Main canopy failure to fully inflate

[Pasha 0]

These are photos of my friend's first jump on a brand new 120 sq.f. nine-cell elliptical, w/l 1.8. He pulled at 6500 ft. since it was his first jump on it, cut away at 3500 ft. It opened very hard with central cells mostly closed, neither riser nor toggle inputs improved the situation. Actually front riser input resulted in picture No. 2.

The question is what could possibly result in such an opening?

Next two jumps were O.K., but what happened on the first one?

[rwieder 0]

looks like a line over to me, but i can't see if it is or not.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[piisfish 135]

did he have to cutaway ? or did the canopy finally fully inflated ??

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Pasha 0]

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looks like a line over to me, but i can't see if it is or not.

No, it is not a lineover definitely.

[John4455 0]

Its kind of hard to tell. It almost looks like something is putting tension on the inside a or b lines, pulling the center of the nose down.

How do ya like it Johnny?

[Pasha 0]

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did he have to cutaway ? or did the canopy finally fully inflated ??

Yes, as the canopy did not inflated he cutaway at 3500 ft. He would have cutaway higher but did not want to loose a canopy as it was cloudy.

[goose491 0]

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did he have to cutaway ? or did the canopy finally fully inflated ??

The post says he cut away at 3500ft.


Ah, yeah, looks like a lineover... but there is no line over [scratches head]

One thing I note in the second pic is how closely the pilot chute is following the tail edge of the canopy... But that doesn't say much to me other than something isn't right. Of course, the fact that the canopy is near folded in half tells me that too.

hmmm.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[PhreeZone 15]

The center A's are under full tension, but the B's are not loaded at all. Its almost like something has them under more tension then the outer lines have on them. No clue on how that could cause this though.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[goose491 0]

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Its kind of hard to tell. It almost looks like something is putting tension on the inside a or b lines, pulling the center of the nose down.

That was my first impression...

Could maybe the Bridle be wraped around a couple of the centre-front lines?

That would explain the tension on them (or lack of tension on the centre lines from the middle back) and also the fact that the pilot chute is so close in the second shot.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[AggieDave 6]

Was the line trim checked before the jump? I'm not talking about with a measuring tape, but laying the canopy out to make sure everything looked like they matched each other? How about the bartacks on the cascades? What about the overall check of the canopy fabric?

It almost looks like the center A/B lines are waaay out of trim, but then again, I'm not a rigger, so I'm sure someone will come up with a better theory.

Also, was the canopy thoroghly checked after the jump? Was anything unusual?

EDIT:

Stupid question, he didn't have a very large uncollapsable pilot chute did he?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[TALONSKY 0]

The pictures look very similar to how my Xaos 98 27 cell will open on rare occassions. On my Xaos occasionally the end cells will inflate and start flying while the center is not inflated. To get the canopy fully inflated just pull down on the rear risers and it will inflate the center. I have no idea my Xaos opens this way on occasions but the way I deal with it is I pack leaving the center three cells exposed with no slider infront of them and put the other three cells each side back so only the center three are exposed.
Kirk

[skymedic 0]

on that second pic it almost looks like there is a PC in the lines just about the slider in the pic. I could be wrong but that is what it looks like to me..

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[John4455 0]

In picture 3 it looks like the center a/b lines are wrapped around its matching c/d line pulling the nose down.

How do ya like it Johnny?

[payback462 0]

i dont really have any idea what it was, but ive had the same thing happen to me on my vengeance a bunch of times (someone else also had the same situation on a different vengeance), its always cleared itself though.

id suggest sending it back to the manufacturer since its a new canopy.
also did he roll the nose??

[AggieDave 6]

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on that second pic it almost looks like there is a PC in the lines just about the slider in the pic.

I think that's the slider tabs, but that's just because I can't find anything in pic 3 to back up a PC in the lines scenerio.

