diverdriver 5 #176 February 22, 2006 Holy crimmeny John! What's up man! How's the carpet biz? You still shooting video? ....thread hi-jack in progress.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE864 0 #177 February 22, 2006 Seems that this thread has done the same as the new DZ will - prompted several older KC skydivers to pull their rigs out of their closet and dust them off... Good to see a few of those people taking an interest and posting here.... And as for affanimal's post - knowing Mr. Cowen and Mr. Wolford - I doubt they'll have anything to worry about as they both run great DZ's and don't fear the competition. Later, BASE864 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyboy6554 3 #178 February 22, 2006 First, THANKS THANKS THANKS to all the skydivers who showed up for the city council meeting in Harrisonville tonight. As predicted, a SELLOUT crowd. Bad news is I got SOLD OUT due to lack of seats in the place. I got out to H-ville around 6 and stopped by the airport to check it out. Nice place, nice big runway; tons of open space. Found Paul and Joann in the Life Flight building having a chat with those folks. Headed off to City Hall and ran into a bunch of skydivers I hadn't seen in a while. We took our seats early in the small city hall room, then the mayor asked everyone who was there for the skydiving issue to step into the hall to make room for other folks who were there for some zoning issues. So like a good boy I left the room, hung out in the hallway, and when it was time to reseat.....I COULDN'T GET BACK IN!!!!! The town's police chief wouldn't let anyone stand in the room without a seat so I was SCREWED!!! Didn't feel like hanging out in the hall where I couldn't see or hear anything so I left. PLEASE PLEASE SOME OF YOU JUMPERS WHO GOT IN POST SOME NOTES ABOUT THE MEETING!!! WE WANT DETAILS, AS MUCH AS YOU CAN REMEMBER!! I'm so bummed I drove all the way out there for nothing. Well, not true....I did get to see some folks and feel like I was there for support. We need info jumpers....please post as soon as your thoughts are collected. Blue Ones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #179 February 22, 2006 How was the conversation with Life Flight since they seem to be whats influncing your city board?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnwolzak 0 #180 February 22, 2006 Whats up Dave, The meeting didn't get over till 10:30, People were talking in circles and really never got around to the issue at hand: should the city give them the lease. Instead everyone kept bringing up different safety issues simillar to the ones that almost every DZ in the country deal with regarding canopies flying over an active airport and their runway. and everyone against the new DZ continually talked about jumpers having to fly across the airport to get to the main landing area and that alot of them would probably be landing off, possibly on the airport.(the landing area is off the airport to the east) phreeZone, A rep from Lifeflight was there and though he was still concerned about the DZ operations being so close to theirs, he seemed confident that they could resolve any problems before they occur. Thats al I got for now, I'll get back soon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #181 February 22, 2006 I for one welcome our new turbine overlords. I'm not a KC area jumper, but I'll be one of the many Cessna DZ kids who wants to come play with the go-fast-go-high planes from time to time, and I'm going to try and be there opening weekend.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KCJumper 0 #182 February 22, 2006 I'm watching the morning fox 4 news. They just previewed a story about all of this. I will post what they say once it is over. Patrick Ok so they said little to nothing. Same thing as always. There is a conflict between jumping and lifeflight and they are working to resolve it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #183 February 22, 2006 So, did Ed Scott show up at the board meeting like someone elluded to in an earlier post? (he's the USPA government relations guy)Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyboy6554 3 #184 February 22, 2006 Hi Chris, Yes, he did. Since I was unable to squeeze into the room, I did NOT personally hear his comments, but I was informed he more or less stated that the new dz would abide by USPA rules and regs, etc. Somewhat dry testimony. New development: I called Gary Peek, our regional conference director, to make sure he knew about all this, and he let me know he was WELL aware of it and so were many of USPA's leaders. I was thinking about writing a letter to Mr Chris Needles, our National director, to complain about what I consider devious and unethical behavior on the part of the two local drop zone owners who are lobbying so hard to stop the new drop zone. But Gary had a surprising twist to the whole thing: apparently, Tom Dolphin and Chris Hall are actually perturbed that USPA is not doing more to support THEM since they are currently USPA Group member drop zones and the new place is NOT. I pointed out to Gary that if it were me, I would also not send USPA the $400 fee to become a group member until I was sure that I was actually going to be able to OPEN the new dz!! When all the pushing and shouting is over, we have to realize that USPA is probably NOT going to police this fray. I consider the lobbying actions of Tom Dolphin and Chris Hall to be unsavory, unethical and very mean-spirited. In fact, I am appalled at the way they have conducted themselves and the huge efforts they have made to eliminate a potential competitor in the area. That being said, they have done nothing illegal. The best we can do is vote with our feet. We, as skydivers, should not support drop zone owners who run their businesses in this manner. If we want to see Paul and Joann's new place succeed, then we should go out there, if and when it opens and jump, teach others to jump, take up the tandems, do the videos and perhaps spread some good will and enthusiasm so that the locals in the community will not have anything to complain about and will, just possibly, consider us to be good citizens and friendly neighbors. What else can we do?? I hope it works out and I hope to see everyone out there jumping a turbine aircraft in Harrisonville some time this spring. