did i chose right?

[par 0]

I was offered to jump with one skydiver, who came from another dz. I did not knew his skills, but i agreed. When we exited i came to my belly and he was sitting. Exit altitude was about 5000 feet (quite low, yeah?). Even on my belly i was still falling faster then he, and i went down right under him. At about 2700 feet i wanted to pull, but looked above me, and saw him right above. Then tried to track away, but he started tracking right the same way i did. 2000 feet. I look, and decide to pull because of my altitude. My chute opens 5 meters near him, and he opens at 1800 feet maybe. Did i have to track more, or pull anyway ( as i chose) because of my altitude? I know, if i had better skills, i could manage to get away, so he would not be above me, but...

[par 0]

btw sorry for my horrible english ..

[flyuke 0]

I had similar experience.
Maybe a dummy pull would get him out of the way.
Track, wave off and a dummy pull if he is still there, or maybe get your pilot chute out in your hand so he can see it before you let it go.
He should have been more considerate to you but maybe he lost altitude awareness---did he have an audible?
Next time talk about a break off height and agree that if one of you starts waving then you turn and track away.
You did all you could have done and you were lucky he did not strike you.wave before you dump and maybe do a slow dump--hanging onto pilot chute for a while.Thats all i can offer

[yoink 321]

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maybe do a slow dump--hanging onto pilot chute for a while.Thats all i can offer

Don't do this... if something goes wrong you're inducing a horseshoe type mal. Not fun. If you pull out your PC, you'd better have a good reason not to get rid of it...

I guess a couple of lessons to be learned here - first, know the expierience of people you jump with... Will the emphasis be on you to get out of the way, or on them? Ideally it'll be both, but it doesn't always work like this.

60 jumps from 5 grand seems kinda low to be doing mixed dives unless the other person is very good at it... it's asking for level differences at breakoff... just my opinion - I'd stick to one or the other.

As for what you should have done? You did well. You kept an eye on your surroundings and didn't go dangerously low trting to our run him. Well done.
Now go and have a word with him about why he's put you both in danger, or ask your chief instructor to do it.

[par 0]

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---did he have an audible?

Yes, he did. There is some type of people, whom i can't understand. And he said he had 300 jumps or smth. I'll try to choose my companions better, in the future..

[beowulf 1]

I wouldnt jump with him again. I most likely would had some harsh words to say after landing.

[Remster 24]

Man... sounds like the chain of events from hell...

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I was offered to jump with one skydiver, who came from another dz. I did not knew his skills, but i agreed.

1st mistake. Talk with the guy, see what he's done, get a good feeling from it; if not, walk away.

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When we exited i came to my belly and he was sitting.

Was that the plan... Was there even a plan? Probably the 2nd mistake.

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Even on my belly i was still falling faster then he

Again, what was the plan, what kind of jumpsuits....

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At about 2700 feet i wanted to pull, but looked above me, and saw him right above. Then tried to track away

You decided to track away only at 2700? On a 2 way, since you never jumped before together, plan to break off hi and brief the break off: turn 180 from our center point, low man has right of way, etc...

Its normal to not have teh skills of someone with lost more jumps and experience, and the way to deal with that is to plan around it. Glad you both lived...

Remster

[thelem 0]

Why were you doing a two way from 5 grand anyway? If you are planning to pull around 3, that means breakoff around 4, so you only have 1000ft (mostly the hill) to do anything surely?

At 2000 ft I would have pulled too - you don't have many options at that altitude.

[crutch 0]

Remster got this one right all the way. There seems to me that there was no plan here. If there was a plan, it seems you were never comfortable with it anyhow. You needed to take some control over the situation! If you are uncomfortable with breaking off at 3000' (you should be with 60 jumps) you should have said so. If you just wanted to do a solo jump. instead of jumping with this person, you should have said so. This goes for all skydivers, in all disciplines, if you are uncomfortable with the plan, speak up before someone gets hurt. You were lucky this time, don't get yourself into a situation like this again, could be your last!

blue skies,

art

[par 0]

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Was that the plan... Was there even a plan?

I always thought it's quite simple - we exit, try to stay in front of each other, make some fun things, 3200 feet - 180* turn and track hard and deploy at 2500.

Until now.

[rocketdog 0]

i think both of you are at fault...

for you, i think Remster summed it up well what could've/should've been done.

as for the other jumper, i certainly would NOT jump with him/her again. while tracking, the jumper should have been looking around the sky for you (that includes below). he/she should have seen you tracking in the same direction.

in addition, he/she sucked you down pretty low. not cool..... glad everythings alright though!

