spence09 0 #1 December 29, 2006 Man, I know I should know better by now with 14 jumps, but for some reason when I go to pull, I start a heavy spin, usually to the right. My wave off is fine and I don't always spin, but sometimes I spin so bad I have to go stop the turn then try to pull again. I'm still pulling at 4000', so I give myself time for stuff like that, but still I feel retarded that I can't pull straight every time. I was just wondering what could be causing this, I'm not leaning either direction, I'm just turning. Should I use my legs to stop the spin rather than my arms, or are my legs perhaps what causes the spin? I don't know, your ideas please, thanks I think I'll make it back to the dz, damn that was a bad spot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,068 #2 December 29, 2006 Trying to isolate it on the 'net will be difficult. My suggestion would be to have a Coach or good vidiot go with you to get on-the-spot corrective measures.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #3 December 29, 2006 have you considered jumping with a coach... its something that you will need to do to get your A license and since none of us have probably seen you jump all we can do is speculate as to what imbalance is causing you to turn when you reach to deploy. A coach on the other hand can go through a few of your requirements and then will be able to observe your deployment and should be able to point out what you're doing to cause the problem... but that's just my 2 cents... Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Suavel 0 #4 December 29, 2006 Make sure you're bringing your left arm over when you pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BASE841 3 #5 December 29, 2006 Bigun is right, that's tough to diagnose on-line, and an in-air video or coach is what you need. That said, I've seen a good number of my students start to turn at pull time. Usually, they get focused on the pull and forget to keep heading, usually looking down. Often these same student jumpers get tense and stiff at that time which leads to at least potato-chipping and often an unintentional turn. You might try taking a deep, relaxing breath and find a point on the horizon at pull time. That often works for my students. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miami 0 #6 December 29, 2006 How are your practice pulls? I quite often see students able to do perfectly stable practice pulls but when they get to the real pull they tense up and it ends of not being as stable of a pull. My best advice is to go up on a jump and do plenty of practice pulls...even fly in the pull position for a bit, then when it gets to be time for your real pull think of it just like the practice touch...only throw the pc instead of only touching it. If you get a coach or vidiot to go up with you even better. Good luck!Miami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #7 December 29, 2006 QuoteMake sure you're bringing your left arm over when you pull. Not that simple. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Suavel 0 #8 December 29, 2006 QuoteQuoteMake sure you're bringing your left arm over when you pull. Not that simple. I totally agree. The best course of action would be to jump with a coach, instructor, or decent videot to try and pinpoint this problem. It sounds like it's a pretty consistent problem at a predictable point in the skydive. It could be that spence tends to tense his legs in a particular way when he pulls, or something even more obscure. I had a problem with being thrown wobbly at pull time, I wasn't bringing my arm over fully. That could be one of the things that spence can look at on his next skydive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #9 December 29, 2006 Wobbly openings are fun! http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j35/scooper85/?action=view¤t=Scoop7.flv Kicking out line twists is charachter building! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbanning 0 #10 December 29, 2006 I have a similar problem, out of the last 6 jumps, I have only 2 perfect pulls. I tense up during pull time for some reason, I call it "pull anxiety". Its just one of those things I have to get through. I have been told by everyone at my DZ that each person has struggled with something that seems easy to do...Good luck, definitley get a coach jump with film and fix the issue.........James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spence09 0 #11 December 29, 2006 My practice pulls are pretty sucky too, I still have alittle spin, I've gotten a few of them straight, but the majority of them leave me in a slight turn, which leads to a worse spin. I've done my practice pulls and just held them to see how to fix them, but usually get too unstable and have to go back neutral. Yeah having a couched jump would probably be the best thing, I'm thinkin it's either my legs or my head placement. (not lookin at the horizon, possibly) I was told the other day after a two way with one of my friends that my legs didn't look that good, just kinda flopping around, so I really need to work on leg awareness. well, thanks for a replies I think I'll make it back to the dz, damn that was a bad spot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #12 December 29, 2006 Jumping with a coach can be useful. I've found this drill to be useful as well. While in freefall, assume the pull position. Be sure to use positive leg pressure and a positive but relaxed arch. Leg awareness is key. Fly the pull position for the entire drill. Watch your heading and hold it for a few seconds. You should be able to see your hand in front as well. Remember the symetrical leg position and positive pressure on the legs. (The does not mean straight legs. It means legs out with wind pressure against the shins.) Slowly turn 360 degrees to the right then pause at the original heading. Then turn 360 degrees to the left back to original heading and pause again. Sounds pretty easy and it is. But at first, controlling that position while intentionally turning may feel a bit strange. When it's really time to pull, start the sequence a little early so you have time to fly the pull position in control. Good luck.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jarrodh 0 #13 December 29, 2006 Even if I did a jump with you and saw you were spinning I wouldnt know how to correct it so online I cant give you any advice on flying. HOWEVER! I did notice you said Quote My wave off is fine and I don't always spin, but sometimes I spin so bad I have to go stop the turn then try to pull again. I wouldnt consider myself an afficionado in any field of skydiving but I have essentially memorized the Integrated Student Program in the SIM and it states... **Priorities are in the following order of importance (top down): (1) Pull. (2) Pull at the correct altitude. (3) Pull while stable. My only advice to you as a fellow beginner is if you find yourself at pull time even if your in a wicked turn you gotta pull. The SIM states that your stability (while still important) is way less important then if you pull at the right altitude. Even if you build in extra time to correct your spin you may one day lose altitude awareness and be lower then you think and waiting to re-stabilize before you pull could be big time trouble. Im not saying you would sacrifice your safety for stability but Im just letting you know what the SIM has to say about pull time instability. Like you said above me everyone struggles with something "easy" at first, mine is landing...so there you go. Hope this is useful. PEACE! **This is a direct quote from the SIM2 BITS....4 BITS....6 BITS....A DOLLAR!....ALL FOR THE GATORS....STAND UP AND HOLLER!