Being told NOT to check the spot!

[skybill 19]

Hi Jumper,
Good job!! I had some similar experiences like yours in the past. Handeled them much the same as you did. I think I (we) did the right thing, my next jump anniversary will be my 43rd!! 'Must've done sumthin' right!!!

Don't worry, there'll be more geeks like the last one!! just beware.

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[BIGUN 1,061]

You can pitch a rock out of an airplane 5,000 times; it's still a rock. Numbers impress whuffos only.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[shropshire 0]

I look out of the plane before I jump due to my safety and all those around me. I will NOT be rushed.
I check ..

The spot

Airspace

Altitude

etc..

This gezza sound like a knob and I'd rather he left the plane before me (or better yet... from a different lift)!

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[BillyVance 34]

I don't care what the pilot or DZ staff says, if you want to check the spot, you have every goddamn right to. It's your ass going out the door. For all you know, there might be a stray plane passing underneath that nobody knew about. And, pilots aren't perfect with the GPS spotting. Even Mike Mullins has screwed it up once in a while, but rarely.

I admit that I don't check it much because I take things for granted at the DZs I frequent. But anyone that wants to check, should be allowed to, and to hell with anyone that says otherwise.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[kallend 1,635]

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I had something happen today that really made me quite upset. I jump at a couple of different dropzones, and today I was first out, opened the door, looked down for a second (literally maybe one second) and exited the plane. On the next jump, first out again, a jumper employed by the DZ said to me, "why do you look down before you exit, when the pilot yells door that means open the door and get out of the plane" I responded "I always check the spot to make sure we arent off." He seemed very aggravated by this and said "No one in the plane is waiting for you to make sure its ok, no one back here trusts you, we trust (pilots name) just open the door and get out." I didnt pursue the matter anymore to say that I check the spot for ME not for anyone else, and yes, I will check the spot before I exit and aircraft, and proceeded to on that jump. Ive seen this person be rude to other people at various times, but this seems just plain dangerous. If I had been a jumper with 30 jumps and was told never to check the spot, I would probably think thats the right thing to do. I dont think ill be frequenting that DZ again. Am I wrong in feeling upset by this? Id love to hear if anyone else has been yelled at for checking the spot.

Is this DZ policy, or just some jerk making stuff up?

Were you solo or part of a group? Was everyone behind you solo or in groups? Who determined the exit order?

If it's a big turbine plane why was the pilot yelling instead of turning on a light?

Lots of strange things here.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

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You can pitch a rock out of an airplane 5,000 times; it's still a rock. Numbers impress whuffos only.

True enough... we've all had the same number of jumps at one time or another... Zero... same thing, different words, Gravity Don't Care How Many Jumps You Have.

[DSE 3]

I'd mentioned in another thread, how I'd allowed myself and my jump partner to be rushed out by some screaming freeflyers at a DZ in Australia. Had my first off-landing ever (and haven't experienced another one yet), and damn near hurt myself trying to avoid water, powerlines, and a busy road. Next time it happened, I just turned and smiled at them, and offered them my hand by way of suggesting "After you..."
When it *did* happen, the S&TA came up to profusely apologize for the spot, apparently the pilot misread the GPS.
You're the one jumping out. You're the one responsible for *your* safety. Just as no one else is responsible for you saving your ass when you've got to pull silver....do what you think is right. If you're wrong, you'll figure that out too.
Just today, had a VERY long spot due to the pilot not noticing we had a tail wind. Could have been disastrous if we hadn't all pulled a tad high.
Pilots, electronics, whatever can make mistakes. Don't let their mistakes become yours.

[chrismgtis 0]

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You will see lots of dumb and dangerous people in your jumping career. Obviously this person is one of them.

I second that motion.

Not checking your spot = stupid, irresponsible, dangerous and retarded.

If he doesn't like it, thats too bad and I would speak to the DZO about it. If the DZO has a problem with it, don't go back.

