Developing your eyes for altitude

[apixel 0]

( As always, I will also bring this up with my instructors )
This subject comes up often and it seems completely logical, just doesn't seem so easy to learn.
I have already started with this, by dedicating jumps to comparing the ground with the alti at different altitudes, but I am curios as to how you have developed your eye/altitude awareness. I would like to know what are the cues that most of you use. With my low jump numbers, I'm still in the process of becoming more and more aware of my surroundings. Finally, as of 4 jumps ago, I can clearly see when other people are deploying. This is one of my first clues that the time is getting close. Unfortunately, I've also discovered that some people say they will open at 4k and consistently open at 6! And obviously, I won't always have people below me. My hope is to gather enough examples, that I can then use to try and find what works for me. ( To me, the ground already looks awfully detailed at 7k )

[AggieDave 6]

I've heard people say looking out the window in the plane and looking at an altimeter helped them.

Personally, I did nothing special and it simply developed with experience, my view of getting low started to come into play around 50 jumps or so. Also you'll develop an altitude "clock" in relation to how long you *should* be in freefall. My internal altitude "clock" which has been on US-cessna-standard time long enough that when I jump a turbine my altitude "clock" starts going of at 5k.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Jimbo 0]

I remember the first time I did a jump from 22K - I spent the lower half of the skydive telling myself that everything is OK. The internal clock is something we all have, but damn, it can be an annoyance at times!

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[sunshine 2]

It just kinda happened after a while. My brain got used to what the ground looked like from certain altitudes.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[happythoughts 0]

When I did more 4-way, I was review all the videos. We always broke off at 4K. If you review a lot of tape, you will notice the change in objects in the background. On video, the trees start to look distinct at 4K, like separate trees, not green blots.

I got to where I could watch video see that breakoff was coming up by seeing the change in the background.

Also, on the ride up, I look for any clouds. I then check my altimeter to see what is the height of their base.

Like others said, eventually, you get an "internal clock". I would definitely not rely on it though. Sometimes, you are just having too much fun and it overrides the internal clock. This is the cause of a lot of Cypres fires by experienced jumpers.

My preferred method is this: Generally, I am looking at other jumpers on a dive. I just re-focus past them and look at the ground. Do this a few times during the jump and look at your altimeter. This will help you build a mental library of images of the ground at different altitudes. It is a handy habit that provides good altitude awareness.

I have an audible, but I try not to rely on it. The audible is a backup for my brain (first) and my wristmount (second). If someone is unaware of their altitude and their audible alerts them first, they should sit down and consider it.

[JohnRich 4]

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Also you'll develop an altitude "clock" in relation to how long you *should* be in freefall. My internal altitude "clock" which has been on US-cessna-standard time long enough that when I jump a turbine my altitude "clock" starts going of at 5k.

And the opposite of that can be dangerous. If you are accustomed to jumping from 13,000', and then exit from 10,000' some day, your clock will be expecting a 70 second freefall, when you actually should have only 50 seconds. Beware! When you exit at a lower altitude than usual, check your altimeter more frequently, because you'll be out of altitude sooner than you expect.

[falxori 0]

as some have already mentioned, its more of an internal clock than what the ground looks like at different altitudes.

its ok to use it (we all do) but you have to know how it works so you'll know when it presents an additional risk.
O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Shark 0]

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( As always, I will also bring this up with my instructors )

Yes, please do so!

[ryoder 1,398]

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I remember the first time I did a jump from 22K - I spent the lower half of the skydive telling myself that everything is OK. The internal clock is something we all have, but damn, it can be an annoyance at times!

-
Jim

Another clue, (which I discovered quite by accident), is how long the runway looks. I once switched DZ's and the new DZ had a MUCH longer runway. Every time I reached the altitude (~7000) where the longer runway looked like the old runway at 3000, something in my head started screaming for me to breakoff and pull. And I was jumping from the same altitude at both DZ's.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Peej 0]

I did the altimeter thing for a while and still do quite often. On the way up to altitude i used to look out of the window, take a guess at how high we were and then look at my Alti.

That seemed to help plus the internal clock thing just developed over time and now on a skydive i know when we're at about 6 grand.

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[freakydiver 0]

One of my early mentors taught me a game to learn this skill. Numerous times during the climb to alti - look out the window and attempt to guess yer alti. I learned to visually guesstimate alti very well by continuously doing this over my ten year jumping carrer...

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[EricaH 0]

Also if you switch between belly & ff the internal timer goes off.
I normally ff & on the rare belly jump I was always turning to track off round 6.5K. Now I've trained myself to not automatically track off, rather to check the ol alti.

There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear.

PMS #227 (just like the TV show)

[kelpdiver 2]

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It just kinda happened after a while. My brain got used to what the ground looked like from certain altitudes.

Do you think that's based on known objects below (which may be somewhat location specific), or a sense of how big the ground is looking compared the sky?

[sunshine 2]

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Do you think that's based on known objects below (which may be somewhat location specific), or a sense of how big the ground is looking compared the sky?

Since i jump at so many different DZs on a regular basis, it's definitely how big the ground looks. My first trip to Moss Point 2 years ago, my alti broke. I continued jumping with no alti and had to rely on my eyes to know thy altitude.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[AggieDave 6]

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Since i jump at so many different DZs on a regular basis, it's definitely how big the ground looks.

