I've gotta learn to land!!!

[Evelyn 0]

I've been skydiving for over 2 years, 300+ skydives, 2 canopy classes and I still can't always stand up my landings! What is wrong with me??? Granted the winds at Perris can be challenging, but last weekend out of 6 jumps only 3 were good stand up landings. As for the other 3 - 1) I was first down and couldn't see well due to old contacs and dirty visor. Didn't realize I was doing a downwind landing until it was too late to change. 2) Flared and got pushed into a turn by winds on landing. 3) Flared and got picked up and dropped down by winds. Not making excuses for crappy landings cuz I should be able to stand up my landings regardless of conditions, but I can't. I'm getting really frustrated. I'm going to hire a canopy coach to work with me on landings. Just posting this to see if there are other landing challenged skydivers who can empathize with me.

Life is either a daring adventure or nothing ~ Helen Keller

[AggieDave 6]

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2) Flared and got pushed into a turn by winds on landing.

Are you sure you did?

You're moving in a river of air, you might go sideways, forward or backwards, but turns come from input (save of course odd turbulence/thermals).

The large majority of the landings I've seen in that regard tend to happen when people get out of their element then don't flare evenly.

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Not making excuses for crappy landings cuz I should be able to stand up my landings regardless of conditions, but I can't

Bullshit, standups don't always happen no matter how many jumps you have.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[tdog 0]

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and dirty visor

Just after making sure my canopy is open and good and the airspace is clear I open my visor. I can do it so quickly I often do it while looking for other opening canopies and counting my 4way team mates...

I find the wind in the face, along with zero possibility of glare/frost/fog to be refreshing while landing. I don't think I have EVER landed with my visor closed...

But that is just me.

[jasonRose 0]

Take this post with my jump numbers in mind!!! (Meaning I really don't know shit)

Wind is almost always a factor at our DZ but I have learned to really like it. It makes for nice slow landings which seem easy to stand up.

With that said I have sealed my fate for some bad landings in my future.

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[Maxim 0]

See where as iam different from the start i have always loved nill wind days.. nice landings no cross winds or breeze's to worry about. nice fast powerful flared landings.

Life is Great. Even Greater what we do with it.

[RkyMtnHigh 0]

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I've been skydiving for over 2 years, 300+ skydives, 2 canopy classes and I still can't always stand up my landings! What is wrong with me??? Granted the winds at Perris can be challenging, but last weekend out of 6 jumps only 3 were good stand up landings. As for the other 3 - 1) I was first down and couldn't see well due to old contacs and dirty visor. Didn't realize I was doing a downwind landing until it was too late to change. 2) Flared and got pushed into a turn by winds on landing. 3) Flared and got picked up and dropped down by winds. Not making excuses for crappy landings cuz I should be able to stand up my landings regardless of conditions, but I can't. I'm getting really frustrated. I'm going to hire a canopy coach to work with me on landings. Just posting this to see if there are other landing challenged skydivers who can empathize with me.

I'll empathize with ya Evelyn...BTW, there isn't anything "wrong" with you. I understand your frustration as I'm going thru the same thing. I equate my landings to golf...I have good days and not so good landing days. The scenario which throws me off the most is dealing with uneven flare when I get a gust crosswind.

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[DancingFlame 0]

It's only 2 yrs and 300 jumps. I know people having more that 400 that still land with butt-sliding every jumps.

[gus 1]

Everyone takes a dive now and again but if 3 out of 6 is a typical success rate then maybe you need to be looking at some things. I don't mean that to sound harsh, what I mean is that it's your safety on the line. If you're falling over alot it suggests that something's wrong and if something's wrong it suggests you're more likely to hurt yourself.
How happy are you with your canopy? Could changing/upsizing improve your progression? Also, stuff like old contacts, dirty visors and dodgy wind conditions are really easy links in the accident chain to remove. And More coaching is a great idea.

Good luck
Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[mr2mk1g 10]

Get video of your landings the next time your at the DZ. Just do this even if you haven’t got anyone to show it to. You should be able to critique yourself if you're doing something majorly wrong - you know what other people look like when they flair, you can see how you differ.

You'd be surprised how difficult it is to actually know what you're body's doing when it's running on autopilot or you're thinking too had such as during a landing. Video will show you exactly what you're doing and you might be surprised.