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #14 December 29, 2006 This article from the BPA mag might prove useful. Its about stability at pull time amongst other things http://www.bpa.org.uk/skydive/pages/articles/jun06/bodylanguagehigh.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #15 December 29, 2006 What I've seen more often than not is dipping the shoulder when reaching back to pull. Leg position changes usually result as the body dips to the right and the legs try to compensate. If you're pulling right-handed, the tendency is to dip the right shoulder while reaching back and that initiates a turn. It also affects your stability which kicks in the leg action. If this is your case, concentrate on keeping shoulders parallel to the horizon and only move your arms in unison for pulling (left-hand way out front, right hand reaching to pull) and then after the pitch, again in unison, move your arms back to the neutral position all in one smooth motion. You can practice this on the ground on a horizontal trainer or table top. A Coach jump, preferrably with video, is highly recommended. Hope this helps.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
floridadiver81 0 #16 December 29, 2006 Thank you for posting this. i found alot of it useful...for being a new jumper!"Age has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge, learning, respect, attitude, or personality." -yardhippie "Fight the air, and the air will kick your ass!!! "-Specialkaye Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miami 0 #17 December 30, 2006 If you're having trouble with your practice pulls as well I highly suggest you do a dive or two following the dive flow hookitt spelled out, preferably with video. Legs awareness is poor? Were you a static line student? A good exercise I have some of my student do is to lay on the floor (with cushion under the hips) in front of a sofa or recliner. Place yourself so that you can press the tops of your feet/toes on the sofa with you legs extended at about 45 degrees, then practice arching and pressing your feet against the couch (simulating pushing against wind resistance). Then do practice touches while assuming this position. Hope that helps...Miami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n_pertuset 0 #18 December 30, 2006 I haven't read any of the replies here, but try going into your "pull position" at terminal. Hold it for a few seconds. If you're turning, you're throwing your body position off somehow. If you start spinning, try and fix it. Try to pin point what it is (arms, legs, shoulders, etc). As stated above, when students go to pull, sometimes they just go for it, and yank it out (or throw it). Chilling out in your "pull position" for a while might help. After you do that, do some practice pulls. Do them slow though. I'm not an instructor, or anyone with any experience. This is just what I would do. NathanNathan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #19 December 30, 2006 Quote ...even fly in the pull position for a bit, Good advice. The pull position should be a stable position, no turns or bobbling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris-Ottawa 0 #20 December 30, 2006 Hey man, There is a lot of good advice being given here, but I think you don't need any of it. Well, I take that back, you will likely benefit from it...but not now. Check out this video. This is me on my 31st jump, notice what happens when I dump. http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=6869511102803883749&q=skydiving+backflips After getting this video, this no longer happens. You have to always be aware of your legs and spare hand. I've learnt that I can stop that spin by cupping my hand or changing my leg positions. I can now put one arm on my chest and compensate with my legs. It comes in time when you're more aware of your body position. If you read my log book, all through AFF I was trying to use my legs and it was causing problems, now I've learnt to pay attention to the rest of my body, not just where's that hackey. You may also notice a big difference with a different jumpsuit. I bought an RW suit with booties and I LOVE it. I have tonnes more control than I do without. Trust me, this will all come with time. Hope this helps, don't fret it. Chris EDIT: I just rewatched my video and I never really payed attention to my legs but without really trying, i'm using them to start and stop my turns. Look specifically at my last turn before crossing over my instructor, I really hammer my leg out to stop the turn. I don't remember doing that. Like I said, it'll come in time and you'll notice that you'll get much more comfortable in the air."When once you have tasted flight..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ntrprnr 0 #21 December 30, 2006 Of course, talk to a coach, but what works for ME (and may or may not work for you) is to breathe, and on the exhale, relax your body, and visualize what you're doing, since you can't look at it. Visualize the pilot chute going out into the airstream, catching air, and lifting the D-Bag off your back, and your legs coming forward as the canopy starts to inflate. The deep breath is key. Good luck! Again, though, talk to a coach, teacher, etc._______________ "Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?" "Even in freefall, I have commitment issues." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #22 December 30, 2006 QuoteThere is a lot of good advice being given here, but I think you don't need any of it. Well, I take that back, you will likely benefit from it...but not now. Replies (advice) from: Jumps: 4760 In sport: 32 years Jumps: 4800 In sport: 16 years Jumps: 3100 In sport: 9 years Jumps: 4500 In sport: 12 years Jumps:1150 In sport: 27 years Jumps: 1700 In sport:15 years (Not too sure about this one) Jumps: 100000 In sport: 99 years Accumulative Experience Level - Replies (advice) from: Total Jumps: 20,010 Total Years in Sport: 111 -Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #23 December 30, 2006 skewed that freakin graph, didn't I? Sorry to see someone say that, right now, the OP didn't need any of the helpful hints put out there.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,068 #24 December 30, 2006 QuoteWere you a static line student? A good exercise I have some of my student do is to lay on the floor (with cushion under the hips) in front of a sofa or recliner. Place yourself so that you can press the tops of your feet/toes on the sofa with you legs extended at about 45 degrees, then practice arching and pressing your feet against the couch (simulating pushing against wind resistance). Then do practice touches while assuming this position. Hmmm... Old school, static-line days, pre-tunnel learning shit. I'm feeling a bit emotional right now. Can I get a hug? Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NelKel 0 #25 December 31, 2006 miami nailed it i think. Just from reading the title I thought about leg awarness. I had the same trouble as a student. Of course no one can tell but a coach or jump master, so buy a coach jump and get it videoed. good luck_________________________________________ Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
