Good Pilot/Bad Pilot

[Hooknswoop 19]

I hear jumper all the time say so and so is the best pilot ever, a good pilot, etc. What do jumpers base how good a pilot is on? What makes a good pilot or a bad pilot to skydivers?

Derek

[AggieDave 6]

To me, Pilot Mike is one of the best pilots I've had the pleasure of flying with. Of course, he has proven himself when a rented 182 we were using lost its engine on takeoff at roughly 200ft. He was able to level the plane (with 4 jumpers in it), point us at a good field and land us safely. All of us walked away with out a bump or a scratch.

I'd say that's a pretty good pilot.

Too bad he didn't have x-ray vision too, or he'd been able to see the problem and we wouldn't have taken the plane, but an A&P/IA had signed off of the plane not 8hrs of flight time previous with the plane's 100hr and annual.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[dragon2 0]

A good pilot for me would be someone who:
Knows how the GPS works (a mile is a mile is a mile, or not...)
Knows about different disciplines/groups or is willing to listen (give green early if there's 3 newbie FS4 teams, let me out on a looong spot since I have a wingsuit, stuff like that)
Makes decent turnaround times but not at the cost of the jumpers
Will smile/geek for the camera for tandem video etc
Is very safety-conscious of course
Knows how to find the holes
Will give us extra alti whenever possible

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Fast 0]

It seems like a pretty big question but some of the thing thats stand out to me are the time and care that the person puts into what they are doing. Things like consistantly keeping up to date with changing winds, making sure that the spot is working for the jumpers, adjusting to concerns that people have, the ability to do this "on the fly."

Being an effecient pilot speaks too. Knowing how to fly to altitude and end up right on the mark w/o wasting time, fuel, and essentially the DZs(and my) money. Doing things like using the GPS and varying flight vectors to check the exact direction the wind is coming from. Always being conscious of where they are (we are near a town and there are noise abatement rules.) Ensuring things don't happen that shouldn't (overloading, etc)

Knowing enough about skydiving to know where people will be in freefall and under canopy. Having good eyes to spot people or other planes in the air. Being consistant so that jumpers can have some idea of where the plane is. Noticing when people land off and when its lots of people thinking to ask if the next load wants a different spot.

For most pilots, but especially the lead or one in charge, making sure that the plane only flys when it should be. Keeping it in good shape, making sure its well maintained, not taking risk with regard to whats safe.


I'm sure there is more that makes a pilot stand out to me.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[davelepka 4]

It takes time to determine the quality of a pliot. The ability to follow a procedure, and repeat that over time is what makes a good pilot. If a pilot can do the following consistantly, then they can be classified as good:

-proper preiflight of the aircraft
-follow a checklist prior to every take-off
-proper communtication with ATC/tower/other AC (a good realtionship with the ATC/tower personel shows an ablility to communicate with others, as well as follow instructions/procedures effectively)
-follow a checklist proir to every landing

The only way to confirm all of the foolwing is by observing a pilot over time, including sitting right seat (or watching them in a Cessna), wearing a headset (if available), and, yes, riding the plane down from time to time (easier if you are a paid jumper who's student is a no-go).

All of the talk about the winds, GPS, spotting, etc may make a good jump pilot, but all that does is make the jumpers life easier, and has no bearing on the pilots abaility to safely operate the AC. My father is a multi rated CFI-I, and couldn't spot a load to save his life, however, I would fly with anytime, anywhere.

[Scrumpot 1]

What are you doing here, Derek?
...Trying yet again to make all us inherently visceral skydivers instead: THINK??

"My" Pilot is ALWAYS "the best"!
"My" (home or trained-at) Dropzone is ALWAYS the "safest".

Period.

C'mon now Derek. We ALL already KNOW that!

Blues,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Fast 0]

Quote

All of the talk about the winds, GPS, spotting, etc may make a good jump pilot, but all that does is make the jumpers life easier, and has no bearing on the pilots abaility to safely operate the AC. My father is a multi rated CFI-I, and couldn't spot a load to save his life, however, I would fly with anytime, anywhere.

