masterblaster72 0 #1 June 14, 2005 I was at a DZ over the weekend -- not my home DZ -- and their approach to the waiver was different than my home DZ's. After signing my waivers (I'm an almost- A-licensed newbie with 43 jumps) they sat me in front of a seven-minute video of a guy at a desk telling me the risks and the ramifications of me signing the waiver in case I die doing my jumps. To get his point across, he said the same thing many, many times in different wording. Understood. Then, they made me hold the waiver and had me stand in front of a camera and asked me to tell the camera that I understand and agreed to the terms in the contract. I thought that was a bit over the top, but then again, I'm not a DZ owner. That, along with the vibe at this DZ not being nearly as friendly as the one I go to, was quite sobering. I know that DZ's need to cover their asses and I completely understand their position, but my question is: why doesn't my home DZ (also a very large and well-known one) do this? I figure that since they all belong to USPA they would have the same procedures in place. Just curious...thanks. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookncrater 0 #2 June 14, 2005 Let me guess... California somwhere? I've had to do the video the signature/speech thing before in SoCal but I never had to watch the Bill Booth video except before my first tandem in another state though. I've only been to about a dozen or so DZs, but they are all a little different in my limited experience.________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #3 June 14, 2005 Let me guess... Perris was the DZ you were visiting? Or Hazelton?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookncrater 0 #4 June 14, 2005 lol, beat you... I had to do that at Elsinore myself actually.________________________________________________________________________________ when in doubt... hook it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstime 0 #5 June 14, 2005 I don't think the USPA would dictate insurance procedures such as this, I would not be offended with the video thingy, maybe because I am in the Ins biz?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #6 June 14, 2005 Three years ago the local DZ (USA) was still using a one paragraph waiver, that had to be updated ea yr for the fun jumpers. No comment on the value of USPA, lawyers, or waivers. BTW while traveling we had to initial those silly paragraph's with our initials "R.I.P." even at perris Signed full name at bottem R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #7 June 14, 2005 You obviously haven't jumped at Lodi yet."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #8 June 14, 2005 I had the video thing in Perris, Elsinore and I think in Eloy too, can't remember... You live in a sue happy country, this is one of the colateral damages to such an attitude. Not saying that it applies to majority of people, but any minority can hurt a lot in such cases.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #9 June 14, 2005 I felt the same at my vist to Perris last year. But put it down to 'Rules of the game' You get what you want......but they make it just that little bit clearer than other DZ's that its ALL on you.....you take the risks....you take the responsibility for your actions. I cant say I can criticise them for simply making that very obvious before they let you jump off one of their planes.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GARYC24 3 #10 June 14, 2005 Wow..they still do that? haha I did the same thing June 15, 1986 for a static line FJC! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #11 June 14, 2005 QuoteI had the video thing in Perris, Elsinore and I think in Eloy too, can't remember... You live in a sue happy country, this is one of the colateral damages to such an attitude. Not saying that it applies to majority of people, but any minority can hurt a lot in such cases. I find it hard to believe it's legally necessary, even in California, when skydiving is usually the classic example for assumption of risk doctrine. But if it makes things a bit easier and comfortable for the DZ, so be it. While I'm signing my name 50 times, they can do any gear and skills inspections they want to do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zep 0 #12 June 14, 2005 I did the video thing when I jumped at Elsinore, Took me three trys as I could'nt stop laughing, Thinking about it, it is abit OTT Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #13 June 14, 2005 QuoteThinking about it, it is abit OTT If you'd been named in multiple frivolous lawsuits you'd likely think differently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #14 June 14, 2005 Quote I find it hard to believe it's legally necessary, even in California, when skydiving is usually the classic example for assumption of risk doctrine.not necessarily leally, if I recall what I read here on teh forums it has no power in court, but it makes (or might make) some people think twice before doing the jump..scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkM 0 #15 June 14, 2005 Quote I find it hard to believe it's legally necessary, even in California, when skydiving is usually the classic example for assumption of risk doctrine. I'm betting they started doing it after some incident where they got sued for a particular reason. They may have even won the suit, but if you can make the waiver as rock solid as possible it could make it easier to have a judge throw out the suit to begin with. Getting sued is expensive even if you win. