Attention Skydivers: Jumping a BASE rig from aircraft in the US is not just illegal, but stupid

[mjosparky 3]

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Jumping from free flying balloon is jumping in a skydiving environment. And it is illegal.

That is true, but it sure is fun.

Is that what you're waiting for?

Tim,

I believe you are one of the people that do understand what I am getting at.

A good example I guess would be the guy that got busted trying to jump the Empire State Building. He had a job as a co-host for a weekly TV program featuring Extreme sports and stunts. His arrest created a great deal of negative media for skydiving and BASE. He lost his job. Now the kicker, how long do you think it will be before a producer is willing to take another chance on a BASE jumper or a skydiver for that matter. The cost of one man's ego negatively impact many for a long time.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[TVPB 0]

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Um, TVPB?
FYI about Skymonkey....
If you don't know who you are talking to, you might want to find out before crowing "troll."
The man you've been trying to mock is one of the most highly regarded wingsuit pilots alive and has led some of the biggest most complex flocks ever assembled. You might consider showing some respect.
-Lurch
Flight test rule #7: A packjob tuned for wingsuits does not open gently when used for RW...

I may be incorrect, and I will publically apologise profusely if I am, but I got the impression that skymonkey has very little to no BASE jumping experience. Is this so?

If it is, then I don't give two hoots how many skydives he has out of an aircraft and how gifted he is in a wingsuit. He is an absolute beginner at BASE jumping and if he had any modicum of respect for himself and his life, then he would show a little humility about BASE jumping with a wingsuit. Not only that, but I think it is downright dangerous to encourage the skygod mentality of "I am a guru at this, so I will be awesome at that". This encourages people to believe that it is perfectly safe to just go throw yourself off a cliff with little training in an unfamiliar activity. Think about it. There are beginner suits and jump limits for advanced suits. WHY? Because of added risk. Think about BASE jumping - the risks are potentially much higher. It is fact that many people exist who are worlds best at one activity, but totally useless at others. Now, there is every chance that skymonkey would breeze through BASE jumping and be just as good as he is a wingsuit pilot. But to assume that pre experience?????? That's bad. That's no good. That is NOT an example to set for other jumpers.

I will draw your attention to one example in my home country. A foreign national who represented his country at a very high / successful level in RW, pursued a BASE jumping career. His skill level was NOT repeated in BASE jumping. When this was suggested to him, he refused instruction and went and did his own thing. End result is that he is on the fatality list. Nice guy - I got on well with him. But in the end, his ego (and mismatch between apparent and actual skill) is what killed him.

Now, if skymonkey is an experienced BASE jumper, then I will eat my words and apologise. But if he is not, then you should reconsider the respect you are demanding.

Now for your information, since you are in such favour of displaying resume's. I have been to 3 world meets, won the national championships in several disciplines on a number of occasions, implemented the safety role in the ABA which became for a long while the benchmark for safety in world BASE jumping, won video festivals, toured the world, pioneered many BASE sites, as far as I know was only the second person in history to wingsuit BASE jump - with a suit that I built, have two university degrees, am a former successful applicant to mensa, have helped organise world record big ways in BASE, etc. There is some cred there. But this is also what I am: blood and bone, a human with all my imperfections, not perfect, prone to making occasional mistakes, no better or no worse than most other people, humble enough to admit that I need someone to teach me things that I am not experienced in (like BASE aerobatics, freeflying, or skysurfing). There is every possiblity that I will do just fine in those activities, but I am not experienced in them. Just because I can occasionally do CRW rotations at world championship pace (something I am good / experienced at), it means nothing when I try a swoop landing on a 70 square foot canopy. Why? Because I am not an experienced swooper.

Now, that fact that you are defending skymonkey for his achievements in wingsuit flight, means that he has earned your respect in this field. Hats off to him. But I hope you never have to experience a situation where an egotistical skygod smashes into an object purely because he/she thought his talents would naturally transfer. I have been in this situation. There is another for my resume. You don't want to be there. Worse than this, you don't want to be around when a lessor experienced person thought is was OK to to the same thing, because his idol skygod condoned it.

