Does being a pilot give you any kind of edge?

[A1CSpooky 0]

I ask because I'm looking to go into AFF in the spring. I'm a 26yr old ATP ... yadda yadda yadda. I was just wondering for those in the know if having any knowledge of aerodynamics and wing loading helps. Or is it more just like learning to land kind of a "feel" type thing.

Second part

When coming in on approach for landing do you try to look for the same type of optical perspective that you might get from a small prop job? Could you relate flaring a small plane to flaring a parafoil?

Also (sorry) For a beginner looking to start in the spring (who lives in the midwest *No wind tunnels*), what can I do to prepare. I don't care if it means buying video's or treking to the carolinas to get some tunnel time or whatever, but I just really would like my first few jumps to feel effective, like i've prepped addequately for them.

Thanks

Spooky

[bodypilot1 0]

No, not really. You probably relate to landing patterns and wind conditions better, but thats all.

Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[pilotdave 0]

Definitely helps for canopy flight.... mainly in the big picture type stuff like planning a traffic pattern. The perspective on landing is very different because wind has so much more of an effect on a canopy than on a plane. A 15-knot headwind on landing in a plane will just lower your ground speed a little, but you'll approach at the same angle as you would in no wind. On the other hand, a canopy might be coming straight down into a 15-knot wind.

But other things transfer over on landing, like looking at the far end of the runway to judge your height down low and not the near end... But when it comes to freefall, forget it. Whole different ballgame.

Dave

[AggieDave 6]

It does NOT mean that you can skip steps with canopy flight, though! I've seen more then one pilot flat out make that mistake. One of which would be dead if it hadn't of rained the previous week before he hooked in.

Moral of the story is that it'll help you with concepts but in practice it still takes practice.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Andrewwhyte 1]

You can not add power.

[quade 3]

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You can not add power.

Uh, yeah . . . because I'm absolutely sure no ATP has ever had perform a dead stick landing during any practical test he's ever taken.

Spooky, quite a bit of the aerodynamics translate directly to canopy flight. There are a couple of things that might not make perfect sense at first because of the suspended weight, but you'll sort that out.

You'll also be more likely aware about paying attention to altitudes than the average newbie since you've undoubtedly flown hundred of IFR approaches and understand the advantages of keeping an eye on it so you can do the right things at the right times.

A couple of things that threw me -quite- a bit when transitioning from airplanes to parachutes was the proximity of the bar to the activity and the over all "anti-authority" attitude of the participants. Try not to let it get ya crazy.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ebusto 0]

I'm currently doing the opposite, that is, I'm learning to fly, but was a skydiver first.

Go arounds are something that are not natural to me. A few times, my landing has been ugly enough that the only option is a go around, but I'm still thinking like a skydiver and assuming this is the only chance at landing I have. My instructor has had to step in and force the go around, as I continue to try and save the landing.

On the plus side, I suspect being a skydiver first gave me a head start on patterns, using clues to determine the wind direction, and perhaps a few other things I'm not cognizant of.

[kallend 1,623]

I thought it helped a LOT. But I had a glider rating too.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[peek 20]

Does being a pilot give you any kind of edge?

I think yes, but perhaps not for your first few jumps, and not so much for the freefall part.

For the freefall part you might be able to more easily recognize when you are tense and correct it, however, you don't have much time in freefall to recognize this.

On later jumps where you are learning things like spotting (where to get out), how to act in a jump aircraft, etc., you will have a big advantage if your instructors know you and acknowledge your skill and knowledge as a pilot. Unfortunately some won't.

I have had some pilots I've trained spotting very early on and doing a good job, but if I had waited until the training manual suggested they learn, they would not have advanced as quickly in this area.

There is an old saying that I don't hear much any more, but is quite true. "On every jump there are 3 areas of learning: 1. In the plane, 2. In freefall, 3, Under canopy. You can learn something in each area every jump, and if you don't do so well in one area, you have still learned in the other areas."

Try to relate this to learning to fly an airplane and it will help.

[deadbug 0]

As an airline pilot and skydiver, I would say that canopy flight, landing patterns, flairing and canopy accuracy will most likely come easier for you. Understanding your gear, learning to pack, overcoming your fear and anxiety of jumping, freefall and learning the proper response to various "emergencies will be just like any new jumper. As far as preparing for the first jump, I don't think there is much you can do short of tunnel time "which you already said your not interested in". Go through the program and listen to your instructors. If you obsess to much you might do more harm than good.

Have fun,
Doug Anderson

[jakee 1,255]

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I thought it helped a LOT. But I had a glider rating too.

