tbrown 26 #1 February 1, 2009 Tonight I got the second PM in two weeks from a newbie OP, thanking me for calling some dot.commie to task for brushing off their question with a BULLSHIT "do a search" reply. I've even seen one particularly obnoxious reply that stated "how tired" the exalted person was of seeing questions like this. Did it ever occur to this SKYGOD that nobody was holding a gun to his head forcing him to reply at all ? That he could have just cruised on and found an amusing thread about oral sex ("been discussed to death, do a fucking search about that too"). I'm not sorry folks, I am pissed off. Too many of these people are newbies - less than a hundred jumps and often registered at this high and holy website for less than six months. Sometimes for only a few weeks. They're NEW. They're just beginning to discover that jumping out of an airplane adds an incredible dimension of joy to their life. But that it's dangerous too, that they can be killed in a heartbeat if things go wrong enough. These people have LEGITIMATE questions ! And if all you can tell them is "do a search", then you are a SKYGOD who would show more integrity if you simply told them to fuck off - in so many words. If some newbie's honest question bothers your hyperinflated ego, then simply pass it by. But if you tell them to "do a search", you're just saying "Fuck you, I'm a SKYGOD and you bother me". I hate fucking Skygods. And NO, I'm not drunk either, just pissed off. No PMs either. I'm making this post in a public forum and I expect ALL replies to be posted in public. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mynamebedan 0 #2 February 1, 2009 this topic has been discussed to death... do a search Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #3 February 1, 2009 Quote this topic has been discussed to death... do a search Okay, touche'....(wise guy). Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
I3uller 0 #4 February 1, 2009 Incredibly well put for a rant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JustChuteMeNow 0 #5 February 1, 2009 I believe there is a sticky posted by Sangiro marked Forum rules and policies. I will post a little of it below since it appears that you disagree with the rationale. QuoteNew to Dropzone.com? Read this first. Use existing threads on your topic to continue a discussion rather than starting a new one. Posts that are repetitive in nature (i.e. Dead Horses) may be removed or locked at the discretion of the moderators. I absolutely agree that existing threads should be used first before starting a new one. I also believe that new users should learn sooner versus later how to use the search function. This isn't an effort to put down a new user but to help point them to the information that has been posted before in detail. How many threads should be started for the SAME question just to get the SAME answer? Put another way is it important for new users to have the courtesy to do a search first. Why would we have a search function on this site if it wasn't an effort to have people use it in order to avoid redundancy? I have never responded with "Do a search" but I continue to shake my head at people who can't seem to grasp the concept.Think of how stupid the average person is and realize that statistically half of them are stupider than that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #6 February 1, 2009 The problem isn't so much with encouraging people to use search, it's that people far to often come across as serious dicks and post useless one-liners like, "This is what Search is for." Come on. If all you are going to do is shit on some poor newbie for an etiquette violation, just walk away. Put yourself in the newbies shoes. Maybe they've never used an online forum. Maybe they missed the stickies. Maybe they don't know what search terms to use. Maybe, because they are new, it didn't occur to them that the question might be common. Be polite. How about doing the search yourself and linking to the useful results, or at least suggest useful terms. Just telling them "maybe you should have tried searching first" doesn't solve their problem, makes the whole community looks like tools, and you waste your precious time typing out a reply that doesn't help anybody. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan1 0 #7 February 1, 2009 I've been a lurker on here for a few months and I use the search function when I have a question about some stuff. However, if I do have a question that I haven't been able to find an answer to from searching I just don't ask on here and I save my questions until the next weekend when I can ask someone in person. And to be honest one of the reasons I have never posted on here is because I see some of the responses newbies get and it just completely turns me off from seeking advice online. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #8 February 1, 2009 Dear Tbrown. your rant is as narrow minded to me, as the "do a search" responses are to you. you know why ? Because you are bitching about a personal opinion (preference). The fact that this is a skydiving forum doesn't matter. It can be a AV forum, a MX forum, a BDSM forum - a person will get bitchslapped with "do a search" on ANY forum for asking questions that keep repeatedly getting discussed. I believe what we have for the most part is complacency and lazyness. Why do I think that ? Because I use the search function on daily basis on this, and other forums I frequent. And it works well. And the timers I dont get my answer, or the information seems outdated - I make the post, sometimes in the old thread, sometimes in an new one. And to this day nobody ever seemed to be a dick or told me to do a search. Imagine somebody standing in a store, right next to the price sign and screaming "Can I get some help here ? How much is this item ?