blacklabjumper 0 #51 December 7, 2010 We are currently seeking a new home. Jim has looked at a few airports in the area. Nothing solid as of yet. It is probably going to be a little while until we can find a place to call home. I believe you will see WP jumpers at Orange, Suffolk and Delmarva until we find a home.Rodriguez Brother #1626 Dudiest Skydiver #1962 DPH #-2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #52 December 7, 2010 I hope you can find a new home quickly. Glad to have you at Orange (my home) for the time being. Best wishes."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SStewart 13 #53 December 7, 2010 I'm sorry you misunderstood the point I was trying to make in my discussion with Strat. The Airport Authority has a goal to get the skydivers off the airport. But, since the airport receives federal funding they have to provide equal access. So, they are using the building code violations to evict them from the hangar knowing they can't possibly operate without a building. If the AA was not out to ruin the business and force them out then they would allow the DZ to get the building up to speed and renew the lease. Also, by using building code violations as a pretense to terminate the lease The DZ can not claim that equal access laws are being violated because it is merely a dispute over a building lease. The feds will certainly not get involved in that. It is interesting that there were no problems with the building or fire marshal inspections in the last ten years but now suddenly it must be complied with or get out. The whole thing sounds fishy to me and I believe the AA has found a loophole to kick the skydivers off the airport. I also do not see other airport users facing the same scrutiny. They may have perfectly legal, valid reasons to evict the club from the building but I still think it's bullshit. It is really just an excuse to close down another dropzone. If the airport wanted to be reasonable they would allow the repairs to be made so the building would be up to code. That would need to be done before new tenants could move in anyway. For some reason I think they already have someone else in mind.Onward and Upward! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liftedtitan 0 #54 December 7, 2010 also, why is it the tennants responsability to bring a building they dont even own up to code? I just dont get that. Moriuntur omnes, sed non omnes vixerunt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #55 December 7, 2010 QuoteI'm sorry you misunderstood the point I was trying to make in my discussion with Strat. Nope, I understood the whole thing. QuoteIf the AA was not out to ruin the business and force them out then they would allow the DZ to get the building up to speed and renew the lease Three questions: 1. Didn't they give the DZO a list and give him time to fix the problems the first time? 2. Didn't Jim tell the AA the problems (except the door) were fixed? 3. Were or were not all of the problems (but the door) fixed? QuoteIt is interesting that there were no problems with the building or fire marshal inspections in the last ten years but now suddenly it must be complied with or get out. New AA, new rules and procedures. When changes of command happen old focus items go away and new focus items become important."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VTmotoMike08 0 #56 December 8, 2010 >>1. Didn't they give the DZO a list and give him time to fix the problems the first time? Yes, I believe so. >>2. Didn't Jim tell the AA the problems (except the door) were fixed? Yes, I believe so. >>3. Were or were not all of the problems (but the door) fixed? Yes. But then they came thru and did another inspection while he was not there. Items that were previously OK'ed were then said to be inadequate. Same inspector. The eviction notice mentioned that even if the violations were fixed, the eviction would still stand. Not a single other building on airport property (and there are several other hangers) were inspected either time. Clearly, this is not really about fire code violations. I'd expect you might hear some more details about what the AA is doing to kick us out after Dec. 31st when it actually happens. For now, everyone is pretty much holding their cards fairly tight and focusing on the positive in hope that we can change their minds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CDRINF 1 #57 December 8, 2010 The fire code violations are just the leverage the airport authority is trying to use. Technically, they are not evicting us, just refusing to renew the lease. No one can really figure out what these old boys' agenda is. The new airport authority members are largely non-pilots. They must have a long term vision for the airport that does not include skydiving. One rumor is they have delusions of grandeur to become a regional jet hub; another is that they ultimately want to close the airport, re-zone and develop the land. Could be they have the typical whuffo aversion to skydiving and the liability they perceive it brings. Could be they just don't like the after hours presence of skydivers and the alcohol. They seemed a bit surprised when Jim Crouch so quickly