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Monkeyb 0 #16 June 14, 2005 I did the video thing at Elsinore when I went tandem in March of '03, didn't bug me at all, it's takes all of 20 seconds! Initialling stuff 800 times over bothered me more than the video clip. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #17 June 14, 2005 QuoteQuoteThinking about it, it is abit OTT If you'd been named in multiple frivolous lawsuits you'd likely think differently. Do they still have the paragraphs #? that if you don't want to waive your right to sue you agree to pay extra $xx to jump. IOW Keep your money dude the doors over there. #? If you sign this waiver agreeing not to sue and sue us anyway you agree to pay everyone listed in your lawsuit $25k. IOW plaintiff attorney you lose your client maynot have to pay you but will pay $$$. We heard Mr Booth tried to get his $25k once but it could be a urban legend. We've also heard in the skydive business in spite of the comprehensive waivers, video's, warning, gravity etc that some people still come up with stupid shit to sue over. But it could be just a urban legend. R.I.P. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #18 June 14, 2005 QuoteWe've also heard in the skydive business in spite of the comprehensive waivers, video's, warning, gravity etc that some people still come up with stupid shit to sue over. But it could be just a urban legend. People still come up with stupid shit to sue over, even after all the initialing, video watching and taking, signing and warnings. And they don't really care if the businesses and/or people named in their suits had anything to do with their "injury." A few years ago the large gear dealer I worked for was named in a lawsuit. Seems they had sold some gear to an instructor who also sells gear. That instructor later sold the rig to the person who filed the suit. The person fucked up and got hurt. The dz, the instructor who sold him the rig and the gear dealer who sold the gear to the instructor (amongst others) were all named in the lawsuit. I can't answer the other questions because I haven't had to sign a waiver at Perris or Elsinore since the first time I jumped there back in the '90's. Which is why I find this whole thread funny - I mean really, you only have to do the getting videoed thing once, unlike some dz's that require their locals to sign a new waiver every year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #19 June 15, 2005 QuoteI mean really, you only have to do the getting videoed thing once, unlike some dz's that require their locals to sign a new waiver every year. Quite a few, it seems, though at least one (Monterey) might be driven by the Marina Airport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #20 June 15, 2005 PErsonally.. I like the annual waiver thing. How else are they going to have your current medical conditions and emergency contacts on file? Do you still have the same phone number now that you had 5 years ago? Any new medical conditions? Thing like this need updated yearly.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #21 June 15, 2005 QuoteDo you still have the same phone number now that you had 5 years ago? Any new medical conditions? Thing like this need updated yearly. Yup. And Perris has a form for this - it asks for just the pertinent info (address, phone numbers, email, emergency contacts, medical info) instead of making you do the whole waiver again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #22 June 15, 2005 QuoteYou obviously haven't jumped at Lodi yet. Lodi is not a USPA DZ. Your waiver is on the back of your jump ticket if you've ever looked! Be safe. Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #23 June 15, 2005 QuoteI had the video thing in Perris, Elsinore and I think in Eloy too, can't remember... Eloy doesnt, or at least if they've started havent been making the locals do it.. i've done it at perris and elsinore and while i understand it i thought it was pretty silly both times... my favorite waiver is less than half a page long...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #24 June 15, 2005 QuoteEloy doesnt, or at least if they've started havent been making the locals do it.. No we don't do it local or otherwise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #25 June 15, 2005 Quote QuoteYou obviously haven't jumped at Lodi yet. Lodi is not a USPA DZ. Your waiver is on the back of your jump ticket if you've ever looked! Be safe. Ed Oh, I know it's not USPA. Just pointing out an example of the other extreme of waiverdom. And I paid cash when I was there last month. Was never issued a jump ticket. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