I've had a PC in the lines on my XF2 loaded at 1.9:1 a couple of times (hell I've had a drogue in my lines a couple of times on tandems too), it did nothing on this scale. Infact on one jump I was too engaged in what was going on around me and the canopy didn't feel weird in the saddle, that I didn't notice it and still did my normal 270 approach. It wasn't till I saw a video of the landing that I saw the PC in the lines.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[piisfish 135]

sorry, didn't see it in the first thread... Should read twice

Looks more or less like the kind of collapse we get with paragliders when pulling the 2 center A lines slightly. Did anything get caught in the lines ??

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Pasha 0]

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on that second pic it almost looks like there is a PC in the lines just about the slider in the pic. I could be wrong but that is what it looks like to me..

Although it's not clear from the video, according to pilot bridle and pilotchute were where they should be and when the canopy was inspected on the ground pilot should was collapsed.

[Cacophony 0]

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sorry, didn't see it in the first thread... Should read twice Tongue

Looks more or less like the kind of collapse we get with paragliders when pulling the 2 center A lines slightly. Did anything get caught in the lines ??

Wow. You should really read the whole thread before posting.......

[GravityGirl 0]

Have the rigger get the specs for the line set.

My first thought was that it is hooked up wrong. Front lines going to the rear risers. If that is not the case, then it might have the wrong line set on it.

My opnion is worth only what you paid for it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[GravityGirl 0]

p.s.

Did he ever unstow the brakes?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[Pasha 0]

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Have the rigger get the specs for the line set.

My first thought was that it is hooked up wrong. Front lines going to the rear risers. If that is not the case, then it might have the wrong line set on it.

My opnion is worth only what you paid for it.

They have inflated the canopy on the ground after cutaway and it was totally stable. I think we'll get line trim from the manufacturer and check it. Also I'm going to e-mail a video of the whole flight to manufacturer and post their answer here.

An yes, he did unstow toggles and pumped them without success. Soon after this the canopy started turning on itself and he had to compensate with one hand while reaching for cutaway handle with the other.

Thanks everybody for replys. It is kind of scary to jump a canopy when it malfunctioned without any particular reason. I hope it was some kind of a packing error.

[Fab 0]

euh...if the pilotchute didn't collapse after opening...couldn't this have caused it? Sounds like the most plausible cause to me..In the second picture you can see the PC fully inflated below the canopy. Maybe he was stalling his canopy so the PC went over and under the chute in the second picture?

Can a PC produce enough drag to do this on such a small canopy?

_______________________________________

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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The center A's are under full tension, but the B's are not loaded at all. Its almost like something has them under more tension then the outer lines have on them. No clue on how that could cause this though.

I wonder if this canopy was installed on risers/connector links improperly. It is entirely possible that the center A/B lines are attached to the rear risers thus causing the deformation. I have never personally seen one misrigged in that manner, but I have seen a VX-74 misrigged with the left-of-center lines connected to the right risers. The guy, former 8-way world champion Joe Trinko, landed the main and "just couldn't figure it out."

[billvon 2,400]

>Can a PC produce enough drag to do this on such a small canopy?

That's rare. I watched someone take a Stiletto 107 off the NRGB with a 42" (uncollapsible) pilot chute, and the canopy looked terrible but was controllable and landed him safely (in the river.)

[diablopilot 2]

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It opened very hard with central cells mostly closed, neither riser nor toggle inputs improved the situation. Actually front riser input resulted in picture No. 2.

Front risers were the wrong answer to this problem. With the center of the canopy not inflated, front risers would have only cause the wing tips to accelerat in towards the middle of the canopy thus making the problem worse. Rear risers probably would have allowed the center section to pop open as they slowed the wing tips. Also from the pictures it looks like no attempt was made to unstow the toggles.

My advice for jump to would be double check the rigging (might look a little funny, can't tell for sure from the pictures), pack according to the manufacturers instructions (probably not suposed to roll or stuff the nose) make sure the slider is all the way against the stops, and see how it does. I'd feel comfortable going up and test jumping it a couple more times before giving up, but then I'm a nut-job. Remeber, a full control check is a good idea.

What is it? A Katana? (A guess from the pictures)

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