I've always felt like it was the horizon coming up in your pererfial (sp?) vision.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mjosparky 3]

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If you are accustomed to jumping from 13,000', and then exit from 10,000' some day, your clock will be expecting a 70 second freefall,

You get 70 seconds of freefall from 13,000? How low do you pull?

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Shark 0]

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If you are accustomed to jumping from 13,000', and then exit from 10,000' some day, your clock will be expecting a 70 second freefall,

You get 70 seconds of freefall from 13,000? How low do you pull?

Sparky

The sky is larger in TX.

[mjosparky 3]

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If you are accustomed to jumping from 13,000', and then exit from 10,000' some day, your clock will be expecting a 70 second freefall,

You get 70 seconds of freefall from 13,000? How low do you pull?

Sparky

The sky is larger in TX.

Sorry, I forgot.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[phoenixlpr 0]

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I continued jumping with no alti and had to rely on my eyes to know thy altitude.

I`m not sure if its safe or/and even legal.

[freakydiver 0]

I've not used an alti for about 3 years (400 + jumps). No one really ever said anything to me at 4 different DZs. My wife just bought me a Neptune for Christmas though so I'll be wearing an alit again...

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[AggieDave 6]

Its perfectly legal. The only piece of equipment required to make an intintial jump from an AC in the US is a 2 parachute, TSOed system.

Everything else is extra. Its against the BSRs if they're a student, but that paper tiger's bite is soft, unfortunately.


One of the funnest jumps I've ever made in my life was the first jump from a CASA about an hour after the GA ban was lifted after 9/11. I had my rig. That was it. No goggles, no helmet, no alti...atleast I had my clothes on. It was a 6-way lawn dart, 1 person had an altimeter the rest were like me.

After feeling like we were going to loose skydiving forever or for a long time after 9/11 that jump made us feel very good. (Thanks AOPA for getting us back in the air, we owe you one for that).

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[beezyshaw 0]

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I've always felt like it was the horizon coming up in your pererfial (sp?) vision.

Yes, glad Dave said this. When you learn to use the horizon line as a visual reference it is much easier and more reliable than objects on the ground. For one thing, the horizon is there to use without having to look at and analyze any particular thing on the ground. Also, visibility will trick you. A clear day will make you feel lower than a hazier day will. The horizon as your reference is the hot tip.

[op5e 0]

I would check your op regs to see what the rules are in your country.

In australia the rules are:

"5.1.8. An approved and functioning visual altimeter set to indicate height above the DZ shall be worn on all descents. The altimeter shall be securely mounted so that the wearer can observe it without difficulty throughout the descent. An ASO may authorise an exception to this regulation for specified descents where the delay does not exceed 10sec. Such authorisation must be made in writing."

I am still way off in being able to judge height either under canopy or in freefall. I will definately try to play the guessing height game next time I go up.

[skr 1]

>I would like to know what are the cues that most of you use

Some are universal like the size of cars or the way
the horizon looks.

Others are specific to each DZ, the size of the runway,
other features that you learn.

But even at the same dropzone there are variations,
bright sunlight, clear air, haze, clouds, sun setting.

Even I seem to be different on different days.

I find it much easier to see when I'm tracking than when
I'm falling straight down.


It takes a lot of effort to develop and if you're doing
busy type jumps like four way I'm not sure you can
take your eyes off what you're doing long enough
to get a reading anyway (which to me is a statement
about doing busy jumps, but that's a different discussion).

I think it's worth developing a certain degree of eye
for altitude.

Like the first distinction is to be able to look down
and know: am I safe, or not?

And the useful degree of this is being able to recognize
four regions: I'm way up there, I'm safe but near the
bottom end of the freefall, I'm low but just barely, and
I'm really low and I need to pull my reserve right now
right out of the middle of this four way.

I think all students should be taught to see those four
distinctions.

Skr

[MakeItHappen 15]

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( As always, I will also bring this up with my instructors )
This subject comes up often and it seems completely logical, just doesn't seem so easy to learn.
I have already started with this, by dedicating jumps to comparing the ground with the alti at different altitudes, but I am curios as to how you have developed your eye/altitude awareness. I would like to know what are the cues that most of you use. With my low jump numbers, I'm still in the process of becoming more and more aware of my surroundings. Finally, as of 4 jumps ago, I can clearly see when other people are deploying. This is one of my first clues that the time is getting close. Unfortunately, I've also discovered that some people say they will open at 4k and consistently open at 6! And obviously, I won't always have people below me. My hope is to gather enough examples, that I can then use to try and find what works for me. ( To me, the ground already looks awfully detailed at 7k )

Altitude Awareness

Internal clocks are only as good as the same exit altitude they are calibrated upon.

After doing a number of jumps from 23K, my internal clock was WAAAAAY off on jumps from 12.5K.

I use the horizon and temperature inversions (significant in S. Cal and AZ) more than straight down to back up my altimeter.
Visibility does play a role here. Use more than one method to determine altitude.

I went back to the original Dytter with one tone at one altitude because my TimeOut 'scared me' by beeping at 2500 feet. I thought something was wrong.
My Dytter is set at 1800 feet.

You might also want to consider that most 'loss of altitude awareness' happens after you pull or try to pull your main or under a fully functioning main.
People try to fix a malfunction too long.
People do turns too close to the ground.

There are the occaisional loss of altitude awareness in freefall, but they are the minority nowadays.

see also Wake up Call
Survival Tip

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