There is a cost for everything.

[sunshine 2]

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If anyone out there sees me at a DZ and needs help packing or a main hooked up let me know I'd be more then happy to show you.

If you made your income as a rigger/packer, i doubt you'd feel that way. I bust my ass every weekend to make enough money to pay for college. I'm not about to take time away from my job of packing to put slinks on for free, or hook up a main for free. It's a lot different when you're there as a funjumper and you can take time away to help people out.

Edited to add: I do often trade services with other people. I have one guy i pack for at no charge cause he fixed my computer for me. Vallerina helped me out a few months ago, so i'm giving her free pack jobs too. And last year when a friend drove me somewhere, instead of giving her gas money, i gave her a day of free packjobs.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[diablopilot 2]

I like your attitude towards the sport.
I love spending time with jumpers, and teaching them. And I don't have to be paid for it.

The other week I helped a jumper re-assemble their canopy and risers after it returned from reline, they had never used soft links before. I did it because I had free time, and they has an interest in learning more about their gear, pluse they had spent time just hanging out with the comunity at the DZ.

On the other hand I've refused to pack for a jumper who has previously wandered off in the middle of a packing lesson to chat/flirt with other jumpers. The type who shows up to the DZ unpacked, whines about how they can't get on any loads because no one will pack for them, and never hangs out around the bonfire.

It's all about attitude and making connections.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[billvon 2,400]

>The people that want money are full of shit, and are just trying to
>take advantage of a struggling person who wants to learn. And there is no
>difference between them and some CEO fucking over the good ol'
>employee.

Do you know of any CEO, anywhere, who instructs his company to give away all their products for free? Is PD fucking you over by not giving you canopies for free?

If you want someone to take video of you, provide 15 minutes of debriefing. and give you a copy at the end, expect to pay for it - because they're providing you a service. If you want to just jump with someone, then show up and ask around. 9 times out of 10 you will find someone. They may only have 200 jumps, or they may want to freefly when you want to fly on your belly. But generally you'll find them.

[beowulf 1]

I try to make it a point to jump with the new jumpers who are interested in Freeflying and video and do some coaching for free just to get them started. I do this not just to be helpful and to make friends of them but also to help myself by increasing the number of freefliers we have at our dropzone. That way there is a larger pool of potential great freefliers for me to jump with. I don't mind if they exceed my abilities as long as they are still willing to jump with me.


btw I also like to wow the AFF students by showing them video of freeflying. Most of them have never seen anyone head down or sitflying. I look for the ones who's eyes get as big saucers and do my best to encourge them to finish AFF and RW training so they can start learning to Freefly. I know I know shamefully introducing them to the DARK SIDE.

[diablopilot 2]

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The people that want money are full of shit, and are just trying to take advantage of a struggling person who wants to learn. And there is no difference between them and some CEO fucking over the good ol' employee. But the guy who comes up to you and offers his help because he has noticed you are struggling, and expects nothing in return is going to be the true friend. And trust me that will be the one who has the most reward out of all of this.

Remember that even those that skydive for a living, skydive because it's fun too. Most instructors I know love to teach, and there fore it's fun, but when it becomes "work" because students don't want to pay attention, or just want it done for them, then they can expect to be charged for things.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[JohanW 0]

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I'm pretty much free. ;)

Which means you're probably quite expensive. In something, anything, other than money.

This doesn't need to be a bad thing at all, of course.

Johan.
I am. I think.

[Thanatos340 1]

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people would just be lining up to jump with me. That is not the case.

Suggestions:
1) Invest in a case of Beer and hang out after Jumping hours. As you hand someone a beer mention you have been having trouble finding people to jump with.

2) Ask Manifest if there any Load organizers at your DZ or Tell Manifest you are looking for someone to jump with.

Still have trouble finding people to jump with?? Find a different DZ and repeat the first two steps.

[rehmwa 2]

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I know I know shamefully introducing them to the DARK SIDE.

Yeah, CrW is a lot of fun.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[beowulf 1]

yeah well we don't have very people interested in even trying CRW here. Wish we did I would like to do more CRW jumps.

[rehmwa 2]

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yeah well we don't have very people interested in even trying CRW here. Wish we did I would like to do more CRW jumps.