I may only have 19 jumps, but I know no one has the right to tell you not to check your spot. Even if the DZO is the one telling you. If you're on the plane, it's your life, and you paid for that jump. Check your spot. I wouldn't really come back again in that case though.

I don't see taking 5-7 seconds a problem. I've had plenty of people TELL me to wait that long.

Personally I think anyone pushing people out of the airplane needs to be banned from that DZ and possibly reported to the USPA or FAA so he can possibly be shitlisted from DZs and/or fined or charged with something for putting people in danger. If anyone is telling you not to check the spot he needs to be reported to the DZO.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[justinb138 0]

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Personally I think anyone pushing people out of the airplane needs to be banned from that DZ and possibly reported to the USPA or FAA so he can possibly be shitlisted from DZs and/or fined or charged with something for putting people in danger.

Just so you know, the USPA can't do anything other than revoke someone's membership (and that wouldn't happen), and the FAA can only take action against FAA-certified people (pilot, etc..). The general feeling in the sport is that less gov't involvement is better.

Personally, if someone pushed me out of the airplane, we'd be having some not-so-friendly words on the ground afterword.

[chrismgtis 0]

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Just so you know, the USPA can't do anything other than revoke someone's membership (and that wouldn't happen), and the FAA can only take action against FAA-certified people (pilot, etc..). The general feeling in the sport is that less gov't involvement is better..

Yea what I actually meant by that was since USPA has pull on DZ's they could say "Don't let this asshat jump at your DZ". Not that they have any way to do that, but it would be nice. =P

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[DougH 270]

We are adults, we don't need the USPA to do that, especially when a good healthy "F*** Off" gets the point across.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[anewempire 0]

i had 40+ jumps or so and i was at a dz and when the door opened i went to check the spot with one of the employees at the dz and when i looked out he pushed me back and kept checking the spot himself. there's a lot of airplane activity at this airport and i was just checking for aircraft. i don't understand what was so wrong about me wanting to spot for myself. this was one of the guys who taught me to skydive and he always made it clear that in skydiving we're responsible for saving our own lives in this sport. his actions are a little contradictory to his words. it pissed me off when he pushed me away from the door (and it was a caravan, it was an effing huge door so its not like i was in his way). when he was done spotting he proceeded to rush me out the door. it was a plane with just me, him, and 2 tandems... there was no reason to rush me and not let me even look

[riggerrob 558]

Poor teaching technique by that J/M.
Junior jumpers can learn a lot by looking over the shoulder of a senior spotter.

[riggerrob 558]

Pre-spotting - for a minute or two - is the best way to handle this sort of bully.

By pre-spotting, I mean getting your eye balls outside the airplane for the last couple of minutes before the pilot tells you to open the door. Pre-spotting will tell you the big picture: distance from DZ, jump run heading, clouds, air traffic, etc. long before you open the door. Then after you open the door, you only need a quick glance downwards to confirm that you are directly over the DZ.

Pre-spotting is also a good habit for skydivers sitting in the co-pilot's seat or sitting on benches on the side opposite the door, because air traffic is difficult to spot at the best of times and the more eyeballs outside the airplane the better.
For example, the skydiver sitting in the co-pilot's set has a far better view off the right side of the nose than the pilot will ever see.

[VincentVL. 0]

I see stupid people. They don't know they're stupid. They don't see each other. They only see what they want to see.

Yes.

[Joellercoaster 6]

It's also possible he thought you were jumping the gun, and didn't want you to exit prematurely... it's also possible he was being a git, but you won't know if you don't ask.