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #185 February 22, 2006 QuoteBut Gary had a surprising twist to the whole thing: apparently, Tom Dolphin and Chris Hall are actually perturbed that USPA is not doing more to support THEM since they are currently USPA Group member drop zones and the new place is NOT. Its not the USPA's place to "approve" a DZ. I think only one DZ ever had the USPA do an inspection...and they failed. The USPA should support the new DZ since they claim to want to increase membership."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #186 February 22, 2006 QuoteWhen all the pushing and shouting is over, we have to realize that USPA is probably NOT going to police this fray. I consider the lobbying actions of Tom Dolphin and Chris Hall to be unsavory, unethical and very mean-spirited. In fact, I am appalled at the way they have conducted themselves and the huge efforts they have made to eliminate a potential competitor in the area. I'm glad Ed Scott was there. I guess this is a sign that USPA IS working for the individual jumper and not just the GM DZOs. I would like to come back to the point that Chris did not go to that prior council meeting of his own initiation. He was _asked_to_go and bring up any concerns about a DZ opening up at Harrisonville. Rememeber, we all jumped there years ago. This new DZO is an unknown quantity and the city may have wanted a local perspective. As for Tom, I don't know why he was there. You'll have to ask him like I asked Chris. I don't think Chris is the demon people like to make him out to be on this board. But I have some questions of my own about this new DZ. I would like to know who is going to be the pilot? Who is the owner/operator of the caravan? Who is responsible for Mx oversight? Has this new DZO ever managed ANY aircraft before? I bring this up because this DZ is not starting with a 182 which is fairly straight forward in complexity. These Caravans can be valued from 800,000 to 1,000,000 used. That's a significant asset and when things break they don't cost a few bucks but a lot of bucks. You already know this. And we already know what can happen in the KC area when Mx goes to shit. Dave, I hope you are going to be a regular jumper at this new DZ as I know your aircraft experience. I hope that you can be a resource of information for them and an advocate for the local jumpers.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darnknit 0 #187 February 22, 2006 QuoteBut I have some questions of my own about this new DZ. I would like to know who is going to be the pilot? Who is the owner/operator of the caravan? Who is responsible for Mx oversight? Has this new DZO ever managed ANY aircraft before? I bring this up because this DZ is not starting with a 182 which is fairly straight forward in complexity. These Caravans can be valued from 800,000 to 1,000,000 used. That's a significant asset and when things break they don't cost a few bucks but a lot of bucks. You already know this. And we already know what can happen in the KC area when Mx goes to shit. then why don't you ask the DZO's? they have a phone number, a website, they were at the meeting in Harrisonville on Tuesday, and have a dropzone.com account. if you need further assistance in contacting the DZO's i can help you. pulling is cool. keep it in the skin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #188 February 22, 2006 Quote but i gotta tell you, if you weren't able to figure out how to get in touch with the people running this DZ, i sincerely doubt you are able to process any information you recieve from the answers you get to your questions. I'm well aware of their DZ.com account. I'm hoping they will comment here. It doesn't do any good if I'm the only one who knows the answers. However, as I have done for many years now, I try to ask the educated questions so that jumpers can educate themselves too. Thanks for personal attack.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,792 #189 February 22, 2006 >i sincerely doubt you are able to process any information you >recieve from the answers you get to your questions. This is general skydiving, not Speaker's Corner. Your one warning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #190 February 23, 2006 Quotebut i gotta tell you, if you weren't able to figure out how to get in touch with the people running this DZ, i sincerely doubt you are able to process any information you recieve from the answers you get to your questions. Wow you just LOVE personal attacks huh?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 21 #191 February 23, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhen all the pushing and shouting is over, we have to realize that USPA is probably NOT going to police this fray. I consider the lobbying actions of Tom Dolphin and Chris Hall to be unsavory, unethical and very mean-spirited. In fact, I am appalled at the way they have conducted themselves and the huge efforts they have made to eliminate a potential competitor in the area. I'm glad Ed Scott was there. I guess this is a sign that USPA IS working for the individual jumper and not just the GM DZOs. I would like to come back to the point that Chris did not go to that prior council meeting of his own initiation. He was _asked_to_go and bring up any concerns about a DZ opening up at Harrisonville. Rememeber, we all jumped there years ago. This new DZO is an unknown quantity and the city may have wanted a local perspective. As for Tom, I don't know why he was there. You'll have to ask him like I asked Chris. I don't think Chris is the demon people like to make him out to be on this board. But I have some questions of my own about this new DZ. I would like to know who is going to be the pilot? Who is the owner/operator of the caravan? Who is responsible for Mx oversight? Has this new DZO ever managed ANY aircraft before? I bring this up because this DZ is not starting with a 182 which is fairly straight forward in complexity. These Caravans can be valued from 800,000 to 1,000,000 used. That's a significant asset and when things break they don't cost a few bucks but a lot of bucks. You already know this. And we already know what can happen in the KC area when Mx goes to shit. Dave, I hope you are going to be a regular jumper at this new DZ as I know your aircraft experience. I hope that you can be a resource of information for them and an advocate for the local jumpers. It is my understanding that Tom was asked as well."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darnknit 0 #192 February 23, 2006 dude, i sincerely apologize for the personal attack(which is why i deleted it). i didn't realize you were merely trying to educate jumpers, i thought you were using inuendo to cast dispersions on a situation you hadn't looked into. my mistake. i never would have written those things if you had posted, " i had some questions, so i made a phone call and here are the answers i got...". in any case the fault is mine for not realizing your true motives(getting jumpers to educate themselves). i too, support the idea that people should educate themselves and make their own decisions. again, i apologize for the personal attack. blue stuff, p.j. pulling is cool. keep it in the skin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