We've just reintroduced it this year. It's been a very good time. I think four newbies have now had their downplanes and 4 stacks...

(It's good to see someone that likes to mix it up between all the disciplines).

And freefly isn't 'dark'. It's bright and shiny.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[monkycndo 0]

Quote

Suggestions:
1) Invest in a case of Beer and hang out after Jumping hours. As you hand someone a beer mention you have been having trouble finding people to jump with.

2) Ask Manifest if there any Load organizers at your DZ or Tell Manifest you are looking for someone to jump with.

Still have trouble finding people to jump with?? Find a different DZ and repeat the first two steps.

Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner. The best advice I was given as a new skydiver was from Cliff(Apoil). Hang around the DZ and find out who the good coaches are. Once the beer light is on, walk up to him/her, open a cold bottle of beer, put it in their hand. Ask your question. You will have their attention until the bottle is empty. Works great.

I don't expect someone who makes a living in skydiving to give me something for free. I expect my boss to pay me, I do the same for professional skydivers/vidiots. Often it's just to cover their slot and pack job. I often help out a new skydiver with free coaching, packing tips, gear assembly, etc. That's the way that my coaches helped me. I plan on doing video. Until I produce a product that is marketable, I'll share it with friends. Once it is good enough to market, I'll charge the going rate. I don't want to undercut the working vidiots who have helped me with advice (that only cost me a couple beers).

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[laughn_gas 0]

Quote

Do you know of any CEO, anywhere, who instructs his company to give away all their products for free? Is PD fucking you over by not giving you canopies for free?

If you want someone to take video of you, provide 15 minutes of debriefing. and give you a copy at the end, expect to pay for it - because they're providing you a service. If you want to just jump with someone, then show up and ask around. 9 times out of 10 you will find someone. They may only have 200 jumps, or they may want to freefly when you want to fly on your belly. But generally you'll find them.

I happily paid for the service of instruction in skydiving. I'm excited about owning my first rig. I agree that those who do this as their profession, should be compensated for their time. This is what they do to make money.

My point is more geared toward the fun jumper. If I were to see someone always going up on a load by themselves, I would ask if they would like to jump. Someone that is having trouble packing. offer a helping hand. If they were not that interested?.....Or not paying any attention to what I had to say?..... I can take a hint. They don't want my help. Their loss not mine. I don't want anything from them. If that were my job?...... Then it's a different story. But if someone offered you a coach jump and when you got down, He TOLD you that you were paying for his pack job, how would that make you feel? Before you reply to that, remember that he TOLD you that you were going to pay for it after the fact. Don't get me wrong, I'm greatful that he gave me a coach jump. The six measly dollars has nothing to do with it. It's the way it was said knowing that I'm the new kid on the block. At least thats the way I feel about it.

I hope I didn't offend anyone, because that is not my intention. I'm just giving my $.02 on the thread.

See ya in a minute. Peace out!

[lippy 773]

It's all about paying it forward right? A lot of people helped me 'for free' and for that I like helping newbies with packing or whatever I can in order to give the same favor that somebody gave me in order to get to where I'm at today.

But then again, I've never demanded help or got pissed off if somebody said they were too busy to put their livelyhood on hold and run over to hook me up.

I got nuthin

[billvon 2,400]

>But if someone offered you a coach jump and when you got down,
>He TOLD you that you were paying for his pack job, how would that make
>you feel? Before you reply to that, remember that he TOLD you that you
>were going to pay for it after the fact.

Sounds like there's a specific incident there that annoyed you, mainly because of the misunderstanding.

On a more general level, if someone offered me a coach jump to work on stuff specific to my needs, then I'd expect to pay. They are doing what I ask them, and thus I am the one who pays for the jump. It would certainly be nice if they said "don't worry about it" or "just cover my slot" but I wouldn't assume that.

And yes, that has indeed happened to me. I paid for their slot afterwards. No big deal; it didn't make me feel like I was a bad skydiver or a newbie or anything.

If someone said "hey, want to do a 4-way?" then I'd expect them to cover their slot, because the plan is for everyone to have fun, not to tailor a jump to my needs.

