26, 2004 Thanks Ron! I think I may go ahead any buy it, if I like the way it flies...it would be so much easier on me financially if I buy the canopy w. a chuck of money, and save 3 months. for the rest, rather than try and save 3-6 months for everything. Besides, I won't put but a 100 jumps on it before I graduate college next year and can afford new gear w; a REAL job.I can still jump, at least once a weekend. That should be enough until I can get all my stuff in February. Thanks for all the advice guys! Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StevePhelps 0 #24 October 26, 2004 Sarah: Many of the coaches at SDA will jump with you for $0 or at the most a slot. I wish I could jump for $0 but you know my main job is having a hard time paying me -- but I'd do a coach jump anytime for a slot and I'll throw the video and stills for free. BTW I said I do one video/stills jump for free and that offer still stands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymama 35 #25 October 26, 2004 I think you should buy the canopy and start building your rig. I've never paid money for any coached jumps and I have still been able to improve my skills without it. I would pay for some coaching if I could, but the money just isn't there for that. There are many, many experienced jumpers at dz's who will jump with you and offer you free advice and if you're lucky you'll be able to get your jumps on video too. It's a way to give back to the sport because we all remember being a newbie and hoping someone with skills would jump with us. Ask around, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at who will jump with you.She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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nate_1979 9 #4 October 25, 2004 My "personal no-experiance but advice as a good friend" opinion is that you should do the coach jumps... Yes, it will be cheaper to jump once you own your own gear, but why not wait to buy a canopy until you can afford the rig... The canopy by itself isnt going to help you much without a container to put it in, soo... Get the 'A' Like the other person said, there is ALWAYS good deals on canopies if you look for them. Talk to you tomorrow! FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #5 October 25, 2004 As someone who recently put in the order for the rig, I'd say keep jumping. They don't have to be coached jumps if the cost is high (for my A, coach jumps with gear rental was $104, me doing my own jump with rental was $44) If winter there means a shutdown, you want to get in as many exits and landings as possible before. And in 20 more jumps, this canopy may no longer be as ideal for you. Or it might, but odds are you'll find another deal down the road, maybe a complete kit deal instead of going piece by piece. Buying this canopy means you need a container that it will fit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #6 October 25, 2004 coached jumps - every time. You will find another good deal on a canopy later. Honestly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Merkur 1 #7 October 25, 2004 I would suggest to get some more jumps before you go for the canopy. What size would it be? In the beginning you will realize that you can easily downsize after you have your license. Don't get me wrong but most of the times student canopies are really really big and a natural tendency after having your A is to go for exactly the same size which is - in most cases - not necessary. (To all the people who now think I want to talk her into a 110 or so - I do not!) Just think about it - I went from a 320 (no, not a tandem, military rig) to a 290 (5 jumps), 275 (another 10 jumps), 235 (again 10 or so), 190 (20 jumps) to a 170 where I finally stopped for a while and later on went to a 150 which I still have. So don't go to big. And 1) There is always a good deal on a canopy 2) A canopy without the rest of the rig doesn't help much. blue skies M.vSCR No.94 Don't dream your life - live your dream! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyhighkiy 0 #8 October 25, 2004 what jimbo said "There's always a good deal on a canopy. Always" unless you get an absolutely unbelievable deal like...20 bucks for a nearly new canopy.(someone will tell you if it is) in looking for my gear, I remember looking all last winter and thinking "HOLY CRAP!!! this is an unbelievable deal!!!!" so I rushed and hurried and went to try and get it and jusut as I was going to send the money out, "HOLY CRAP!!! THIS IS AN EVEN BETTER DEAL!!!!!!"....and the cycle goes on, and on until finally, someone had near what I wanted and was charging something I could afford, who knew? you have a loooooooong time to look for gear....winter...bleh. BE THE BUDDHA! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gordy 0 #9 October 25, 2004 Coaching, coaching, coaching..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gordy 0 #10 October 25, 2004 Coaching, coaching, coaching..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #11 October 25, 2004 I actually don't agree with the prevailing opinion...(Go fiqure) There was a study done years ago in SCUBA diving. It said that people who own gear tend to dive more than people without gear. In my experience that tends to be true. Same thing with skydiving. If you own it, you will use it more. And while everyone is correct that there will always be a good deal on gear...Coaches will also always be around. I tend to think you will jump more once you have gear. Plus come coaches work for beer and a jump ticket. My opinion anyway."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyhighkiy 0 #12 October 25, 2004 I would agree with you if it wasn't for "Anyways, since winter is coming up" YOu people and your damn sunny conditions and year 'roundn beautiful skies!!! BE THE BUDDHA! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #13 October 25, 2004 QuoteI tend to think you will jump more once you have gear. I'm with Ron on this one. I know of numerous new skydivers who: 1) Don't jump very often because they need to rent gear. 2) Don't jump at certain DZs because the gear rental is not cheap. 3) Complain about the rental gear because they are always jumping a different rig. 4) Complain that they are competing with other jumpers also needing the rental gear. Coaching (from qualified coaches) is worth the money we spend. But not all coaching is created equal. The person off of AFF (usually renting gear) needing some coaching may not known this, but the coach that they've hired may only have a couple of hundred of jumps themselves (could be a new coach) and who's to say that the coach is really qualified to given the advanced instruction we automatyically equate to coaching. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #14 October 25, 2004 Did I read the post right, isn't it just a canopy that Windcather wants to buy? She still won't have anything to put it in. I say pass on the canopy and wait till you can find something that's all together: Rig with Main/cypress/reserve. It's going to be harder to find a rig with out the main.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #15 October 25, 2004 QuoteDid I read the post right, isn't it just a canopy that Windcather wants to buy? She still won't have anything to put it in. I say pass on the canopy and wait till you can find something that's all together: Rig with Main/cypress/reserve. It's going to be harder to find a rig with out the main. Yes, it would be better to get the whole system... But I have seen plenty of rigs without mains for sale. But any piece is a step closer...So if the main is the right type/size for her and its a good deal (Which we dont know since she has not told us anything about it...It may be a Nova 100 for 1,000 bucks) Its a step in the right direction. And the coach jumps will be there. She should try to stay current and get a rig...Jumping will be easier/cheaper once she has her own rig. My opinion anyway...I could be wrong."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windcatcher 0 #16 October 25, 2004 The canopy I'm looking at is a PD 190, f111. I haven't jumped it yet, but my instructor/rigger says it would be a nice first canopy for me. It's less than $500, only has 230 jumps. Obviously,I will be able to buy the container/reserve in a few months, probably february. Since I am a poor college student and have a hard time coming up w/ a chunk of money, I figure it will be easier to buy the canopy ( if I like it) and pay for my jumps as I go. In a few months I will have another chunk of money, and that can go towards my container/reserve. I'll be able to learn so much more quickly once I have all my own gear. Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #17 October 25, 2004 Another idea is to put the money that you were going to put towards the canopy into a savings account for now and continue to stay current and learn and buy a rig once you get the money. Some DZ's are cool with you renting a rig and putting your main in it, others will make you still use their gear since they don't want someone tearing the rig apart every weekend. If thats the case you'll have a canopy sitting in a bag that you can't use till you buy the rest anyways. No matter what you'll probally still need to pay rental fees, and if you are doing that might as well abuse their rig and canopy and not yours Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #18 October 25, 2004 I can get you a PD190 with less than one hundred jumps on it for less than 500 bucks. PM me if you want. If you have the money for a used rig to put it in right away, you should consider buying the gear sooner rather than later for the reasons Ron and others have stated. If the canopy is going to sit in your closet you should just get the coaching. Coach jumps are expensive when you are a junior. Not as expensive as the massive amount I have spent on coaches trying (largely unsuccessfully) to rid me of the bad habits I acquired while teaching myself and being taught by those who didn't know any better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #19 October 25, 2004 Quote There was a study done years ago in SCUBA diving. It said that people who own gear tend to dive more than people without gear. In my experience that tends to be true. It was a somewhat selfserving study, if true. Renting dive gear, and esp tanks and weights, is a pain. Gotta get it back by closing, usually needs to be clean, and it doesn't fit on the back of a motorcycle. I haven't found renting jump rigs nearly as bad if they have suitable stuff for you. At my weight, that's not always a given. And for small people, same problem. But a canopy by itself, esp an F-111 type, doesn't seem like a step forward. Esp at nearly $500. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #20 October 26, 2004 Get a canopy! You will jump more if you have your own gear... guaranteed! -A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstime 0 #21 October 26, 2004 DITTO Jimbo!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #22 October 26, 2004 QuoteBut a canopy by itself, esp an F-111 type, doesn't seem like a step forward. Esp at nearly $500. Around 500.00 for an F111 canopy is not really bad. And at a light WL it is a good canopy. It will not last as long as a ZP canopy...But you most likely will not put more than 200-300 jumps on it before you downsize. So its not a bad deal. I know I jumped more and felt better about the gear once I owned mine. I got my gear on jump #13 no AAD, no RSL. But it was mine, and I started jumping my butt off once I got it."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windcatcher 0 #23 October 26, 2004 Thanks Ron! I think I may go ahead any buy it, if I like the way it flies...it would be so much easier on me financially if I buy the canopy w. a chuck of money, and save 3 months. for the rest, rather than try and save 3-6 months for everything. Besides, I won't put but a 100 jumps on it before I graduate college next year and can afford new gear w; a REAL job.I can still jump, at least once a weekend. That should be enough until I can get all my stuff in February. Thanks for all the advice guys! Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevePhelps 0 #24 October 26, 2004 Sarah: Many of the coaches at SDA will jump with you for $0 or at the most a slot. I wish I could jump for $0 but you know my main job is having a hard time paying me -- but I'd do a coach jump anytime for a slot and I'll throw the video and stills for free. BTW I said I do one video/stills jump for free and that offer still stands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 35 #25 October 26, 2004 I think you should buy the canopy and start building your rig. I've never paid money for any coached jumps and I have still been able to improve my skills without it. I would pay for some coaching if I could, but the money just isn't there for that. There are many, many experienced jumpers at dz's who will jump with you and offer you free advice and if you're lucky you'll be able to get your jumps on video too. It's a way to give back to the sport because we all remember being a newbie and hoping someone with skills would jump with us. Ask around, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at who will jump with you.She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