Finally, I am sure skymonkey was only being hypothetical with his initial comment. But the following statement horrifies me:

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There is positively no reason that I would be unsafe

This is one step closer to the afterlife.

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but I am sure there are a bunch of twits out there that would try and give me at least this much grief if I did it anyway.

The above was the final straw, this basically says to me "how dare anyone question my actions - for I am . . . ".

So if someone questions his actions they are twits??????? If Skymonkey is not open to any constructive feedback, then he is not open minded (obviously). People improve on constructive feedback. That is why people get coaches. Tiger Woods has a coach. I don't think Skymonkey is to wingsuiting what Tiger is to golf. Tiger can still improve and he is the Worlds best. Once you attain perfection, you can't get any better. If this perfection is real . . . . . well, apparently real perfection does not exist. But if this perfection is created via a deluded self belief system, you have established your maximum level of achievement and will never get any better. This may even be detrimental to safety.

Anyway, as I said, if he is a experienced BASEr, then hats off and I will eat my words.

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[wwarped 0]

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He had a job as a co-host for a weekly TV program featuring Extreme sports and stunts. His arrest created a great deal of negative media for skydiving and BASE. He lost his job. Now the kicker, how long do you think it will be before a producer is willing to take another chance on a BASE jumper or a skydiver for that matter. The cost of one man's ego negatively impact many for a long time.

uh, hm.
per a post on a different thread, Jeb been replaced by Eli, another experienced skydiver/BASE jumper.

your assumed negative impact did not materialize, in this instance. care to reconsider? or will you deny this fact and repackage your argument?

DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

[wwarped 0]

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Attention Skydivers: Jumping a BASE rig from aircraft in the US is not just illegal, but stupid, and harms our sport.

I'm putting this in General Skydiving for a reason, and that is to educate skydivers who may not know this important fact.

Now, the point I want to make to skydivers is that if you see someone planning to jump a BASE rig from a balloon you need to do something! No one on that load did. Is it because they didn't know better, or because they didn't care?

This is our sport, folks. We need to educate ourselves and keep each other from doing stupid things.

Gary,

this thread has gone on for a long time.
you inflamed people by saying that using an unapproved, single parachute system is stupid, repeatedly.

I believe everyone agrees it is illegal to use an unapproved, single parachute system at the WFFC. there is nothing wrong with reminding skydivers to use the appropriate gear. I prefer education to regulation. (and in this case, the regulation failed to stop the skydiver.) I view this thread as an attempt to educate.

it seems odd to read post from folks who think unapprove, single parachute systems will suddenly stop working if jumped from an aircraft. properly used, it should have a much LOWER malfunction rate than proper skydiving gear. and these canopies are far SAFER to land.

but stupid? really?
(if used incorrectly, o.k.)

the main risk is the potential impact on the sport of skydiving. surely the FAA keeps tabs on the WFFC, so it does not surprise me they maintain a presence. it might even facilitate some jump activities.

obviously, they should not witness any violation of the FARs. (skydiving with a single parachute system is just one of many.)

but terms like "stupid," "twit," etc. as seen in these posts?

is that constructive?
helpful?
of educational value?
professional?

surely as a representative of USPA, you should set a higher standard. isn't that what they teach in various instructor training courses? when do they say "call your students stupid, it works great!"?

good BASE jumpers evaluate personal risk BEFORE every jump. few skydivers can imagine the amount of planning for each jump. BASE jumpers understand this as most started out as skydivers.

to those arguing this skydiver endangered himself, probably not.

to those arguing this skydiver endanged the sport, true. just as if anyone failing to use a seatbelt, jumping less than sober, pencil packing, etc.

DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

[riggerrob 558]

Canadian rules may be more liberal than American, but the end result is the same.
Our DZO recently clarified his policy vis a vis BASE gear and his airplanes: if you want to jump a BASE canopy at Pitt Meadows, you will have to attach it to a set of 3-Ring risers and pack it into a regular skydiving rig with an AAD, in-date reserve, etc.