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strop45 0 #9 February 1, 2009 +1 Agreed "do a search" is a waste of bandwidth. Its like saying I know the answer and if you need to ask you are an idiot. The only stupid question is that one that doesn't get asked. If you don't want to reply, just leave the keyboard alone. IMO search often isn't all that useful. Depending on what you search on you get very variable results. Rather than suggest "search" how about helping by linking to the threads you think the newbie should read, after all they are easy to find with search.The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumpdude 0 #10 February 1, 2009 Would it really hurt anyone who gives a crap about our sport to put his/her arrogance as a Skygod aside for a minute to politely answer the person's question and go on to politely offer advice that in the search function, there is a vast amount of info that would be helpful? I agree with you, by someone replying to a newbie in the way described here does nothing but makes ALL Skydivers AND the WHOLE SPORT look like we're a bunch of Arrogant assholes and does nothing to help the image and growth of our sport. I have personally been to a couple of different DZ's that routinely treat people in this manner and I find it completely unacceptable, so therefore, I believe TBrown is justified by starting this thread. Each and every one of us at some point in our life and to make our first jump, so why does a person with more experience seem to think they are Skygods and better than the "Newbie"? They were in that person's shoes at one time. These "Newbies" are the future of our sport and we as more experienced jumpers no matter if we have 100 or 10,000 jumps, are representatives of Skydiving and we should conduct ourselves as such, at least towards the new people coming in to our sport.Refuse to Lose!!! Failure is NOT an option! 1800skyrideripoff.com Nashvilleskydiving.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #11 February 1, 2009 Its not skygod, the internet is not the same as standing around the bonfire at the DZ. Its proper internet etiquette. It's proper to search forums or online databases before posting a question. That's been the etiquette since I got on the internet in 1994 with every online community I've been in besides skydiving. If someone is nice, they provide links with a reminder to conduct searches. Notice I provided a link to the question when I posted. This is especially true on hotly debated questions that typically result in basically name calling. In the past in regards to the Skyhook BillBooth himself has posted about his system and explained details and how it functions. So how is anyone other person supposed to post a better opinion then the inventor? How are you supposed to come up with the previous conversation that provides that knowledge? I guess a search huh? Thanks for calling me a skygod, with the shear amount of canopy coaching I give away to students and low time jumpers for free, I'm sure its true. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SStewart 13 #12 February 1, 2009 Right on Tom! My sentiments exactly! If you do a search under "search nazis" or the "search police" I think you will find that this subject has already been covered. I swear it is like some people read these forums just so they can find something that has already been discussed just so they can be a dick and tell someone else to go do a search. "How dare you, we talked about this 2 years ago you moron!" And it doesn't just happen to newbies. Sometimes a newbie will do it to the more experienced....I have seen the 100 jump wonder say "Do a search grandpa!" to the guy with thousands of jumps. Onward and Upward! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paulcrw 0 #13 February 1, 2009 Why the hell is this of-topic rant in the skydiving forum instead of the bonfire? Nothing pisses me off more than seeing non-skydiving related crap in the skydiving forums. Are you arrogant enough to think your opinion is SO important you don't want it to get lost in the bonfire where it belongs? Some people don't come here to post post post but to actually read about skydiving instead of this OT crap. Hope a mod moves it soon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kimemerson 7 #14 February 1, 2009 I'm not reading through every post because that would almost be a search in itself. Bit I think I agree with the OP. I would offer that there is a difference between suggesting to a questioner that there already exists a whole discussion dedicated to the question, letting the questioner know how & where to locate the thread, and telling the questioner to just do a search. Seldom will you find, as an example, a librarian suggesting you just go look for the book. You get courtesy and help all the while the librarian knowing the damn book has been right there for ages and that generations before have found it. Much is about attitude,approach and the awareness that newbies do not have the same resources or knowledge base the experienced do. Saying to "just do a search " is a bit dismissive and disregards the legitimate asking for help. And this dismissive retort doesn't offer help; it discourages further involvement. But suggesting a search, when coupled perhaps with an actual link, is beneficial in that it shows the questioner how to search, that a search gives up results, that there is a community of knowledge available and more. The flippant comment to "just do a search" is elitist and snobbish. And we know how we feel about that! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,262 #15 February 1, 2009 Telling people to do a search on hotly debated topics is fair enough (they'll get more information if they read through all the old threads as well as starting new ones), but there are one or two (especially one) posters who seem to exist solely to smack down newbies with rude, aggresive one liners with smilies at the end to emphasize just how bored and tired they are with their self appointed bloody repost police status. It's not nice, it's not productive and it's not welcoming. Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydude2000 3 #16 February 1, 2009 I think a lot of the time too, its because the newbie doesn't know what they're looking for. They might type in a search term for something, and get more than 50 hits on it. I've done it on various topics myself, and sometimes I find it can be like information overload, finding a needle in a haystack. Do you really expect that a newbie skydiver or first jumper would read through all 50 of those threads to get the answer they're looking for? But when someone takes time to answer the question with a well formulated, non-sarcastic reply, the newbie will at least feel somewhat validated. That their questions are important, which I think they are, no matter how many times they've been asked. I don't care who you are, that helps the image of our sport, and skydivers in general.PULL!! or DIE!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CarloC 0 #17 February 1, 2009 Funny! When people write "do a search" in a new topic on this forum, and you actually do a search about the subject, the older topics have someone saying "do search" also. Until you can find some good info it takes a while Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,079 #18 February 1, 2009 A search would indicate the following... Cypres vs. Vigil It gives them an answer and shows them that "search" is their friend.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #19 February 1, 2009 Ask your instructor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #20 February 1, 2009 Tell ya what I think is total bullshit, people not wanting to put forth a little bit of effort to get the answers they seek. Often times, people want everything spoon fed to them and delivered on a silver platter when the answers are already right there. I have done searches many times before and found fantastic dissertations already composed and preserved that are so well written that it is seemingly inconceivable that the salient points of the discussion could be improved upon. So before asking for the fifteenthbillon freaking time what gravity is, houzabout taking a little initiative and taking ten freaking minutes of your time and conduct a simple search? The answers being sought are likely well presented in past threads... Yeah there is a such thing as a stupid question - one that has already been answered time and time again and all it would take to find an answer is a few minutes of time...Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #21 February 1, 2009 Quote Its not skygod, the internet is not the same as standing around the bonfire at the DZ. Its proper internet etiquette. It's proper to search forums or online databases before posting a question. That's been the etiquette since I got on the internet in 1994 with every online community I've been in besides skydiving. If someone is nice, they provide links with a reminder to conduct searches. Agreed 100%. On any other forum I frequent you'll get told to search if you ask a basic or hot question, it's just proper netiquette. Here, people will tell you off for posting "do a search" or even "inventing" a word like netiquette (which has been a word since about 1994 I believe first reference I can google up now is from 1995). It involves (among a lot of other things) reading the stickies and doing a search. What's so damn hard about doing so? If you feel you have something new to add or your specific case is different or technology has changed or whatever of course you can ask your question. But bombarding forums with the same old questions is just simply not done in the rest of the world. Guess skydivers have less manners, feel the rules (unspoken or not) don't apply to them, or want to have everything spoon-fed to them? ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #22 February 1, 2009 LOL you beat me to it Although my reply was a bit nicer I think ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #23 February 1, 2009 QuoteDo you really expect that a newbie skydiver or first jumper would read through all 50 of those threads to get the answer they're looking for? I did. But if said newbie post something like "Hey i have this question, I tried the search but got lost a bit" they'd get a warm welcome for sure. Just shows they made some effort, makes a world of difference. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #24 February 1, 2009 Quote Ask your instructor. It's an An-2 ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #25 February 1, 2009 Quote Did it ever occur to this SKYGOD you are a SKYGOD I hate fucking Skygods then fuck someone else... Quote nobody was holding a gun to his head forcing him to reply this high and holy website question bothers your hyperinflated ego, then simply pass it by then why not follow your own advice, log off and leave us good for nothing self richegous "skygods" on this "high and holy" website to bask in our indignation? Quote one particularly obnoxious What I think is obnoxious is people bitching about the FREE service being provided here that offers a plethora of advice and good teaching, which also in turn offers the exact opposite. Well, that, and people not making searches... Quote I expect ALL replies to be posted in public If you want all your expectations to be met, then start your own fucking website where you can be the exalted king and tell everyone how to act and think in your monarchical view of life. Skygod my ass... Oh yeah - Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