Then track down a coach and show them the video too if you want. If you don't see an improvement from simply looking at your video yourself then definitely find a coach.

[hookncrater 0]

Allocate a whole day of jumping to just doing H&Ps with a coach and get video.

I know I still sometimes have the "did not complete the flare" problem when I land straight in. Must be because I love surfing across the grass.

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when in doubt... hook it!

[GTAVercetti 0]

Not me personally, but there is a woman at my DZ who has around 800 jumps and still slides most in. They are never hard landings, that is just the way she does it.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Spizzzarko 0]

Check it...

The atmoshpere is not a constant enviroment. It is always changing from many factors. A lot of those factors can not be seen with the human eye. The biggest thing I see people doing on landing is... just flaring. They do this mechanical motion of facing into the wind and bringing their arms down, and they expect that is supposed to give them good landings. Unfortunately this will never be the case, as the atmosphere is constantly changing. You need to constantly fly your canopy through the flare. True the flare in it's simplist form is the mechanical motion of bringing your toggles down, but if you break it down into several parts then you will find that to do it properly, it is much more complex.

You say "Flared and got pushed into a turn by winds on landing."

I say that you didn't correct for the winds with your flare. You can do this by ever so slightly flaring more on the side that the wind is blowing from. If you are still being forced to turn, then make more input to counteract what the wind is doing to you.

You say "Flared and got picked up and dropped down by winds."

I say you flared and held what you had. This will pick you up, especially if you flared to fast or to much for the wind conditions. Now you find yourself high over the ground with no flare left. This can be remedied by only flaring as much as you need to keep your feet an inch off the ground for as long as possible. This may not be the typical flare where you just bring your arms down in one motion. You may reach a point in your flare that you don't need to flare any more for a second or two, and then you will need to finish your flare. Some people call this "the two stage flare". I absolutly abhore that term. There is nothing two staged about a flare. When done properly, a flare is a continual flying of the canopy, while adding more lift. I like to call it a "Dynamic Flare".

Don't get down on yourself, about your landings. You must continually seek improvement. You can do this through coaching. Be carefull whom you get your coaching from, as there are many people who will open their yaps just to hear themselves speak, but will tell you bad information.

Grant

[bwilling 0]

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I was first down and couldn't see well due to old contacs and dirty visor.

That's a huge issue for me, I won't land looking thru any of the relatively poor optical quality lenses that we use to protect our eyes while skydiving!

That issue aside, what are you focusing on when landing? Pure mechanics? Or feel?

Bill Von wrote a great article on continuity, and it contained this segment regarding canopy control & landing...

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Or take just flaring a canopy. I often hear people asking "I just got a Sabre2 loaded at 1.3 to 1. Should I flare to my shoulders? Or my chest?" And my first thought is always - if you're still thinking of where you should put your hands, you're not ready for a 1.3 to 1 canopy. A flare is a dynamic event, one that is driven by the canopy's speed, descent rate, the surface you're landing on, your weight, and half a dozen other variable. Inputs you can use are your eyes, the feeling of wind on your face, the tension in the brake lines, the feeling of deceleration when you flare, the noise of the wind in the lines - and many of those inputs _have_ to be used to get a good landing. There is no one position for the toggles that will make that good landing happen.

Is it possible that you're focusing too much on the mechanics of landing, and not enough on feel? When I jump a canopy for the first time, and I'm doing practice flares up high, that's exactly what I try to concentrate on, the feel, because obviously at that point, there's not a good visual reference, I'm too high for that... but on landing, I just try to duplicate that same feel.

That said, really hot, humid days still kick my ass! I haven't developed a good feel for landing in those conditions!

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[tigra 0]

My landings have gotten a lot better after 2 Scott Miller basic canopy control classes but they aren't all stand-ups. One thing I have learned after not one but 2 broken ankles is never to force a stand up landing. The ground at my dz was hard and dry on Saturday and the landings were FAST. I slid them in, nice and soft and SAFE. Concentrate of flaring evenly, finshing your flare and flaring at the right time. The rest will come.

[kevinwhelan 0]

What I found a great help to me in my flare was to think of it more like,
"I am not flaring to land but to stop me from landing."
I want to fly straight as close to the ground for as long as I can without touching it. If I feel I am dropping that last few inches I try to add more lift until I have no more forward speed left ,or no more toggel travel, in that case it sometimes needs a few quick steps.