[mjosparky 3]

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He had a job as a co-host for a weekly TV program featuring Extreme sports and stunts. His arrest created a great deal of negative media for skydiving and BASE. He lost his job. Now the kicker, how long do you think it will be before a producer is willing to take another chance on a BASE jumper or a skydiver for that matter. The cost of one man's ego negatively impact many for a long time.

uh, hm.
per a post on a different thread, Jeb been replaced by Eli, another experienced skydiver/BASE jumper.

your assumed negative impact did not materialize, in this instance. care to reconsider? or will you deny this fact and repackage your argument?

I was not aware of that and it does surprise me. Consider it reconsidered.

We can only hope it will not affect future opportunities. The effect on those will be hard to gage.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I am just going to make one more post to this thread, as it has clearly been down many different tangents. TVPB clearly has a lot of BASE and general skydiving credibility. That's awesome. My one problem with his last lengthy post was the analogy that my considerable wingsuit experience and accomplishments would lend me no benefit in the theoretical situation I proposed: me flying off a 3000 ft + terminal wall in Norway in my wingsuit skydiving rig. The purpose of my response was simply to say that I, regardless of BASE experience, don't see why it would be a problem to anyone for me to jump off that rock, fly for 1000 feet vertical, then dump at 2000agl. No, it's not BASE gear, but I can promise you that an experienced wingsuit pilot can get plenty far away from a wall in 1000 feet and that any mal experienced at that 2000 foot AGL opening altitude could be handled safely by cutting away and using the reserve. That point seems to have been lost somewhere along the way. My point was that I am POSITIVE that someone, ANYONE with wingsuit experience showing up with a skydiving rig at that location would get the same amount of grief as this clown in BASE gear at Rantoul. I did not say that I planned on doing the Norway thing; I said that BASE guys would give a guy in skydiving gear grief, regardless of how safe the jump could be made with a prudent pull altitude comensurate with the skydiving gear he was using.

Some of you really do seem very sure of yourselves. I have met many, many BASE jumpers who displayed common sense and did not come across as pompous assholes. I have met just as many, barely-qualified BASE jumpers/skydivers who simply don't give a rat's ass about what anyone outside their little clique thinks. Law be damed; common sense be damned. I am positively incredulous at the degree of hero worship that some BASE jumpers have for some truly wreckless individuals. You would bitch at a guy like me for posting what I suspect would be a totally doable jump (the Norway in a skydiving rig thing), but you will positively support and cry over a RANK AMATEUR wingsuit BASE guy who zoo'ed a poised exit out of a Caravan then promply flew himself into a bridge. Give me a break.

Listen, I don't care how many jumps, BASE or otherwise, a person has. It's common sense that will keep you alive. Some things just make more sense to reasonable people than to others. If you don't follow the fact that the great majority of responsible adults don't have a problem staying within the boundaries of the law, that's your problem and I can promise you that you are in the minority. Also, tough-guy posturing does not impress people like me, so please save yourself the effort if any of you feel like responding in that way. I would just delete your rant anyway. This thread was not about me. It was about a guy at a skydiving event that was attempting to make what most of us consider to be a poor decision. I am surprised that some of you thought it worth the effort to try and read too deep into the simple response I had to it.

Take care of yourselves and maybe someday you too will have over 25 years in this sport like I do.

Chuck Blue
D-12501

[mjosparky 3]

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don't see why it would be a problem to anyone for me to jump off that rock, fly for 1000 feet vertical, then dump at 2000agl.

Back in the 80’s there were hundreds if not thousands of jumps made off El Cap. using regular skydiving gear. At least 3 that I know of were able to use their reserves, all 3 round reserves, and all survived. While I agree it is better to use task specific equipment when available, it can and has been done safely with skydiving rigs. The guy who started the whole BASE thing never did jump a BASE rig.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[billvon 2,396]

>If all these sites are so legal why do you delete a post that
>mentions a BASE site?

Same reason cavers don't talk about sites. Because:

1) Attracting newbies who do not understand the site can lead to abuse of the site, injuries and deaths
2) Injuries and deaths even at sites that are legal can get them closed very quickly

I often climb in a rocky ravine near Otay. There are a few bolts there. I have no idea if it's legal to climb there or not, but it's low profile and no one seems to care. Seems to work out for all involved.