said he would move elsewhere. Clearly they want the fuel sales. Good thing is that there apears to be a lot of support for the dropzone in the local community. There is an airport authority meeting tonight, so we shall see what develops. CDR Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3331 108 #58 December 8, 2010 What is going on now is a sleazy underhanded deal and it stinks too. A few are trying to take over this Federal and State Taxpayer funded airport as their own private airport at the expense of the local economy. If it were not for Skydiving this airport would have been closed 30 years ago.I Jumped with the guys who invented Skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blacklabjumper 0 #59 December 9, 2010 There was an AA meeting tonight. There was a good turnout with some of the local business owners coming to the meeting to support us. But it was not to be. It's official per the facebook page. We have to be out by the end of the year. Last I heard Jim is still looking for a suitable location. We will rise again somewhere. Just don't know where yet. I'm really gonna miss The Point. A sunset high pull canopy ride over the town and the rivers was a phenomenal view and a great experience. I will always have those memories. Blue Skies West PointRodriguez Brother #1626 Dudiest Skydiver #1962 DPH #-2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #60 December 9, 2010 QuoteThere was an AA meeting tonight. There was a good turnout with some of the local business owners coming to the meeting to support us. But it was not to be. It's official per the facebook page. We have to be out by the end of the year. Last I heard Jim is still looking for a suitable location. We will rise again somewhere. Just don't know where yet. I'm really gonna miss The Point. A sunset high pull canopy ride over the town and the rivers was a phenomenal view and a great experience. I will always have those memories. Blue Skies West Point Well whatever the hocus pocus the AA is doing, there is some humor in this. Convo goes like this: AA: Don't let the door hit you on the way out. JC: It won't because I'm taking it with me. .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skydive2 1 #61 December 9, 2010 So from what I can gather the airport still says you can skydive there, but can't use the hangar? Lance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #62 December 9, 2010 Quote So from what I can gather the airport still says you can skydive there, but can't use the hangar? You should do that every now & then too... just to spite them! - Bring in your own fuel truck with you when you do, and definitely DO NOT BUY / use any of "theirs"! Just another resultant, random thought.coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blacklabjumper 0 #63 December 10, 2010 Yes we can still skydive we just won't have a hangar. It is impossible to run that operation without a hangar.Rodriguez Brother #1626 Dudiest Skydiver #1962 DPH #-2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TriGirl 268 #64 December 10, 2010 QuoteWe are currently seeking a new home. Jim has looked at a few airports in the area. Nothing solid as of yet. It is probably going to be a little while until we can find a place to call home. I believe you will see WP jumpers at Orange, Suffolk and Delmarva until we find a home. Ever consider re-opening this place? http://www.dropzone.com/dropzone/Detailed/923.shtmlSee the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus Shut Up & Jump! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #65 December 10, 2010 QuoteQuoteWe are currently seeking a new home. Jim has looked at a few airports in the area. Nothing solid as of yet. It is probably going to be a little while until we can find a place to call home. I believe you will see WP jumpers at Orange, Suffolk and Delmarva until we find a home. Ever consider re-opening this place? http://www.dropzone.com/dropzone/Detailed/923.shtml It looks as though this former airstrip is now a drag strip... or at least no longer an airstrip... http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=38.4845694,-77.6127653&ie=UTF8&ll=38.48398,-77.613301&spn=0.010683,0.019076&t=h&z=16Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VTmotoMike08 0 #66 December 10, 2010 Too close to Orange. And too far from me (in Virginia Beach) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
booyah 0 #67 December 10, 2010 QuoteQuoteWe are currently seeking a new home. Jim has looked at a few airports in the area. Nothing solid as of yet. It is probably going to be a little while until we can find a place to call home. I believe you will see WP jumpers at Orange, Suffolk and Delmarva until we find a home. Ever consider re-opening this place? http://www.dropzone.com/dropzone/Detailed/923.shtml I thought Orange bought Hartwood but never ended up doing anything with it...could be wrong but I remember hearing something about that happening.