Works for me but what do I know?

"be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

[skybill 22]

Hi Ev,
'Nothing wrong, you just jump at Perris!! For as many jumps I've made at Perris I'd have to say that the winds are the some of the trickiest I've encountered. When you're landing from the south to the north accross the runwayfrom the pool on a typical summer afternoon there's that shear line that will kick your if you don't know about it!! You may have some more learning to do about flying your parachute or maybe I should say the relationship of you and your canopy in the "constantly changing" atmosphere you're in!! Onward!! We used to have a windsock accross the runway from the pool and another on the north side accros from the A/C parking ramp and watch people crash in the middle when the tails of both socks are sticking straight out pointing at each other!!! In the middle is that "shear line" and I've seen it do some doozies both to canopys landing and in the air. One day a couple of cases of beer ago Allen Richter and I were watching some landings over "the shear" here comes Johnny Dangerously at bout 4 or 5 hundred feet and his canopybucks and folds up like it's trying to pack itself!!! Down he comes!!! He cuts away, pulls his reserve and gets open with his feet about 50 to 75' above the ground!!! About 1/2 way thru this process I realize that it's him and that's the reserve I just packed for him a couple of days before!!! WOW!!!!!!!! You gripe about bad landings at Perris??? Any landing you walk away from (or crawl under your own power) is a good one!! Take into consideration not only your flying skills but also your enviornment!! Smooth dry air at a steady 5 knots from a constant direction only happens when we're not at the DZ!! Here at Raeford because of the wierd tree lines and DZ size we have a really great wind "Dragon" and it can really kick!! Ask conservative Kate Greiser how she got the plates in her leg!! Compliments of the Dragon. Don't be so hard on yourself about your landings. You're doing OK!!! Lots of good ideas in these posts too!!

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[wmw999 2,334]

Don't ever be ashamed of falling down, getting back up, and making another jump. You can always improve your landings, but if you see a standup as success, and a fall as failure, then you're setting yourself up to trade safety for success sometimes.

Consider a walk-away as a success, and a standup as frosting. Your gear is there to protect you, and not the other way around.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[tso-d_chris 0]

First, standing up your landing is not the best characteristic to define success. A soft landing that ends in a butt slide is a better landing than one on which you land hard on your feet, IMO. Remember, the goal is to avoid injury, not to just look cool.

It sounds like you might need to have some of your landings videoed by a good canopy coach to work on your fundamentals. It is really tough to diagnose problems sight unseen.

Kudos to you for recognizing there is room for improvement, and actually seeking help.

For Great Deals on Gear

[HydroGuy 0]

I feel you on those Perris winds...they love to change direction, speed etc.

You've said you took the canopy course...did you take it @ Perris? I just took a course @ Perris a couple weeks ago...my instructor was Clint. He helped me tons.

I'm not going to offer any advice, but I was having problems with numbers two and three on your list...Clint helped me with both. The pop up only happened on rare occasions, but I was glad it happened once while Clint was filming. When I popped back up, I was reaching for the ground with one arm and toggle, while letting the other arm and toggle go straight up, resulting in a tumble to the ground. In other words, I just wasn't holding my flare properly. I would NEVER have known I was doing this if I couldn't see myself doing it on video. Apparently it's not that uncommon.

Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

[Deuce 1]

I can fix it!

You are loaded 1:1 on an elliptical parachute. Your Pilot has a good affirmative flare when you flare it right.

Let's talk about what's going wrong, and even if it's consistent.

-I have no desire to teach people to swoop, and I don't necessarily think that swoopers are the best resource for the rest of us that just want to skim some grass and slide to a nice giggling stop after a spectacular freefall.

One of the things my students find most usefull is knowing where the 12 foot place is to start the flare. You know where it is? It's on that balcony overlooking the hotties at the pool when you are on vacation. That distance, from the first floor balcony (second for my Euro buddies) that overlooks the pool or the beach.

Visualize that. That's where you start. Now, if you stab down right there you will surge up, probably, and you better just hold those toggles all the way down there and PLF.

But that second-story balcony is the beginning of really good landings. When you get there, pull your toggles to get affirmative control of the canopy and then just practice timing until you have a full flare just a moment after your feet start skimming the grass or that brown talcum powder they have at Perris.