Heck, people often walk on the beach in San Diego. They don't check to see if they're trespassing, even if they go beyond the lifeguard's flags. If I take a walk down the beach, and someone puts up a fence or asks me to leave, I am happy to oblige.

[NickDG 23]

>>Back in the 80’s there were hundreds if not thousands of jumps made off El Cap. using regular skydiving gear. At least 3 that I know of were able to use their reserves, all 3 round reserves, and all survived.<<

Hundreds, but certainly not thousands. I did El Cap for the first time with a single canopy Velcro closed BASE container in 1987, and my El Cap number is 600 and something.

El Cap has never been safely jumped with skydiving gear - those people just got lucky. And three people dumping reserves off there proves my point not yours . . .

And Carl Boenish, if that's who you mean by the guy that invented it, was the first to understand skydiving gear was meant for another sport. And it's kind of ironic, but he was jumping from a low balloon when he realized it . . .

NickD BASE 194

[Lonnie 0]

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The purpose of my response was simply to say that I, regardless of BASE experience, don't see why it would be a problem to anyone for me to jump off that rock, fly for 1000 feet vertical, then dump at 2000agl.

If, in fact you have no BASE experience, all your years, and all your skydives with a wingsuit are not going to be of any help to you in the first few seconds off that rock. Which would be one of the most dangerous parts of that jump. The Skygod mentality might kill you though


"Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it".
Cool Hand Luke

NEVER GIVE UP!

[peek 20]

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but terms like "stupid," as seen in these posts?

surely as a representative of USPA, you should set a higher standard.

The word "stupid" refers to endangering skydiving, the WFFC, and balloon jumping at the WFFC, and I used it to get my point across. It worked, and it inflamed a number of people, which is regrettable, but is always a risk when you let people know what you think. The main reason for my post was to educate skydivers who may not know about there topics. And in the process I have learned a lot too.

P.S. I want everyone to know that I represent myself only, unless I state otherwise.

[mjosparky 3]

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and my El Cap number is 600 and something.

And my El Cap number is 270 but what does that prove?

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mjosparky 3]

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El Cap has never been safely jumped with skydiving gear - those people just got lucky.

Nick all those people got lucky, now you are reaching.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[TVPB 0]

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My one problem with his last lengthy post was the analogy that my considerable wingsuit experience and accomplishments would lend me no benefit in the theoretical situation I proposed:

The experience is of great benefit. There is no denying that. Once you have the suit flying and you are away from the wall, then it is very much a skydive scenario with a slightly lower deployment altitude and somewhat worser landing areas. You have to get into that position first. I have no doubt you are more than capable of doing it. I also have no doubt that you could probably do a better job than me. But I also have no doubt that I have seen the end result of this belief from other experienced jumpers. There are MANY skydivers with multiples of thousands of jumps that have permanent back injuries, permanent limps, given up the sport, etc. Why? Simple error in BASE led to accident and caused injury.

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That point seems to have been lost somewhere along the way

No it hasn't. What you're saying is very feasable, but not to be encouraged at any time. Would you allow a person with 4000 RW jumps do his first wingsuit flight on one of your complex big ways, a record perhaps? No you wouldn't. I hope. The exit and the first few seconds are the important bit BTW. If you get that right, you have reduced your risks considerably. Exiting a cliff and a plane are two very different things. There are no continuous obstacles when you exit a plane either. There is off a cliff. They are different skills.

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My point was that I am POSITIVE that someone, ANYONE with wingsuit experience showing up with a skydiving rig at that location would get the same amount of grief as this clown in BASE gear at Rantoul

More than likely. I have no sympathy for the guy at Rantoul copping grief. He made a conscious decision, and whenever we make decisions that are outside rules / customs / norms, there may be consequences.

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BASE jumpers/skydivers who simply don't give a rat's ass about what anyone outside their little clique thinks. Law be damed; common sense be damned.

Too true. It happens in both worlds. You should try be a safety police in BASE jumping. It's like herding cats and kids.