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #68 December 10, 2010 Quote Too close to Orange. And too far from me (in Virginia Beach) Sheesh, Nobody listens to me... The AIRPORT that was at that location doesn't appear to be an airport any longer... So it's irrelevant if the former airstrip is too close to Orange... it doesn't exist... Edited to add: Here is what is going on at the Former Hartwood Dropzone... You don't have to read much... it's in the first paragraph of the second page... http://www.co.stafford.va.us/bos/mar0210/17.pdf Suffice to say this is no longer viable as an airport (or probably a dz for that matter... considering homeland security appears to be using it...)Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blacklabjumper 0 #69 December 11, 2010 Yes you are right. It was never an option to begin with. There are much better places but as far as I know the search continues.Rodriguez Brother #1626 Dudiest Skydiver #1962 DPH #-2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SStewart 13 #70 December 11, 2010 Quote Quote Too close to Orange. And too far from me (in Virginia Beach) Sheesh, Nobody listens to me... The AIRPORT that was at that location doesn't appear to be an airport any longer... Here is what is going on at the Former Hartwood Dropzone... You don't have to read much... it's in the first paragraph of the second page... http://www.co.stafford.va.us/bos/mar0210/17.pdf Suffice to say this is no longer viable as an airport (or probably a dz for that matter... considering homeland security appears to be using it...) That was very sad to read, I always wondered what happened to Hartwood. When I moved to the east coast in 2004 Hartwood was my first dropzone. It was perfect, they had an Otter and a 206 and the facilities were nice. Clubhouse, snack bar, huge hangar with indoor packing, bunkhouse, showers, professional loft with everything (sewing machines, packing tables etc.) It seemed too good to be true but the DZ was on it's last legs and seemed to be fading away. But, the people were great and we had fun. It never made sense to me me because it was such a good location and so close to Washington DC. It had so much potential. But, a few months after I started jumping there Pilot Dan crashed the twin-bo and that was the last nail on the coffin. We had a memorial for Dan and that was the last time I jumped there. I went to Orange but they would not let me jump because I had no AAD. (For some reason it was safer to jump a rented rig with an AAd than my own familiar stuff without one) Skydive the Point was awesome and they always treated me like family. Many of the Hartwood jumpers were there. So now two Virginia dropzones are gone. Hartwood forever it seems, and STP too. This has been going on for too long now! More small drop zones across the country have been closing down and no new ones have been opening to take their place. In my home state of Oregon we used to have 7 viable Dz's and now we are down to 2 maybe 3 on any given weekend. For the last two decades across the nation more dropzones are being closed or are going out of business than there are new ones coming in to take their place. The large commercial centers can't absorb everyone without the smaller centers sending them business during seasonal changes. We are going extinct......Onward and Upward! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #71 December 11, 2010 Y'all should come to the St Mary's airport (2W6) They used to have a dropzone there and everything... Of course I say this in jest as if I understand the manner in which the previous dz departed I don't think they'd want a dz back... do keep us posted regarding the relocation... as although we didn't make it out there all to often this year (the move and team training got in the way)... we should be out more next year... and I agree it is sad to see a former dz/airport completely disappear... Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #72 December 11, 2010 Well, I'm sorry it came to this. I still think you should approach the local Chamber of Commerce, even if only to let them know what the ripple effect will be on the local business community. The local media obviously didn't help much. I wonder if anyone noticed that the newspaper misspelled "hangar" in its big, bold headline. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elightle 8 #73 December 13, 2010 QuoteIf it were not for Skydiving this airport would have been closed 30 years ago. I hear ya, Steve. West Point was my home DZ when I was stationed in Norfolk and Arlington, VA. I learned RW with Carol Clay there in the mid-70s and had a lot of good times in the original clubhouse. Also, West Point is where the existing state record was set - an 88-way. I'm glad I got to be a part of that and party with Carol one more time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3331 108 #74 December 20, 2010 http://www.dailypress.com/news/gloucester-county/dp-nws-gloucester-airport-manager-20101214,0,896714.storyI Jumped with the guys who invented Skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #75 December 20, 2010 QuoteWest Point Skydiving Adventure and Skydive the Point, a skydiving club that operates out of the airport, have generated $35,000 in profits to the airport this year, according to an analysis by a member of Skydive the Point. Was that counting the fuel sales?Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