~hollywood

see the world! http://gorocketdog.blogspot.com

[MarkM 0]

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I always thought it's quite simple - we exit, try to stay in front of each other, make some fun things, 3200 feet - 180* turn and track hard and deploy at 2500.

Jeez, what altitude do you normally pull at? I know some poeple who's hard deck is 2500 feet.

[FrogNog 1]

I know you aren't happy with how that dive wound up at 2000 feet with you guys both still in freefall and all, so I won't talk about that.

I think you were right to pull. The ground WILL kill or maim you if you hit it in freefall. Your jump partner might kill or maim you both if you collide in freefall.

There is room for argument about how much altitude you had left, but for me personally at 2k I need a canopy immediately.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[skydiverjerry 0]

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I wouldnt jump with him again. I most likely would had some harsh words to say after landing.

while you both made some serious mistakes not jumping / not talking / or worst harsh words probably will not help, you bothe made mistakes but both survived a very scary situation.

know it,s time to learn from that sit down with your cci or an experienced skydiver and discuse what you did wronge and what you can do right the next time!

if we all do this guess what whe will all be better instructors.

never stop learning

[crwmike 0]

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I was offered to jump with one skydiver, who came from another dz. I did not knew his skills, but i agreed. When we exited i came to my belly and he was sitting. Exit altitude was about 5000 feet (quite low, yeah?). Even on my belly i was still falling faster then he, and i went down right under him. At about 2700 feet i wanted to pull, but looked above me, and saw him right above. Then tried to track away, but he started tracking right the same way i did. 2000 feet. I look, and decide to pull because of my altitude. My chute opens 5 meters near him, and he opens at 1800 feet maybe. Did i have to track more, or pull anyway ( as i chose) because of my altitude? I know, if i had better skills, i could manage to get away, so he would not be above me, but...

As Remster pointed out, there was a chain of mistakes. In addition, did you wave off????

BSBD,

Michael

[par 0]

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As Remster pointed out, there was a chain of mistakes. In addition, did you wave off????

BSBD,

Michael

I did. I tracked, waved off, looked above me - and he is still there.. anyway i decided to pull

[skr 1]

Others have mentioned things to do in the future
so that you don't get into this situation again, but ...

One of the things I don't like about skydiving is that
you can do all the smart things you have learned
so far and still find yourself in some situation with
no good answers.

I think you chose right.

At 2,700 ft you have to pull pretty soon. That's not
that high with today's slow opening canopies.

At 2,000 ft you don't really have time to take your
pilot chute out and wave it in his face and hope he
gets the message. He hasn't been getting the message
so far.

Maybe you could dodge left or right for a couple
seconds and pull your reserve and hope for a near
miss.

There are lots of ways to not get into this situation
in the future, but once you're there there are no
good answers, only things you can try and hope
for the best.

So I think that with only 60 jumps you handled it
pretty well.

Skr

[Ron 7]

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Jeez, what altitude do you normally pull at? I know some poeple who's hard deck is 2500 feet.

I pull at 2,000-2,500 feet...My hard deck is 1200 feet.

Its funny to see what people think is low today

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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Maybe a dummy pull would get him out of the way.
Track, wave off and a dummy pull if he is still there, or maybe get your pilot chute out in your hand so he can see it before you let it go.

Yikes!!!!!

Please don't do that...You are asking for a horseshoe mal.

I have seen a student do this...He held on to the PC and the bridle pulled the pin. Next thing ya know he has his main bad out and it is flopping around his back, spinning aand all other kinds of nasty shit....

I was sitting in front of him and gave him the signal to pull...Later he told me that he saw the signal, but had pulled so he didn't do anything and was confused by my signal.

I had to pull the PC out of his hand...He had a death grip on it.

But thats another story....By the grace of some God he didn't have a mal....I will never forget the UGLY mess that was on his back....I didn't think there was anyway it would clear.

Holding on to the PC and not letting it go is bad juju. PLEASE don't do that you are asking for an out of sequence deployment.

You would be better served by tracking harder for the amount of time you plan on holding onto the PC....

If you find yourself below someone TRACK LIKE HELL (you should be doing this anyway, but we all get lazy)...Give a BIG ass wave off.

But once you plan on pulling...pull.