[davelepka 4]

Quote

My point is more geared toward the fun jumper. If I were to see someone always going up on a load by themselves, I would ask if they would like to jump. Someone that is having trouble packing. offer a helping hand.

Your examples all involve you offering to do something. This thread is about those who ask for something, and expect it for nothing.

Often times working skydivers give far more back to the sport than fun jumpers. Do you always see it? Not likey, if yu are a weekend fun jumper, you're there during the busy days, where the staff is busy with a full workload. Try spending 7 days a week at the DZ. See how many staff members will jump in to help fill a load, and end up organizing whoever is around.

Maybe during a time when they're not trying to make back-to-back loads, then they offer to help quickly finish off a pack job to get the plane flying again.

Or on a quiet Tuesday afternoon, they will take the time to let a newbie sit in on a reserve pack job so they can see what goes on in there.

These are all things that most jumpers don't get to see just due to scheduling. If you're only around on the weekends, all you see is the staff pre-occupied with their own business (it's called making rent, or putting food on the table).

Keep in mind that each of the professional skydivers started out the same way you did. They took it far enough, dedicated themselves to it enough, and had enough help from others to make it a lifestyle.

Also keep in mind that you NEED these people. Who are you going to see when you need rigging done? Who takes your buddy on a tandem once you talk him into showing up at the DZ? Who takes the video and stills of your buddy? What happens when you need advice on how to freefly/swoop/fly a wingsuit? This is where you need a guy who has done nothing but jump for 10 years. amd can set you straight, and save you time, money, and possible injury.

If everyone before you didn't come through with cold hard cash, that guy wouldn't exist. He'd have 500 jumps instead of 5000. He'd have a few ideas about how to freefly or swoop, but he wouldn;t have th expertise to properly guide you.

So pay up. Ask a professional for professional level service, and bring your checkbook. Thats how it works. We're all still friends, but a guy has to pay the bills. You pay the DZO for his services, pay the others staff members for theirs.

[laughn_gas 0]

Quote

Quote

My point is more geared toward the fun jumper. If I were to see someone always going up on a load by themselves, I would ask if they would like to jump. Someone that is having trouble packing. offer a helping hand.

Your examples all involve you offering to do something. This thread is about those who ask for something, and expect it for nothing.

Often times working skydivers give far more back to the sport than fun jumpers. Do you always see it? Not likey, if yu are a weekend fun jumper, you're there during the busy days, where the staff is busy with a full workload. Try spending 7 days a week at the DZ. See how many staff members will jump in to help fill a load, and end up organizing whoever is around.

Maybe during a time when they're not trying to make back-to-back loads, then they offer to help quickly finish off a pack job to get the plane flying again.

Or on a quiet Tuesday afternoon, they will take the time to let a newbie sit in on a reserve pack job so they can see what goes on in there.

These are all things that most jumpers don't get to see just due to scheduling. If you're only around on the weekends, all you see is the staff pre-occupied with their own business (it's called making rent, or putting food on the table).

Keep in mind that each of the professional skydivers started out the same way you did. They took it far enough, dedicated themselves to it enough, and had enough help from others to make it a lifestyle.

Also keep in mind that you NEED these people. Who are you going to see when you need rigging done? Who takes your buddy on a tandem once you talk him into showing up at the DZ? Who takes the video and stills of your buddy? What happens when you need advice on how to freefly/swoop/fly a wingsuit? This is where you need a guy who has done nothing but jump for 10 years. amd can set you straight, and save you time, money, and possible injury.

If everyone before you didn't come through with cold hard cash, that guy wouldn't exist. He'd have 500 jumps instead of 5000. He'd have a few ideas about how to freefly or swoop, but he wouldn;t have th expertise to properly guide you.

So pay up. Ask a professional for professional level service, and bring your checkbook. Thats how it works. We're all still friends, but a guy has to pay the bills. You pay the DZO for his services, pay the others staff members for theirs.

