mjosparky 3 #201 August 4, 2006 It is my relatively educated opinion that the majority of the world's BASE jumps are made legally. Quote And I am sure you are right in your opinion. But the news media does not cover all the legal BASE jumps made. (done without breaking the law to complete the jump) But they do seem to like to cover the BASE jumps where the jumper is arrested. And the news media very seldom if ever makes the distinction between BASE jumper and a skydiver. When the Powered Para gliders landed in the boxing ring and on the Statue of Liberty they were call skydivers by the media. Skydiving got the black eye. When the host of a TV show got caught trying to do the Empire State Building he was referred to by much of the media as a skydiver. Again skydiving took the hit. There are illegal skydives (for example, using BASE gear). There are legal BASE jumps. Why not focus on the legality, if that's what concerns you, rather than the type of parachuting?Quote Again I agree with you, there are illegal skydives made all the time. But they very seldom get the media coverage that a BASE jump gone bad does. My original post was in response to MattM’s “Its not illegal to BASE jump”. That’s like saying it is not illegal to drive at 150 mph in a school zone. It is just illegal to get caught. BASE jumpers act like cloak and dagger people from the cold war talking in whispers and code. Then claim what they do is not illegal. If its not what are they hiding from whom? Since I have retired from active jumping it doesn’t mean a thing to me one way or the other. But it seems that quite a few BASE people need to convince themselves doing something on someone else’s property against their wishes is perfectly legal. Maybe they should be more up front and admit, yea what I do is illegal but it sure is fun.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rauk 0 #202 August 4, 2006 "That’s like saying it is not illegal to drive at 150 mph in a school zone. It is just illegal to get caught." So show me the law that makes BASE jumping illegal. Oh, and aerial delivery doesn't count, skydiving falls into that category, too. So, by your standards, skydiving is illegal as well, because it is outlawed in some instances just as BASE jumping is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #203 August 4, 2006 >My original post was in response to MattM’s “Its not illegal to BASE > jump”. That’s like saying it is not illegal to drive at 150 mph in a > school zone. It's not illegal to BASE jump. It's illegal to BASE jump if it means trespassing on someone's property. It's not illegal to drive. It's illegal to drive if it means driving 150mph through a school zone. Most of my BASE jumps have been either legal or not illegal (i.e. there were no gates, or fences, or signs saying no trespassing.) It's not hard to find legal sites nowadays. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ahegeman 0 #204 August 5, 2006 This thread is a total bummer. We (skydivers and BASE jumpers) are a tiny minority who share a very similar passion. We are viewed collectively by the population in general as a bunch of death-embracing morons good for nothing more than providing occasional advertising and faces-of-death type footage. Most people out there wouldn't have a second thought about making both our lifestyles very difficult. And yet, here we are finding a way to divide ourselves into two camps and beat each other up. Lame. We need to be able to talk about this without making broad, insulting, generalizations.--------------------------------------------------------------- There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'. --Dave Barry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SabreDave 0 #205 August 5, 2006 My original post was in response to MattM’s “Its not illegal to BASE jump”. That’s like saying it is not illegal to drive at 150 mph in a school zone. It is just illegal to get caught. BASE jumpers act like cloak and dagger people from the cold war talking in whispers and code. Then claim what they do is not illegal. If its not what are they hiding from whom?Quote I only have about 50 BASE jumps a few grey area jumps sure but not alot of cloak and dagger. I am not hiding from anyone. Almost all of my BASE jumps have been perfectly legal, done in broad daylight, with no hiding. Sorry man but you are a BASE whuffo....SabreDave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #206 August 5, 2006 its like the energizer bunny!!! keeps going and going and going!!!... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattM 0 #207 August 5, 2006 Quote It's not illegal to BASE jump. It's illegal to BASE jump if it means trespassing on someone's property. Exactly. I can build a 1000ft antenna in my backyard and give permission to BASE jumpers to jump from it. Am I right? Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #208 August 5, 2006 >I can build a 1000ft antenna in my backyard and give permission to >BASE jumpers to jump from it. Am I right? Yep. Although a 300 foot crane would, I think, be more fun - and easier to set up. You could swing the boom and exit from the end; even get some airspeed right off the bat. It would be a BASE jump you have to spot for. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #209 August 5, 2006 QuoteIt would be a BASE jump you have to spot for. I see you've read some of Nick's stories. My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #210 August 5, 2006 >I see you've read some of Nick's stories. No! Where are they? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #211 August 5, 2006 This one is mostly an informative post, but read to the end. If you search through the BASE forum, there are random Nick stories scattered about. He tells a good tale (true of course) and tells it well.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #212 August 5, 2006 QuoteMost of my BASE jumps have been either legal or not illegal (i.e. there were no gates, or fences, or signs saying no trespassing.) It's not hard to find legal sites nowadays. I call bull shit. You are in denial if you think no sign means you can trespass. If all these sites are so legal why do you delete a post that mentions a BASE site? Like I said I could care less one way or the other. You don't have to convince me I am not your mother. You have to convince the judge.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenHall 0 #213 August 5, 2006 QuoteQuoteMost of my BASE jumps have been either legal or not illegal (i.e. there were no gates, or fences, or signs saying no trespassing.) It's not hard to find legal sites nowadays. I call bull shit. You are in denial if you think no sign means you can trespass. If all these sites are so legal why do you delete a post that mentions a BASE site? Like I said I could care less one way or the other. You don't have to convince me I am not your mother. You have to convince the judge. BASE sites get deleted so some dumbass doesn't try to go huck w/ skydiving gear and no training. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HydroGuy 0 #214 August 5, 2006 QuoteI call bull shit. You are in denial if you think no sign means you can trespass. If all these sites are so legal why do you delete a post that mentions a BASE site? BASE sites get deleted so some dumbass doesn't try to go huck w/ skydiving gear and no training. I believe it's referred to as "self-policing"....where the have we heard that term before?????hmmmmmGet in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TVPB 0 #215 August 5, 2006 QuoteThere is no "legal" deployment height. USPA has minimum opening altitudes but they are not law. Fair enough. You may be correct here when putting in in the context of law. That's one for clarification. QuoteIf BASE jumping is not illegal how come so many people get arrested doing it? If driving / owning a gun / walking across the street / etc are legal, how come people get arrested doing those things?????????? Because the activity itself is NOT illegal, undertaking it in a certain way and a certain place is. BASE Jumping is NOT illegal. The catch is, you have to have the permission of the landowner to jump off his/her/it's object. There are also a number of locations where the landowners have "pre-mandated lack of permission". Hence, if you do not get approval, there is a chance you will get arrested. Think about Bridge Day USA. For one day a year, no one gets arrested. During all the other days . . . . . . Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TVPB 0 #216 August 5, 2006 QuoteMy original post was in response to MattM’s “Its not illegal to BASE jump”. That’s like saying it is not illegal to drive at 150 mph in a school zone. It is just illegal to get caught. BASE Jumping is like driving. Both activities are legal in most areas. BASE Jumping without permission is like driving 75 mph in a 60 mph zone except people can get a lot more narky at you. Driving 150mph is just plain stupid (for 99% of the population). It is like doing an aerobatic BASE jump off a severly underhung low cliff without permission. Has that clarified things for you, love chops???? Quote BASE jumpers act like cloak and dagger people from the cold war talking in whispers and code. Then claim what they do is not illegal. If its not what are they hiding from whom? Since I have retired from active jumping it doesn’t mean a thing to me one way or the other. But it seems that quite a few BASE people need to convince themselves doing something on someone else’s property against their wishes is perfectly legal. Maybe they should be more up front and admit, yea what I do is illegal but it sure is fun. Hah. That is hilarious. You are so funny dude! I will remember to bring my code crackers on all those free / legal jumps around the world such as cliffs all over Europe, certain Bridges in the USA, BLM cliffs in the USA, lots of buildings in Asia and Russia and Europe, cliffs in NZ, etc. You are ssssoooooooooooo eighties. But I love your hairstyle!!!!! p.s. on a serious note: yes, there are many jumps done without permission due to the excessive amount of paperwork involved. But the majority of jumps down around the world are permitted. Whether you want to believe this or not is irrelevant. Personal opinion cannot beat facts (unless you have a really good publicist). Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #217 August 5, 2006 QuoteIf all these sites are so legal why do you delete a post that mentions a BASE site? BASE site confidentiality is about SAFETY, not legality. The primary reasoning is not that it's illegal, but that it's not safe to have people out there trying to jump with no training and/or the incorrect gear (that would be kind of like using BASE gear on a skydive). Oh, and for the record, Bill doesn't delete those. I do. In fact, he usually thinks I'm doing some serious overkill on that.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lurch 0 #218 August 5, 2006 Um, TVPB? FYI about Skymonkey.... If you don't know who you are talking to, you might want to find out before crowing "troll." The man you've been trying to mock is one of the most highly regarded wingsuit pilots alive and has led some of the biggest most complex flocks ever assembled. You might consider showing some respect. -LurchLive and learn... or die, and teach by example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wwarped 0 #219 August 5, 2006 QuoteUm, TVPB? FYI about Skymonkey.... If you don't know who you are talking to, you might want to find out before crowing "troll." The man you've been trying to mock is one of the most highly regarded wingsuit pilots alive and has led some of the biggest most complex flocks ever assembled. You might consider showing some respect. and you might consider how many accident investigation TVPB has conducted... check the BASE fatality list and you'll find people who thought just like Skymonkey. his skill and odds ARE in Skymonkey's favor, but that doesn't mean it is advisable. remember the main landing area is tight (at one Norwegian site). I could swoop it, or even land a tandem in it. BUT, it requires time and altitude to set up a nice pattern. expect to have neither, so also expect a hospital visit. few non-BASE jumpers would even recognize the "outs" as a valid landing areas. the proper equipment enhances safety by providing more possibilities. to ignore this simple fact is a significant link in an accident chain. DON'T PANIC The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #220 August 5, 2006 QuoteUm, TVPB? TVPB is the first person I know to have flown a wingsuit (of his own design, back before they hit the commercial market) off a cliff. He's got loads of applicable experience, to both BASE generally, and wingsuit BASE specifically. He does know what he's talking about, and he's seen enough carnage to care about trying to help people before they get hurt. QuoteYou might consider showing some respect. You might also consider showing a touch more respect for one of the pioneers of the genre.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #221 August 6, 2006 Quoteor the incorrect gear (that would be kind of like using BASE gear on a skydive). And I believe that is where this thread started. "Using BASE gear on a skydive is illegal and stupid." 217 posts later someone involved in BASE agrees with the statement.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #222 August 6, 2006 I don't agree that my BASE rig isn't suitable for jumping from an aircraft under the right conditions, especially a balloon, but I do agree that it's against FARs because it is against the FARs.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #223 August 6, 2006 I think it's possible that you're stereotyping a little. Is it possible that some of the folks way up-thread who thought it was foolish to do this were actually BASE jumpers, and you assumed they weren't? Have a look, for example, at post #19 in this thread.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #224 August 6, 2006 QuoteI think it's possible that you're stereotyping a little. Is it possible that some of the folks way up-thread who thought it was foolish to do this were actually BASE jumpers, and you assumed they weren't? Have a look, for example, at post #19 in this thread. QuoteI think it's possible that you're stereotyping a little. Is it possible that some of the folks way up-thread who thought it was foolish to do this were actually BASE jumpers, and you assumed they weren't? Have a look, for example, at post #19 in this thread. From post #19 "Jumping Balloons with a BASE rig is not stupid Jumping Balloons with a BASE rig in a skydiving environment is stupid" Jumping from free flying balloon is jumping in a skydiving environment. And it is illegal. See post #136My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #225 August 6, 2006 Quote Jumping from free flying balloon is jumping in a skydiving environment. And it is illegal. That is true, but it sure is fun. Is that what you're waiting for?My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