affanimal 0 #193 February 23, 2006 Hey Dave, Jay Barksdale here. You and I did a level 1 together, about 96, remember. I see that you have your hopes up for the turbine, fine but you also need to see that Chris has been operating in Butler for about 8 years. Do you expect him to lay down for this hot shot kid with bucks and fold? He is like you and I would do, fight. Silverback Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdthomas 0 #194 February 24, 2006 QuoteWhats up Dave, The meeting didn't get over till 10:30, People were talking in circles and really never got around to the issue at hand: should the city give them the lease. Instead everyone kept bringing up different safety issues simillar to the ones that almost every DZ in the country deal with regarding canopies flying over an active airport and their runway. and everyone against the new DZ continually talked about jumpers having to fly across the airport to get to the main landing area and that alot of them would probably be landing off, possibly on the airport.(the landing area is off the airport to the east) phreeZone, A rep from Lifeflight was there and though he was still concerned about the DZ operations being so close to theirs, he seemed confident that they could resolve any problems before they occur. Thats al I got for now, I'll get back soon. So John what you are saying is that alot of people wasted alot of time and energy and a lease agreement was never meet? It's to bad that alot of energy is spent into negative things instead of encouragement of a new dz.. I am happy to see a new dz come to town, I am not bashing any of the current DZ's I am just looking at hey this is a turbine and I am a customer. I work hard for me money and want to spend in on altitude. I hope that all the area DZ's can survive, it would be a shame to see anyone loose a business.. but thats business I guess. It has been sad to see people so split on the arrival of this new DZ.. it's I jump here and I will defend this dz attitude right now.. Loyal customers are an awesome asset to any business but some are just getting mad at others over this and those who are getting mad at friends should remember that we are all customers! I wonder if these same jumpers get upset if someone from the local DZ wants to go jump at some other dz while on vacation? Joewww.greenboxphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyboy6554 3 #195 February 24, 2006 HI Jay, I sent you a PM but will post some comments here for all to see since they are relevant. No I do not expect any current dz owner to roll over and die...but then, why should they?? I have had trouble making jumps at BOTH of the local dz's because of their committment to students and tandems. Do I understand that? HELL, YES! That is the business climate we are in....students and tandems pay the bills. I get it! So then why would either dz owner be concerned about a new entry that will probably cater more to experienced jumpers looking for a bigger aircraft that can take them higher for larger formation loads? Quite frankly, I think we could use some additional airlift around here in the summer!(And spring and fall!) There are plenty of times when I have been lucky to grab a spot on a Cessna 182 tandem load just so I could get my knees in the breeze and get re-current! Regardless of what anyone's motives or concerns are, I think that making multiple appearances at city council meetings to lobby against a potential competitor and trying to point out the various "problems" and "safety issues" that the new operation may or may not have is ludicrous. It would be one thing to say "I don't really want another popsicle stand to open up right next to mine," but to say "This new popsicle stand is dangerous and will create a whole lot of problems for the community" is what I call unethical mud-slinging. I hope this makes my position a bit more clear. Blue skies Dave Ternes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
affanimal 0 #196 February 24, 2006 I hear ya. take care Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IFallFast 0 #197 February 26, 2006 QuoteWe appreciate all of your support! Please send any correspondence to: Harrisonville Board of Aldermen c/o Dianna Wright, City Administrator [email protected] Although we regret that the information contained in this thread is true, we refuse to get involved in dropzone politics. We feel our energy is better spent promoting skydiving for everyone. See you April 1st! Hey another Kansas dropzone here, and we support you 100% can't wait for the April 1st boogie. We plan on attending in force(we are closing out DZ for the day). See you then! Jason KSUPC Club President I like Beans Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kansasskydiver 0 #198 February 27, 2006 I'll be there too, now we can pull off that massive hybrid I've been wanting to do Full support Chris Armstrong KSUPC Secretary<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdthomas 0 #199 February 27, 2006 So you guys are going to shut down Wamego for this event? thats crazy talk! See you there.. Joewww.greenboxphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kansasskydiver 0 #200 February 27, 2006 Yeah there will be enough of us going that we don't see the justification of keeping our dz open that Saturday, we'd rather give the pilot the day off, instructors a break to have some fun and pull off our hybrid we can't do outta a 182 haha See ya there <--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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