I thought it helped me too. But then, I've never learned to skydive without having been a glider pilot first so I can't really compare it

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[tombuch 0]

I think it is super helpful. You will already be familiar with so many things including the operation of the aircraft, that tend to overload non-pilots. The canopy part will make lots of sense given your understanding of aerodynamics. The landing part is very much like landing a light airplane, but of course there are differences.

Make sure your instructor knows you are a pilot so he can help you latch new information to old information.

The response from Quade is very solid. You may find a "lack of professionalism" in the GA world of skydiving that might trouble you, unless of course you have prior experience with ulta small GA operations.

Several other posters suggested that glider training helps. I find that's true, but I thought my power training helped more than the glider experience.

You can pick up a couple of books that will help you prepare, if you are a tech person who wants the book knowledge. The first book I'd recommend is my own, "JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy" published by McGraw-Hill in 2003. It is still selling from some outlets, but you might need to get a used copy. Another terrific book is "The Skydivers Handbook" by Poynter and Turoff. It's an outstanding resource. If you haven't already done so, check out the United States Parachute Association web site at http://www.uspa.org/news/index.htm.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[ladydyver 0]

You can pick up a couple of books that will help you prepare, if you are a tech person who wants the book knowledge. The first book I'd recommend is my own, "JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy" published by McGraw-Hill in 2003. It is still selling from some outlets, but you might need to get a used copy. Another terrific book is "The Skydivers Handbook" by Poynter and Turoff. It's an outstanding resource. If you haven't already done so, check out the United States Parachute Association web site at http://www.uspa.org/news/index.htm.
__________________________________________________

As for prepping for this spring: another book to consider is "The parachute and its Pilot." Also there are alot of articles here that can be helpful about no wind landings, buying gear ect. If you can get to a tunnel it is helpful....I did 10 minutes of tunnel time prior to learning to jump and found it very helpful with completing the tasks that are required for AFF and obtaining the A license, but that is variable for everyone. Listen, watch and learn.

DPH # 2
"I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~
I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc!

[A1CSpooky 0]

Wow! Sorry, I just got back from flying DC-10 sim and I saw all these responses. Thank you all very much for all of your help. I will definitely pick up all of those books that were recommended.

With this being my first post I would really like to thank you all for making me feel welcomed and just the acceptance that I've seen. I hope the rest of this sport is like this forum.

Spooky

[sparkie 0]

I think it does help. Ive been a gliderpilot for a very long time before i went to skydiving.

Landing patterns, landing into the wind, understanding lift/drag etc is all natural from the get go.

I've always felt that once under canopy it was just like flying a really bad performance glider.

I tried to thermal once.. that didnt work under a canopy , im still bummed by that

[moto89 0]

I'd say it is, only with a lot more beer and shenanigans.



I came from a flying background as well before skydiving, and pretty much agree with what has been said already. It seems to me that patterns are tough for some to grasp but coming from a pilots background it should be pretty straight forward. You'll have a better understanding of the flare and what's going on landing as well.

Less talking, more flying.

[airtwardo 6]

Wow! Sorry, I just got back from flying DC-10 sim and I saw all these responses.

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If it ain't Boeing....I ain't Going!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[A1CSpooky 0]

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Wow! Sorry, I just got back from flying DC-10 sim and I saw all these responses.

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If it ain't Boeing....I ain't Going!

Completely Agree!

[squirrel 0]

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I'm currently doing the opposite, that is, I'm learning to fly, but was a skydiver first.

Go arounds are something that are not natural to me. A few times, my landing has been ugly enough that the only option is a go around, but I'm still thinking like a skydiver and assuming this is the only chance at landing I have. My instructor has had to step in and force the go around, as I continue to try and save the landing.

On the plus side, I suspect being a skydiver first gave me a head start on patterns, using clues to determine the wind direction, and perhaps a few other things I'm not cognizant of.

i too learned to fly after skydiving...the go arounds were a sweet option to have, personally, never had any problem deciding to go around.

what my flght instructor liked that i brought from skydiving was the ability to make decision and act on them. i feel this goes both ways, use your pilot observation, decision, and action skills to aid you in skydiving.

________________________________
Where is Darwin when you need him?

[cocheese 0]

I believe that most aviation is good cross training for other aviation.

Being a pilot will improve your skydiving. Being a skydiver will improve your flying in a plane. Even flying r/c planes can help one learn a lot about wind, lift, thrust, drag, and beer.