I guess I'm in a bit of misunderstanding. The staff at my DZ is OUTSTANDING!!!!!! They are the ones that make me feel as if I belong. But getting to know the fun jumppers has been a bit of a challenge. I go out to the DZ in the middle of the week and on the weekends. And it seems like I enjoy the middle of the week better, even though the loads don't go up as often. Like I said in an earlier post, I'm a bit shy. Who's fault is that?.... I know it's mine.
I would not hesitate to pay for any instruction from the staff at the DZ.( video, coach, rigger, packer ) I know that's how they earn their living. They are very professional and I respect them very much. I have a hard time doing the same with a fun jumper. We are there to help each other out. ( thats my opinion. )

One last thing....... I'm going to shut my pie hole this matter now and move on I've dug a hole here and have got to find a way out.

Blue Ones

See ya in a minute. Peace out!

[diablopilot 2]

No hole dug, and you're not the first shy skydiver.
I was a pretty shy person before skydiving, but one learns to hang out and socialize and then the real fun of jumping begins. I think those that have suggested the handing out around the bonfire with a case of beer is on the right track. When the staff and locals go out for dinner at the end of the day ask if you're welcome, and don't take no as a bad thing, maybe next time......

BTW, welcome to this great sport and community.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[monkycndo 0]

*tries to imagine JP as shy*

Oh for the good old days.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

*tries to imagine JP as shy*

Oh for the good old days.

No shit. Me too.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[kallend 1,625]

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I was a pretty shy person before skydiving.

OK, JP, you owe me a keyboard.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[bob.dino 0]

Beer is always a good ice-breaker. Besides, it's much easier to approach and chat to random strangers if you're drunk slightly tipsy .

Welcome to the sport!

[Icon134 0]

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When the staff and locals go out for dinner at the end of the day ask if you're welcome, and don't take no as a bad thing, maybe next time......

OK, I'm having a hard time with this one... why shouldn't new local fun jumper be welcome to join the rest of the fun jumpers for a "group" dinner?

I know that when the fun jumpers/staff go out to dinner at my local dz's everyone is welcome... its a great oportunity to hang out, meet local helicopter pilots and get a free helo jump... I mean get to know everyone else...

fwiw... I also was/am a shy jumper (still am though it doesn't show nearly as much) when I was a newly A licensed skydiver I had the damnest time trying to find people to jump with...

I did some things to remedy this as an up jumper...

I participated dz organized activities: The local Skyleague would occasionally have free coaching weekends for 2-way/4-way, etc. I "joined" a 4-way team that was primarily interested in learning but still having fun... I explored other dropzones... ultimately I ended up finding some dropzones were more tailored to my personality and I was able to get more jumps there (I really wish skydive monroe was still open)

I always invite newer jumpers on skydives... (I keep them relatively simple jumps until I have determined their skill level.)

I also regularly shoot outside RW video and I am happy to provide access to my helmet for review of footage (I'm generally interested in critiquing myself as well as others) but if someone (other then they videographer that mentored me he gets to have any footage he wants) wants footage I don't hesitate to ask for some money (and I'm not generally offended when they choose not to "buy" my footage...

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[diablopilot 2]

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OK, I'm having a hard time with this one... why shouldn't new local fun jumper be welcome to join the rest of the fun jumpers for a "group" dinner?

Absolutly no reason why not.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[billvon 2,400]

>why shouldn't new local fun jumper be welcome to join the rest of the
>fun jumpers for a "group" dinner?

Same reason one person might not get invited out by any group of people. Maybe he tells offensive jokes, picks at his ear and eats it. Maybe it's a group of women, the guy has been drinking, and he's known to be something of a problem when he's drunk. This isn't an issue of inexperience in skydiving, it's an issue with people in general.

Generally whenever we go out everyone's welcome. Once it gets to be 8 or so people, though, I don't seek out anyone else, because it's harder to fit 8 people in many places - although they're welcome to come along and make up a second group.

[Kiki32 1]

I dont complain about the costs of skydiving. but I do kinda get a little bummed out when I get the feeling that dzs are trying to squeeze more money than normal out of me.

Instead of taking an 80 dollar packing class, a friend offered to teach me as long as I got him dinner. Then I offered another friend to pack his rig for free for a day just so I could get more practice in. What sucks is when the dz tries to interfere with this bartering, hassling me to do it their way even though I feel that paying them 80 bucks isnt the only way to learn.

Poetry don't work on whores.