I can go ahead and add everything you said to things that make me think a pilot is good too. I guess I geared what I had to say to skydiving since it seemed like the answer derek was looking for. Maybe not.

Maybe he was trying to fish out skydivers who don't care about saftey. Maybe he was trying to fish out your answer that makes us think we don't know what the hell were are talking about... I dont know.

I do know that most people probally don't think much about it. I care as far as saftey to a concern. I wouldn't fly with someone at all who I don't think is capable of being a safe pilot.

I view being able to do the things you describe more to that ends. A good pilot to me is someone who is both safe and can meet the needs I have as a skydiver. (Which include not dieing in a plane crash or midair collision)

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[davelepka 4]

Yeah, I get that were skydivers talking about skydiving, so naturally, all the spotting stuff comes up. I think the original intent was get people to think through their criteria for what a good pilot is.

Many jumpers will assume that the guy thats been flying them at their home DZ is a good pilot because they know and like the guy, and everything seems to go OK with regards to the AC.

The idea may be to get some ideas and thoughts out there for jumpers who maybe don't have a good knowledge of flying of what to look for when evaluating a pilot. Yeah, the jumper related stuff sure helps out, but if they guy isn't checking the tanks for water in the fuel, or double checking his trim settings before begining the take-off roll, none of that stuff will matter.

[AndyMan 7]

Here's my list:

1. Love repeating the same tasks over and over. Follow a checklist every time.
2. don't be lazy. Don't take shortcuts.
3. Don't drink. Often times pilots are offered drinks at the end of the day. Good pilots turn them down when they have to work the next day. No, not even "just 1".

I've mentioned my first 3, and the pilot hasn't even gotten off the ground yet.

4. Don't show off. Low flybys, zero/negative-g's, unnecesarily steep climbs at the end of the takeoff, and wingovers at the end of jumprun are all unnecesary. Do those with your own plane without passengers.
5. Communicate. Keep good relationshions with your airport, other users of the airport, air traffic control, and manifest. At Chicagoland we have gliders at the other end of the runway.

Lastly, fly a good jumprun and know how to spot. In my book, this is at the bottom of the list for a reason.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Beerlight 0]

- smooth on the controls
- knows their shit
- knows enough about their shit to get you outta shit when the shit hits the fan

over,

Buck

[DZJ 0]

I'd say the one key characteristic is professionalism.

[PhreeZone 15]

I look for pilots that are sticking the tanks every time they get a chance, the ones that are constantly scanning the gauges during loading, taxi, take off and in flight. Ones that are activly adjusting the throttles and pitch angle based on the situation. A good pilot is talking to ATC all the climb up and visually confirming any traffic in their area rather then just trusting ATC. Some of the best pilots I've seen might not be the fastest climbers, but they maintain better situational awareness then the fastest climbers.

I really like a pilot thats willing to sit at the end of the runway/ taxi way waiting on all the canopies to land before getting near a landing area to avoid potential wind currents from the engines being pointed into the landing area and to avoid jumpers landing near the blades.

I really respect pilots that say no to some of the requests jumpers ask (like 0-g's, climb faster, more altitude above 15k, dropping into solid clouds).

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Spizzzarko 0]

1. A pilot who doesn't bitch when you tell them to go around (they have to understand that you can see more than they can).

2. One who doesn't climb the plane with the stall horn going off all the time (What is gained from that).

3. One who will give you an accurate report on the weather conditions (the plane may fly through a lot of wx, but you are the one jumping out).

4. One who feels Positve and Negative G's are a No No (They usually don't own the plane, and you have to deal with the situation too if a wing comes off).

5. I pilot who will look out the window of the aircraft instead of being glued to the GPS (believe it or not there are many other planes out there, and the big sky theory is getting smaller and smaller by the day. Jumper's should not hesitate to call out other air traffic to the "Throttle Yoke Actuator" (mechanic's term for a pilot)).