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I am positively incredulous at the degree of hero worship that some BASE jumpers have for some truly wreckless individuals.

This is one major factor in some accidents. Some of these individuals have the belief that if that person can do it, so can I. No practice, no preparation, no coaching, no buildup, just do it. THAT IS WHAT I AM FIGHTING AGAINST. Your comment hit the spot with me because I have seen, physically, the end result. If it is a new skill, you ARE a student. That is the bottom line. Cross skilling & transferable skills simply mean you can progress in a new skill faster. Experience does NOT mean you are experienced at the new skill.

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You would bitch at a guy like me for posting what I suspect would be a totally doable jump (the Norway in a skydiving rig thing), but you will positively support and cry over a RANK AMATEUR wingsuit BASE guy who zoo'ed a poised exit out of a Caravan then promply flew himself into a bridge. Give me a break.

I bitch because I see the end result of ego, and I am not happy with it. About the above comment, You have no idea. I was the guy who broke the news of this fatality to the persons mother. Having to do that is worse than watching someone bounce. Gut wrenching stuff. You see, another example of where I really know what the end result of ego is. I knew that jumper very well. I had done lots of jumps with him. I don't usually cry, but I did when that particular tragedy happened. He was the best aerobatic BASE Jumper on the planet. Without a shadow of a doubt. Yet he made some fundamental errors on his last jump that led to his death. I know this. He was shortcutting his way to wingsuiting glory. He wanted to be considered the "best" without putting in all the right preparation (he did do many aircraft wingsuit jumps but I don't think his prep was right for what he was attempting). Bottom line: a guru in one activity quite clearly proved that he was NOT a guru at another, yet. Now he never will be. He was very capable, but the shortcut and cutting it too fine was what cost him.

Your comment (although many levels less than the above example), is philosphically the same. That is why you got a response. BTW, I appreciate the level of respect you are showing for the deceased. He stuffed up. But you want to pick every little error out to emphasize his ineptitude. You ask for respect, yet you show none. I was going to lead with a positive post all round but after you included the above quote, i have had to reverse my decision.

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Listen, I don't care how many jumps, BASE or otherwise, a person has. It's common sense that will keep you alive. Some things just make more sense to reasonable people than to others. If you don't follow the fact that the great majority of responsible adults don't have a problem staying within the boundaries of the law, that's your problem and I can promise you that you are in the minority. Also, tough-guy posturing does not impress people like me, so please save yourself the effort if any of you feel like responding in that way. I would just delete your rant anyway. This thread was not about me. It was about a guy at a skydiving event that was attempting to make what most of us consider to be a poor decision. I am surprised that some of you thought it worth the effort to try and read too deep into the simple response I had to it.

Take care of yourselves and maybe someday you too will have over 25 years in this sport like I do.

Common sense is VIP. Most people fit in the middle of the bell curve and they do reasonable things. All those things are true. But "Great Majority" excludes the idiot minority. There the guys who end up as statistics. And it is not enjoyable dealing with it. "Tough Guy Posturing"??? If someone is saying that your opinion is incorrect and they have logical reasoning as to why this may be the case, and you don't want to listen, that is not tough guy. Most people call this constructive feedback. Albeit in a politically incorrect way.

I did not respond about you, I responded about your comment. Someone else came to the party to put you into the picture. I read into your response because that same philosphy is a root cause to fatalities in both skydiving and BASE jumping.

r.e. deleting my post. Go for it. The discussion has already occured. If you want to deny it by using your editing power, I don't really care. But why would you want to do it? Have I broken one of the posting rules? Am am I offending someone? Have I made a personal attack instead of attacking an attitude that leads to incidents and fatalities in the geater parachuting world? Or is there another reason??

If the post was only about some guy at a skydiving event, why did you bring up BASE Jumping????? Are one of the new forum rules that we are not allowed to respond to the content of someones post???

25 years in the sport. Congratulations.

p.s. all my posts are lengthy, I type fast, and I usually ad lib the thinking on the way - sometimes.

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

With a resume' like yours you should take some of the bullshit out of you profile.


.

