bigbearfng 9 #1 January 3, 2009 It's easy for accusations to fly about instructors/jumpers whether it is in regards to selling a HP canopy to a newbie, getting a jumper into wingsuiting for the first time, or any number of similars. However if you are told by someone that their experience level and jump numbers are such and such-do you usually take them at their word? Verify their word? And how much would you do to verify their word? (And no I'm not saying that this was the situation in FL. Even though it may very well have been the case, there is not enough info to say that right now and may not have been that way.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spindlee 0 #2 January 3, 2009 I think it's a good idea to get a reference from their CCI at whichever DZ they jump at. A HP canopy in inexperienced hands is deadly to the pilot and the other jumpers. but hey what do i know, I fly a spectre 150 lol!If in doubt, whip it out... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #3 January 3, 2009 Yup. The last two canopies I sold I sold them to people I do not personally know. I verified credentials and the ability to jump the canopies by contacting persons who were S&TAs or instructors at their DZ. In both cases the persons buying the canopy and the persons I contacted were glad to have me do it.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohanW 0 #4 January 3, 2009 I take them at their word. Then I start judging their behaviour in the air. Most cases, I *already* know their behaviour in the air. But I have never sold a high performance canopy to an unknown jumper yet. Especially when mailing it out, I should hope I get a lot more careful with checking their background. It never ceases to amaze me when people do not consider a Spectre 150 a high performance canopy BTW. Johan. I am. I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spindlee 0 #5 January 3, 2009 i wsan't saying it was a hp canopy, it's just not that radical with my wingloading If in doubt, whip it out... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowwhite 0 #6 January 3, 2009 I have taken the time to verify a jumpers word when he didn't seem to have the experience he claimed at the registration desk of the WFFC. A couple of phone calls proved I had reason to worry, and kept him out of the air. And no, I don't think I was an asshole, I SMILED when I told him he couldn't stay. I am a very nice person.skydiveTaylorville.org [email protected] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #7 January 3, 2009 yes I have verified people experience. Calling the DZO is a good start. Otherwise there always seems to be someone at their DZ who I know :) No reason to sell people things that they are likely to hurt themselves with. And as far as I know nobody thought bad of me for refusing to sell to under qualified buyers. just my 2c Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #8 January 3, 2009 I know a lot of people who don't log that inflate, consciously or unconsciously, their jump numbers. I've never sold hi-performance canopies, but I've done enough load organizing to have been lied to a few times. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joellercoaster 6 #9 January 4, 2009 Interestingly, I was talking to a friend last night who'd been looking to buy (insert hot-dog canopy here). He was honest about his jump numbers, and provided references - one of whom got the call and said "Do not sell him that." So he didn't. I'm not sure why he's annoyed... that's what the references of more experienced people are for! The referee in question is known to be conservative over canopy issues more than the prevailing atmosphere at the club, but she's right.-- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #10 January 4, 2009 I call and ask for refrences. I have called fellow jumpers, rigger, and DZO."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #11 January 4, 2009 If I don't know the jumper, I ask for their logbook to check jump numbers as the first part of their WS FFC. I like to see what type of jumps they had done recently. If they have only done HnPs, they might want to do some tracking dives to get ready for a first wingsuit jump. If they bring me a brand new logbook with only one or two jumps logged and tell me they just filled their last book, I ask to see the old one. If they can't produce it, I'll wait until they can provide some sort of proof of their numbers/experience. I have relied on another jumper vouching for a student, but only because I trusted the other jumper.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #12 January 4, 2009 As far as I was told. You don't need to get logged jumps signed after you receive your D. This was told to me by a gentleman with 20000 jumps and 30 years in sport When selling a HP canopy I think its smart to verify jumps. I also think as skydivers we work on a honor system and if some idiot wants to lie that much on their experience then they should get hurt. Maybe they wont lie anymore and be more honest about their experience. People die in this sport. We are jumping out of plane. When it comes to students I verify what they have done so far with their log book and let them show me to see that they can do it without assistance.Never give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr_music11 0 #13 January 4, 2009 I can only HOPE that one is honost with their jump numbers. As inflating them can only increase the risk of that jumper.. (risk of injury, embarassment, loss of credibility etc) I am thankfull for the person ( instructor, DZO, fellow skydiviver ) that questions where their gear or words of wisdom are heading. As I have stated in other posts, the safer that we can make OUR sport, the better. blue skies.If flying is piloting a plane.. then swimming is driving a boat. I know why birds sing.. I skydive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,407 #14 January 5, 2009 >However if you are told by someone that their experience level and jump > numbers are such and such-do you usually take them at their word? >Verify their word? Depends. If I'm selling a Silhouette 170, I will likely sell it to anyone that passes a cursory test via email (i.e. "how many jumps do you have? what have you jumped so far? any problems?" etc.) If I'm selling a Crossfire 99, I'll do a much more thorough search. I actually once _did_ sell an XF99 on line, and I went through 7-8 prospective buyers until I found someone who could provide a reference. Ironically it was a jumper in Russia, and we had a common friend in Alaska who had seen him jump his previous canopy (also an XF99.) Most of the replies from people in the US were just not credible (i.e. "I have 100 jumps on a Safire 129 and 100 jumps on a Crossfire 109, but not too many people saw me make them.") Of course, a really good liar is going to be able to figure out a way around any system (forging logbooks is very easy) but I figure there's only so much you can do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deisel 37 #15 January 5, 2009 Do canopy manufacturers check out customer qualifications? Not trying to be a smart ass, I have no idea... The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #16 January 5, 2009 Quote Do canopy manufacturers check out customer qualifications? Not trying to be a smart ass, I have no idea... You dont even have to be a skydiver to order any skydiving related equipment on line.www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #17 January 5, 2009 dont you have to sign something if you order a velocity from PD!?“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #18 January 5, 2009 Yeap .. a cheque (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #19 January 5, 2009 smart arse! i thought i've overheard something along the lines from a couple of guys at the dz.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