6. Some one who is not Skip Moreau from Hi Sky Adventures, in Canon City, Co. (All the old timers don't call him Skip the stupid pilot for a reason).

These are just a few things I thought of really quickly.

[Buried 0]

Good Pilot/Bad Pilot i'm the one with the gun .


good pilot - does not rely 100% in gps. keeps informed of winds

Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?

[diverdriver 5]

Quote

3. Don't drink. Often times pilots are offered drinks at the end of the day. Good pilots turn them down when they have to work the next day. No, not even "just 1".


_Am

After flying 30+ loads (12-13 hours per day) I sure as hell appreciated a Heineken handed up through the window while the engines spooled down. And honestly, I might have another one with dinner. Then I'd crash in bed to get up before anyone else to do it all over again on Sunday. If you judge what I did as bad well, then... that's the way you see it. Hope I didn't scare you at any time. I know I had mostly 10-12 hours between drinking and flying the next day. I figured that was sufficient.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[AndyMan 7]

Since I don't own a DZ and you don't work for me, it really doesn't matter what I think.

That said, that's something I respect in a Pilot. No particular reason you have to agree.

There are too many pilots in skydiving who are too loose with booze. I'd prefer there be no question. Pilots who draw a plain and simple line and don't cross it earn my respect.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[airdvr 197]

Unfortunately you never know how good your pilot is until he's faced with a situation requiring him to use his skills and decision making to get you out of a bad situation. Not unlike jumping, gravity works with us until one day it decides to work against us.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[hookncrater 0]

Hell yeah the pilot deserves a cold one after the day is over!

________________________________________________________________________________
when in doubt... hook it!

[billvon 2,400]

>I hear jumper all the time say so and so is the best pilot ever, a good pilot, etc.

I have met four or five bad pilots in my time. Two are now dead. Two fly for major airlines, and if I ever hear "Welcome to United, XXX will be your captain today" I'm getting off the plane.

[diverdriver 5]

Quote

>I hear jumper all the time say so and so is the best pilot ever, a good pilot, etc.

I have met four or five bad pilots in my time. Two are now dead. Two fly for major airlines, and if I ever hear "Welcome to United, XXX will be your captain today" I'm getting off the plane.

Bill! I told you! I fly for United EXPRESS.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

If you judge what I did as bad well, then... that's the way you see it.

Well, I'm sure that Andy never ever drinks if he's jumping other then solos the next day or more importantly if he's doing coach jumps. Since by his standard when others are in your care (other jumpers on your 8-way, whatever, or your student) you shouldn't drink at all, not even one, the night before.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[scdrnr 0]

Death and the airlines seem to be a common theme for bad pilots.

Of course, plenty of good pilots end up the same way too.

Good airmanship is hard to define, but I know it when I see it.

Some of the worst pilots I know adhere to checklists and procedures religiously.

Some of the best pilots I know have wrecked several airplanes.

The rule for drinking and flying is 8 hours. I don't think that a few drinks at the end of a hard days work is being too "loose".

[LearningTOfly 0]

Keep in mind that a pilot is usually the first to his/ her crash site, and naturally does their best to keep alive- if they stay alive, the pax usually do too.

That being said, a good pilot is one who THINKS. Employers don't pay pilots to fly- they pay pilots for good judgement.

[LearningTOfly 0]

Quote

Some of the worst pilots I know adhere to checklists and procedures religiously.

Some of the best pilots I know have wrecked several airplanes.

This is something to note, and is very true (on a general basis- er, statement one specifically).

Keep the scudrunning safe.

[rhino 0]

Good pilot can land the plane safely if the engine quits just after takeoff. Lands with ZERO power every time.. Keeps other planes away from me when I'm flying around at 12,000 feet. He's anal retentive on gas, how much is left. Loves to keep up with maint..

That's a start...