Is skydiving too safe

[kevinwhelan 0]

Have we sanatised our sport to the extent where it should no longer be considered as "extreme"?

Before I ever jumped i thought " only mad people would do that"
Now that I am involved I see that it is all about safety I find that it is "so safe" that on occasion on a jump I have found it to be booring.
the equipment we use is so reliable that the risk now is miniumal compared to the jumpers who poineered the sport.
I read a lot about jumpers on high wing loadings getting hurt or worse and I think, are they not the true skydivers who still take "the risk"


edit: I am very drunk now and may regret posting this

"be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

[D22369 0]

Have we sanatised our sport to the extent where it should no longer be considered as "extreme"?

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Do you see a pause button?....it isnt like skateboarding where you can just stop and rest anytime you wish..


Before I ever jumped i thought " only mad people would do that

thats pretty much what everyone that hasnt tried it...


Now that I am involved I see that it is all about safety I find that it is "so safe" that on occasion on a jump I have found it to be booring.

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to me, you saying this is a signal that perhaps you should find another sport to play... cause what you just said screams


the equipment we use is so reliable that the risk now is miniumal compared to the jumpers who poineered the sport.

yes and no - the gear we use is more reliable and in general better condition than some of the old surplus gutter gear from years past, but now we have relatively new issues that are killing and injuring too many


I read a lot about jumpers on high wing loadings getting hurt or worse and I think, are they not the true skydivers who still take "the risk" ***

Its all about risk management, what is extreme to another may be normal to others. We try to minimize the risks, to do othewise would be stupid.

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[Ncrowe 0]

Go spend some time in the incident forum ...what exactly does too safe really mean? You'd feel better about jumping if more people were getting injured?

"Don't Mess Around With the Guy in Shades- Oh No!!! "

[bodypilot1 0]

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I find that it is "so safe" that on occasion on a jump I have found it to be booring.

I see a Bowling Ball in your future.



Be safe.
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[kevinwhelan 0]

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You'd feel better about jumping if more people were getting injured?

Oh God no! I dont ever want to see anybody hurt.
What i mean, is it not the danger that has attracted us to the sport? and after a while some see there is not the extreme danger they thought there
would be so they turn to swooping etc.???

"be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

[kevinwhelan 0]

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I see a Bowling Ball in your future.

I dont know but you could get badly hurt with one of them dam things

"be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

[Travman 6]

For me it has never been about the danger. I wouldn't do it if I didn't think it was safe. I wouldn't go on any jump I deemed to be unsafe.
Personally I enjoy the freedom of skydiving. From the time you leave the plane to getting your feet on the ground you are free and in control of your life.
There is nothing else that matters during that time.

[pilotdave 0]

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What i mean, is it not the danger that has attracted us to the sport?

For me, not at all. I like being in the air. I don't do dangerous things for the sake of living on the edge. If you want to say skydiving is too safe and not an extreme sport at all, that's just fine with me. Course I don't agree with you about that at all.

If you're at the point (is your jump number up to date??) that skydiving is boring to the point you might want to take extra risks (as opposed to just trying new things because they look fun), you might want to consider why you jump at all. If it's ONLY because you thought the sport was dangerous, you might be in more danger than you realize.

Dave

[Kris 0]

Safe? You do realize this is one of the only sports on the planet where the word "femur" is a verb, and that one can do everything right and still die?

Given that, there are things one can do to minimize their risks, but skydiving is not a safe sport and if you approach it like that...well, it has a way of reaching out at the most inopportune moments and forcing respect upon someone.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[kevinwhelan 0]

Sorry to all that has thken the time to reply' but it it is 3am here and I must sleep will reply when I wake up

"be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

[tbrown 26]

I feel wonderfully safe every time I leave the plane. It's a great feeling. But I know it's not as safe as it feels, or as safe as we'd like it to be. And it never will. I've had one injury that required surgery and a pin and I was really lucky to get off so easily. I'd have them cut my foot off before I ever quit jumping.

But if you think it's so safe that it's boring, stick around for a year or two. Especially if you jump at one of the bigger dropzones. You'll see some of your friends get their turn as crutch pilots, maybe you'll get a crack at it yourself. And then that awful day will come when you see - and hear - somebody eat it. And it just might be somone you know. It WILL happen. Then you won't feel so bored or safe anymore.

I'm not criticizing you, but I am warning you. What you're feeling is COMPLACENCY and you need to know it's the biggest killer in this game.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Have we sanatised our sport to the extent where it should no longer be considered as "extreme"?

"Extreme" sports are those which have been designated as such by people using them to sell drinks, people who wouldn't do them, and people who need to feel macho about what they're doing.

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Now that I am involved I see that it is all about safety I find that it is "so safe" that on occasion on a jump I have found it to be booring.

You can have any risk level you want skydiving.

[AndyMan 7]

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edit: I am very drunk now and may regret posting this

Um.... Yah.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[MarkM 0]

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Now that I am involved I see that it is all about safety

That's because for most everyone risk taking isn't about the risks, it's about experiencing things in life most people are afraid to try. Risking your life pointlessly is foolish, because without life you can't experience what's beyond the risks. So you do everything you can to minimize the risks so long as it doesn't negatively effect the experience that causes you to take the risks in the first place.

[JohnMitchell 14]

It's not perfectly safe. You're just kidding yourself. Each and every jump you make can kill you. Thinking otherwise is the quickest way to die.

I wish this sport was perfectly safe. I'd have a lot of friends who wouldn't be dead already.

Don't even worry about X-treme. That's a marketing tool to sell crap to boring people. I've been jumping since before it was "cool" and I hope to be here still when the "X-treme" merchandisers have moved on.

[/end rant]

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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would be so they turn to swooping etc.???