The distance to the ground where you start your flare is completely unrelated to how fast you are moving over the ground. If you got last year's dropzone.com video you have me doing about 50mph over the grass as I screw up (on a Guiness World Record scale) and do a downwinder unintentionally. The pace of the flare does not change. The flare is how you slow down how fast you are approaching the ground vertically. It's just hard to disregard the horizontal speed, and you may just be too smart to block it out like I do.

OK? Flaring is about decellerating your vertical momentem. You can be going downwind or crosswind, but you are using the flare to slow down your contact with the planet. Ideally it's into the wind and you look like a rock star, but even if you don't get it quite right you get the slowing down as you approach the planet part right regardless of the crosswind.

Into the wind. Second story pool hotties. Flare a little to make sure it's working, and then finish out so that you are out of flare when you are out of forward speed.

You rock.

Remember. You rock.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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1) I was first down and couldn't see well due to old contacs and dirty visor. Didn't realize I was doing a downwind landing until it was too late to change.

Wow, be careful! Sight is very important for landings. Not standing up was the least of your worries here, really, it could've been worse.

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2) Flared and got pushed into a turn by winds on landing.

The winds were squirley? Did others have problems? Did you land off the windline? Are you sure you are flaring evenly?

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I should be able to stand up my landings regardless of conditions..

nonsense, if you think like this you'll soon break something. Get it out of your head that it is all important to stand up. When the winds pick you up and drop you, PLF! Do not try to stand that up! If you are doing a downwind landing, slide it in, do not stand that up!

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I'm going to hire a canopy coach to work with me on landings.

That is never a bad idea, canopy coaching is a great help and it is out there for our benefit so take advantage. There is nothing better than rush of a good landing, it is worth the money to invest in coaching!

I saw the post about flaring at 12 feet, I see that I have much less experience than that poster but this would be much too soon for a lot of people. I do not start my flare at 12 feet for a straight in landing, but you need to feel your canopy out and a coach can help you do that! :)

Edit to add that spizzarko's info on flaring was really good, if you read it, read it again. There has been some really good info in this thread. Oh, and also to add to do more high pulls, even if you just exit last and pull at 7grand and play with your canopy, turns, flares, flare-turns, flat turns. Really feel it out! :)

Good luck and cheer up!
Angela.

[Amanda965 0]

Like RkyMtn, I also empathize with ya. I know how to flare and land and often times have perfect days with all tip-toed landings with my Spectre. On the other hand, some days I continuously mess up the landings and attribute it to a few different things that I will pose as questions to you:

- Have you had anyone check out your canopy to make sure the brakelines are the correct/same length?

- If you are telling yourself that you have landing problems, do you think perhaps it is having an unconscious impact on your landings (making you apprehensive or nervous?)

- When you get to the ground, are you preparing to move (run/walk) if nessary or are your feet stationary? (I guess this is dumb, but sometimes I do not stand up my landings just because I failed to "hit the ground running."

Good luck!! I have heard lots of times before that landings are something that females often times have problems with (a little more than males) for some reason or another, but I'm not sure why.

Blue skies and SAFE landings!
~Amanda~

[happythoughts 0]

First, you probably are doing something different than you think. I know a person with 1500 jumps who thinks they flares, but does not.

1. Get someone to video your landing and review it with an instructor. You are not learning to swoop, just land.

2. Look at the video and make sure that your arms are flaring all the way down. Many people just go 3/4 of the way.

3. Before you jump, visualize what your approach and flare. Figure out how it "feels" to flare so that you come to a complete stop about 18 inches above a particular spot. With a good, full flare, your canopy will gently set you down.

[bigway 4]

Maybe you are not sitting back in your harness? this would make you reach out with you legs to land. If you sit in your harness you will land nicely without reaching. I imagine you already know this so doubt it is the problem but this is what i thought of from reading your post.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[adobelover 0]

Thank you Evelyn for this thread. I too have very frustrated by my lack of stand up landings...at least now I am no longer flaring too high, thanks to having someone tape my landings. There are a bunch of great tips that these jumpers have submitted and I will practice with the additional advice. Thank all of you! I have also learned by video taping the landings of others that not all of the "experienced" skydivers have stand ups and that a soft butt landing is preferable than trying to stand one up & breaking something in the process! IMHO...ANY landing you can walk away from is a GOOD landing!
Good Luck, Blue Skies and Soft Landings.

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Old age ain't no place for sissies!