[wwarped 0]

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With a resume' like yours you should take some of the bullshit out of you profile.

some would call it a sense of humor, and a lack of self-importance...

I'd rather give respect based on thoughtful advice than extensive experience. (generally, the experience leads to solid advice, but not guaranteed...)

we all (including me) should attempt to understand before jumping to conclusions. heck, non-jumpers can provide incredible advice regarding new BASE sights.

it should be about the knowledge, not the size of someone's following.

DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

[Mikki_ZH 0]

this is his profile if you are interested...
http://ozcrw.tripod.com/about_author.htm

Cheers

Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

[lurch 0]

FWIW
I have decided that I have made an ass of myself and should stay out of this. Gimme another decade in the sport and a few REAL achievements and maybe I'll have some useful input, but for now, I should know better.
Might be asking you for lessons in BASE if I ever meet you, though...
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[MattM 0]

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If, in fact you have no BASE experience, all your years, and all your skydives with a wingsuit are not going to be of any help to you in the first few seconds off that rock. Which would be one of the most dangerous parts of that jump. The Skygod mentality might kill you though

So jumping from a non-moving helicopter or tethered ballon would not help at all?

And please point out how his post was anywhere close to SkyGod like?

Matt

[NickDG 23]

>>and my El Cap number is 600 and something.<<

>>>And my El Cap number is 270 but what does that prove?<<<

It tends to prove the number of jumpers from El Cap in the decade of the 80s didn't approach
"thousands." Even if you count people without numbers - a more accurate description would be hundreds . . .

I believe we are easily in the thousands now – but not in the 1980s.

There is another take on appropriate gear worth considering. Gear only becomes appropriate when its in the right hands. How do we answer the experienced skydiver who said of El Cap he sees no reason he can't, "Fly down a 1000-feet with his skydiving rig and open at 2000-feet." Okay, sounds easy enough until you look back at other skydivers who tried similar plans.

There are some on the List (and also many close calls) when skydivers made that decision. Some lost situational awareness to the point they actually backed into big walls while still in freefall. Some others experienced bad launches and pulled early and unstable only to hit the wall and die.

I'm sure you've been in a balloon with experienced skydivers who are doing it for the first time? Everyone is a bit apprehensive on a first balloon jump. But it's a fun kind of scary. Now add a shear wall to the equation and it isn't fun scary anymore – it's deadly serious scary.

The bottom line is the same thing we've been saying since the 80s. "Don't BASE jump at the drop zone – and don't skydive at the Flat Iron Building."

NickD BASE 194

[Mikki_ZH 0]

I agree with Nick, you do an unstable launch with a WS of a boloon and you will fight a few second and then you will fly. You do an ustable launch with a WS of a wall and chances are big that you die. That's a very big difference which will be in your head before you launch and does not make the things more easy.
It's all about the first few seconds, once you fly it's al good...

Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

[mjosparky 3]

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It tends to prove the number of jumpers from El Cap in the decade of the 80s didn't approach
"thousands." Even if you count people without numbers - a more accurate description would be hundreds

You are probably right, I didn't count them. The point I was trying to make is that El Cap has and can be jumped safely with skydiving gear. Like other BASE jumps, the important thing is the preparation. That can include practice launches from balloons and good coaching.

[Pendragon 1]

I used to think similar - but the point the guys are trying to make is that you just don't know how you're going to feel at the exit point - and that makes all the difference.

I am a pretty awesome tracker out of a plane, yet on my first terminal BASE jump, I didn't do as well as I'd expected I would have done.

Why?

I was nervous, and stiff as a board. Your ability to fly well in a wingsuit stems from your confidence in one, and your knowledge that you can easily be stable, fly well... and be relaxed. This won't translate straight away into a BASE environment. It is quite something to see that wall rushing behind you!
Balloon exits may be similar, but the context makes all the difference.

--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

[jumpwally 0]

Un related to your post,,it never stops to amaze me on how people seem to miss the point and beat each up over the "grey" area.........no one seems to listen....i wonder what outsiders think when hey cruz our site here,,,,yeah,,yeah,,,flame me,,its expected

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083