And please don't pull the PC and hold on to it....Now you are asking for a nasty mal.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[bigway 4]

how about talking over your skydive before you even get in the plane. Is it such a wise idea to be belly flying with someone in a sit? i am not trying to say i know better than you but when i started freeflying my instructors were telling me that if i go on to my belly when we are in a sit.....well they just advised me to go into a ball otherwise i would be dangerous to them and myself in the sky. I have learnt that before i go out the door my partner and i know exactly what we are going to be doing. This means at least break off point, pull point, tracking direction and what style of flying we are doing. Talk more be safe.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[bigway 4]

if you are a STUDENT, you should NOT be holding your pilot chute for a while at all. you should be waving off and dumping.
You better go speak to your dzso before you cause a mal.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[bigway 4]

shit, you need to do some b-rels...you sound just as dangerous as your mate.....you wouldn't be jumping at any dz i have been to if that is your attitude. You should know that is not"just simple, jump out and do a few fun things". your fun things sound like dangerous death. you are soooooo lucky that you have good awarness of your surroundings or we would be writing about you in the fatalities discussions.
Dude you need to learn a bit more from a dzso, 2 way unplanned dive from 5k with 2 diff flying styles????!!!
damn you are one scary jumper

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[riggerrob 558]

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shit, you need to do some b-rels...you sound just as dangerous as your mate.....you wouldn't be jumping at any dz i have been to if that is your attitude. You should know that is not"just simple, jump out and do a few fun things". your fun things sound like dangerous death. you are soooooo lucky that you have good awarness of your surroundings or we would be writing about you in the fatalities discussions.
Dude you need to learn a bit more from a dzso, 2 way unplanned dive from 5k with 2 diff flying styles????!!!
damn you are one scary jumper

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Bigway,

You need to lighten up!

A junior jumper and an intermediate jumper exited together.
The intermediate jumper did something dumb.
The junior jumper tried to track out of his way.
The intermediate jumper did something dumb (tracked over a junior jumper at pull time).
The junior jumper pulled at a reasonable altitude and saved himself.
At which point the intermediate jumper did something else dumb (freefell below 2,000').

The onus is is always on the senior (in this case intermediate) jumper to stay out of the junior's airspace at pull time.
I think the junior jumper handled a difficult situation well.
I also think that I would not jump again with said intermediate jumper. I would not waste my time yelling at said intermediate jumper. The only thing that would change would be my lips getting tired!Maybe he will learn something from the cold shoulder.
Bottom line, the intermediate jumper made a bunch of mistakes and the junior jumper handled an awkward situation well.
The bonus is that the junior jumper learned something: be more careful about who you jump with.
Here endeth the lesson.

[par 0]

usually i pull at 3000 feet. But .. shit happens.

[bigway 4]

mate i respect a lot of your posts and look up to your experience but here i think you are missing something.
a junior an a interm. went for a skydive. This guy par, good on him for the awarness of his surroundings. and getting out of a sticky situation.
The thing is though all this would have been avoided or could have been avoided if they did one of the first things they are taught in aff. VISUALISE YOUR JUMP.
Now how can you visualise your jumps if you do not talk about what is going to happen after exit?
They should have practised their exit. then they should have talked if it was going to be a sitfly or belly fly. To tell you the truth they just should not have been in the sky togethor. One guy sit flying, obviously no control in the sit fly cause he was all over the belly flier, same fall rate, above him , tacking with him...damn it sounds like a bloke trying to learn how to sit fly and just jumps with anyone and does what he wants. I think it takes a guy with a head on him at 75 jumps to talk to this guy that he has never jumped with before and dirt dive. otr at least talk about flying style, breakaway height, pull height...none of this was done. They are both at fault here and the more experienced jumpers sounds like a dick head if he has 300 jumps and puts the other bloke in this bad situation. But the junior jumper needs to have the balls to look up to this more experienced jumper and do a dirt dive or talk it through so he has something to visualise. These 2 fools went in to a plane up to 5000ft and just jumped and broke every fucking rule in the book. Now he needs to speak up and make sure his dzso has a word to him before he kills himself and as for the junior jumper he needs to speak to an instructor about safe skydiving before getting in the plane. Sorry to sound so harsh but these guys have no respect for each other or their jump, and to me this sounds dangerous for anyone else on that load that might have jumped out before them at the very least.
I am lightening up, this guy needs to know that they are both in the wron and both need to sit down and learn their safety skills.
Blue skies

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.