I am a swooper and I don't want to get hurt.

Skydiving is not safe. There may be more dangerous activities out there, but skydiving will never be a safe activity. We'll always find new ways to mess ourselves up.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[feuergnom 22]

you said that you were drunk when posting - so i will refrain from all the nasty things that popped into my mind

if you define safe by the numbers of incidents posted on this website: rest assured that there's a lot more going on in the real world .

many incidents (minor to major) don't get posted cause lots of people don't care about this website or put even more simply - cause they don't feel the need to let selfannounced i-know-it-all-because-i-have-been-there-and-done-experts trample on already beat up and injured people who made the experience that this sport will harm you (or one of your friends) sooner or later.....

so much for participating in a "safe" sport

end of rant/stay safe & uninjured

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[tombuch 0]

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edit: I am very drunk now and may regret posting this

Nice disclaimer!

Skydiving isn't "safe." Risk is partially that of a fatality, and partially that of an injury. Much of the actual risk is determined by the actions of the jumper and the decisions he/she makes, so we each have the ability to control, to some degree, our own risk exposure.

I wrote a quick feature about the specific risk for the S&TA area of The Ranch web site called "Skydiving Risk" available as article 7 at http://ranchskydive.com/safety/index.htm. The article is actually a modified version of some of the material that is in my book, "JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy." Here's a quote from the feature on The Ranch site:

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USPA data for 2000 shows that there were 32 fatalities, and there were 34,217 members of the organization that year. Using these figures defines a fatality rate of 1 per 1,069 members. The fatality numbers will vary significantly from year to year, but a ten year average of data collected between 1991 and 2000 shows one skydiving death was recorded for every 903 members. USPA single year data also show that members made an estimated 2,244,165 jumps in the year 2000, presenting a fatality rate of one death for each 70,130 skydives that year.

.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[DancingFlame 0]

Make a thousand jumps more. Then return and say again 'skydiving is safe'.

From what I've read skydiver with 80-120 jumps usually over-self-confident. That's one of the most dangerous periods when one thinks he is perfectly safe while he is actually not...

[kevinwhelan 0]

Not a reply to you as such just an explanation of what I actually meant.

I don't think Skydiving is Safe. What I mean is are we portraying skydiving as being safe? On a FJC I have found instructors emphasise all the safety features of a modern rig, reserve, aad etc. Tandems are marketed as little more than a fairground ride.
On my first jump course the standard warning 'Skydiving is a high risk activity which may cause injury or death" was pointed out but treated more as a joke or an advertising slogan.
My thoughts were, Is this attitude causing jumpers to look for additional risk? Such as downsizing too soon so as they can be called extreme

I think new jumpers are being told too often how safe skydiving is and not often enough how it may kill them

Edit It is morning now and my head hurts, maybe I made more sence when I was drunk

"be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

[digitalamnesia 0]

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For me it has never been about the danger. I wouldn't do it if I didn't think it was safe. I wouldn't go on any jump I deemed to be unsafe.
Personally I enjoy the freedom of skydiving. From the time you leave the plane to getting your feet on the ground you are free and in control of your life.
There is nothing else that matters during that time.

i totally agree

-------------------------------------------------------

if you wanna see the rainbow, you gotta put up with the rain

[LilZilla 2]

I agree with you. How are you supposed to enjoy a sport if your scared to death of doing it.

[tombuch 0]

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Not a reply to you as such just an explanation of what I actually meant.

I don't think Skydiving is Safe. What I mean is are we portraying skydiving as being safe? On a FJC I have found instructors emphasise all the safety features of a modern rig, reserve, aad etc. Tandems are marketed as little more than a fairground ride.
On my first jump course the standard warning 'Skydiving is a high risk activity which may cause injury or death" was pointed out but treated more as a joke or an advertising slogan.
My thoughts were, Is this attitude causing jumpers to look for additional risk? Such as downsizing too soon so as they can be called extreme

I think new jumpers are being told too often how safe skydiving is and not often enough how it may kill them.

Interesting way to ask the question…you make a lot more sense when you are sober.

There is a theory called “Risk Homeostasis Theory” that essentially says each person has an ideal or desired level of risk exposure, and we will alter our behavior to achieve that level. The level of risk that we find desirable will vary from person to person, and may be biologically determined. Additional research sort of moves around the issue, confirming and refuting parts of the original theory.

RHT was developed for road safety and suggested that improvements in roadways or traffic management devices would cause drivers to increase speed or take other chances to maintain their ideal level of risk while driving. Another example is that ski and snowboarders have been measured riding faster when they wear helmets, and RHT suggests this is because the helmet makes them feel like they are exposed to less risk, so they ramp up the speed to maintain their own ideal risk level. This phenomenon does a great job of explaining why some jumpers downsize so quickly, or become very aggressive under canopy after a few jumps.

One of the interesting things about risk is that our behavior is determined not by the actual risk, but by our perception of that risk. Thus, if we tell people a task or activity is very risky they may tend to modify their behavior to reduce the perceived risk. If we tell people a task or activity is not very risky they may tend to increase their exposure by pushing limits even further.

So, I think you may be right about the way we discuss risk in skydiving. That’s why I make a point of covering accident statistics at our safety day each year, and pounce so aggressively on folks who file posts that suggest skydiving is “safe.”
.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[rehmwa 2]

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are they not the true skydivers who still take "the risk"

You're in the sport for the wrong reasons then. If you need to prove something to yourself or others, then go try arrow catching.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[FlyinseivLP2 0]

Hey if he is bored with the sport, someone want to lend him their sub 100sq ft canopy. It seems that is what the rest of the other bored people in the sport have been doing. It adds alot of adrenaline (right up until the impact.)Havefun...Yahoooooo.....Thump