Us newbies do a lot of silly things early on, and a lot of senior jumpers' immediate response when they see us do something unexpected is "uh-oh, prevent!" before even thinking about what we might be trying to do. Which, having seen some stuff already, isn't entirely unreasonable

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[GQ_jumper 4]

Pre-spotting - for a minute or two - is the best way to handle this sort of bully.***

I second that, paying attention all the way to altitude will pay off, you really wanna try something fun, try being military JM, the way the military over safeties everything, you're giving altimeter checks, telling people when to arm their AAD's, giving winds, checking the spot, recalculating freefall drift on the way too altitude, giving time warnings, checking O2 systems, helping people rig their gear on teh way to altitude, it all seems to make the climb to altitude so much quicker

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[Remster 24]

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Someone who didn't look before they leaped and the jump pilot thought everything was just A-OK

===========================
Skydiver Dies After Hitting Propeller

Michele Thibaudeax, 37, an expert skydiver from Carterswell, Georgia, died in a skydiving accident on May 27 at Skydive San Marcos in Texas. She was participating in a 30-way formation skydive, exiting from a King Air which was to be flying trail behind an Otter. At exit time the King Air ended up in front and above the Otter. Shortly after exiting the King Air, Michele struck the propeller of the Otter. One camera flyer who observed the impact managed to fly to her and pull her reserve handle, succeeding on the second attempt. But the reserve had been badly damaged during the collision and did not deploy correctly. Michele landed off the DZ in a yard, and she was pronounced dead at the scene, having been seriously injured from the chest up by the prop-strike. The incident, supposedly the first of its kind in skydiving history, is being investigated by the National Transportation Safety Board.

This doesnt have anything to do with spoting or checking the airspace. It was a formation load with planes that were been flown in a compatible maner (If I remember right, lead caravan, trail king air, and the king air caught up during exit).

When we do a formation load, if you are a late diver, you cannot check your spot. You make the choice of trusting the person in the door, and in this case, at the moment of set up, things were fine if I recall corectly.

This doesnt have much to do with this issue here.

Remster

[Lastchance 0]

You are in charge of your life. You are in charge of your skydive. Don't let some impatient asshole make your skydive unsafe. If you want to spend a couple seconds of your life to check your spot, then do it.

I may be getting old but I got to see all the cool bands.

[Remster 24]

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in a compatible maner (

Sorry, I should have typed: in a non compatible maner.

Remster

[marks2065 0]

if the pilots are good they will clime and turn keeping the dz in sight from the door - i check for aircraft (we have alot of gliders) the last 2500 feet and our pilot keeps the otter door to the dz and we know the air space is clear from local aicraft when we turn on jump run

[rehmwa 2]

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Pre-spotting - for a minute or two -

Great point - one thing we see in this type of thread is a lot of examples where "I looked out the door and couldn't find the DZ anywhere and they were yelling GOGOGOGOGO"

why the heck wait until the door is open to figure out where the DZ is?

I don't know a single jump plane that has no windows....

first out SHOULD check for traffic and a spot - it doesn't take much time if we are paying attention. first out should also know how to spot for the entire plane and should know how to choose a spot too - but the world's not always perfect.

and all you solos and 2ways really need to stop whining about 4ways and larger - it's very old. 20 seconds for a 10 way is still tons faster than five 2ways taking 8 seconds each......

that said, big ways need to account for climbout, and if first out the spot should also consider climbout (tell the pilot if you'd like the green light 2 tenths earlier for a big way climbout...)

should, should, should, should,

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[BillyVance 34]

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I don't know a single jump plane that has no windows....

There are some Cessna Grand Caravans (the cargo version) that have no windows behind the cockpit, so the only place to look out is at the door. I remember a plane formation jump at Gold Coast a few years ago where the trailing plane's load could not see the lead plane's group exit. We were waaaaaay late.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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[bob.dino 0]

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I remember a plane formation jump at Gold Coast a few years ago where the trailing plane's load could not see the lead plane's group exit. We were waaaaaay late.

Put tall people outside. They can see over the aircraft if standing in the door

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[BillyVance 34]

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I remember a plane formation jump at Gold Coast a few years ago where the trailing plane's load could not see the lead plane's group exit. We were waaaaaay late.

Put tall people outside. They can see over the aircraft if standing in the door

It wouldn't have mattered on that jump. The pilots weren't exactly experienced in flying formation loads. Nobody could even see the lead plane itself.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban