HydroGuy 0 #1 August 13, 2005 Say you did an exit holding on to someones harness, or were at any point of freefall docked or what not, and the person became unconscious for what ever reason. What would/should you do? I did a two way exit today from the Skyvan and for some reason I jumped a little as I ran out, and bashed my helmet into the top of the ramp. It was loud enough that the two way cameras behind me mikes recorded the bang over the sound of the engines. Scared the heck out of the girl I was jumping with. And she asked me what she should have done if I was knocked out. I didn't have an answer for her.Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #2 August 13, 2005 Deploy them as soon as you are able. I probably go for the reserve instead of the main, as most skydivers mains are high performance these days. An unconscious skydivers body goes limp and may get very hard to control if you delay. But this is just my opinion.... Be safe. Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,476 #3 August 13, 2005 >and the person became unconscious for what ever reason. What would/should you do? Depends on their gear and your skills. If you have the ability, get him on his belly, and see if he comes to. If not, deploy him high enough so you have time to deploy as well. Main/reserve decision depends on the size of their canopies. I would normally say reserve, but with so many people seriously undersizing their reserves lately, it's a harder call. The one time I had to do it I went for reserve. She landed OK. If you do not have the ability, it is almost certainly better to say a little prayer to Helmut than to chase the person past your deployment altitude. AFF-JM's have gone in chasing students before; if you don't have that sort of experience and you're getting towards the bottom end of the skydive, it might be better to ensure that at least one of you survives. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #4 August 13, 2005 well if you are close enough and have the experience you can try to chase the other jumper and get a main out. or if you're new or if you think you'll just add to the mess you can freefall to the planned pull point(as long as that person is not above you.) and pull your own parachute and hope that the other jumper has an ADD and that it works. we all know the risks. if you don't than you need to do alot of research. the scenario is if you were knocked out on exit. IF you were doing a two way with me I would try to get your ass into a a belly to earth position for a few seconds.if I could NOT do that I would basically fly with you down to about 5k and pull your main.(if that was an option) if I was ALREADY there and you started to put ME out of control I would probably dump your main there and get my self to safety. but i would not endanger my own life even further by trying to pull some shit you see in the cutaway movie. my pull altitude is my pull altitude. I can adjust it higher if need be but I won't push it lower if I can help itMy photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #5 August 13, 2005 they both have a great point of the reserve but I was using YOU as an example since you were the one that hit your head. I saw that you are on a 188. I was also assuming that i would have known that prior to our jump. in that case I would have dumped your main.(even though the reserve is probably STILL a better choice.My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #6 August 13, 2005 I would probably lean towards the reserve, since I would think that it has less chance for line overs and other nasty malfunctions that an unconscious person may not be able to act on.... Requires a less stable deployment position as well from what I understand.. FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #7 August 13, 2005 In the event one of you has to do this on me, please go for my reserve. cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #8 August 13, 2005 O.K But getting to the reserve handle may be more difficult than say the BOC.... It would depend upon relative body positions (and time available) - wouldn't it? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #9 August 13, 2005 Quoteif I could NOT do that I would basically fly with you down to about 5k and pull your main.(if that was an option) if I was ALREADY there and you started to put ME out of control I would probably dump your main there and get my self to safety. I thought about this scenario this morning... At first I thought, "Ride the unconscious person down to the second half of the skydive and pull there - so they have a greater chance of landing near the DZ where medical treatment is easier to direct than way off where it might be harder to find the person... Also, it would cut time from the critical minutes... But then I changed my mind... Depending on the injury, the unconscious person has a good chance of waking up after a few minutes (and if they don't the odds are high they won't ever) so a longer canopy ride could help the ones that are gonna live... So, I changed my mind... I would deploy them the second I could then deploy myself. I now jump with a cell phone always, so I would call manifest and tell them to manage the situation including calling 911 and getting the chase car going... Then I would land as near to my friend as possible where I could land safe... But, that is just me... Thanks for posting this thread... Now I have a plan (which might change once the more experienced guys say their bits) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tdog 0 #10 August 13, 2005 QuoteIn the event one of you has to do this on me, please go for my reserve. Not saying it is right or wrong... But I looked at your profile and found the size of your main and reserve are about the same and not that highly loaded... So I am just wondering why you think this? I have some ideas, but I rather hear yours before I prompt you to see if I guessed right... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanglesOZQld 0 #11 August 13, 2005 With a person unable to deploy would definitely go the reserve if possible. My reserve and main are the same size and I would definitely prefer my reserve to my main if I wasn't in a position to fly it properly ;) A lot DOES though as mentioned rely on what stage of the jump, whether or not you have a grip on the other person, what their falling state is(belly to earth, on back or spinning etc). A lot of different answers here.......... At least some of us have thought about the what ifs though and that does help a lot down the track at times! BSBD! -Mark. "A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #12 August 13, 2005 When I found myself in this situation a few years ago, I did what any self respecting video-guy would do. I tried my best to shoot good video. Crappy video posted here: http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=393 In the event I witnessed, a unconcious jumper ended up spinning away from a ten way. A few AFF instructors who happened to be on the jump chased him, and noticed he had started to respond after a few seconds. The guy ended up pulling for himself 10 seconds after the incident. My limited experience is that someone is most likely going to go unconscious due to a colision, and that means you won't be holding onto them. You'd have to chase them, and they'll likely be spinning. Deploying a spinning skydiver is extremely dificult - and dangerous. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites grue 1 #13 August 13, 2005 QuoteQuoteIn the event one of you has to do this on me, please go for my reserve. Not saying it is right or wrong... But I looked at your profile and found the size of your main and reserve are about the same and not that highly loaded... So I am just wondering why you think this? I have some ideas, but I rather hear yours before I prompt you to see if I guessed right... Because I didn't pack the reserve :)cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites HydroGuy 0 #14 August 13, 2005 My initial thought was to pull the reserve immediately...hopefully they wake up somewhere with a little altitude remaining. After I posted this last night, I tossed other ideas around in my head. Like if you knew they had a cypress, let them go down till it fires. They would be low to the ground and will probably land on the dz. But then you are relying on that technology. And they would be deploying very unstable. If you pulled their reserve high, depending on the winds @ Perris they could end up on the 215, or the reclamation center on Goetz...maybe even Elsinore (ok, that's an exaggeration.) That canopy with brakes stowed is going to travel a distance with some wind. I now think I would ride them down to like 3 or 4k and pull their reserve, dumping my main right after. Hope this always stays a hypothetical situation for me.Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KCJumper 0 #15 August 13, 2005 I was freeflying with a guy who was knocked out by our camera guy. They managed to float into one another. I didn't even know what had happened till i saw the guy on the ground with a reserve out. He landed still knocked out. So as far as chasing someone i would as long as altitude provided. Patrick Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #16 August 13, 2005 I now think I would ride them down to like 3 or 4k and pull their reserve, dumping my main right after. *** WRONG ANSWER! You are dealing with an EMERGENCY situation, you deal with it as quickly as possible. The winds and landing area are secondary issues, problems are possibly compounded by waiting to initiate action. What if you lose the person, or they start spinning and knock YOU out? What if they wake up, panic and fire in your face? You have minimal experience to begin with, if you were to find yourself in that situation...fire their reserve, fire your main right after and FOLLOW THEM DOWN to assist. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #17 August 13, 2005 I didn't even know what had happened till i saw the guy on the ground with a reserve out. He landed still knocked out. *** AAD or did someone pull for him? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites HydroGuy 0 #18 August 13, 2005 Quote You have minimal experience to begin with, if you were to find yourself in that situation...fire their reserve, fire your main right after and FOLLOW THEM DOWN to assist. With my minimal experience you can be sure of one thing...I will not be following anyone to an off-field landing.Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tdog 0 #19 August 13, 2005 QuoteWith my minimal experience you can be sure of one thing...I will not be following anyone to an off-field landing. I am surprised you say that... Ok sure, I agree, following someone to high density development or trees would not be a good thing, but why not if they are over open areas where you always know where *you* can land? After doing some balloon jumps, I guess I have the confidence to land someplace I have never, ever, ever have been before, like on a dirt cul-de-sac in a neighborhood under construction ... To me, landing off is not a big deal, and I feel I am safer having that confidence in case I have to land off... I would 100% have the confidence to follow an injured friend to the nearest safe place to land where they are landing... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #20 August 13, 2005 QuoteQuote You have minimal experience to begin with, if you were to find yourself in that situation...fire their reserve, fire your main right after and FOLLOW THEM DOWN to assist. With my minimal experience you can be sure of one thing...I will not be following anyone to an off-field landing. *** Trust me ...parachutes work other places besides the DZ! But if you're really uncomfortable with your ability to land off the DZ, what makes you so confident you can play James Bond in Free Fall?! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #21 August 13, 2005 I would 100% have the confidence to follow an injured friend to the nearest safe place to land where they are landing... *** Which is really all I'm saying... even if you land 1/2 a mile away in a safe open area, that's still most likely puts you closer than other available help. I know I'm just a grumpy ole fart...but these skills are VERY important to master! There are a number of reasons you need the ability to land almost anywhere. Aircraft emergency, accidental deployment, DOING DEMOS! Get yourself into the habit of looking out of the aircraft and picking out possible landing areas in case of an emergency...look for flags waving or smoke rising to determine wind direction and velocity. Know how you canopy 'feels' downwind, crosswind and upwind. This is basic safety stuff! Work on your accuracy EVERY jump...if you can land in the peas, you can make a backyard..or an open street... Granted I have experience doing it, but if I couldn't consistently land standing up in an area I may have never even seen before, at NIGHT...I'd be out of a job! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mdrejhon 8 #22 August 13, 2005 QuoteWith my minimal experience youcan be sure of one thing...I will not be following anyone to an off-field landing.In a TRUE emergency situation.... After landing off-field a few times under big student and beginner rental canopies from bad spots, I'd do it at MY dropzone where I am now familiar. It's a rural location with lots of farmland, and I just stay away from straight lines (which could be roads, wiring, fences, etc) along with other general rules of thumbs about making sure there are several alternative landing areas in case I'm blown backwards, etc. Not a problem at a rural dropzone where there are tons of outs, second chances and third chance landings. In a city dropzone at my jump numbers, I'd be very nervous of the unfamiliar territory and having to land in those tiny backyards, I'm not ready to do a "unplanned demo landing" inside an urban area yet....at my jump numbers..... Although I'd try to see if there are big parks and fields with wide open areas scattered throughout the place (plenty of "outs") if I still had plenty of altitude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 26 #23 August 13, 2005 QuoteThere are a number of reasons you need the ability to land almost anywhere. Aircraft emergency, accidental deployment, DOING DEMOS ... less then optimal spots Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mdrejhon 8 #24 August 13, 2005 Quote... less then optimal spots Shame, shame, you got to spot yourself. ;) It's just those pesky GPS pilot-spotted turbines and their green light by the door. Okay, I'm guilty as charged. But I've been watching the spot out of the Cessna a little more carefully. "Can I make it back there?" Granted, I also often pull high, so I sometimes make it back while the dropzone staff lands out (between 3K and 5K announced, depending on type of jump. Usually 3K for RW, and 5K for solo's since I enjoy the canopy flight). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Trae 1 #25 August 14, 2005 Suggestion only.... IF at a reasonable altitude (see AFF instructor guidlines for reasonable altitude) and not out of control and they are obviously unconscious ,,,..give them a shake... if no response DUMP THEM OUT immediately ..main or reserve whichever is easier to get to. If low you can hold their reserve handle or main deployment and just dump yourself out . If you value your life above theirs and you are very low don't dump them out first ..it may be the last thing you do . There are a few people out there who have caught and saved an unconscious freefaller by diving down & dumping them out . The limp bod tends to go into a "no lifter' and can be extremely hard to get to. An American Skydiver of the Year some time ago did this and only caught the bod at a very low altitude before dumping out himself . That guy was one hot skydiver ....still out there buddy? A pommie tandem guy+pass got saved a few years back by the camera-man after the pilot was choked to unconsciousness by the drogue bridle . Camera persons have helped out similarly on multiple occassions. There have also been a few sad incidents where the deceased buddies had to give up trying and dump out low. Semi-conscious students get dumped out every day by AFF instructors around the world. I was knocked a bit stupid (greyed out then came back seeing stars) on a high speed DC3 exit as a novice. Some people think I never got over it If you're doing something new and different extra caution and head protection is usually good advice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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tdog 0 #10 August 13, 2005 QuoteIn the event one of you has to do this on me, please go for my reserve. Not saying it is right or wrong... But I looked at your profile and found the size of your main and reserve are about the same and not that highly loaded... So I am just wondering why you think this? I have some ideas, but I rather hear yours before I prompt you to see if I guessed right... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanglesOZQld 0 #11 August 13, 2005 With a person unable to deploy would definitely go the reserve if possible. My reserve and main are the same size and I would definitely prefer my reserve to my main if I wasn't in a position to fly it properly ;) A lot DOES though as mentioned rely on what stage of the jump, whether or not you have a grip on the other person, what their falling state is(belly to earth, on back or spinning etc). A lot of different answers here.......... At least some of us have thought about the what ifs though and that does help a lot down the track at times! BSBD! -Mark. "A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #12 August 13, 2005 When I found myself in this situation a few years ago, I did what any self respecting video-guy would do. I tried my best to shoot good video. Crappy video posted here: http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=393 In the event I witnessed, a unconcious jumper ended up spinning away from a ten way. A few AFF instructors who happened to be on the jump chased him, and noticed he had started to respond after a few seconds. The guy ended up pulling for himself 10 seconds after the incident. My limited experience is that someone is most likely going to go unconscious due to a colision, and that means you won't be holding onto them. You'd have to chase them, and they'll likely be spinning. Deploying a spinning skydiver is extremely dificult - and dangerous. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #13 August 13, 2005 QuoteQuoteIn the event one of you has to do this on me, please go for my reserve. Not saying it is right or wrong... But I looked at your profile and found the size of your main and reserve are about the same and not that highly loaded... So I am just wondering why you think this? I have some ideas, but I rather hear yours before I prompt you to see if I guessed right... Because I didn't pack the reserve :)cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HydroGuy 0 #14 August 13, 2005 My initial thought was to pull the reserve immediately...hopefully they wake up somewhere with a little altitude remaining. After I posted this last night, I tossed other ideas around in my head. Like if you knew they had a cypress, let them go down till it fires. They would be low to the ground and will probably land on the dz. But then you are relying on that technology. And they would be deploying very unstable. If you pulled their reserve high, depending on the winds @ Perris they could end up on the 215, or the reclamation center on Goetz...maybe even Elsinore (ok, that's an exaggeration.) That canopy with brakes stowed is going to travel a distance with some wind. I now think I would ride them down to like 3 or 4k and pull their reserve, dumping my main right after. Hope this always stays a hypothetical situation for me.Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KCJumper 0 #15 August 13, 2005 I was freeflying with a guy who was knocked out by our camera guy. They managed to float into one another. I didn't even know what had happened till i saw the guy on the ground with a reserve out. He landed still knocked out. So as far as chasing someone i would as long as altitude provided. Patrick Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #16 August 13, 2005 I now think I would ride them down to like 3 or 4k and pull their reserve, dumping my main right after. *** WRONG ANSWER! You are dealing with an EMERGENCY situation, you deal with it as quickly as possible. The winds and landing area are secondary issues, problems are possibly compounded by waiting to initiate action. What if you lose the person, or they start spinning and knock YOU out? What if they wake up, panic and fire in your face? You have minimal experience to begin with, if you were to find yourself in that situation...fire their reserve, fire your main right after and FOLLOW THEM DOWN to assist. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #17 August 13, 2005 I didn't even know what had happened till i saw the guy on the ground with a reserve out. He landed still knocked out. *** AAD or did someone pull for him? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HydroGuy 0 #18 August 13, 2005 Quote You have minimal experience to begin with, if you were to find yourself in that situation...fire their reserve, fire your main right after and FOLLOW THEM DOWN to assist. With my minimal experience you can be sure of one thing...I will not be following anyone to an off-field landing.Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #19 August 13, 2005 QuoteWith my minimal experience you can be sure of one thing...I will not be following anyone to an off-field landing. I am surprised you say that... Ok sure, I agree, following someone to high density development or trees would not be a good thing, but why not if they are over open areas where you always know where *you* can land? After doing some balloon jumps, I guess I have the confidence to land someplace I have never, ever, ever have been before, like on a dirt cul-de-sac in a neighborhood under construction ... To me, landing off is not a big deal, and I feel I am safer having that confidence in case I have to land off... I would 100% have the confidence to follow an injured friend to the nearest safe place to land where they are landing... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #20 August 13, 2005 QuoteQuote You have minimal experience to begin with, if you were to find yourself in that situation...fire their reserve, fire your main right after and FOLLOW THEM DOWN to assist. With my minimal experience you can be sure of one thing...I will not be following anyone to an off-field landing. *** Trust me ...parachutes work other places besides the DZ! But if you're really uncomfortable with your ability to land off the DZ, what makes you so confident you can play James Bond in Free Fall?! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #21 August 13, 2005 I would 100% have the confidence to follow an injured friend to the nearest safe place to land where they are landing... *** Which is really all I'm saying... even if you land 1/2 a mile away in a safe open area, that's still most likely puts you closer than other available help. I know I'm just a grumpy ole fart...but these skills are VERY important to master! There are a number of reasons you need the ability to land almost anywhere. Aircraft emergency, accidental deployment, DOING DEMOS! Get yourself into the habit of looking out of the aircraft and picking out possible landing areas in case of an emergency...look for flags waving or smoke rising to determine wind direction and velocity. Know how you canopy 'feels' downwind, crosswind and upwind. This is basic safety stuff! Work on your accuracy EVERY jump...if you can land in the peas, you can make a backyard..or an open street... Granted I have experience doing it, but if I couldn't consistently land standing up in an area I may have never even seen before, at NIGHT...I'd be out of a job! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #22 August 13, 2005 QuoteWith my minimal experience youcan be sure of one thing...I will not be following anyone to an off-field landing.In a TRUE emergency situation.... After landing off-field a few times under big student and beginner rental canopies from bad spots, I'd do it at MY dropzone where I am now familiar. It's a rural location with lots of farmland, and I just stay away from straight lines (which could be roads, wiring, fences, etc) along with other general rules of thumbs about making sure there are several alternative landing areas in case I'm blown backwards, etc. Not a problem at a rural dropzone where there are tons of outs, second chances and third chance landings. In a city dropzone at my jump numbers, I'd be very nervous of the unfamiliar territory and having to land in those tiny backyards, I'm not ready to do a "unplanned demo landing" inside an urban area yet....at my jump numbers..... Although I'd try to see if there are big parks and fields with wide open areas scattered throughout the place (plenty of "outs") if I still had plenty of altitude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 26 #23 August 13, 2005 QuoteThere are a number of reasons you need the ability to land almost anywhere. Aircraft emergency, accidental deployment, DOING DEMOS ... less then optimal spots Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #24 August 13, 2005 Quote... less then optimal spots Shame, shame, you got to spot yourself. ;) It's just those pesky GPS pilot-spotted turbines and their green light by the door. Okay, I'm guilty as charged. But I've been watching the spot out of the Cessna a little more carefully. "Can I make it back there?" Granted, I also often pull high, so I sometimes make it back while the dropzone staff lands out (between 3K and 5K announced, depending on type of jump. Usually 3K for RW, and 5K for solo's since I enjoy the canopy flight). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trae 1 #25 August 14, 2005 Suggestion only.... IF at a reasonable altitude (see AFF instructor guidlines for reasonable altitude) and not out of control and they are obviously unconscious ,,,..give them a shake... if no response DUMP THEM OUT immediately ..main or reserve whichever is easier to get to. If low you can hold their reserve handle or main deployment and just dump yourself out . If you value your life above theirs and you are very low don't dump them out first ..it may be the last thing you do . There are a few people out there who have caught and saved an unconscious freefaller by diving down & dumping them out . The limp bod tends to go into a "no lifter' and can be extremely hard to get to. An American Skydiver of the Year some time ago did this and only caught the bod at a very low altitude before dumping out himself . That guy was one hot skydiver ....still out there buddy? A pommie tandem guy+pass got saved a few years back by the camera-man after the pilot was choked to unconsciousness by the drogue bridle . Camera persons have helped out similarly on multiple occassions. There have also been a few sad incidents where the deceased buddies had to give up trying and dump out low. Semi-conscious students get dumped out every day by AFF instructors around the world. I was knocked a bit stupid (greyed out then came back seeing stars) on a high speed DC3 exit as a novice. Some people think I never got over it If you're doing something new and different extra caution and head protection is usually good advice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