[pchapman 261]

I agree with a lot of the responses about already having some background knowledge about flying the pattern, winds & weather, airspace, and aircraft & aircraft operations.

There's also the "making a decision" concept that was brought up by Squirrel: You'll already have that aviation mindset of having to evaluate and react to stressful & dangerous situations. And to anticipate such situations, looking for combinations of factors that may lead to them.

It's not that pilots and skydivers are special in facing dangers -- one can be killed mundanely driving a car -- but in aviation the whole decision making and human factors concept is more explicitly covered.

There can also be negative aspects to already being accomplished in aviation, as it can be for those with skills in some 'extreme' sport -- for those who let it go to their head. Skills in one field aren't always the ones needed in another. The person may have a talent for learning quickly, but they have to use it and recognize what they don't know.

In skydiving there are plenty of debates about the degree to which 'good awareness' transfers over from another field to skydiving. Generally being heads up and aware may not help keep one out of trouble when there are subtle skills & knowledge that are lacking.

(Classic aviation examples that A1CSpooky will recognize: The respected airline captain who groundloops a taildragger he hasn't touched in 20 years, or the successful businessman who learns to fly and soon kills himself in the Mooney he bought.)

Just being more comfortable in the sky in general should help. For me, it didn't hurt that I didn't just fly straight & level in a C-150, but had done some gliding and aerobatics too. I can't say that my first couple skydives weren't still stressful and a little scary. But I was able to avoid the problem that some students have with freefall stability & control, from being too stiff and nervous.

[A1CSpooky 0]

Quote

I agree with a lot of the responses about already having some background knowledge about flying the pattern, winds & weather, airspace, and aircraft & aircraft operations.

There's also the "making a decision" concept that was brought up by Squirrel: You'll already have that aviation mindset of having to evaluate and react to stressful & dangerous situations. And to anticipate such situations, looking for combinations of factors that may lead to them.

It's not that pilots and skydivers are special in facing dangers -- one can be killed mundanely driving a car -- but in aviation the whole decision making and human factors concept is more explicitly covered.

There can also be negative aspects to already being accomplished in aviation, as it can be for those with skills in some 'extreme' sport -- for those who let it go to their head. Skills in one field aren't always the ones needed in another. The person may have a talent for learning quickly, but they have to use it and recognize what they don't know.

In skydiving there are plenty of debates about the degree to which 'good awareness' transfers over from another field to skydiving. Generally being heads up and aware may not help keep one out of trouble when there are subtle skills & knowledge that are lacking.

(Classic aviation examples that A1CSpooky will recognize: The respected airline captain who groundloops a taildragger he hasn't touched in 20 years, or the successful businessman who learns to fly and soon kills himself in the Mooney he bought.)

Just being more comfortable in the sky in general should help. For me, it didn't hurt that I didn't just fly straight & level in a C-150, but had done some gliding and aerobatics too. I can't say that my first couple skydives weren't still stressful and a little scary. But I was able to avoid the problem that some students have with freefall stability & control, from being too stiff and nervous.

Ah... Mooney's ... The doctor killers...lol

[jee 0]

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Ah... Mooney's ... The doctor killers...lol

I say being a pilot goes a long way towards piloting a canopy. And just being used to being "up there" is a tremendous head start. But don't let it get to your head. There is nothing worse than a newbie or any skydiver at the dropzone bragging about his type in a 73 or arguing about some aerodynamic fact that he knows because he's a pilot. You will find there are all different walks in skydiving but mostly you'll find they are different from what you are used to as an airline pilot. Animosity is abundant.
Good luck in your new endeavor! I think you'll find it to be a blast. I know I did.

BTW..where I come from a doctor killer is a V-tail Bonanza.

[lippy 771]

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With this being my first post

That's somethin your flying skills won't help with...Don't ever say 'my first'
Best of luck getting into the sport, you're gonna have a blast!

I got nuthin

[A1CSpooky 0]

Quote

Quote

Ah... Mooney's ... The doctor killers...lol

I say being a pilot goes a long way towards piloting a canopy. And just being used to being "up there" is a tremendous head start. But don't let it get to your head. There is nothing worse than a newbie or any skydiver at the dropzone bragging about his type in a 73 or arguing about some aerodynamic fact that he knows because he's a pilot. You will find there are all different walks in skydiving but mostly you'll find they are different from what you are used to as an airline pilot. Animosity is abundant.
Good luck in your new endeavor! I think you'll find it to be a blast. I know I did.

BTW..where I come from a doctor killer is a V-tail Bonanza.

Those too!